Haven't played since 1st Ed. ... Can I be... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Haven't played since 1st Ed. ... Can I be... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheVillageofHommlet
08-08-04, 03:45 PM anything I want, really?
I could be a faerie illusionist? Do they still have illusionists?
How about a gnome druid?

I don't have the Player's Handbook yet, but, can you really be anything now?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a game in Red Deer...
kedi
08-08-04, 04:05 PM Well yes you can. Not sure what you mean by faerie but you can choose pixie or another fey as a PC and yes you can be a wizard specialized in illusion school aka illusionist and yes you can be a gnome druid.

You can be almost anything. There's a new system in 3.5 that allows you to play any monster described in MM.
Dea ex Machina
08-08-04, 04:20 PM Hun, go HERE (http://geocities.com/sovelior/srd/home.html) and you can read up on the current rules. Contact someone over AIM/ICQ/MSN/YIM and they can help you understand all the info you don't get after reading that site.

But yes, you can play just about any race. Yet we have something called Level Adjustment and Effective Charecter Level. A level 5 Human Cleric has an Effective Charecter Level of 5. Yet a level 1 Human Half-Celestial Fighter also has an Effective Charecter Level of 5 since he has a Leval Adjustment of +4. So playing monster races or adding a templet will usualy have a Level Adjustment attatched to it.
aka Jimmy
08-08-04, 05:01 PM Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet
anything I want, really?
I could be a faerie illusionist? Do they still have illusionists?
How about a gnome druid?

I don't have the Player's Handbook yet, but, can you really be anything now?

Short answer: Yes.
The more exotic possibilities (eg: a pixie) are not covered in the Player's Handbook. With the Dungeon Master's Guide and the Monster Manual (yes, those three books still constitute the "core" of the game) you should have all you need for just about anything. For really weird characters you can look to the book "Savage Species".

Also note that, from someone coming from 1st edition, the numbers in 3rd ed will look very "off". You first reaction will probably be that everything is "too powerful" now. This is a common misunderstanding. Just about everything in the game works on a very different scale in 3rd edition. Stats that would be grossly overpowered in 1st are less so in 3rd, because the numbers mean different things. My best advice would be to pick up the 3.5 Players Handbook and try and look at it with fresh eyes. Don't even think about the old system until you get a feel for the new one. And don't judge the new game by the standards of the old. It is qutie a different beast altogether.
Elendur
08-08-04, 05:15 PM Any monster in the Monster Manual that is basically humanoid and isn't more powerful than a 20th character is given a level adjustment value. For example a pixie has a level adjustment of +4, and 1HD, so its effective character level is 5. You can then add class levels to that, such as illusionist. Any races outside of the standard player's handbook are subject to DM approval.
ImmortalBlueMage
08-08-04, 11:54 PM I believe the nature of his question was whether there were any race/class combinations that were barred. I've been told that in other RPGs and in older DnD versions, certain races were barred from taking certain class levels.

Anyway, back to the question, no, you can be whatever you want. Gnome Druid or Fey Illusionist, as you pointed out, or Half-Orc Wizard, Elf Barbarian, Halfling Monk, Gnoll Paladin (although that one would need some special back story to explain it), Ogre Sorcerer, or pretty much anything else your heart desires.
Glak
08-09-04, 12:01 AM Short answer: NO. However you can combine any of the races with any of the classes in the PHB. You can be a Gnomish Druid, or a Halfling Paladin. You cannot be a monster any more than you could in 1e. However, many DMs will allow you limited access to monsters. It is 100% up to the DM. In general better DMs allow you access to fewer monsters, but this is just a generalization.
Ao
08-09-04, 12:14 AM Originally posted by Glak
Short answer: NO. However you can combine any of the races with any of the classes in the PHB. You can be a Gnomish Druid, or a Halfling Paladin. You cannot be a monster any more than you could in 1e. However, many DMs will allow you limited access to monsters. It is 100% up to the DM. In general better DMs allow you access to fewer monsters, but this is just a generalization.

