Help designing a character with wierd rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help designing a character with wierd rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
snakeman830
10-07-07, 06:14 PM First, I figure the character concept would be important. The character doesn't use any melee weapons, instead shield-bashing. The premise of this character is a defense that hurts those who test it.

Second come the rules:

LA buyoff is in effect
Gestalt classes are allowed, but can make up no more than 50% of your class levels.
Low magic: Nothing with higher than a +4 total bonus
NPC wealth for starting
No primary casters or manifesters. Clerics are the exception, but are limited to 5 levels. Bards and Psychic Warriors are not considered primaries and are therefore allowed.
Custom magic items are allowed, but must be okayed by the DM.
Allowed Books include all core, SRD, MMIV, Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior, XPH, MIC, Drow of the Underdark, and Frostburn. I can probably borrow Dieties and Demigods (I am right now), Races of Dragon, BoED, BoVD, Complete Arcane, Arms & Equipment Guide, Spell Compendeminium, and a few others I can't remember (I also have the Knight class and the raptoran and warforged races printed out). NO Tome Of Battle. (nobody has it)
Levels 10-15
Any race allowed, but must be okayed

Third, I have two ideas on how to do this, though suggestions are appriciated. Keep in mind I am not looking for an optimized character, but one that pulls off the character concept well.

1. A chakat (see here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=812068) for the racial stats) gestalt Psy-War (tossing around fighter or knight for the other half) 3/ Whatever 3. Focuses on using the shield to it's best.

2. A dwarf gestalt Psywar/(Knight or Fighter) 5, Psy-War/War Mind 2, War Mind 1, Dwarven Defender 7. Focuses on having high DR/- (housrule saying like DR from different sources stack, will have DR 9/- with admantine fullplate, Heavy Armor specilization, and class levels)

Both builds will use a bashing Heavy Spiked Shield and will have the Improved Shiled Bash and Parrying Shield (Lords of Madness, much better than Shield Ward) feats. Armor for both will be spiked.

I suppose I should also mention that this will be my first character that actually uses heavy armor. I usually run a light/no armor character.
DrMorganes
10-07-07, 07:00 PM o.O

I suggest you take this to the Character Optimization board. As they say, if it ain't broke, the CharOp board hasn't seen it yet. ;)

I'm not even sure how you'd make a character that has 50% of its levels gestalt... The dwarf you describe is approximately a Level 22 character: 5 Levels of PsyWar, 5 Levels of (knight or fighter), 2 more levels of PsyWar, 2 levels of Warmind, 1 MORE level of Warmind, and 7 levels of Dwarven Defender.
snakeman830
10-07-07, 08:51 PM Third, I have two ideas on how to do this, though suggestions are appriciated. Keep in mind I am not looking for an optimized character, but one that pulls off the character concept well.

o.O

I suggest you take this to the Character Optimization board. As they say, if it ain't broke, the CharOp board hasn't seen it yet. ;)

I'm not even sure how you'd make a character that has 50% of its levels gestalt... The dwarf you describe is approximately a Level 22 character: 5 Levels of PsyWar, 5 Levels of (knight or fighter), 2 more levels of PsyWar, 2 levels of Warmind, 1 MORE level of Warmind, and 7 levels of Dwarven Defender.

This is why I'm not taking it to the Char Op boards. Broken is not what I want (in this case).

Oh, and if you want a better idea on the "using the shield to its best", then I suggest you watch this (http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=57998) and watch what they do with the Jackels' shields.
Prator_the_Legendary
10-07-07, 09:11 PM ...What they did with the shields in that film is so far over the top that I don't think most of it is represented in DnD rules.

Also, I deny any accusations of feminimity on the part of Master Chief.

