Having trouble saving the world. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Having trouble saving the world. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FallenWyvern
05-15-06, 03:56 PM Our recent game had our party fighting a bunch of Lycanthropes. In our party, I prefer to roleplay as a hero who wants to save everyone, including anything sentient (converting kobolds to the side of good, and such). During this adventure I tried saving the lycanthropes but unfortunatly it was too dangerous to keep them tied up behind us and thus the party dispatched them. Do you have any suggestions how a hero could convince the party that it's alright to save everyone. For example, if there were a giant tower with a wizard at the top, summoning an ancient demon, how do I convince that party that if the tower starts to collapse that we need to save him? Anyone have any advice on trying to save the world, and everyone in it?
BobtheBiotitan
05-15-06, 04:33 PM In game tell them that wouldn't they rather have those guys on their side than just dead? I sure would. Imagine the benefits of having a converted demonologist to help the mage's guild track down rogue demons. Tell them that everyone deserves a second chance, but if they choose to go back to their old ways then they should be killed.

Out of game tell them that they get the same Exp as if they killed him.
Traevanon
05-15-06, 04:58 PM The party are just being metagame realists.

They probably dont want a bunch of NPCs hanging around, clogging up already crowded fighting environments and making combat take even longer than it already does. They also have to divide up XP and possibly treasure with these people.

There is also the question: Why should I risk my life to save someone who doesnt deserve, and may not even want saving?

Your character has chosen a rare and noble alignment. Unfortunately you are not in the company of others with your character's conviction. In a "real" scenario your cahracter would be paired up with others of like mind to take on noble missions suited to their beliefs. In reality everyone gets to pick what they want to play (including alignment) and they ultimately still have to adventure together.

So you have to do the bending, since you are overwhelmingly outnumbered (including possibly the DM).

Remember that this is an Adventure Game. Mostly the people who are the main characters in adventure games are not saints, they are less extremely aligned people who are in it for the knowledge, money, experience, power, to keep lost knowledge from falling into evil hands, and to keep dangerous secrets from harming innocent people.
Bulletproof_Condom
05-15-06, 05:19 PM Our recent game had our party fighting a bunch of Lycanthropes. In our party, I prefer to roleplay as a hero who wants to save everyone, including anything sentient (converting kobolds to the side of good, and such).
You do realize that Vash the Stampede was 35th level, right? It's simply not practical to try and save everyone until they're no longer a threat to you.
FallenWyvern
05-15-06, 08:22 PM BobtheBiotitan, thank you VERY much! To everyone else, thanks for the help. I'm not really in a "Build an army of Kobolds" kinda guy, I'm trying to save them from thier evil ways. If they help us, all the better but I want everyone in the world to be happy!
Psychoticpsymon
05-15-06, 10:24 PM You're weird Wyvern, but I can still make suggestions to weird people :)

