Help! DM abandoning campaign for another game! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help! DM abandoning campaign for another game! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tonio
04-04-07, 06:17 PM My DM recently got interested in playing MERP (Middle-Earth Role Playing game) again, and last time we talked, he let me know I shouldn't bother rolling up a new character (mine died last session), since we'd most probably not be playing D&D anymore, in favor of MERP.

Thing is, I seriously dislike MERP: the magic system sucks, combat is excessively realistic (in all probability, you end up seriously hurt and with long-term disadvantages after a simple fight), and the system favors certain race/class combos blatantly (Rohirrim warriors are godly, for example). The setting is obviously not a problem... but I really don't want to spend 80% of the time operating at 30% efficiency in EVERY sense just because I had a scuffle with a couple of orcs (yes, you get torn ligaments and internal injuries that give you nasty stuff like "-50 to all activity for 3 months").

But regardless of how much I dislike MERP, I was REALLY enjoying our D&D campaign, and I know for a fact everybody else was. Out DM isn't abandoning it because he didn't enjoy it anymore, but because he's always loved the MERP system and is all excited about it.

Volunteering to DM for D&D in parallel with the MERP campaign is a no-go: I'm a terrible, terrible DM. Suggesting we play D&D in a Middle-Earth setting also won't work: what he likes is the MERP system. Flattery (as in praising his DM skills) won't work, since it won't be anything new... he knows he's a kickass DM, we tell him all the time.

Any ideas?
LeuktheSavior
04-04-07, 06:20 PM get your players together and tell him that you wont play MERP. if your entire group feels the same way about MERP, just tell him you wont participate.
_SIN_
04-04-07, 06:22 PM Why don't you all talk to him together to voice your opinions.
Tonio
04-04-07, 06:23 PM get your players together and tell him that you wont play MERP. if your entire group feels the same way about MERP, just tell him you wont participate.

Well, to be honest, I'd rather play MERP than not play anything at all. At worst, it's an excuse to hang out with 'em. And yeah, they all like MERP a lot, too.

Thing is, I'm not in a D&D group where we all know each other because we game together. We've been friends since highschool (earlier for some of them), and we just all like RPGs, too. So "looking for another gaming group" isn't really an option. And I've already told 'em I don't like MERP (something which they've known since we first played it, years ago).
LadyAlaria
04-04-07, 07:32 PM Well, you have a choice . . .

You could go your separate ways. But game flavor seems like a pretty minor justification for separating yourself from your friends. Save this choice for more important arguments, like, "Who's hotter, Ginger or Mary Ann?"

You could stay with them and "play along to get along". Eventually they might get tired of your moping and decide to go back to DnD just to stop the sobbing.

Or you could try to figure out why everyone else *likes* MERP, and learn to enjoy the game yourself. You choose to look at the wounding rules in MERP as impinging on your fun. Your friends look at them as part of the challenge to overcome. Talk to your friends about why they like MERP, and then try to apply that to your own perception of the game. (It may help to forget that you ever played DnD or any other game. Abandon your preconceptions of what a FRP game should be like.)
Sarrazon
04-04-07, 07:49 PM "Who's uglier, Mialee or Mialee?"
Fixt.

About the problem, sit down with your DM, and the rest of the players, and just talk about this, and get everyones opinion. The rest of the players will probably want to finish the campaign before starting a new one.
Magrus
04-04-07, 07:57 PM I have to say, I'm a DM that wants to try a setting my players won't bother trying. Not because of the setting, or they system, but because of what they've heard of it. Given that I work all of my games out to be something that they want, every game, it is a bit irksome. They know I DM well, and they know I'm fair, and they know I put work into every game I run, for them. Giving something a shot wouldn't kill them, yet they outright refuse to do so.

I would suggest telling your DM/Buddy that you think there are flaws in the system, but you trust him that he'll work out kinks if they come up if you at least try the system. See what he says. He might be so grateful you are willing to try what he wants for a change, something he will enjoy putting his time and effort into, he may later be more agreeable to work out the kinks that make you dislike the system. He may not, but it's worth a shot, right?

Then again, there are things I just don't dig, and don't want to be bothered with. So there is a flip-side with that too.
Bruunwald
04-04-07, 07:59 PM There's nothing you could or should do about this.

I am sure plenty of people here are going to tell you to "vote with your feet," or "DM yourself." You have already nixed the latter, and I am afraid the former is irrelevant.

Look, you can vote with your feet, and you should, since you don't like the system your DM is moving to.

But the more important issue is that your DM is a person, too, and has as much right to want to play whatever system he likes as any of you. There is a general myth among many players that the DM is some kind of servant, tied to a system approved of by his players, with no rights but those of a slave, or at least, that he should remain coersible or bulliable to all the desires of the group.

