Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Moogle0119 07-04-04, 08:49 AM	Hi all, I've been a long time visitor to these boards this is my first post though :). Anyway to get right to the point this is the current team.... Me - Human Cleric (Luck and War domains chaotic good alignment) almost 10th caster level - Tiefling Wizard (Divination specialist) 10th caster level CR: 11 - Tiefling Ranger - Half orc bard almost done with Dragon Disciple CR: 11 - Gnome rogue CR: 8 - Human Ranger (dead now....) The only difference as far as my spell list goes is that I do not have the Planeshift spell since the DM outlawed it Anyhow the two Tieflings on the team are somewhat working together to retrieve the same item the rest of us are. Just recently I was handed 4 pieces of the item that we are all looking for and the tiefling wizard aggresively tried to persuade me into giving him the pieces so he may put it in "a safer place". I refused and later the next morning before everyone got up I casted Commune with my god and learned that the pieces are not safe with EITHER of the tieflings and neither one of them is trustworthy however the other two party members are trustworthy. Here's the catch, my cleric character has only been around for maybe 6 sessions (we're about 20 into the campaign so far) and I know for a fact out of character that his character is Lawful Neutral leaning towards evil. Also I know out of character that he was responsible for the death of one of our other members (the Human Ranger above) using a clever magic jar method. The player and the character are extremely intelligent and it's both a blessing in battles and a curse in dealing with him the rest of the time:banghead: . Again, out of character I know that he will use the pieces to this powerful magic item for the gain of evil. Now that I know in character that neither of the Tieflings can be trusted I am wondering how I can safely hide these pieces since people all around the world are searching for them at this very moment. I have access up to 5th level cleric spells and the only scroll I have that is outside of my cleric list at the moment is Refuge. We left off about 5 days journey to the closest town (which is just a frontier's town nothing fancy) and at the front door to a very big dungeon underground. Also another thing to note is that the Tiefling wizard DOES know the Teleport spell so I'm wondering if that might be useful. The only problem is that the wizard is very selfish and would not start casting Teleport on us without good cause. Please help me, I feel like I have to save the party from another PC who might even nab the items while I sleep next session or do something worse (magic jar.......:weep: )
Vaelan 07-04-04, 09:30 AM	You could use Planar Ally, Lesser and try to persuade whatever you manage to summon to take and guard your pieces(or bring them to a sufficiently powerful being that could take care of them). Obviously this is only the best solution if them(evil) not having it is far more important than you(good) having it. The interesting thing about this solution is, since the DM banned the Planeshift spell, the Tieflings would have a slightly harder time retrieving those pieces.
Jolvar 07-04-04, 04:52 PM	outsmart a wizard ? Steal his spellbook and hide it away. After that, speak with him around a table and have a deal. :smirk:
roguebfl 07-04-04, 04:58 PM	or use the Said Panar Ally to take the paices to your High Cleric of your church 8)
Edward 07-04-04, 07:17 PM	Hide them on the plain of your god. Method Cast plainer ally for an appropriate celestial in the service of your god (your GM will tell you what you want with a successful knowledge religion check and telling him your plan) explain your situation to the celestial and ask him to take the items to a safe place in your gods protection. There are large arias that your god is protecting anyway so it isn’t a big job. You may need to pay for the service but who cares. You hand your ally the artefacts and he returns to his home plain and puts them somewhere safe (your gods vault will be likely). As you gather more parts you continues to summon the same celestial and give him the artefacts. When all have been recovered and you know what you need to do with them you summon your ally again and tell him you are ready. He returns to his home plain retrieves the items you cast plainer ally again and this time he has them on his person hands them to you and you do what needs to be done. There is the possibility that your god will not deem the action you where to use the artefacts for to be good and will not release it back to you. As a cleric you would trust your god’s judgment and not argue or even be very disappointed (other than you don’t get to have fun). When ever anybody asks where they are respond simply “there is no safer place than where they are now” or simply “safe from the likes of you” depending who is asking and what you want them to know about your feelings towards them. tell nobody their location even those you trust (it could be forced out of them) Edward
Moogle0119 07-05-04, 01:10 AM	Those are great ideas guys thanks. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I forgot that my DM also does NOT allow Conjuration spells (they don't exist in the world except for a modified Summon Nature's Ally) so unfortunately I can't cast Planar Ally:( . The only plan I could think of is to wait until I can cast 6th level Cleric spells; cast Word of Recall (designated in center of my church stronghold) and give the pieces to them and then use my scroll of Refuge to transport back to the group. Technically that could be done during the night perhaps my watch even I could wake up one of my allies that can be trusted to pull double-duty while I hide the pieces and the wizard would never know where I went or that I even left. The only problem is again that I'm about 2000 exp shy of 10th level and 6th level Cleric spells are gained at 11th level and I may not be able to hold onto them for that long before the wizard decides to take the pieces for himself during the night:tantrum: .
