help a fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

help a fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bael the Bard
05-29-05, 11:05 PM Well I've been playing an 8th lv fighter/2 dwarven defender in an RPGA campaign with a 25 point buy system. I have an ok ac 33, I have a good str and bab, I deal ok damage 1d10 +9. So I can take about anything the dm throws at me, the only problem is I can't make will saves. I know this is partial due to having a low wis and being a fighter, but I still would like to know what can I do.

Here was what happened we were about to fight a wizard that had a shield guardian, well I'm like a construct ha who cares I have an adamantine warhammer I'll just smash it. Then he casts charm person and I fail the will save, the dm's like you're now the BBEG's favorite buddy and these guys are trying to hurt him, your LG right, I'm like yeah so, ok defend him from these people around you, then I start attacking the party. I do 33 points of damage to the rogue, then the party runs away and the session ends. Its a RPGA type game so items reset after the session ends and we get exp and gold, on what we did during the game.

What I want to know is, what can I do to prevent this from happening again, I mean it was funny but I don't want to kill the party cause I failed a save to a 1st lv spell. I know that I could get a cloak of res, or increase my wis, but is there any other way to protect myself from mind affecting spells, like magic items or something. By the way the party is 2 elven rangers, a human rogue, and me a darven defender so spells are out of the question.
Shaken, not Stunned
05-29-05, 11:28 PM Iron will is a good start. To a certain degree you will just have to deal with being vulnerabe to mind affecting affects. You could multi-class a couple of levels. Pick up some classes with good saves, like monk or ranger. Both are fighter-types with good will saves. It sounds you are doing a solid job playing the game. Don't worry about your little weaknesses, they are what define you as a character, not your strenghts.
Super Guy
05-29-05, 11:34 PM Rangers don't have good will saves...

Have Mind Blank cast on you as soon as you can.
Protection from Evil will stop domination from working. The domination effect will resume when Prot. from Evil has worn off. I think this is overpowered, personally, but eh.
Have the party wizard either dispel the effect on you or dominate you. I believe he must make a caster level check to oppose the opponent's domination, but if he succeeds you are under his control.

Edit: Wait, Dwarven Defender? I think dwarves have a +2 will save vs. enchantment.
Lord Schpungus
05-30-05, 12:47 AM not just enchantment, but all spells and spell-like abilities.
The Man from Uncle
05-30-05, 01:35 AM Basically its tough to avoid. You need spell casters on stand by that can either protect you before it happens or cure you quickly afterwards. A cloak of resistance might help a bit, and iron will. But its better to be prepared for this type of move from a good DM. I have lost 2 characters to a charmed/dominated fighter and been turned on a few more times. In fact, now i think about it, it was the same fighter each time.

Eventually the party started getting scared of him and kept their distance during any fight with something that might cast spells. One character of mine that he killed died in 1 round.

(my druid was shaped like a monkey and was sharing a small boat with the fighter when suddenly he started looming over me. I think i managed a single slightly scared Ook! before he plowed me open, threw me over the side and then started rowing for the bard and mage)
Kalli
05-30-05, 01:51 AM Charm Person shouldn't make you attack your allies -- defend your new buddy the BBEG, sure, but that'd be more along the lines of taking hits for the BBEG or trying to knock out or stop your allies -- not utterly turning against your comrades (unless I seriously misread the initial post). That's Dominate Person territory, which is also bad news. (This is why I tend not to use Int/Wis as 'dump stats' if I can help it when playing fighters, though one time I had an interesting 6 cha fighter...ah, but I digress.)

Anyway, to hopefully prevent such mishaps in the future, Iron Will is an option (and as a fighter you get gobs of feats anyway -- I think IW doesn't count for fighter bonus feats though). Also see if your party cleric/other spellcaster can cast spells such as Protection from Evil/Law/Chaos/Good (whatever alignment applies -- granted, if he's pure neutral, you're stuck) or if there's other magical means to protect against Will-save spells and effects.
Tytalus
05-30-05, 02:16 AM For this one, curcial, save that you really don't want to fail, consider the Cumbrous Will feat from Savage Species. +6 for a single will save, but you are shaken afterwards.
Shaken, not Stunned
05-30-05, 11:57 AM Rangers don't have good will saves...