What Glak said! It is a DM's option to allow players to use monsters as characters in 3.0, 3.5. Just like it is an option for a DM to disallow certain races to be certain classes (pg 171 DM's Guide).
Serow Darkstar
08-09-04, 12:21 AM You can be anything the DM allows. It is NOT a sign of a better DM to allow more limited things - It IS the sign of a good DM if they can HANDLE allowing more diverse things. A good DM could say "Pick any race with a Level adjustment of XX or less" and handle it just fine, no matter what you picked. This is not to say you'll have an easy time playing a Storm Giant Wizard, or whatever... There will be challenges to non-base characters that there aren't to the base races.

As far as from a 1st Edition standpoint... The most shocking thing to me, when switching systems, was the Dwarven Wizard. It amazed me, and still does a bit... But, any race/class combination is valid, by the rules.
TheVillageofHommlet
08-09-04, 12:34 AM Originally posted by Dea ex Machina
Hun, go HERE (http://geocities.com/sovelior/srd/home.html) and you can read up on the current rules. Contact someone over AIM/ICQ/MSN/YIM and they can help you understand all the info you don't get after reading that site.

But yes, you can play just about any race. Yet we have something called Level Adjustment and Effective Charecter Level. A level 5 Human Cleric has an Effective Charecter Level of 5. Yet a level 1 Human Half-Celestial Fighter also has an Effective Charecter Level of 5 since he has a Leval Adjustment of +4. So playing monster races or adding a templet will usualy have a Level Adjustment attatched to it.

Thanks! That's EXACTLY what I needed. Outstanding.

Now, I just need to get a group... here, in Red Deer, the gaming void that is my city...
TheVillageofHommlet
08-09-04, 12:37 AM Originally posted by Serow Darkstar
You can be anything the DM allows. It is NOT a sign of a better DM to allow more limited things - It IS the sign of a good DM if they can HANDLE allowing more diverse things. A good DM could say "Pick any race with a Level adjustment of XX or less" and handle it just fine, no matter what you picked. This is not to say you'll have an easy time playing a Storm Giant Wizard, or whatever... There will be challenges to non-base characters that there aren't to the base races.

As far as from a 1st Edition standpoint... The most shocking thing to me, when switching systems, was the Dwarven Wizard. It amazed me, and still does a bit... But, any race/class combination is valid, by the rules.

Agreed on the better DM that can handle things. It was that way in 1e too.

Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D
Serow Darkstar
08-09-04, 12:45 AM I agree... It's odd, seeing races and classes that didn't used to be possible, that now are... Elven Barbarians throw me off a bit, as do some other exotic and strange combinations. The unified Experience system makes me happy, though, as Wizards and Fighters and everything else level at the same times...
kedi
08-09-04, 03:03 AM Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet
Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D :rofl:
CzarGarrett
08-09-04, 08:26 AM And like a Gnomish Paladin in any better.
SnowbearK
08-10-04, 02:02 AM No, it's the Halfling 5th level Paladin/4th level Ranger/1st level Rogue on a riding dog with a lance, shield, and plate armor that you have to watch out for...

:angel:
ninjarabbit
08-10-04, 09:42 AM Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet
Agreed on the better DM that can handle things. It was that way in 1e too.

Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D

What's even more wrong/scary is that dwarves statistically make pretty good wizards with their con bonus and their +2 to all saves vs. magic.
Krelios
08-10-04, 10:44 AM Originally posted by Serow Darkstar
You can be anything the DM allows. It is NOT a sign of a better DM to allow more limited things - It IS the sign of a good DM if they can HANDLE allowing more diverse things. A good DM could say "Pick any race with a Level adjustment of XX or less" and handle it just fine, no matter what you picked. This is not to say you'll have an easy time playing a Storm Giant Wizard, or whatever... There will be challenges to non-base characters that there aren't to the base races.

As far as from a 1st Edition standpoint... The most shocking thing to me, when switching systems, was the Dwarven Wizard. It amazed me, and still does a bit... But, any race/class combination is valid, by the rules. It is NOT the sign of a good DM if they allow their players to play whatever they want at the cost of the story. It IS the sign of a good DM if they can develop such an involved and engrossing world that playing the standard races is much more rewarding than being able to be the biggest combat monster.