On topic, I think your #2 idea has more merit overall. You may also want to consider getting a spiked buckler as a secondary weapon. Is it possible you could use the PHB II? That book had some more shield-fighting feats in it...
ImpossiblitiesAreEndless
10-08-07, 01:32 AM Maybe Karmic Strike from Complete Warrior could be fun. Lets ya hit back if they hit you some which sounds like 'a defense that hurts those who test it'
Entropy_Judge
10-08-07, 04:40 AM Oh, and if you want a better idea on the "using the shield to its best", then I suggest you watch this (http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=57998) and watch what they do with the Jackels' shields.

"That" was Final Fantasy: Mortal Kombat with Neo and Agent Smith as playable characters, or I'm a paraplegic wombat.
indeterminate
10-08-07, 04:14 PM 2. A dwarf gestalt Psywar/(Knight or Fighter) 5, Psy-War/War Mind 2, War Mind 1, Dwarven Defender 7. Focuses on having high DR/- (housrule saying like DR from different sources stack, will have DR 9/- with admantine fullplate, Heavy Armor specilization, and class levels)

Both builds will use a bashing Heavy Spiked Shield and will have the Improved Shiled Bash and Parrying Shield (Lords of Madness, much better than Shield Ward) feats. Armor for both will be spiked.

If you can use Races of Stone this would be the way to go. Make the character a half-giant and buy off the single LA it comes with then make your first 5 levels Psy-War 5/(Fighter or Knight 2/Stoneblessed 3). This lets you count as a dwarf so you can go into dwarven defender in addition to getting +2 to Con. Also you can grab the Heavy Armor Optimization and Deflective Armor feats to shore up your defenses against touch attacks. Might be worth it to take 2 more levels of War Mind in place of Dwarven Defender in order to get sweeping strikes.
snakeman830
10-08-07, 07:40 PM If you can use Races of Stone this would be the way to go. Make the character a half-giant and buy off the single LA it comes with then make your first 5 levels Psy-War 5/(Fighter or Knight 2/Stoneblessed 3). This lets you count as a dwarf so you can go into dwarven defender in addition to getting +2 to Con. Also you can grab the Heavy Armor Optimization and Deflective Armor feats to shore up your defenses against touch attacks. Might be worth it to take 2 more levels of War Mind in place of Dwarven Defender in order to get sweeping strikes.

I'll see if my friend has that. I've never looked in that book.

Yeah, I had a third idea that used Half-giant, but not well thought out, so I didn't post it.

I was also looking more in the way of feats/items to help the character, not just race/class.

As for the film, I was talking more about the part where the spartan was using the shield in melee, not ricocheting shots off of multiples.

And that wasn't Master Chief. It was another Spartan (some of them were female, and that one's probably Kelly).
Cartigan
10-08-07, 08:11 PM This is why I'm not taking it to the Char Op boards. Broken is not what I want (in this case).

Oh, and if you want a better idea on the "using the shield to its best", then I suggest you watch this (http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=57998) and watch what they do with the Jackels' shields.
I don't know what that movie is but the combination of pop culture at about 50000x normal speed gave me a migraine.
metalmayhem80110
10-09-07, 07:44 PM Ummm, just make an item. "Exoctic Beating Shield" and give it a damage value. Just modify a tower shield or something, make it require a feat or 2 to use. And you've got yourself a shield basher :D
DrMorganes
10-10-07, 12:22 PM This is why I'm not taking it to the Char Op boards. Broken is not what I want (in this case).

In the immortal words of Foghorn Leghorn:

It was a joke, son. Ya missed it. ;)

I simply meant that the CharOp guys are the ones to ask when faced with odd restrictions and strange character concepts. Not everything they produce is unusably broken. I doubt what they would suggest would be any worse than mixing gestalt and non-gestalt levels in the same character, and running that character in a non-gestalt game...
snakeman830
10-11-07, 11:46 AM In the immortal words of Foghorn Leghorn:

If I read this last night and we were face to face, you would have ended up with a knife beween your ribs.

Today, I'm in a much better mood.