Zolgar 07-05-04, 01:19 AM	Kill the tiefling in his sleep.. It was an accident, honest.
green_yawgmoth 07-05-04, 01:25 AM	Originally posted by Jolvar outsmart a wizard ? Steal his spellbook and hide it away. After that, speak with him around a table and have a deal. :smirk: HAHAHAHAHAno. Apparently you weren't here for the thread about the rogue who stole the wizard's spellbook in an attempt to control him. Let's just say that the Rogue isn't trying that again. Or much of anything else, for that matter. ;) I'd say your best bet would be Lesser Planar Ally, get yourself a celestial, and tell him you're hiding these things from people with obvious fiendish blood; he'll probably do it for you on principle. And if that goes awry, pick up some flashbombs from your local alchemist for a quick getaway before the wizard blasts you with Disintegrate.
roguebfl 07-05-04, 01:41 AM	Originally posted by Moogle0119 The only problem is again that I'm about 2000 exp shy of 10th level and 6th level Cleric spells are gained at 11th level and I may not be able to hold onto them for that long before the wizard decides to take the pieces for himself during the night:tantrum: . get some scrolls of said spells from your mentors back at the temple 8)
Gilrion 07-05-04, 08:55 AM	Without Conjuration spells things become a bit harder. But let's see what we can do. First, you could try convincing the wizard to teleport you to a city with a temple to your god. I don't know the particular situation your campaign is in, but this could be doable, from buying magical items to visiting someone. Say you've received a sending and you must go somewhere urgently--offer him payment, by way of spellcasting or hard coin, magical items, whatever works if he refuses. When you get to the said temple, take care of business. Entrust it to someone there, even if not very powerful--after all, you follow a god of luck. Another alternative would be to simply hope your luck holds (again, if you are following such a deity). Keep the items in your possession, watch the tieflings, but otherwise do nothing to get the items away form them unless the opportunity presents itself. This may lead to you losing the items, but it may have some nice roleplaying value to it: the tieflings are about to use the items for their evil purpose, and you reveal that you knew about it all along, but believed they would change their minds, etc. Might even help turn them against evil, but it depends heavily on the circumstances and the people involved. If a direct confrontation does come about, it may come about at an innoportune time for you (ie, low on spells, health, etc). My advice: keep one Obscuring Mist spell memorized. It's great, envelops you in a fog that blocks out targetted spells (since the wizard can't see you). Combine with Blindsight and you can see perfectly (in fact, you don't have to roll spot checks, so the ranger's sneakiness is a non-issue). Resist Elements and similar magic should just about make you immune to the wizard. Now, I'm not saying if worse comes to worse you kill them. These are just to help you protect yourself, at a relatively low cost (the only high-level spell for you is Blindsight). Good luck, and have fun!
hekker 07-05-04, 10:49 AM	HAHAHAHAHAno. Apparently you weren't here for the thread about the rogue who stole the wizard's spellbook in an attempt to control him. Let's just say that the Rogue isn't trying that again. Or much of anything else, for that matter. I'd say your best bet would be Lesser Planar Ally, get yourself a celestial, and tell him you're hiding these things from people with obvious fiendish blood; he'll probably do it for you on principle Didn't read other people's post, did you? NO conjuration spells, the thread starter said... @Moogle: How's it possible wizard can cast teleport, teleport is a conjuration(teleportation) spell I would say secret chest but thats a conjuration to :mad:.