I've always hated it when people say "DMs who won't let me play Half-Troll-Half-Dragon-Fiendish-Tauric-Ooze-Eagle-Goblins are too restrictive" no matter how they try to sugar coat it...
SnowbearK
08-10-04, 11:52 PM It is neither the sign of a good or bad DM to allow anything or restrict races.

The only sign of a good DM is that everyone has a good time and comes back to the table repeatedly.
Endarire
08-11-04, 12:00 AM Since you're seeking a game, check for games online or in your area (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=347). I like OpenRPG (http://www.openrpg.com/index.php?page=install) for this since it's free, fairly stable, and cross-platform. You can find other useful links here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109923) and many of the sames ones here as well (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=229976).

-EE
starfire311
08-11-04, 09:10 AM Originally posted by Krelios
It is NOT the sign of a good DM if they allow their players to play whatever they want at the cost of the story. It IS the sign of a good DM if they can develop such an involved and engrossing world that playing the standard races is much more rewarding than being able to be the biggest combat monster.

I've always hated it when people say "DMs who won't let me play Half-Troll-Half-Dragon-Fiendish-Tauric-Ooze-Eagle-Goblins are too restrictive" no matter how they try to sugar coat it...

This has nothign to do with being a good or bad DM... I generally allow players to play whatever they like as long as it is possible in my world....
right now my group consists of 7 players(to do this I allow people to multiclass with racial classes and normal classes but their levels in normal classes can never exceed their level s in racial classes untill they finish their racial class)

my group is
2nd level Maug/1st level fighter
2nd level Human Vampire/1st level fighter
Human 2nd level Ranger/1st level druid
3rd level Eladrin
Dragon Blooded Human 3rd level Paladin
Human 3rd level Wizard
and the craziest fo them(I mean I should probably not allowed it but the player is really enjoying it and it no one else in the group has minded at all)
Doppleganger blooded/Yuan Ti Blooded/Half-Elf 1st level Half-Elf Paragon/2nd level Rogue

All I can say is that everyone in the group is really enjoying the game and most of the players have taken ranks in disguise to hide the race, except the maug everyone knows what he is. So if this makes me a bad DM, I don't want to be good.
meabolex
08-11-04, 12:02 PM A level 1 pixie illusionist without Otto's Irresistable Dance would be a level 5 character. If you want to play a character with around 5-6 HP at level 5 (when PH core race wizards get fireball), go right ahead (:
Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet
Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D
Yeah, that does seem a little odd, huh? (:
Kerrexl
08-11-04, 01:02 PM Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet
Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D
Which is why I like the comment in Hero builders guide...

"The dwarven elder usually treat interest in matters arcane as a form of mental illness, and no family would volunteer a child as a wizard's apprentice."
and later on:
"Loss of the +2 Saving throw bonus against spells is just the beginning of the drawbacks for the dwarven wizards. The social costs are high as well."

so ninjarabbit, they do loose their +2 bonus... but still it should be banned... it is like an elven Necromancer..
Bad WotC, Bad WotC :)
Aliquid
08-11-04, 01:48 PM Originally posted by starfire311
This has nothign to do with being a good or bad DM... I generally allow players to play whatever they like as long as it is possible in my world....

Ok first point "As long as it is possible in my world" is a very important point that I agree with... that players will still argue about. If you have developed a fantasy world where Dwarven Wizards do not exist, and a player wants to play one.... some players still whine, and come up with a big argument to justify their character. The problem I see with this is the player having a character concept fixed in his/her head without even knowing what the DM's world is like. They don't want to be "part of the story", they don't want to be "part of the world", they don't care about fitting in, they just want to be a Dwarven Wizard and that's that.

Second point, what about alignments? If I DM, I enforce a certain level of alignment conpatability between players. If you have a party with a LG Paladin, a NE Rogue and a CN Cleric, then you are going to have a problem. If the players actually role play their characters properly, the group should split up by the end of the first adventure. So in this case I would say that you can't be "whatever you want", your character has to mesh with the rest of the group.

Also, what if the DM has developed a game world where the average villager is terrified of anything monsterous. Add to this the DM's plotline which contains a large amount of in town role playing and use of social skills (deplomacy, bluff, etc). Somehow I don't think the DM should allow the party to be an Orc Wizard, a Half-Troll Cleric, a 1/2 goblin 1/2 fiend rogue and an Undead Barbarian.