I simply meant that the CharOp guys are the ones to ask when faced with odd restrictions and strange character concepts. Not everything they produce is unusably broken. I doubt what they would suggest would be any worse than mixing gestalt and non-gestalt levels in the same character, and running that character in a non-gestalt game...

So, that's what you meant. Yeah, perhaps that would be a good idea.

Oh, and the game is gestalt (well, 50% gestalt, anyway)
Nephlite
10-11-07, 04:34 PM First, I figure the character concept would be important. The character doesn't use any melee weapons, instead shield-bashing. The premise of this character is a defense that hurts those who test it.

Both builds will use a bashing Heavy Spiked Shield and will have the Improved Shiled Bash and Parrying Shield (Lords of Madness, much better than Shield Ward) feats. Armor for both will be spiked.

I suppose I should also mention that this will be my first character that actually uses heavy armor. I usually run a light/no armor character.

So, you want a shieldbasher. And armor spikes?
Callix
10-11-07, 05:02 PM While the Con boost looks nice, Dwarven Defender is a melee trap. You can't move while using Defensive Stance, so the enemy can either run away and come back in a minute, or pull out their polearms (or use their natural reach) and kill you from out of your reach. I'd recommend more Warmind or Psywar levels. Also, splitting your manifester level is not a good idea in general, although Warmind could be worth it.

Good feats for shield bashing are mostly in the PHBII, but Psionic Weapon -> Deep Impact is a tried-and-true psionic melee feat chain. PHBII also includes feats like Shield Specialisation and Shield Ward.

It's a pity none of you have ToB, since Crusader can do this beautifully. Still, you can't, so I've put in what I can.
snakeman830
10-11-07, 09:32 PM Dwarven Defender isn't a trap in this case. The defensive stance wouldn't be used much (I hate lack of mobility). Once I get the Immovability power, I'll use them in tandem for an additional DR 15/-- and the nice bonuses of the stance. I just took it for the inherent dodge bonus, Uncanny Dodge (and the Improved version) and the damage reduction.

If you don't use the stance, the PrC has a lot of nice goodies.

I also have a printout of the PHB2 feat list. So yes, some of them are being used.
snakeman830
10-11-07, 09:54 PM This just in: my homebrew PrC was just approved for use.

Defense Master
HD: D10

Requirements:
Proficiency with shields, proficency with any type of armor, BAB +6

Feats: Improved Shield Bash, Two Weapon Fighting, Shield Specilization

Level B.A.B. Fort Ref Will
1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Multi-shield
2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Unemcumbered Movement, Exceptional Deflection
3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Lessened Armor Check Penalty
4 +4 +4 +1 +1 Improved Movement
5 +5 +4 +1 +1 Armor Combination

Multi-shield: A Defense Master isn't called that for nothing. Unlike other characters, a shield bonuses to AC do stack for a Defense Master. For example, if a Defense Master was wearing two bucklers, he would add +2 to AC instead of the normal +1.

Unencumbered Movement: At second level, a Defense Master may move at his or her normal speed in medium or heavy armor.

Exceptional Deflection (Ex): At second level, a Defense Master using a shield can deflect ranged attacks once per day. Any sort of ranged attack can be deflected; even spell effects. However, extremely large projectiles (such as boulders and catapult ammunition) cannot be deflected.

Lessened Armor Check Penalty: At 3rd level, the Defense Master has become more capable with armor and shields. He now applys only half the normal Armor Check Penalty to the related skill checks (rounded down)

Improved Movement(Ex): By 4th level, the Defense Master has learned how to get the most out of their armor. They now treat the Maximum Dexterity bonus of their armor (and if applicable, shields) as 2 higher.