Just go. Don't say a word about why you're doing it (except maybe a note to the DM if you think he/she would support you) and just do it. Theres a chance that your sudden action will just spark the others as well. If not, why can't you get the job done yourself?
annalivvie
05-19-06, 05:03 AM In the game I am in now, I am playing a gestalt bard/cleric/radiant servant of apollo/polyhymnist (custom class). She is NG, and wants to save everyone, including all the villians (unless theyre undead, and then they get roasted). :)
The thing is, you can't really change your party, I mean technically you could, if you wanted to use rolls and things against party members, but that's generally in poor taste, and not usually allowed.
So look at some other options. Here are some things that I do.
The Jiminey Cricket
This requires that you fully understand what everyone in your party is playing. Why they act the way they do, and all the things that bother each player character about the other player characters. For example: Our LG paladin, my character, our resident warlock, and our CN butt-kicker are in a battle with three crones. Well the time comes when one of the crones falls, since before they would neither give us information nor surrender. So I asked them to surrender again. They surrendered and the paladin and warlock stopped fighting. However, one crone was invisible, and the CN character killed her. I saw it because I had on true seeing. Well, after the fact, the paladin and CN fighter type caved in the crones lair and trapped her there. I wanted to redeem her, but they wanted to go onward. So instead of demanding they do what I wanted them to do, I used a guilt trip on the paladin, I told him he was being evil, and he was being unlawful, compounded with cruelty. Then when he was telling me that CN player character was in agreement I told him that CN character just killed someone after they surrendered to make him feel bad. That is taking a step toward him further developing his own conscience and leading his character the benevolent direction that I want him to go.
Choices
Try to get your party to partially neutralize enemies, and make an agreement with you to give the enemy a choice. See if you can get them to allow you to try to talk to the enemy (use diplomacy, lots of ranks) on the NPCs and offer them redemption, with the understanding that if they refuse to surrender and/or be redeemed (redeemed on a good day, surrender and turned over to someone who can control and help them if not) that you will allow your friends to do as they see fit. Because if you are truly trying to save the world, you must know that if someone refuses help and says that they will continue to do evil, you cannot let evil persist no matter how painful it is for you to lose a soul. (This also allows you to do some great role-playing).
Live by Example and The power of the redeemed
Everything that you want your party to do, make sure that you are a perfect example of that behavior. If push comes to shove you would lay down your life to save an evil person as quickly as to save a good person, because you believe that deep down we are not and cannot be evil by nature. Odds are your party is not going to let you die, and over time, they may come to appreciate your ways more and start coming in your direction. Also you may ask your DM to have one or two of the evil NPCs that you redeem and save to come back at a crucial moment where it's looking like a total party kill is on the horizon and save the party. That way the party sees that it's a good thing you're out there doing what youre doing.
Make yourself an asset
Make your character so good and powerful, that it would be a shambles without him or her. For example, in my party, I'm the primary healer, if I go down, that means within two game sessions everyone else is toast too. In a position like this you hold more sway, and you can better say to the other player characters that their behavior is not something you can deal with, and if they continue you won't be able to travel with them anymore, and make them really care, and try to at the very least accomodate if not help you.
Do the Dirty in Character if your characters are opposite gender
If your characters are of a sexual inclination that would allow it, become have your character get in a deep love relationship with another party member. There you go, now you already have one person on your side.
Make yourself the party leader
If youre powerful enough, if your character is charismatic enough, try to put yourself in the leadership role in the party. We all know that every party has a leader. If you are the leader of the party they will listen when you tell them to do something and not to do something. You just have to make sure that everyone in the party trusts your judgement and trusts that you aren't putting their characters in harm's way.
Forgiveness and Mercy
Another good way, and this is the last one I think I'll type out tonight, to make your party members change for the better is to show them the forgiveness and mercy that you want them to show others. If they do something that hurts your character or puts him or her in a horrible position, forgive and forget. Forgive the behaviors that you don't like in the other characters and continue to try to help them no matter how out of line your character feels they are. For example: NG cleric gal I'm playing reads an infernal pact that CN character made with Hades saying that he would kill someone to win back his soul. He did so. The CN character retrieved the contract and was worried about it, and asked my character to read it. She read it, and it told her the whole story of how he killed this man in order to get life from Hades. So, she went to him alone, and told him that she read the contract and she knew what he did. She also promised him that she would not tell anyone else about the transgression because she did not want him to suffer, though he might deserve it. Instead she offered to atone him, and this time instead of laughing and saying no, he dropped his head and walked away. The first step toward him becoming a better person. Yah!

Just be careful playing a character this good. You will be walking a fine line between being really good, and getting your party killed and ******* other players off. Good luck!
annalivvie
05-19-06, 05:05 AM And did I mention that my character is called Lyris the Uncorruptable? WAHAHA! She's so sweet it hurts me. :)
freelancer_bob
05-19-06, 05:41 AM I love this. This is how I love to play. Putting the GOOD back in good. I have the BEST time when I'm making Celestials squirm in discomfort at how good I am. Mercy for all, redemption wherever possible. Forgiveness, aid, generosity.

PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE: THAT is what GOOD is. The book of exalted deeds was offered merely to tempt players into at least considering playing actual good guys once in a while.

I like to pretend I never needed it, and truth to tell I enjoy playing exalted-style charcters even without the sickness that is vow of poverty.