Dipree Xarann 07-05-04, 11:38 AM	Originally posted by Gilrion Without Conjuration spells things become a bit harder. But let's see what we can do. *snip* If a direct confrontation does come about, it may come about at an innoportune time for you (ie, low on spells, health, etc). My advice: keep one Obscuring Mist spell memorized. It's great, envelops you in a fog that blocks out targetted spells (since the wizard can't see you). Combine with Blindsight and you can see perfectly (in fact, you don't have to roll spot checks, so the ranger's sneakiness is a non-issue). Resist Elements and similar magic should just about make you immune to the wizard. Now, I'm not saying if worse comes to worse you kill them. These are just to help you protect yourself, at a relatively low cost (the only high-level spell for you is Blindsight). Good luck, and have fun! Gilrion's suggestions are very sound since your DM doesn't allow conjuration spells. But I do suggest one more spell if it comes down to a fight between you and the tiefling wizard: cast silence centered on a point in space above the wizard's head, close to melee, and use subdual damage to bash him into unconsciousness. I doubt he has his entire spell repertoire prepared with Silent Spell metamagic.
Edward 07-05-04, 06:11 PM	I wrote a very long post on using stone shape to hide the items but it got eaten. Find safeish place. Cast stone shape to secure items under 5’ of rock forbiddance on aria if it is untravelled eg cave when you det to that level stone shape cave mouth closed. Things like that. Mark of justice and geas/quest on the wizard but beware his wrath. If you do it an appropriate command would be to place and keep all the artefacts in your position. Edward
green_yawgmoth 07-05-04, 06:45 PM	Originally posted by hekker Didn't read other people's post, did you? NO conjuration spells, the thread starter said... @Moogle: How's it possible wizard can cast teleport, teleport is a conjuration(teleportation) spell I would say secret chest but thats a conjuration to :mad:. Well Soooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. I run on a crappy dialup, so I have to wait about a minute/post for a page to load. If I see something I want to respond directly to, I'll do it before the page finishes loading; otherwise I'd be waiting all night. How can the DM, in good concience, ban an entire school of magic? O.o Especially Conjuration, which is one of the better schools. I mean, that's like saying "No one in game has ever thought of creating a spell that would summon an angel to help, or transport them instantly to a location they've been to before". Just doesn't make sense to me at all. :confused:
CJ1720 07-06-04, 02:10 AM	As a 9th level cleric with the luck domain, you have access to the miracle spell. You ask for the miracle of teleportation (transmutation level 5). Teleport to the highest temple of your god and entrust them to the head cleric. Hope that the highest level cleric there can ward them sufficiently to protect them from a 10th level caster wizard. Otherwise, choose any 8th level cleric spell to imitate or any other spell of 7th level. You could expend 5,000 xp to do something even more powerful. With this spell the world's your oyster. Keep some scrying, discern lies, spell turning and your power word (war domain) spells around. Keep them on your person -- if possible. If he tries to take them and a saving throw is required, you can reroll it with your luck domain. With all of the spells at your command, protecting these things is not all that difficult.
Edward 07-06-04, 04:23 AM	CJ1720. How is he going to cast miracle. He is 9th level not having access to 9th level spells. Also as the mage has teleport and that is a conjuration spell I suspect that only conjuration(calling) and (summoning) spells where banned as well as any inter plainer travel spells. In the face of a determined summoner I have considered nerfing that set of spells (there not over powered but one PC with 15 allies makes combat drag). For the moment stone shape is probably your best bet. Just take a peek in the wizards spell book (copy the spell names for your perusal whenever you desire) if he doesn’t have it then 6-10 feet of solid rock should keep him especially if it is in a place that is incidentally well protected (guard building, church, nobles residence) Edward
CJ1720 07-06-04, 05:14 AM	Thanks, Edward. You're right. I misinterpretted the domain rules rather badly. Just a misreading on my part. Domain spells advance at spell levels not character levels as I had thought. But in the 3.0 PHB clearly lists teleport as a transmutation spell on p. 170 (the Sorcerer and Wizards Spell list) and p. 264 (spell descriptions). I read earlier posts stating that it is a conjuration spell, but unless it changed areas in the update to 3.5, I don't know where that is listed. If you could explain that descrepancy, I would appreciate it. Your stone shape idea has merit, but will only slow a determined person down. Ideally, I think he will have to keep the pieces on him in a warded container. Any failed saving throw and he uses his luck domain's reroll ability. How heavy are the pieces and what size are they?