Armor Combination: Upon attaining 5th level, the Defense Master has learned so much about wearing armor, he has now learned how to wear two sets at once. A defense Master with this ability can simultaneously wear a set of light and a set of medium armor. Both armor bonuses stack and the lowest Maximum Dexterity bonus is applied. Both Armor Check Penalties stack as well and the arcane spell failure chance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
snakeman830 10-07-07, 06:14 PM	First, I figure the character concept would be important. The character doesn't use any melee weapons, instead shield-bashing. The premise of this character is a defense that hurts those who test it. Second come the rules: LA buyoff is in effect Gestalt classes are allowed, but can make up no more than 50% of your class levels. Low magic: Nothing with higher than a +4 total bonus NPC wealth for starting No primary casters or manifesters. Clerics are the exception, but are limited to 5 levels. Bards and Psychic Warriors are not considered primaries and are therefore allowed. Custom magic items are allowed, but must be okayed by the DM. Allowed Books include all core, SRD, MMIV, Complete Adventurer, Complete Warrior, XPH, MIC, Drow of the Underdark, and Frostburn. I can probably borrow Dieties and Demigods (I am right now), Races of Dragon, BoED, BoVD, Complete Arcane, Arms & Equipment Guide, Spell Compendeminium, and a few others I can't remember (I also have the Knight class and the raptoran and warforged races printed out). NO Tome Of Battle. (nobody has it) Levels 10-15 Any race allowed, but must be okayed Third, I have two ideas on how to do this, though suggestions are appriciated. Keep in mind I am not looking for an optimized character, but one that pulls off the character concept well. 1. A chakat (see here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=812068) for the racial stats) gestalt Psy-War (tossing around fighter or knight for the other half) 3/ Whatever 3. Focuses on using the shield to it's best. 2. A dwarf gestalt Psywar/(Knight or Fighter) 5, Psy-War/War Mind 2, War Mind 1, Dwarven Defender 7. Focuses on having high DR/- (housrule saying like DR from different sources stack, will have DR 9/- with admantine fullplate, Heavy Armor specilization, and class levels) Both builds will use a bashing Heavy Spiked Shield and will have the Improved Shiled Bash and Parrying Shield (Lords of Madness, much better than Shield Ward) feats. Armor for both will be spiked. I suppose I should also mention that this will be my first character that actually uses heavy armor. I usually run a light/no armor character.
DrMorganes 10-07-07, 07:00 PM	o.O I suggest you take this to the Character Optimization board. As they say, if it ain't broke, the CharOp board hasn't seen it yet. ;) I'm not even sure how you'd make a character that has 50% of its levels gestalt... The dwarf you describe is approximately a Level 22 character: 5 Levels of PsyWar, 5 Levels of (knight or fighter), 2 more levels of PsyWar, 2 levels of Warmind, 1 MORE level of Warmind, and 7 levels of Dwarven Defender.
snakeman830 10-07-07, 08:51 PM	Third, I have two ideas on how to do this, though suggestions are appriciated. Keep in mind I am not looking for an optimized character, but one that pulls off the character concept well. o.O I suggest you take this to the Character Optimization board. As they say, if it ain't broke, the CharOp board hasn't seen it yet. ;) I'm not even sure how you'd make a character that has 50% of its levels gestalt... The dwarf you describe is approximately a Level 22 character: 5 Levels of PsyWar, 5 Levels of (knight or fighter), 2 more levels of PsyWar, 2 levels of Warmind, 1 MORE level of Warmind, and 7 levels of Dwarven Defender. This is why I'm not taking it to the Char Op boards. Broken is not what I want (in this case). Oh, and if you want a better idea on the "using the shield to its best", then I suggest you watch this (http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=57998) and watch what they do with the Jackels' shields.
Prator_the_Legendary 10-07-07, 09:11 PM	...What they did with the shields in that film is so far over the top that I don't think most of it is represented in DnD rules. Also, I deny any accusations of feminimity on the part of Master Chief. On topic, I think your #2 idea has more merit overall. You may also want to consider getting a spiked buckler as a secondary weapon. Is it possible you could use the PHB II? That book had some more shield-fighting feats in it...