Yea, my bad. I meant to say Druid. Good fighty-buffy class with a nature bent. Thanks for pointing that out.
Bael the Bard
05-30-05, 12:10 PM Well I think it was partially to a bad throw I rolled a 2 +4 for will save +2 for dwarf so an 8 for a dc of 18 or 19. I was trying to find out if the dm could have done that with charm person, cause it sounded like he was using it like dominate person. I'm like it says I become friendly towards him and percieve him as an ally, and the dms like well yeah these people are attacking your best friend defend him. I'm like it also says I don't follow suicidal orders, he's like is fighting 2 puny elves and a human suicidal, I'm like well not really he's like ok attack them.

This was really bad for them cause my dwarven defender has an ac of 32(10 base ac/+3 mithral full plate that gives +11 to ac/+2 mithral heavy shield +4 to ac/+3 for dex/+3 deflection for ring of prot +3/+1 for Dwarven defender) 33 with dodge and 37 with the stance. I have a +19 to hit with my dwarven waraxe and I do 1d10 +9 dmg (+2 axe/weapon specialization +2/+5 from str/BAB of 10 so +19/ I have greater weapon focus +2 dmg/+2 axe +2 dmg and a +5 dmg from str so a d10+9) I could have killed the whole party easily cause they had ac's of like 20 or so, and hp around 70 something. I'm sure that they could have hit me eventually but I have 129 hp, nearly twice as much as theirs, so I told them OOC to run you'll all get killed so they obliged.

I guess I can dump my next feat into iron will, or get a cloak of res, but what I'm really gonna aim for is to get one of the two rangers to switch over to a wizard. A party without a wizard or cleric is just asking for trouble. I played a fighter to get away from the magic aspect of dnd and just rely on brute str. And here I was defeated by a 1st lv spell, I feel demoralized that hurt my pride :weep: .
Fortebraccio
05-30-05, 12:23 PM An opposed Charisma check allows you to refrain from taking actions you wouldn't ordinarily take. Make sure your DM remembers about this clause.
Fortebraccio
05-30-05, 12:37 PM Another issue:

Charm person doesnt' change your attitude toward "former" allies: if ordered to defend the wizard, you could try to get away with a generic "aid another" action, but more realistically should attempt to interpose and talk your friends out of "this horrible misunderstanding", keeping non-lethal attacks as a last resort. I wonder why your DM didn't point this out.
20102000
05-30-05, 02:16 PM I wouldn't worry to much about it. You can try and improve the odds with the following
Iron will.
Cloak/armour of spell resistance.
Improve inititive, hit them before they hit you with the spell.
Ioun stones could be useful as well.
Horatius
05-30-05, 04:55 PM I think your DM is applying the spell incorrectly, and making it far too effective. It should be less powerful than Dominate Person or Hold Person.

From the SRD:

This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming.