roguebfl 07-06-04, 05:18 AM	Originally posted by CJ1720 I read earlier posts stating that it is a conjuration spell, but unless it changed areas in the update to 3.5, I don't know where that is listed. If you could explain that descrepancy, I would appreciate it. the SRD list teleport here (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/spellsTtoZ.html#teleport) with it's changed school
Edward 07-06-04, 07:06 AM	The primary protection with the stone shape is not the stone itself. It is the difficulty of finding it (check his spell book for divinations) and if you put it somewhere secure then it wont look good when he is chiping away at the statue in the centre of town with a chisel to get the items you hid in its belly in the middle of the knight while you where invisible (I think that is in the trickery domain). Then when he goes to get it he gets in trouble with the law. When you get another level you can hide some in a cave using forbiddance to block scrying effects and he will be taking damage while he is chiselling (you want a cave so commoners don’t walk threw and die. Seal the cave entrance and he wont be able to TP in so more chiselling. Edward
nick012000 07-06-04, 09:34 AM	Your DM banned Conjuration spells and Plane Shift (and, extrapolating, probably everything else regarding to Planar travel), but you have two tieflings, aka demon-blooded humans in the party? WTF!? How did their grandparents (or whoever) sleep with demons if there's no way for demons to get to the Material Plane? :twitch:
Moogle0119 07-06-04, 11:47 AM	Thanks guys I appreciate the replies. As far as Stone Shape, well about a year ago a similar thing was tried in the same campaign world with a different valuable item and it was stolen within two months, and it was hidden in a secretive Druidic grove which is forbidden to normal folk. The thing is besides the Wizard in the group there are WORSE baddies looking for these pieces as well (someone asked what exactly these pieces were: well they are shards of a sword that when put together completely grants the wielder god-like abilites; typical I know;) . So basically there's me and half of the group working for the good guys (aka good aligned), there's the two tieflings in the group (Wizard is lawful neutral, I'm pretty sure the other tiefling is as well or neutral something), and then there's the evil baddies who would use it to bring demons into the world and all this other bad stuff. The tieflings themselves will probably use it to fuel their country's power and regain control over half the world. A quick history is that a thousand years ago, angels and devils existed on the mortal plane but due to a fight between the two they are now exiled into the outer planes (hence why it is so difficult to visit another plane and vice versa with the outlaw of most conjuration spells). Anyway before they were banished devils mated with humans and tieflings are the result of this powerful country WAY further south but recently they have lost a lot of land and are looking to regain their position of power. Considering I am about a 5 days journey from the closest town (and I use the term "town" loosely as it is no metropolis and has maybe 2 spellcasters in the town itself) I am pretty much SOL as far as going into a town nearby and asking my church order to protect the pieces of the blade since the head of my church order itself is at least a 3 month journey south:( . Oh yeah and I'm not sure if I mentioned this already or not but the wizard IS a diviner specialist meaning he does have scry and if I attempt to stone shape it somewhere nearby he'll eventually find it once he finds out that I no longer carry it. Again thanks everyone for the ideas I do appreciate them:) .
