Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tony Vargas 02-10-04, 03:11 PM	I've had this wierd charcter concept in the back of my mind since I first started reading the 3E rules... it was set off by reading the Bard's performance-inspiration powers, the bit under spellcraft about 'theoretical thaumaturges' (people with spellcraft, but no spells), and the expert class.... The character concept is Melthius the Sage. Melthius is a theoretical thaumaturgist, armchair adventurer and general know-it-all - and, (dare I use the words) 'motivational speaker.' The astounding thing about him is that all his backseat driving is actually /helpful/. If he actually uses magic at all, his aproach should be wizardly, but, his defining abilities are more bard-like. It occured to me you could take a bard, and switch his spellcasting abilities from sorcerer-like to wizard-like - but that would hardly be a simple solution... As an NPC, who wouldn't have to be generally useful, Melthius would be fine as an Expert. But, would it be possible to build him as a contributing member of a PC party, as a Bard/multiclass/PrC/somethingorother?
Nagol 02-10-04, 03:51 PM	The class is heavy on knowledge retrieval while very weak on adventuring abilities. It gets an ability similar to Bardic knowedge ability, the ability to extract information from libraries, and a class bonus on all trained knowledge skills. If you are interested, drop me a PM and I'll mail you a copy when I get home.
Krelios 02-10-04, 03:53 PM	Build him as a Wizard specialist in divination with PrC levels in Loremaster. You're done.
Tony Vargas 02-10-04, 05:19 PM	I'd love to see what the Sage PrC does. Thanks. .... The wizard-loremaster, though it would certainly have the desired knowledge-related abilities, would be a far more potent spellcaster than I had in mind. And, he wouldn't have the key ability of being able to make other characters better at what they're doing by haruanging them with unwanted advice... ;) ..... I know it's wierd going "well, I want to be sure to minimize my spellcasting abilities..." but, really, that's what I'm after. I'd be happy with no spellcasting, if I could find a way to get a Bard-like 'inspiration' ability, and all the requisite skills without them... But, AFAICT, Bard is the only way to go to get things like 'Inspire Courage" and "Inpire Competence" which are must-haves for the concept. But, the Bard's a moderately serious caster, and of course, sorcerer-like in casting ability. .... I don't know many suplemental PrCs or core classes - just what's in the basic books. So any suggestions for those would be fine - and, of course, if there's good core rules multiclassing options that might work, that'd be cool. ... I'd also listen to ideas for converting a Bard to a wiz-style arcanist... if it could be done in a simple, balanced way that I might actually be able to sell to a DM sometime. .... It doesn't matter if the resultant character is a bit weak - as long as he ould survive with a group of more serious adventurer for a while... and is useful enough that they'd refrain from killing him out of hand.
StormKnight 02-10-04, 05:27 PM	Is it kind of odd that this "odd" Sage concept that is hard to do is probably the most archetypical fictional wizard? Merlin, Gandalf - they weren't great and powerful because they ever zapped off fireballs, but because of their vast wisdom and cleverness.
wdarkk 02-11-04, 06:32 AM	There's a Virtuoso PrC in Song and Silence that can give a Wizard oratory abilities. If you can get your DM to let you take Cosmopolitan twice (or be a human), you can be a 7Wiz/1Virtuoso. Unfortunately, the feat requirement makes it difficult to go 7Wiz/1Virt/1Lore (although taking Lore before Virt makes it easier).
SiegeSage 02-11-04, 01:02 PM	Use Arcane Preparation and play a bard. Or don't bother with the feat and just "assign" your spells every day: declare that you have "memorized" spells x, y, and z - and even though you can OOC cast spontaneously, in character only cast the spells that you have "memorized". If the thing that bothers you about bardic spellcasting is the limit to spells known - then the only way around that is to homebrew, or to play 3.0 and go Wiz X/bard 1. In 3.0 the "bard song" abilities keyed only off of ranks in perform - it didn't matter your level of bard. Take loremaster as a PRC at 8th level and continue to gain the Lore ability that way. In this way you can have up to class level+3 ranks in bard skills - but every time you go up in wizard you have to pay to skill points per rank instead of one.
Tony Vargas 02-11-04, 04:07 PM	Arcane Prep is a good idea, it gives a little more of the right feel... Though I don't think he'll need to know a lot of spells, the option of knowing any number makes some sense as he's a 'theoretical thaumaturgist,' and needing INT and study to understand them really makes sense. Actually if he were perfectly to concept, he'd be able to occassionally prep and cast a spell, but never really get to 'know' any in the usual sense of being able to use it regularly without any trouble. Of course, this is may just be one of those things that is best done by mere player restraint: I just use the normal Bard, but don't cast spells often, and make a show of 'studying' to 'learn' them and having touble with the actual aplication... not satisfying, but it could work.