Note that in almost all combat situations you would recieve the +5 bonus to save. Furthermore, I'd say that the worst you would do is use the Aid Another action to raise the wizard's AC while yelling 'Stop! Stop! Why are you fighting!?!' or grapple and pin one of the other PCs. As Fortebraccio pointed out, your attitude towards the other PCs does not change - you don't suddenly want to hurt them - they are likely just as important to you as the wizard. Also, unless you recieve specific instructions, you can still act as you wish to some extent. For example, if you were fighting a bunch of orcs (or whatever) and two of the other PCs started fighting, you'd probably finish off the Orcs before trying to break them up - so similarly, you'd probably kill off the wizard's minions before worrying about your the fight between your 'friends'. Finally, 'protect me' does not necessarily mean 'kill all those who attack me'. You could stand in front of the wizard and say 'Do not approach' or yell 'Let's get you out of here!' and run off with him over your shoulder.
Bael the Bard
05-30-05, 05:49 PM Your right I think my dm just didn't understand the spell completely, and tried to use it like dominate person. I'll ask him about it next time, cause if that was the case I would have just started bashing the shield guardian and try and protect the elf wizard. It should have been like this "Hey guys look a construct thing attacking us, don't even try and hit it with your bows you won't be able to do any damage. So don't worry about it I'll smash it you guys help out rendoneil and get him to safety." :D We probably would have gotten more exp and gold that way cause the dm reports what happened to the RPGA, and we get exp and gold based on what we did and what we defeated.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bael the Bard 05-29-05, 11:05 PM	Well I've been playing an 8th lv fighter/2 dwarven defender in an RPGA campaign with a 25 point buy system. I have an ok ac 33, I have a good str and bab, I deal ok damage 1d10 +9. So I can take about anything the dm throws at me, the only problem is I can't make will saves. I know this is partial due to having a low wis and being a fighter, but I still would like to know what can I do. Here was what happened we were about to fight a wizard that had a shield guardian, well I'm like a construct ha who cares I have an adamantine warhammer I'll just smash it. Then he casts charm person and I fail the will save, the dm's like you're now the BBEG's favorite buddy and these guys are trying to hurt him, your LG right, I'm like yeah so, ok defend him from these people around you, then I start attacking the party. I do 33 points of damage to the rogue, then the party runs away and the session ends. Its a RPGA type game so items reset after the session ends and we get exp and gold, on what we did during the game. What I want to know is, what can I do to prevent this from happening again, I mean it was funny but I don't want to kill the party cause I failed a save to a 1st lv spell. I know that I could get a cloak of res, or increase my wis, but is there any other way to protect myself from mind affecting spells, like magic items or something. By the way the party is 2 elven rangers, a human rogue, and me a darven defender so spells are out of the question.
Shaken, not Stunned 05-29-05, 11:28 PM	Iron will is a good start. To a certain degree you will just have to deal with being vulnerabe to mind affecting affects. You could multi-class a couple of levels. Pick up some classes with good saves, like monk or ranger. Both are fighter-types with good will saves. It sounds you are doing a solid job playing the game. Don't worry about your little weaknesses, they are what define you as a character, not your strenghts.
Super Guy 05-29-05, 11:34 PM	Rangers don't have good will saves... Have Mind Blank cast on you as soon as you can. Protection from Evil will stop domination from working. The domination effect will resume when Prot. from Evil has worn off. I think this is overpowered, personally, but eh. Have the party wizard either dispel the effect on you or dominate you. I believe he must make a caster level check to oppose the opponent's domination, but if he succeeds you are under his control. Edit: Wait, Dwarven Defender? I think dwarves have a +2 will save vs. enchantment.
Lord Schpungus 05-30-05, 12:47 AM	not just enchantment, but all spells and spell-like abilities.
The Man from Uncle 05-30-05, 01:35 AM	Basically its tough to avoid. You need spell casters on stand by that can either protect you before it happens or cure you quickly afterwards. A cloak of resistance might help a bit, and iron will. But its better to be prepared for this type of move from a good DM. I have lost 2 characters to a charmed/dominated fighter and been turned on a few more times. In fact, now i think about it, it was the same fighter each time. Eventually the party started getting scared of him and kept their distance during any fight with something that might cast spells. One character of mine that he killed died in 1 round. (my druid was shaped like a monkey and was sharing a small boat with the fighter when suddenly he started looming over me. I think i managed a single slightly scared Ook! before he plowed me open, threw me over the side and then started rowing for the bard and mage)