ImpossiblitiesAreEndless 10-08-07, 01:32 AM	Maybe Karmic Strike from Complete Warrior could be fun. Lets ya hit back if they hit you some which sounds like 'a defense that hurts those who test it'
Entropy_Judge 10-08-07, 04:40 AM	Oh, and if you want a better idea on the "using the shield to its best", then I suggest you watch this (http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=57998) and watch what they do with the Jackels' shields. "That" was Final Fantasy: Mortal Kombat with Neo and Agent Smith as playable characters, or I'm a paraplegic wombat.
indeterminate 10-08-07, 04:14 PM	2. A dwarf gestalt Psywar/(Knight or Fighter) 5, Psy-War/War Mind 2, War Mind 1, Dwarven Defender 7. Focuses on having high DR/- (housrule saying like DR from different sources stack, will have DR 9/- with admantine fullplate, Heavy Armor specilization, and class levels) Both builds will use a bashing Heavy Spiked Shield and will have the Improved Shiled Bash and Parrying Shield (Lords of Madness, much better than Shield Ward) feats. Armor for both will be spiked. If you can use Races of Stone this would be the way to go. Make the character a half-giant and buy off the single LA it comes with then make your first 5 levels Psy-War 5/(Fighter or Knight 2/Stoneblessed 3). This lets you count as a dwarf so you can go into dwarven defender in addition to getting +2 to Con. Also you can grab the Heavy Armor Optimization and Deflective Armor feats to shore up your defenses against touch attacks. Might be worth it to take 2 more levels of War Mind in place of Dwarven Defender in order to get sweeping strikes.
snakeman830 10-08-07, 07:40 PM	If you can use Races of Stone this would be the way to go. Make the character a half-giant and buy off the single LA it comes with then make your first 5 levels Psy-War 5/(Fighter or Knight 2/Stoneblessed 3). This lets you count as a dwarf so you can go into dwarven defender in addition to getting +2 to Con. Also you can grab the Heavy Armor Optimization and Deflective Armor feats to shore up your defenses against touch attacks. Might be worth it to take 2 more levels of War Mind in place of Dwarven Defender in order to get sweeping strikes. I'll see if my friend has that. I've never looked in that book. Yeah, I had a third idea that used Half-giant, but not well thought out, so I didn't post it. I was also looking more in the way of feats/items to help the character, not just race/class. As for the film, I was talking more about the part where the spartan was using the shield in melee, not ricocheting shots off of multiples. And that wasn't Master Chief. It was another Spartan (some of them were female, and that one's probably Kelly).
Cartigan 10-08-07, 08:11 PM	This is why I'm not taking it to the Char Op boards. Broken is not what I want (in this case). Oh, and if you want a better idea on the "using the shield to its best", then I suggest you watch this (http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=57998) and watch what they do with the Jackels' shields. I don't know what that movie is but the combination of pop culture at about 50000x normal speed gave me a migraine.
metalmayhem80110 10-09-07, 07:44 PM	Ummm, just make an item. "Exoctic Beating Shield" and give it a damage value. Just modify a tower shield or something, make it require a feat or 2 to use. And you've got yourself a shield basher :D
DrMorganes 10-10-07, 12:22 PM	This is why I'm not taking it to the Char Op boards. Broken is not what I want (in this case). In the immortal words of Foghorn Leghorn: It was a joke, son. Ya missed it. ;) I simply meant that the CharOp guys are the ones to ask when faced with odd restrictions and strange character concepts. Not everything they produce is unusably broken. I doubt what they would suggest would be any worse than mixing gestalt and non-gestalt levels in the same character, and running that character in a non-gestalt game...