Gilrion 07-06-04, 03:23 PM	One more thing I thought of: glyph of warding. You can ward each individual piece against something specific (is non-good creatures valid?), that would slow the wizard down should he take the item, or at least help alert you to the act. You need some material components, but it should be viable. The stone shape idea does have merit, although the other baddies would likely get it. Still, if you surround the pieces with at least 1 foot of stone, only high-level divinations would work. IIRC, scrying only works on creatures, not objects. Clairaudience/Clairvoyance is useless since you have to guess the location. Locate Object should be blocked by the stone, as well as any detect spells. There are other divinations capable of it, though, with Discern Location a full-proof method (although it is 8th level). Legend Lore/Vision requires too much guesswork IMO. What I might do is use the stone shape idea on a small (but not defenseless) temple of your deity or other benevolent god, to a single shard. Rely on luck (again, seems fitting for your character) and maybe hide it in another god's temple without anyone (except maybe the high priest) knowing. Anyone wanting to break into it would have to face the temple's defenses, and guess the location of the shard. If you do it to a single shard, you can easily retrieve it once you need it: you have Teleport now, so just be sure to have the wizard memorize some place nearby. I think in the long run, this plan could very well work. Only very high-level opponents will be able to get the shard--and if they could get at it in the temple, they could have gotten it from you. Good luck.
Moogle0119 07-07-04, 10:10 PM	Actually that might be a pretty good idea with the Glyph of Warding. The pieces right now are in two separate bottles with a cork in the top. I could put the Glyph onto each cork and have it set to go off whenever the bottle is touched by someone other than me. The only thing now is the choice of whether I should have the Glyph be a Blast Glyph dealing damage whenever it is touched OR if I should make it a Spell Glyph with Bestow Curse in it. I know it's a bit of a long shot but if I put Bestow Curse in it I could have it do the -6 to an ability score and IF the wizard tried to open it it could lower his Int by 6 and therefore prevent him from using anything but 2nd or 3rd level spells due to his Int being dropped. He won't be able to cure it either since Remove Curse is a 4th level Sor/Wiz spell. Of course I'd have to get lucky with the Wizard failing a Will save of 18 though and if I had to guess, I'd say his Will save is around a 13 give or take a few points :(. I know it's a bit of a long shot so I'm not sure if I should bother going that route or just choose the Blast Glyph so I know when it goes off it will alert me regardless if I'm asleep or not.
Simetrical 07-08-04, 12:26 AM	I'd probably go with Blast Glyph. Not only will it wake you up, but it's going to seriously hurt a 10th-level wizard when cast at 9th caster level. I mean, we're talking probably close to 70% of his HP lost. (If you take this approach, I would sleep with it ten feet away from you, to minimize the risk of being injured yourself.)
the Horc 07-08-04, 01:31 PM	Originally posted by nick012000 Your DM banned Conjuration spells and Plane Shift (and, extrapolating, probably everything else regarding to Planar travel), but you have two tieflings, aka demon-blooded humans in the party? WTF!? How did their grandparents (or whoever) sleep with demons if there's no way for demons to get to the Material Plane? :twitch: Well, maybe the gods, after some incident involving planar travel, banned Extraplanar travel in this realm, and it was only recently that this has become the case.
Gilrion 07-08-04, 03:54 PM	Given the wizard's good Will save, I would make it a blast glyph. Still, I would try to put several glyphs (one on the cork, one on the bottle? one in each shard?). If you do get to put several glyphs, I suggest one Bestow Curse and one blast glyph. Another great spell to put up is Blindness/Deafness. Blindness on a wizard means no targetting of any spells, and it's a Fort save. He'll have to go to a cleric or paladin to heal it. Also, once you level upto 10th I would cast Glyph of Warding again to get the full benefit of the max damage. Since you've got 5th level spells (and I assume you're playing 3.5) take a look at Symbol spells. A quick browse through the spell description didn't say you couldn't have, say, a Symbol of Pain and a Symbol of Sleep, both of which you can cast. I could be wrong, check it carefully. It gets expensive, but it is an artifact we're talking about protecting here... The symbol of pain seems to do nothing to prevent spellcasting, but a wizard with 5d8 damage, possibly blind and in pain has a harder time running away with an artifact IMO. Once you get 6th level spells, you should put up a Greater Glyph of Warding with a 6th level spell or somesuch (Harm comes to mind, even if he makes the save that's 55 points of damage minimum). Again, hope it helps.