/Street Preacher Mode Disengaged
//Gotta love slashy postscripts.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FallenWyvern 05-15-06, 03:56 PM	Our recent game had our party fighting a bunch of Lycanthropes. In our party, I prefer to roleplay as a hero who wants to save everyone, including anything sentient (converting kobolds to the side of good, and such). During this adventure I tried saving the lycanthropes but unfortunatly it was too dangerous to keep them tied up behind us and thus the party dispatched them. Do you have any suggestions how a hero could convince the party that it's alright to save everyone. For example, if there were a giant tower with a wizard at the top, summoning an ancient demon, how do I convince that party that if the tower starts to collapse that we need to save him? Anyone have any advice on trying to save the world, and everyone in it?
BobtheBiotitan 05-15-06, 04:33 PM	In game tell them that wouldn't they rather have those guys on their side than just dead? I sure would. Imagine the benefits of having a converted demonologist to help the mage's guild track down rogue demons. Tell them that everyone deserves a second chance, but if they choose to go back to their old ways then they should be killed. Out of game tell them that they get the same Exp as if they killed him.
Traevanon 05-15-06, 04:58 PM	The party are just being metagame realists. They probably dont want a bunch of NPCs hanging around, clogging up already crowded fighting environments and making combat take even longer than it already does. They also have to divide up XP and possibly treasure with these people. There is also the question: Why should I risk my life to save someone who doesnt deserve, and may not even want saving? Your character has chosen a rare and noble alignment. Unfortunately you are not in the company of others with your character's conviction. In a "real" scenario your cahracter would be paired up with others of like mind to take on noble missions suited to their beliefs. In reality everyone gets to pick what they want to play (including alignment) and they ultimately still have to adventure together. So you have to do the bending, since you are overwhelmingly outnumbered (including possibly the DM). Remember that this is an Adventure Game. Mostly the people who are the main characters in adventure games are not saints, they are less extremely aligned people who are in it for the knowledge, money, experience, power, to keep lost knowledge from falling into evil hands, and to keep dangerous secrets from harming innocent people.
Bulletproof_Condom 05-15-06, 05:19 PM	Our recent game had our party fighting a bunch of Lycanthropes. In our party, I prefer to roleplay as a hero who wants to save everyone, including anything sentient (converting kobolds to the side of good, and such). You do realize that Vash the Stampede was 35th level, right? It's simply not practical to try and save everyone until they're no longer a threat to you.
FallenWyvern 05-15-06, 08:22 PM	BobtheBiotitan, thank you VERY much! To everyone else, thanks for the help. I'm not really in a "Build an army of Kobolds" kinda guy, I'm trying to save them from thier evil ways. If they help us, all the better but I want everyone in the world to be happy!
Psychoticpsymon 05-15-06, 10:24 PM	You're weird Wyvern, but I can still make suggestions to weird people :) Just go. Don't say a word about why you're doing it (except maybe a note to the DM if you think he/she would support you) and just do it. Theres a chance that your sudden action will just spark the others as well. If not, why can't you get the job done yourself?
annalivvie 05-19-06, 05:03 AM	In the game I am in now, I am playing a gestalt bard/cleric/radiant servant of apollo/polyhymnist (custom class). She is NG, and wants to save everyone, including all the villians (unless theyre undead, and then they get roasted). :) The thing is, you can't really change your party, I mean technically you could, if you wanted to use rolls and things against party members, but that's generally in poor taste, and not usually allowed. So look at some other options. Here are some things that I do. The Jiminey Cricket This requires that you fully understand what everyone in your party is playing. Why they act the way they do, and all the things that bother each player character about the other player characters. For example: Our LG paladin, my character, our resident warlock, and our CN butt-kicker are in a battle with three crones. Well the time comes when one of the crones falls, since before they would neither give us information nor surrender. So I asked them to surrender again. They surrendered and the paladin and warlock stopped fighting. However, one crone was invisible, and the CN character killed her. I saw it because I had on true seeing. Well, after the fact, the paladin and CN fighter type caved in the crones lair and trapped her there. I wanted to redeem her, but they wanted to go onward. So instead of demanding they do what I wanted them to do, I used a guilt trip on the paladin, I told him he was being evil, and he was being unlawful, compounded with cruelty. Then when he was telling me that CN player character was in agreement I told him that CN character just