Too many players are self absorbed with their character concept and are not interested in the cooperative team aspect of the game. If they are not interested in developing a character that works with the group and works with the DM's world. Why are they playing with other people? They might as well stick with computer RPGs.
starfire311
08-11-04, 02:24 PM Originally posted by Aliquid

Second point, what about alignments? If I DM, I enforce a certain level of alignment conpatability between players. If you have a party with a LG Paladin, a NE Rogue and a CN Cleric, then you are going to have a problem. If the players actually role play their characters properly, the group should split up by the end of the first adventure. So in this case I would say that you can't be "whatever you want", your character has to mesh with the rest of the group.

I generally limit characters to non-evil alignments... helps keep the group together

Also, what if the DM has developed a game world where the average villager is terrified of anything monsterous. Add to this the DM's plotline which contains a large amount of in town role playing and use of social skills (deplomacy, bluff, etc). Somehow I don't think the DM should allow the party to be an Orc Wizard, a Half-Troll Cleric, a 1/2 goblin 1/2 fiend rogue and an Undead Barbarian.

here is where my games tend to differ... I dont have plotlines that the group must adhere to. If was DMing the afforementioned group there would be very little town roleplaying involved.... the group would want to avoid towns like the plague... even at high levels and even if they get a reputation for being good there will be many peopel that will not be able to set aside prejudices.

In my games I throw out a bunch of adventure hooks... if they choose to follow one then that makes my job easy... most likely they will go off and do what ever the feel like and I am left trying to plan one session ahead of the group... so in my games there tend to be many background stories shaping up but only a few that the party actually gets involved in.

I generally let people play whatever they want they would have to come up with something unbelievable to get me to disallow it.

Oh well good luck.... BTW I have limited races to core in previous campaigns so it is not unheard of for me.... and as a player you must always try to build your character using the rules that the DM has laid out for you.
meabolex
08-11-04, 02:28 PM Originally posted by Kerrexl
"Loss of the +2 Saving throw bonus against spells is just the beginning of the drawbacks for the dwarven wizards. The social costs are high as well."
Which isn't core 3.5. I could see it as a house rule, however.
Kerrexl
08-11-04, 02:33 PM Originally posted by meabolex
Which isn't core 3.5. I could see it as a house rule, however. Well it is not core 3.0 either... :) but as some sais, if the 3.0 rules have not been writtenly overriden in 3.5 they still apply... ;) - hehe but no... think it is a "typo" in Hero builders Guide
Aliquid
08-11-04, 02:40 PM Originally posted by starfire311
All I can say is that everyone in the group is really enjoying the game and most of the players have taken ranks in disguise to hide the race, except the maug everyone knows what he is. So if this makes me a bad DM, I don't want to be good.

Well as SnowbearK mentioned, if your players are having fun, then you most certainly are a good DM :)

I have had DMs that give the players a fair bit of latitude as to what kind of characters they can play... and I had fun.

I have actually played with a DM that pre-made everyone's characters and character history for them.... and I had fun.

Its all in how the DM runs the game.

To be honest, in my 20 years of gaming, I have actually never had a DM where I didn't like his style. The only times I have been frustrated or annoyed with a game have been a result of the behaviour of specific players.
TheVillageofHommlet
08-11-04, 08:47 PM Originally posted by Endarire
Since you're seeking a game, check for games online or in your area (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=347). I like OpenRPG (http://www.openrpg.com/index.php?page=install) for this since it's free, fairly stable, and cross-platform. You can find other useful links here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109923) and many of the sames ones here as well (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=229976).

-EE

Thanks! Geez, it even works on a Mac, who knew?

Still looking for gamers in Red Deer...

(on a Mac OS X)
Soel Griffin
08-12-04, 03:51 AM Originally posted by Kerrexl

"Loss of the +2 Saving throw bonus against spells is just the beginning of the drawbacks for the dwarven wizards. The social costs are high as well." so ninjarabbit, they do loose their +2 bonus... but still it should be banned... it is like an elven Necromancer..
Bad WotC, Bad WotC :)

There were dwarven wizards mentioned in a Planescape (2e) product, but I can't remember which one right now.
Endarire
08-12-04, 04:50 AM I recommend the Blackstar OpenRPG server for its stability.