talast 07-08-04, 05:25 PM	you mentioned magic jar earlier, I doubt your gylphs will do any good when he can just magic jar you and use your body to open to bottles, take out the pieces and give it to him. you also said the wizard is a specialized wizard in divination magic, that means finding things is his specialty. so hiding it won't help, because he'll just cast scry and find it, maybe the 1st time he fails his die roll, but the next and the next and so on will eventually lead him to a success, therefore, he'll find the location of the items. at since your DM wants to stop any form of summonings, why don't you throw the problem right back at him by casting the 4th lvl divination spell and ask "what's the best way to handle the items" or whatever you deem fit and see what the DM says. And if something goes wrong, you can hold your DM to it. You can also ask by the way of the spell to have your god send someone over and take the items off your hands. It might not work, but it's worth a try. by the way, at since all the healing spells are conjuration, does your DM ban that as well?
Edward 07-08-04, 08:17 PM	Can you cast a blast glyph for very low damage. Put it on your pack effectively as a permanent alarm. Make it command word bypass (hand sign bypass) not you bypass so magic jar wont let him have you take it out. If it goes off your allies (those that actually are your allies) will come to your rescue. Make shore one of them has prot evil prepped to cut of a magic jar spell. Edward
Wizard 07-08-04, 08:35 PM	If one blast glyph will do about 70% of the wizard's hp in damage.... Make two of them. :) But let me say in principle that a cleric can never outsmart a wizard. :D
Tsuul 07-08-04, 08:57 PM	Convince the wizard to polymorph the pieces of the artifact into pearls and to cast the spell that eliminates the magical aura on them. I can't remember the spell name, but there is one that makes objects unlocatable(if it has a suitable duration). Have the wizard do these to the artifact pieces individualy to protect it from "the bad guys".Then switch the pearls for mundain ones later on. Dispel magic on the polymorph spell on the pearls (leaving the aura misdirection and posibly the unlocate spell). And keep the "pearls" in plain sight in a bag around your neck under your robes at all times. And pray your luck prayers that he robs instead of kills u. Bah scratch all that. Poly any object is an 8th level spell. You could hope that the wizard min maxed and has not to great of a wisdom score. Craft yourself replicas(since you can't conjur them). Proclaim to tht party in a grand speech that you have been given instructions to hide the pieces from mortal hands until <insert wacky prophetic timetables where you are the retriever of the items here> has come to pass. Obviously chuck the replicas into a bag of holding. Continue your little speech, ham it up saying how dangerous hiding these pieces will be, but that the rewards will be even greater. Then in a quick motion chuck the bag into another extradimentional space thus sending their contents to the Astral plain. Exclaim "Wow, that didn't kill us at all. Let's check out that dungeon." The problem is hiding this from the diviner. His locate object spells should fail if you keep the real pieces in an extradimentional space. His commune spells should be vague, and should verify that the objects are on the Astral, and that you are indeed the one who posseses the means to retrieve the objects, since you own the bag. I suggest firetraps and more firetraps on the bag. Double check on which extradimentional spaces put into which extradimentional spaces mearly send the contents to the astral vs. the ones that opena rift and suck people into the astral. Bone up on your wizards divination spells and their limits.
Brand Finbuck 07-09-04, 03:19 AM	My suggestion: Purchase a scroll of Wind Walk at the first available opportunity. When your watch hits that night, cast the spell from the scroll and zip away at ludicrous speeds towards your Church's capital. Give the items to your high priest for safekeeping, but ask him to do everything in his power to safeguard them from wrongdoing. (It may be wise to distribute the items to different safekeepers, power can corrupt).