Not so. Your DM is a human being with a right to do what he wants, and to find a group that wants to share the experience. Just like you.
Sarrazon
04-04-07, 08:00 PM Note. the OP said he'd played the system with them before.

And I've already told 'em I don't like MERP (something which they've known since we first played it, years ago).
Krusk
04-04-07, 08:04 PM I say give it a shot for a session or two, you dont like it and if none of the other players do either the dm will pick up on this, and do his best to make it fun again. Eventually after a couple of sessions i see you guys back to DND.
Azezel
04-04-07, 08:46 PM These chaps are your friends, right? Good. Excellent - they probably like you then, they want you to be happy. But you're not joined at the hip.

Tell them you don't like MERP (and who can blame you??? Wound penalties are a game challenge to overcome in the same way that having your feet amputated is an ice-skating challenge to overcome) but that you like them. Let them play MERP, have their fun - when the campaign is over and they start using some other system, come back.

The exact same thing happened to me once - the group decided they wanted to play an Evil campaign - I said that I had no interest participating in that, so I didn't. Then, later when the group was done with the evil game, I came back - everyone wins.

I used the time to write a campaign - You say you're not a good DM, well, you now have a couple of hours free each week to become a good DM.
LeuktheSavior
04-04-07, 09:21 PM then sabotage the game in a way that is still fun. Play a traitor, and systematically kill off your fellow players, and pump skills into bluff (if its anything like dnd, im a white-wolf and dnd kid so i dont know much about MERP) so you can convince them that their death was a freak accident. chances are you'll be found and probably killed early on, but it'll be a good experience. and with rules where you take -50 for damaged tendons, you could just hamstring everyone while they sleep and leave them for the wolves, and end the campaign just like that. I knwo as a DM it would be frustrating, but i would allow it if only because i enjoy ingenuity and conflict
Krusk
04-04-07, 11:05 PM /\ do not do that, your friends will hate you and probably not invite you back.
RetiredThief
04-04-07, 11:36 PM If you insist that he DM's all the time, I think it's reasonable for him to DM something HE'D like once in a while.

Look at it this way: DMing's hard work (compared to playing.) And sounds like he has no choice because no one else in his group can, or is willing to, DM. And now you think he should only DM what YOU like to play?

I think HE should walk. Or demand pay for his services.
wizarddog
04-05-07, 01:57 AM Challenge yourself by creating a character in MERP that is totally opposite what you play in DnD or have played. If he/she dies it won't be a big deal but you will have had the experience playing a different character and you won't have any vested interest in him/her.

Chances are, if you put the effort on character idea/concept, you will enjoy the game more and ignore the mechanics.;)

wizarddog
Tonio
04-05-07, 06:20 AM A) creating a character different from what I normally play is hardly an option, since I've (at least recently) gravitated towards warrior-types, and MERP is HEAVILY geared towards warrior types (basically the only other viable option is the "scout", the D&D rogue analgogue, and he's a second to the warrior... all others are casters and therefore distant thirds to warriors and scouts)

B) my D&D DM isn't DM'ing (well, GM'ing) this MERP campaign... he's being a player here. Another guy, who just happens to ALSO be an excellent DM/GM, will be GM'ing this campaign (yes, we're blessed with two very excellent DM/GMs).

C) problem is officially solved. Tonight we got together, heavily hit a couple of bottles of rum (this is Puerto Rico, rum is GOOD here, not that yucky "Bacardi" or weak "Captain Morgan" you get over there), and I got seriosuly accused of "not knowing how to play" (it was made clear I wasn't accused of not knowing the system, either system, but rather being unexperienced... nevermind the fact that I have nearly 20 years of RPG experience, all that mattered was the fact tha they had 2-4 more years than I have), so I yielded and decided I should not play. Sure, that's not what they wanted... they just wanted to reverse-psychologize me into wanting to play MERP, but since reverse psychology has been traditionally countereffective in my case, I sorta just happened to go the other way. The campaign is now composed of one GM, one experienced player, one total newbie (who also happens not to like RPGs, just plays to hang out with friends), and a possible, very irregular, I'll-maybe-show-up-once-every-seven-sessions third. Let's see how it goes for 'em.

I'll gladly accept any and all criticisms on my playstyle, knowledge of the rules, rightness or wrongness of my opinions, or just about anything else, but being accused of something that's plainly and blatantly untrue, especially in the face of obvious facts, tends to sort of irk me.