-EE

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheVillageofHommlet 08-08-04, 03:45 PM	anything I want, really? I could be a faerie illusionist? Do they still have illusionists? How about a gnome druid? I don't have the Player's Handbook yet, but, can you really be anything now? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a game in Red Deer...
kedi 08-08-04, 04:05 PM	Well yes you can. Not sure what you mean by faerie but you can choose pixie or another fey as a PC and yes you can be a wizard specialized in illusion school aka illusionist and yes you can be a gnome druid. You can be almost anything. There's a new system in 3.5 that allows you to play any monster described in MM.
Dea ex Machina 08-08-04, 04:20 PM	Hun, go HERE (http://geocities.com/sovelior/srd/home.html) and you can read up on the current rules. Contact someone over AIM/ICQ/MSN/YIM and they can help you understand all the info you don't get after reading that site. But yes, you can play just about any race. Yet we have something called Level Adjustment and Effective Charecter Level. A level 5 Human Cleric has an Effective Charecter Level of 5. Yet a level 1 Human Half-Celestial Fighter also has an Effective Charecter Level of 5 since he has a Leval Adjustment of +4. So playing monster races or adding a templet will usualy have a Level Adjustment attatched to it.
aka Jimmy 08-08-04, 05:01 PM	Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet anything I want, really? I could be a faerie illusionist? Do they still have illusionists? How about a gnome druid? I don't have the Player's Handbook yet, but, can you really be anything now? Short answer: Yes. The more exotic possibilities (eg: a pixie) are not covered in the Player's Handbook. With the Dungeon Master's Guide and the Monster Manual (yes, those three books still constitute the "core" of the game) you should have all you need for just about anything. For really weird characters you can look to the book "Savage Species". Also note that, from someone coming from 1st edition, the numbers in 3rd ed will look very "off". You first reaction will probably be that everything is "too powerful" now. This is a common misunderstanding. Just about everything in the game works on a very different scale in 3rd edition. Stats that would be grossly overpowered in 1st are less so in 3rd, because the numbers mean different things. My best advice would be to pick up the 3.5 Players Handbook and try and look at it with fresh eyes. Don't even think about the old system until you get a feel for the new one. And don't judge the new game by the standards of the old. It is qutie a different beast altogether.
Elendur 08-08-04, 05:15 PM	Any monster in the Monster Manual that is basically humanoid and isn't more powerful than a 20th character is given a level adjustment value. For example a pixie has a level adjustment of +4, and 1HD, so its effective character level is 5. You can then add class levels to that, such as illusionist. Any races outside of the standard player's handbook are subject to DM approval.
ImmortalBlueMage 08-08-04, 11:54 PM	I believe the nature of his question was whether there were any race/class combinations that were barred. I've been told that in other RPGs and in older DnD versions, certain races were barred from taking certain class levels. Anyway, back to the question, no, you can be whatever you want. Gnome Druid or Fey Illusionist, as you pointed out, or Half-Orc Wizard, Elf Barbarian, Halfling Monk, Gnoll Paladin (although that one would need some special back story to explain it), Ogre Sorcerer, or pretty much anything else your heart desires.
Glak 08-09-04, 12:01 AM	Short answer: NO. However you can combine any of the races with any of the classes in the PHB. You can be a Gnomish Druid, or a Halfling Paladin. You cannot be a monster any more than you could in 1e. However, many DMs will allow you limited access to monsters. It is 100% up to the DM. In general better DMs allow you access to fewer monsters, but this is just a generalization.
Ao 08-09-04, 12:14 AM	Originally posted by Glak Short answer: NO. However you can combine any of the races with any of the classes in the PHB. You can be a Gnomish Druid, or a Halfling Paladin. You cannot be a monster any more than you could in 1e. However, many DMs will allow you limited access to monsters. It is 100% up to the DM. In general better DMs allow you access to fewer monsters, but this is just a generalization. What Glak said! It is a DM's option to allow players to use monsters as characters in 3.0, 3.5. Just like it is an option for a DM to disallow certain races to be certain classes (pg 171 DM's Guide).