Moogle0119 07-09-04, 08:50 AM	Gilrion - I like your idea about using Greater Glyph of Warding when I level up. I should be able to convince the wizard to teleport us back to town for a day or two so I can get some material components for spells (even if it means he will belittle me by insulting my intelligence saying I should have prepared ahead of time blah blah blah). Although I think switching the Blast Glyph for a Harm spell would not be a good idea. I know his Will save is pretty good and he will most likely make the save for half damage, however he is a wizard and more likely than not he will fail his Reflex save on the Blast Glyph ;) . Oh and Symbol of Pain and Sleep I already checked and I thought they were pretty weak with a much more expensive component for casting. Symbol of Pain only makes them suffer a -4 to attacks, skill checks, and ability checks. Definitely would not stop the wizard from casting spells to transport the goods back to his home land. talast - Thats a very good point about his love for the Magic Jar spell. I could probably resist his spell for a few nights with my nice will save of 15 (plus reroll from Luck domain :D ) but if I lose to it I'm sure he'll just make me open it and then hand the pieces to him personally which would suck. I had thought about casting Divination earlier and asking my god what to do with them but as of right now I have a 79% chance (soon to be 80%) of getting a correct divination rather than a false one and while those are still pretty good odds it's almost not worth risking it. As for the last question no thank goodness he did not ban cure spells since they are conjuration I think I made the spells too broad when I said "all conjuration" but rather I should have said "all conjuration spells that have to do with summoning" sorry for all that confusion everyone :D . Edward - Great idea I should include a password of some sort as the ONLY means of allowing access to the shards, so if he possesses me he will still set it off if he (as me) opens it. Right now I have 63 HP and will level up again soon so I almost don't mind taking a direct hit from a Blast Glyph (as long as it's not in the middle of a battle which I highly doubt since they're all hidden inside my Bag of Holding Type 1) . Wizard - A nice idea but I believe in the spell description it says you can only have one Glyph on a single thing at a time and I doubt my DM would ever let me slide by stacking multiple Glyphs onto the jars :D . And I do agree with you though a Wizard will 99% of the time outsmart a Cleric and the worst part is, is that the Wizard player is VERY good too, he knows his spells inside-out and although he isn't min-maxed he is a dangerous foe/ally since he definitely does his homework and always seems to have the best spell prepared ahead of time w/o cheating. Tsuul - Off the top of my head I believe the wizard does have a decent Wis score probably around 16 or so and the other problem is that I don't think Clerics in our campaign can go into the Astral Plane yet with our DM banning Plane Shift but I'll be honest I haven't read thoroughly over each and every single one of my spells (this is my first time playing a serious spellcaster but I'm getting the hang of it :ayyyy!: . Brand Finbuck - Not a bad idea but I think I'd almost rather prefer Word of Recall instead since that's an instant spell with no range except to stay on the same plane. As I was saying earlier my original idea was to try to get ahold of this spell and use it in conjunction with my scroll of Refuge to visit church HQ (using Word of Recall and designating my sanctuary to be the church HQ that I am familiar with) and once I am done handing the shards over use Refuge to transport back; although I am curious since it is a scroll of Refuge how would that work exactly? Would I have to have one of my true allies use the spell to transport me back? :confused: anyone???
Gilrion 07-09-04, 07:26 PM	Originally posted by Moogle0119 Although I think switching the Blast Glyph for a Harm spell would not be a good idea. I know his Will save is pretty good and he will most likely make the save for half damage, however he is a wizard and more likely than not he will fail his Reflex save on the Blast Glyph ;) . Yes, but let's take a look at you at caster level 11. Harm does 110 points of damage, Will save for half. That is 55 points of damage guaranteed, to a minimum of 1 hp. A blast glyph of a Greater Glyph of Warding at CL 11 does 5d8 damage of some element of your choice. This has an average of 4.5*5 = 22.5, and a max damage of 40 hit points, if he fails the save. The only advantage is that it hits people within 5 feet of the warded area, but since your main concern seems to be the wizard, Harm is better every time. Furthermore, the blast glyph can be protected against by Resist Elements and similar magic. Harm cannot. Like I said, the best thing to do is probably ward each individual shard with a glyph, and set them to different types. As I was saying earlier my original idea was to try to get ahold of this spell and use it in conjunction with my scroll of Refuge to visit church HQ (using Word of Recall and designating my sanctuary to be the church HQ that I am familiar with) and once I am done handing the shards over use Refuge to transport