Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mercutio531 04-29-07, 03:16 PM	Maybe this has been addressed, but I havent seen it and thought Id ask. The Heirophant is the Divine equivalent of the Archmage, but the Archmage gains spells at every level but the Heirophant does not. Am I the only one who thinks this is weird or wrong?
daggeroflath 04-29-07, 03:25 PM	I think it's weird. I was actually just looking at that the other day, considering it. I might take another look at that, try to figure out if there's a reason why.
AffableDoomwalker 04-29-07, 05:10 PM	Its not really the "archmage" of divine casters... its more like a divine caster "Mk.II" The benefit is the special abilities of your choosing that you get at each level. Level up, become Hierophant, choose crazy-tasty ability, be happy, repeat four more times.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 04-29-07, 05:42 PM	Its not really the "archmage" of divine casters... its more like a divine caster "Mk.II" The benefit is the special abilities of your choosing that you get at each level. Level up, become Hierophant, choose crazy-tasty ability, be happy, repeat four more times. And how is that not the divine the equivalent of the archmage? Both get special abilities of your choosing at all five levels. I can only guess it's WotC's nod to the fact that divine magic tends to be more powerful. That said, I'm a little wary of some options. Like the ability to share wild shape. The divine powers punish you if you lend them and the lendee misuses them. You lose class abilities if someone else misuses wild shape.
AffableDoomwalker 04-29-07, 06:54 PM	And how is that not the divine the equivalent of the archmage? Both get special abilities of your choosing at all five levels. I can only guess it's WotC's nod to the fact that divine magic tends to be more powerful. I'd say its was exactly that. Its not just CoDzilla, now its CoDzilla and friends. Not literally, but, well, think about it, a Cleric, or a Druid have to do to gain his/her spells? Pray at a certain time of day? The entire library (if you will) of a certain level of spells are open to them once they gain the ability to cast them. What are they losing out on by taking a 5 level swim in excellence? Not much considering the abilities available to them. Mages and sorcerers on the other hand... they stand to lose out on a lot if they skip out on 5 levels, even if they are gaining nifty abilities.
Morwen 04-29-07, 06:56 PM	What are they losing out on by taking a 5 level swim in excellence? Not much considering the abilities available to them. 8th and 9th level spells, assuming you take Hierophant pre-Epic.
Marcus Majarra 04-29-07, 07:36 PM	Actually, maxing out Hierophant pre-epic only costs you access to 9th-level spells.
AffableDoomwalker 04-29-07, 07:40 PM	Actually, maxing out Hierophant pre-epic only costs you access to 9th-level spells. Beat me to it. C'est la vie.
Morwen 04-29-07, 08:10 PM	Actually, maxing out Hierophant pre-epic only costs you access to 9th-level spells. Hm, somehow managed to miscalculate 15+5 :P In any case, 9th-level spells are a pretty big deal :)
mercutio531 04-30-07, 01:27 AM	I dunno.. It seems to me if a wizard goes 20 levels in wizard and gets access to 9th level spells the same as a cleric, but the wizard has the option of getting some sweet sweet abilities AND STILL get 9th level spells and only saccing a free metamagic feat or two, meanwhile the cleric gets very similar abilities but gains NO spells, and if they stick to cleric... Hmm... HIgh level cleric abilities? Oh yeah.. None. To me it seems as if the cleric gets the raw deal. Maybe have heirophant gain 4 out of 5 levels of caster or something.. Just seems downright unfair as all other area of the classes are comparable to each other..
runestar 04-30-07, 07:39 AM	If you play epic lvs, you will start to appreciate the heirophant prc even more. Practiced spellcaster stacks with heirophant class lvs. So a cleric13/heirophant4 has caster lv21. Take spell power multiple times, add in a karma bead and ankh of ascension. You should have caster lv30+ by now. Spam holy word. Profit.:D
TwiddleStootch 04-30-07, 12:34 PM	Also, two other things about the Heirophant Vs. Archmage: 1) Heirophant has easier entrance requirements, 1 feat Vs. 3 and 1 skill at 15 ranks vs. 2 also, the Archmage must have spells from 5 different schools, forcing them to pick some spells they might not otherwise. 2) All the arachmage abilities (High Arcana) require that you give up a spell slot, forever! The heirophant abilities have no drawback, just pure powerup. Just my :twocents:
navar100 05-02-07, 03:33 AM	Also, two other things about the Heirophant Vs. Archmage: 1) Heirophant has easier entrance requirements, 1 feat Vs. 3 and 1 skill at 15 ranks vs. 2 also, the Archmage must have spells from 5 different schools, forcing them to pick some spells they might not otherwise. 2) All the arachmage abilities (High Arcana) require that you give up a spell slot, forever! The heirophant abilities have no drawback, just pure powerup. Just my :twocents: Not getting any spell progression is a major drawback. I'd much rather have to dedicate/spend a spell slot for an ability, like the Archmage, then not get any spells for the level whatsoever. Heirophant is excellent for epic. It sucks pre-epic. Maybe, just maybe, it's ok for a 1 level dip for Divine Reach. 30ft range Harm, Slay Living, Bestow Curse, Heal, etc. without an increase in level slot as the metamagic feat Reach Spell would force upon you just might be worth the cost of losing one level in progression.