Serow Darkstar 08-09-04, 12:21 AM	You can be anything the DM allows. It is NOT a sign of a better DM to allow more limited things - It IS the sign of a good DM if they can HANDLE allowing more diverse things. A good DM could say "Pick any race with a Level adjustment of XX or less" and handle it just fine, no matter what you picked. This is not to say you'll have an easy time playing a Storm Giant Wizard, or whatever... There will be challenges to non-base characters that there aren't to the base races. As far as from a 1st Edition standpoint... The most shocking thing to me, when switching systems, was the Dwarven Wizard. It amazed me, and still does a bit... But, any race/class combination is valid, by the rules.
TheVillageofHommlet 08-09-04, 12:34 AM	Originally posted by Dea ex Machina Hun, go HERE (http://geocities.com/sovelior/srd/home.html) and you can read up on the current rules. Contact someone over AIM/ICQ/MSN/YIM and they can help you understand all the info you don't get after reading that site. But yes, you can play just about any race. Yet we have something called Level Adjustment and Effective Charecter Level. A level 5 Human Cleric has an Effective Charecter Level of 5. Yet a level 1 Human Half-Celestial Fighter also has an Effective Charecter Level of 5 since he has a Leval Adjustment of +4. So playing monster races or adding a templet will usualy have a Level Adjustment attatched to it. Thanks! That's EXACTLY what I needed. Outstanding. Now, I just need to get a group... here, in Red Deer, the gaming void that is my city...
TheVillageofHommlet 08-09-04, 12:37 AM	Originally posted by Serow Darkstar You can be anything the DM allows. It is NOT a sign of a better DM to allow more limited things - It IS the sign of a good DM if they can HANDLE allowing more diverse things. A good DM could say "Pick any race with a Level adjustment of XX or less" and handle it just fine, no matter what you picked. This is not to say you'll have an easy time playing a Storm Giant Wizard, or whatever... There will be challenges to non-base characters that there aren't to the base races. As far as from a 1st Edition standpoint... The most shocking thing to me, when switching systems, was the Dwarven Wizard. It amazed me, and still does a bit... But, any race/class combination is valid, by the rules. Agreed on the better DM that can handle things. It was that way in 1e too. Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D
Serow Darkstar 08-09-04, 12:45 AM	I agree... It's odd, seeing races and classes that didn't used to be possible, that now are... Elven Barbarians throw me off a bit, as do some other exotic and strange combinations. The unified Experience system makes me happy, though, as Wizards and Fighters and everything else level at the same times...
kedi 08-09-04, 03:03 AM	Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D :rofl:
CzarGarrett 08-09-04, 08:26 AM	And like a Gnomish Paladin in any better.
SnowbearK 08-10-04, 02:02 AM	No, it's the Halfling 5th level Paladin/4th level Ranger/1st level Rogue on a riding dog with a lance, shield, and plate armor that you have to watch out for... :angel:
ninjarabbit 08-10-04, 09:42 AM	Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet Agreed on the better DM that can handle things. It was that way in 1e too. Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D What's even more wrong/scary is that dwarves statistically make pretty good wizards with their con bonus and their +2 to all saves vs. magic.
Krelios 08-10-04, 10:44 AM	Originally posted by Serow Darkstar You can be anything the DM allows. It is NOT a sign of a better DM to allow more limited things - It IS the sign of a good DM if they can HANDLE allowing more diverse things. A good DM could say "Pick any race with a Level adjustment of XX or less" and handle it just fine, no matter what you picked. This is not to say you'll have an easy time playing a Storm Giant Wizard, or whatever... There will be challenges to non-base characters that there aren't to the base races. As far as from a 1st Edition standpoint... The most shocking thing to me, when switching systems, was the Dwarven Wizard. It amazed me, and still does a bit... But, any race/class combination is valid, by the rules. It is NOT the sign of a good DM if they allow their players to play whatever they want at the cost of the story. It IS the sign of a good DM if they can develop such an involved and engrossing world that playing the standard races is much more rewarding than being able to be the biggest combat monster. I've always hated it when people say "DMs who won't let me play Half-Troll-Half-Dragon-Fiendish-Tauric-Ooze-Eagle-Goblins are too restrictive" no matter how they try to sugar coat it...
SnowbearK 08-10-04, 11:52 PM	It is neither the sign of a good or bad DM to allow anything or restrict races. The only sign of a good DM is that everyone has a good time and comes back to the table repeatedly.