back; although I am curious since it is a scroll of Refuge how would that work exactly? Would I have to have one of my true allies use the spell to transport me back? :confused: anyone??? Refuge allows you to prepare an item so that when it is broken and a command word is spoken, the person who does so is transported to the caster's home. What that is is a bit upto the GM, but I would think it refers to your permanent home, or the place you "feel" is home, ie not the place you slept in last night. If you grew up in a temple and then set off adventuring, I would rule the temple to be your home. There is also another option, where the person who breaks the item is not transported, but instead the caster (in this case, you) is transported to within 10 feet of the possessor of the item. This is sort of an emergency help button. Ok, I think I've just had a good idea. Can the shards be moved? If so, place them all in one container. Make it so that the container must be broken to open it (a sealed glass container, the interior of a small statuette). Then use your scroll of Refuge on the item. Set the password to not speaking at all (not sure this would work, if not keep reading). Then when the item is broken to get to the shard, its wielder will be teleported to your abode (ideally a prominent church). You can also modify this so that you are transported to within 10 feet of the possessor of the item at the time of breakage. Both these options are available as per Refuge, as I explained above. If the password thing doesn't get by your GM, here is another option. Same container, one or more of the shards in it (I'm assuming all the shards are needed to complete whatever ritual is bad). Plainly state to the party that you're afraid the bad guys can get to the shards, so you warn everyone (including the tieflings) that you will put one of the shards in this container, and protect it with a Glyph of Warding. Set a password, and give it to them. Then quietly place the Refuge on the item, with the same password. Whoever breaks the seal will say the password, and therefore be transported as you have chosen. Now, if you set the Refuge to transport the person to your above (as per the spell), you should warn others of this. This can easily be done with Sending. Talk to someone you trust within your church, and have them prepare for this contingency. The bag of holding idea does have merit, and I still suggest you hide one of the pieces inside the wall of some church (of your god or no). If you put the piece inside a bag of holding, Scrying will be a whole lot more difficult (since the object is on another plane). Locate and Detect spells will not function either (although these were already blocked by 1 foot of solid stone if you could manage that). Anyway, good luck. Do let us know how it goes, and what you end up doing.
Moogle0119 07-10-04, 01:31 AM	Thanks for your continued input Gilrion I'm glad I could receive your help as well as everyone else's on this troubling situation :) . I don't think using the Refuge spell in the way you suggested would be too helpful though, since the wizard could quickly teleport out PLUS my church order does not know that I'm on this mission (although a simple Sending spell or two could solve that easily) I was thinking of preparing Word of Recall in the morning (with the destination my church stronghold) and during night-watch on my watch; wake up one of my true allies and handing him the Refuge scroll and telling him to use the scroll and break the item in 1/2 an hour. After telling him this I use Word of Recall and within that 1/2 an hour tell the other priests my ordeal, hand over the shards and prepare to be teleported back as per the alternate version of the Refuge spell. This way the Wizard never really has to know what I did with them and may even think I still have them until he decides to snoop around one night. Oh and I don't think it would be wise to put all the pieces into one container. I have four shards of this relic sword (think Inuyasha if you've seen it, we've retrieved the shards from the weapons/armor/and even bodies of our enemies) and two are decidely evil and the other two are good shards. Hence the two glowing white shards and the other two are dark shards typical I know but it's not exactly the same as Inuyasha. As for the Blast Glyph vs. Glyph w/ Harm spell you're right I misread the Greater Blast Glyph as doing 10d8 (but that's only at 20th caster level) and yeah you're right the damage would be greater regardless. The ONLY thing that would suck though is that it would not alarm me if it happened in the middle of the night, but a lot of these plans are mostly relying on chance anyway. I believe our next session will be on the 18th of July so I still have some time to think about it. Thanks to you guys though at least I have an idea of what to do thanks again everyone for the input :) .
Edward 07-10-04, 02:39 AM	The advantage of the blast glyph is that it is loud it will alert you and your true allies to the threat. Harm will defiantly not kill the wizard so he takes the damage drinks a potion and books while everybody is till asleep. I believe your safest bet is to treat them differently. Many strategies have been suggested hear. Apply a different one to each shard. Edward