killed someone after they surrendered to make him feel bad. That is taking a step toward him further developing his own conscience and leading his character the benevolent direction that I want him to go. Choices Try to get your party to partially neutralize enemies, and make an agreement with you to give the enemy a choice. See if you can get them to allow you to try to talk to the enemy (use diplomacy, lots of ranks) on the NPCs and offer them redemption, with the understanding that if they refuse to surrender and/or be redeemed (redeemed on a good day, surrender and turned over to someone who can control and help them if not) that you will allow your friends to do as they see fit. Because if you are truly trying to save the world, you must know that if someone refuses help and says that they will continue to do evil, you cannot let evil persist no matter how painful it is for you to lose a soul. (This also allows you to do some great role-playing). Live by Example and The power of the redeemed Everything that you want your party to do, make sure that you are a perfect example of that behavior. If push comes to shove you would lay down your life to save an evil person as quickly as to save a good person, because you believe that deep down we are not and cannot be evil by nature. Odds are your party is not going to let you die, and over time, they may come to appreciate your ways more and start coming in your direction. Also you may ask your DM to have one or two of the evil NPCs that you redeem and save to come back at a crucial moment where it's looking like a total party kill is on the horizon and save the party. That way the party sees that it's a good thing you're out there doing what youre doing. Make yourself an asset Make your character so good and powerful, that it would be a shambles without him or her. For example, in my party, I'm the primary healer, if I go down, that means within two game sessions everyone else is toast too. In a position like this you hold more sway, and you can better say to the other player characters that their behavior is not something you can deal with, and if they continue you won't be able to travel with them anymore, and make them really care, and try to at the very least accomodate if not help you. Do the Dirty in Character if your characters are opposite gender If your characters are of a sexual inclination that would allow it, become have your character get in a deep love relationship with another party member. There you go, now you already have one person on your side. Make yourself the party leader If youre powerful enough, if your character is charismatic enough, try to put yourself in the leadership role in the party. We all know that every party has a leader. If you are the leader of the party they will listen when you tell them to do something and not to do something. You just have to make sure that everyone in the party trusts your judgement and trusts that you aren't putting their characters in harm's way. Forgiveness and Mercy Another good way, and this is the last one I think I'll type out tonight, to make your party members change for the better is to show them the forgiveness and mercy that you want them to show others. If they do something that hurts your character or puts him or her in a horrible position, forgive and forget. Forgive the behaviors that you don't like in the other characters and continue to try to help them no matter how out of line your character feels they are. For example: NG cleric gal I'm playing reads an infernal pact that CN character made with Hades saying that he would kill someone to win back his soul. He did so. The CN character retrieved the contract and was worried about it, and asked my character to read it. She read it, and it told her the whole story of how he killed this man in order to get life from Hades. So, she went to him alone, and told him that she read the contract and she knew what he did. She also promised him that she would not tell anyone else about the transgression because she did not want him to suffer, though he might deserve it. Instead she offered to atone him, and this time instead of laughing and saying no, he dropped his head and walked away. The first step toward him becoming a better person. Yah! Just be careful playing a character this good. You will be walking a fine line between being really good, and getting your party killed and ******* other players off. Good luck!
annalivvie 05-19-06, 05:05 AM	And did I mention that my character is called Lyris the Uncorruptable? WAHAHA! She's so sweet it hurts me. :)
freelancer_bob 05-19-06, 05:41 AM	I love this. This is how I love to play. Putting the GOOD back in good. I have the BEST time when I'm making Celestials squirm in discomfort at how good I am. Mercy for all, redemption wherever possible. Forgiveness, aid, generosity. PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE: THAT is what GOOD is. The book of exalted deeds was offered merely to tempt players into at least considering playing actual good guys once in a while. I like to pretend I never needed it, and truth to tell I enjoy playing exalted-style charcters even without the sickness that is vow of poverty. /Street Preacher Mode Disengaged //Gotta love slashy postscripts.