Endarire 08-11-04, 12:00 AM	Since you're seeking a game, check for games online or in your area (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=347). I like OpenRPG (http://www.openrpg.com/index.php?page=install) for this since it's free, fairly stable, and cross-platform. You can find other useful links here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109923) and many of the sames ones here as well (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=229976). -EE
starfire311 08-11-04, 09:10 AM	Originally posted by Krelios It is NOT the sign of a good DM if they allow their players to play whatever they want at the cost of the story. It IS the sign of a good DM if they can develop such an involved and engrossing world that playing the standard races is much more rewarding than being able to be the biggest combat monster. I've always hated it when people say "DMs who won't let me play Half-Troll-Half-Dragon-Fiendish-Tauric-Ooze-Eagle-Goblins are too restrictive" no matter how they try to sugar coat it... This has nothign to do with being a good or bad DM... I generally allow players to play whatever they like as long as it is possible in my world.... right now my group consists of 7 players(to do this I allow people to multiclass with racial classes and normal classes but their levels in normal classes can never exceed their level s in racial classes untill they finish their racial class) my group is 2nd level Maug/1st level fighter 2nd level Human Vampire/1st level fighter Human 2nd level Ranger/1st level druid 3rd level Eladrin Dragon Blooded Human 3rd level Paladin Human 3rd level Wizard and the craziest fo them(I mean I should probably not allowed it but the player is really enjoying it and it no one else in the group has minded at all) Doppleganger blooded/Yuan Ti Blooded/Half-Elf 1st level Half-Elf Paragon/2nd level Rogue All I can say is that everyone in the group is really enjoying the game and most of the players have taken ranks in disguise to hide the race, except the maug everyone knows what he is. So if this makes me a bad DM, I don't want to be good.
meabolex 08-11-04, 12:02 PM	A level 1 pixie illusionist without Otto's Irresistable Dance would be a level 5 character. If you want to play a character with around 5-6 HP at level 5 (when PH core race wizards get fireball), go right ahead (: Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D Yeah, that does seem a little odd, huh? (:
Kerrexl 08-11-04, 01:02 PM	Originally posted by TheVillageofHommlet Dwarven Wizards? Now, that's just WRONG! :D Which is why I like the comment in Hero builders guide... "The dwarven elder usually treat interest in matters arcane as a form of mental illness, and no family would volunteer a child as a wizard's apprentice." and later on: "Loss of the +2 Saving throw bonus against spells is just the beginning of the drawbacks for the dwarven wizards. The social costs are high as well." so ninjarabbit, they do loose their +2 bonus... but still it should be banned... it is like an elven Necromancer.. Bad WotC, Bad WotC :)
Aliquid 08-11-04, 01:48 PM	Originally posted by starfire311 This has nothign to do with being a good or bad DM... I generally allow players to play whatever they like as long as it is possible in my world.... Ok first point "As long as it is possible in my world" is a very important point that I agree with... that players will still argue about. If you have developed a fantasy world where Dwarven Wizards do not exist, and a player wants to play one.... some players still whine, and come up with a big argument to justify their character. The problem I see with this is the player having a character concept fixed in his/her head without even knowing what the DM's world is like. They don't want to be "part of the story", they don't want to be "part of the world", they don't care about fitting in, they just want to be a Dwarven Wizard and that's that. Second point, what about alignments? If I DM, I enforce a certain level of alignment conpatability between players. If you have a party with a LG Paladin, a NE Rogue and a CN Cleric, then you are going to have a problem. If the players actually role play their characters properly, the group should split up by the end of the first adventure. So in this case I would say that you can't be "whatever you want", your character has to mesh with the rest of the group. Also, what if the DM has developed a game world where the average villager is terrified of anything monsterous. Add to this the DM's plotline which contains a large amount of in town role playing and use of social skills (deplomacy, bluff, etc). Somehow I don't think the DM should allow the party to be an Orc Wizard, a Half-Troll Cleric, a 1/2 goblin 1/2 fiend rogue and an Undead Barbarian. Too many players are self absorbed with their character concept and are not interested in the cooperative team aspect of the game. If they are not interested in developing a character that works with the group and works with the DM's world. Why are they playing with other people? They might as well stick with computer RPGs.