Kalli 05-30-05, 01:51 AM	Charm Person shouldn't make you attack your allies -- defend your new buddy the BBEG, sure, but that'd be more along the lines of taking hits for the BBEG or trying to knock out or stop your allies -- not utterly turning against your comrades (unless I seriously misread the initial post). That's Dominate Person territory, which is also bad news. (This is why I tend not to use Int/Wis as 'dump stats' if I can help it when playing fighters, though one time I had an interesting 6 cha fighter...ah, but I digress.) Anyway, to hopefully prevent such mishaps in the future, Iron Will is an option (and as a fighter you get gobs of feats anyway -- I think IW doesn't count for fighter bonus feats though). Also see if your party cleric/other spellcaster can cast spells such as Protection from Evil/Law/Chaos/Good (whatever alignment applies -- granted, if he's pure neutral, you're stuck) or if there's other magical means to protect against Will-save spells and effects.
Tytalus 05-30-05, 02:16 AM	For this one, curcial, save that you really don't want to fail, consider the Cumbrous Will feat from Savage Species. +6 for a single will save, but you are shaken afterwards.
Shaken, not Stunned 05-30-05, 11:57 AM	Rangers don't have good will saves... Yea, my bad. I meant to say Druid. Good fighty-buffy class with a nature bent. Thanks for pointing that out.
Bael the Bard 05-30-05, 12:10 PM	Well I think it was partially to a bad throw I rolled a 2 +4 for will save +2 for dwarf so an 8 for a dc of 18 or 19. I was trying to find out if the dm could have done that with charm person, cause it sounded like he was using it like dominate person. I'm like it says I become friendly towards him and percieve him as an ally, and the dms like well yeah these people are attacking your best friend defend him. I'm like it also says I don't follow suicidal orders, he's like is fighting 2 puny elves and a human suicidal, I'm like well not really he's like ok attack them. This was really bad for them cause my dwarven defender has an ac of 32(10 base ac/+3 mithral full plate that gives +11 to ac/+2 mithral heavy shield +4 to ac/+3 for dex/+3 deflection for ring of prot +3/+1 for Dwarven defender) 33 with dodge and 37 with the stance. I have a +19 to hit with my dwarven waraxe and I do 1d10 +9 dmg (+2 axe/weapon specialization +2/+5 from str/BAB of 10 so +19/ I have greater weapon focus +2 dmg/+2 axe +2 dmg and a +5 dmg from str so a d10+9) I could have killed the whole party easily cause they had ac's of like 20 or so, and hp around 70 something. I'm sure that they could have hit me eventually but I have 129 hp, nearly twice as much as theirs, so I told them OOC to run you'll all get killed so they obliged. I guess I can dump my next feat into iron will, or get a cloak of res, but what I'm really gonna aim for is to get one of the two rangers to switch over to a wizard. A party without a wizard or cleric is just asking for trouble. I played a fighter to get away from the magic aspect of dnd and just rely on brute str. And here I was defeated by a 1st lv spell, I feel demoralized that hurt my pride :weep: .
Fortebraccio 05-30-05, 12:23 PM	An opposed Charisma check allows you to refrain from taking actions you wouldn't ordinarily take. Make sure your DM remembers about this clause.
Fortebraccio 05-30-05, 12:37 PM	Another issue: Charm person doesnt' change your attitude toward "former" allies: if ordered to defend the wizard, you could try to get away with a generic "aid another" action, but more realistically should attempt to interpose and talk your friends out of "this horrible misunderstanding", keeping non-lethal attacks as a last resort. I wonder why your DM didn't point this out.
20102000 05-30-05, 02:16 PM	I wouldn't worry to much about it. You can try and improve the odds with the following Iron will. Cloak/armour of spell resistance. Improve inititive, hit them before they hit you with the spell. Ioun stones could be useful as well.
Horatius 05-30-05, 04:55 PM	I think your DM is applying the spell incorrectly, and making it far too effective. It should be less powerful than Dominate Person or Hold Person. From the SRD: This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw. The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming. Note that in almost all combat situations you would recieve the +5 bonus to save. Furthermore, I'd say that the worst you would do is use the Aid Another action to raise the wizard's AC while yelling 'Stop! Stop! Why are you fighting!?!' or grapple and pin one of the other PCs. As Fortebraccio pointed out, your attitude towards the other PCs does not change - you don't suddenly want to hurt them - they are likely just as important to you as the wizard. Also, unless you recieve specific instructions, you can still act as you wish to some extent. For example, if you were fighting a bunch of orcs (or whatever) and two of the other PCs started fighting, you'd probably finish off the Orcs before trying to break them up - so similarly, you'd probably kill off the wizard's minions before worrying about your the fight between your 'friends'. Finally, 'protect me' does not necessarily mean 'kill all those who attack me'. You could stand in front of the wizard and say 'Do not approach' or yell 'Let's get you out of here!' and run off with him over your shoulder.
Bael the Bard 05-30-05, 05:49 PM	Your right I think my dm just didn't understand the spell completely, and tried to use it like dominate person. I'll ask him about it next time, cause if that was the case I would have just started bashing the shield guardian and try and protect the elf wizard. It should have been like this "Hey guys look a construct thing attacking us, don't even try and hit it with your bows you won't be able to do any damage. So don't worry about it I'll smash it you guys help out rendoneil and get him to safety." :D We probably would have gotten more exp and gold that way cause the dm reports what happened to the RPGA, and we get exp and gold based on what we did and what we defeated.