snakeman830 10-11-07, 11:46 AM	In the immortal words of Foghorn Leghorn: If I read this last night and we were face to face, you would have ended up with a knife beween your ribs. Today, I'm in a much better mood. I simply meant that the CharOp guys are the ones to ask when faced with odd restrictions and strange character concepts. Not everything they produce is unusably broken. I doubt what they would suggest would be any worse than mixing gestalt and non-gestalt levels in the same character, and running that character in a non-gestalt game... So, that's what you meant. Yeah, perhaps that would be a good idea. Oh, and the game is gestalt (well, 50% gestalt, anyway)
Nephlite 10-11-07, 04:34 PM	First, I figure the character concept would be important. The character doesn't use any melee weapons, instead shield-bashing. The premise of this character is a defense that hurts those who test it. Both builds will use a bashing Heavy Spiked Shield and will have the Improved Shiled Bash and Parrying Shield (Lords of Madness, much better than Shield Ward) feats. Armor for both will be spiked. I suppose I should also mention that this will be my first character that actually uses heavy armor. I usually run a light/no armor character. So, you want a shieldbasher. And armor spikes?
Callix 10-11-07, 05:02 PM	While the Con boost looks nice, Dwarven Defender is a melee trap. You can't move while using Defensive Stance, so the enemy can either run away and come back in a minute, or pull out their polearms (or use their natural reach) and kill you from out of your reach. I'd recommend more Warmind or Psywar levels. Also, splitting your manifester level is not a good idea in general, although Warmind could be worth it. Good feats for shield bashing are mostly in the PHBII, but Psionic Weapon -> Deep Impact is a tried-and-true psionic melee feat chain. PHBII also includes feats like Shield Specialisation and Shield Ward. It's a pity none of you have ToB, since Crusader can do this beautifully. Still, you can't, so I've put in what I can.
snakeman830 10-11-07, 09:32 PM	Dwarven Defender isn't a trap in this case. The defensive stance wouldn't be used much (I hate lack of mobility). Once I get the Immovability power, I'll use them in tandem for an additional DR 15/-- and the nice bonuses of the stance. I just took it for the inherent dodge bonus, Uncanny Dodge (and the Improved version) and the damage reduction. If you don't use the stance, the PrC has a lot of nice goodies. I also have a printout of the PHB2 feat list. So yes, some of them are being used.
snakeman830 10-11-07, 09:54 PM	This just in: my homebrew PrC was just approved for use. Defense Master HD: D10 Requirements: Proficiency with shields, proficency with any type of armor, BAB +6 Feats: Improved Shield Bash, Two Weapon Fighting, Shield Specilization Level B.A.B. Fort Ref Will 1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Multi-shield 2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Unemcumbered Movement, Exceptional Deflection 3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Lessened Armor Check Penalty 4 +4 +4 +1 +1 Improved Movement 5 +5 +4 +1 +1 Armor Combination Multi-shield: A Defense Master isn't called that for nothing. Unlike other characters, a shield bonuses to AC do stack for a Defense Master. For example, if a Defense Master was wearing two bucklers, he would add +2 to AC instead of the normal +1. Unencumbered Movement: At second level, a Defense Master may move at his or her normal speed in medium or heavy armor. Exceptional Deflection (Ex): At second level, a Defense Master using a shield can deflect ranged attacks once per day. Any sort of ranged attack can be deflected; even spell effects. However, extremely large projectiles (such as boulders and catapult ammunition) cannot be deflected. Lessened Armor Check Penalty: At 3rd level, the Defense Master has become more capable with armor and shields. He now applys only half the normal Armor Check Penalty to the related skill checks (rounded down) Improved Movement(Ex): By 4th level, the Defense Master has learned how to get the most out of their armor. They now treat the Maximum Dexterity bonus of their armor (and if applicable, shields) as 2 higher. Armor Combination: Upon attaining 5th level, the Defense Master has learned so much about wearing armor, he has now learned how to wear two sets at once. A defense Master with this ability can simultaneously wear a set of light and a set of medium armor. Both armor bonuses stack and the lowest Maximum Dexterity bonus is applied. Both Armor Check Penalties stack as well and the arcane spell failure chance.