starfire311 08-11-04, 02:24 PM	Originally posted by Aliquid Second point, what about alignments? If I DM, I enforce a certain level of alignment conpatability between players. If you have a party with a LG Paladin, a NE Rogue and a CN Cleric, then you are going to have a problem. If the players actually role play their characters properly, the group should split up by the end of the first adventure. So in this case I would say that you can't be "whatever you want", your character has to mesh with the rest of the group. I generally limit characters to non-evil alignments... helps keep the group together Also, what if the DM has developed a game world where the average villager is terrified of anything monsterous. Add to this the DM's plotline which contains a large amount of in town role playing and use of social skills (deplomacy, bluff, etc). Somehow I don't think the DM should allow the party to be an Orc Wizard, a Half-Troll Cleric, a 1/2 goblin 1/2 fiend rogue and an Undead Barbarian. here is where my games tend to differ... I dont have plotlines that the group must adhere to. If was DMing the afforementioned group there would be very little town roleplaying involved.... the group would want to avoid towns like the plague... even at high levels and even if they get a reputation for being good there will be many peopel that will not be able to set aside prejudices. In my games I throw out a bunch of adventure hooks... if they choose to follow one then that makes my job easy... most likely they will go off and do what ever the feel like and I am left trying to plan one session ahead of the group... so in my games there tend to be many background stories shaping up but only a few that the party actually gets involved in. I generally let people play whatever they want they would have to come up with something unbelievable to get me to disallow it. Oh well good luck.... BTW I have limited races to core in previous campaigns so it is not unheard of for me.... and as a player you must always try to build your character using the rules that the DM has laid out for you.
meabolex 08-11-04, 02:28 PM	Originally posted by Kerrexl "Loss of the +2 Saving throw bonus against spells is just the beginning of the drawbacks for the dwarven wizards. The social costs are high as well." Which isn't core 3.5. I could see it as a house rule, however.
Kerrexl 08-11-04, 02:33 PM	Originally posted by meabolex Which isn't core 3.5. I could see it as a house rule, however. Well it is not core 3.0 either... :) but as some sais, if the 3.0 rules have not been writtenly overriden in 3.5 they still apply... ;) - hehe but no... think it is a "typo" in Hero builders Guide
Aliquid 08-11-04, 02:40 PM	Originally posted by starfire311 All I can say is that everyone in the group is really enjoying the game and most of the players have taken ranks in disguise to hide the race, except the maug everyone knows what he is. So if this makes me a bad DM, I don't want to be good. Well as SnowbearK mentioned, if your players are having fun, then you most certainly are a good DM :) I have had DMs that give the players a fair bit of latitude as to what kind of characters they can play... and I had fun. I have actually played with a DM that pre-made everyone's characters and character history for them.... and I had fun. Its all in how the DM runs the game. To be honest, in my 20 years of gaming, I have actually never had a DM where I didn't like his style. The only times I have been frustrated or annoyed with a game have been a result of the behaviour of specific players.
TheVillageofHommlet 08-11-04, 08:47 PM	Originally posted by Endarire Since you're seeking a game, check for games online or in your area (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=347). I like OpenRPG (http://www.openrpg.com/index.php?page=install) for this since it's free, fairly stable, and cross-platform. You can find other useful links here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109923) and many of the sames ones here as well (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=229976). -EE Thanks! Geez, it even works on a Mac, who knew? Still looking for gamers in Red Deer... (on a Mac OS X)
Soel Griffin 08-12-04, 03:51 AM	Originally posted by Kerrexl "Loss of the +2 Saving throw bonus against spells is just the beginning of the drawbacks for the dwarven wizards. The social costs are high as well." so ninjarabbit, they do loose their +2 bonus... but still it should be banned... it is like an elven Necromancer.. Bad WotC, Bad WotC :) There were dwarven wizards mentioned in a Planescape (2e) product, but I can't remember which one right now.
Endarire 08-12-04, 04:50 AM	I recommend the Blackstar OpenRPG server for its stability. -EE