*shrug*

Then again, I'm quite drunk, and I might think otherwise tomorrow... but god I hope not. I try to make a point of not stepping on anybody, and I'm sure as hell not gonna be stepped on.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tonio 04-04-07, 06:17 PM	My DM recently got interested in playing MERP (Middle-Earth Role Playing game) again, and last time we talked, he let me know I shouldn't bother rolling up a new character (mine died last session), since we'd most probably not be playing D&D anymore, in favor of MERP. Thing is, I seriously dislike MERP: the magic system sucks, combat is excessively realistic (in all probability, you end up seriously hurt and with long-term disadvantages after a simple fight), and the system favors certain race/class combos blatantly (Rohirrim warriors are godly, for example). The setting is obviously not a problem... but I really don't want to spend 80% of the time operating at 30% efficiency in EVERY sense just because I had a scuffle with a couple of orcs (yes, you get torn ligaments and internal injuries that give you nasty stuff like "-50 to all activity for 3 months"). But regardless of how much I dislike MERP, I was REALLY enjoying our D&D campaign, and I know for a fact everybody else was. Out DM isn't abandoning it because he didn't enjoy it anymore, but because he's always loved the MERP system and is all excited about it. Volunteering to DM for D&D in parallel with the MERP campaign is a no-go: I'm a terrible, terrible DM. Suggesting we play D&D in a Middle-Earth setting also won't work: what he likes is the MERP system. Flattery (as in praising his DM skills) won't work, since it won't be anything new... he knows he's a kickass DM, we tell him all the time. Any ideas?
LeuktheSavior 04-04-07, 06:20 PM	get your players together and tell him that you wont play MERP. if your entire group feels the same way about MERP, just tell him you wont participate.
_SIN_ 04-04-07, 06:22 PM	Why don't you all talk to him together to voice your opinions.
Tonio 04-04-07, 06:23 PM	get your players together and tell him that you wont play MERP. if your entire group feels the same way about MERP, just tell him you wont participate. Well, to be honest, I'd rather play MERP than not play anything at all. At worst, it's an excuse to hang out with 'em. And yeah, they all like MERP a lot, too. Thing is, I'm not in a D&D group where we all know each other because we game together. We've been friends since highschool (earlier for some of them), and we just all like RPGs, too. So "looking for another gaming group" isn't really an option. And I've already told 'em I don't like MERP (something which they've known since we first played it, years ago).
LadyAlaria 04-04-07, 07:32 PM	Well, you have a choice . . . You could go your separate ways. But game flavor seems like a pretty minor justification for separating yourself from your friends. Save this choice for more important arguments, like, "Who's hotter, Ginger or Mary Ann?" You could stay with them and "play along to get along". Eventually they might get tired of your moping and decide to go back to DnD just to stop the sobbing. Or you could try to figure out why everyone else likes MERP, and learn to enjoy the game yourself. You choose to look at the wounding rules in MERP as impinging on your fun. Your friends look at them as part of the challenge to overcome. Talk to your friends about why they like MERP, and then try to apply that to your own perception of the game. (It may help to forget that you ever played DnD or any other game. Abandon your preconceptions of what a FRP game should be like.)
Sarrazon 04-04-07, 07:49 PM	"Who's uglier, Mialee or Mialee?" Fixt. About the problem, sit down with your DM, and the rest of the players, and just talk about this, and get everyones opinion. The rest of the players will probably want to finish the campaign before starting a new one.
Magrus 04-04-07, 07:57 PM	I have to say, I'm a DM that wants to try a setting my players won't bother trying. Not because of the setting, or they system, but because of what they've heard of it. Given that I work all of my games out to be something that they want, every game, it is a bit irksome. They know I DM well, and they know I'm fair, and they know I put work into every game I run, for them. Giving something a shot wouldn't kill them, yet they outright refuse to do so. I would suggest telling your DM/Buddy that you think there are flaws in the system, but you trust him that he'll work out kinks if they come up if you at least try the system. See what he says. He might be so grateful you are willing to try what he wants for a change, something he will enjoy putting his time and effort into, he may later be more agreeable to work out the kinks that make you dislike the system. He may not, but it's worth a shot, right? Then again, there are things I just don't dig, and don't want to be bothered with. So there is a flip-side with that too.
Bruunwald 04-04-07, 07:59 PM	There's nothing you could or should do about this. I am sure plenty of people here are going to tell you to "vote with your feet," or "DM yourself." You have already nixed the latter, and I am afraid the former is irrelevant. Look, you can vote with your feet, and you should, since you don't like the system your DM is moving to. But the more important issue is that your DM is a person, too, and has as much right to want to play whatever system he likes as any of you. There is a general myth among many players that the DM is some kind of servant, tied to a system approved of by his players, with no rights but those of a slave, or at least, that he should remain coersible or bulliable to all the desires of the group. Not so. Your DM is a human being with a right to do what he wants, and to find a group that wants to share the experience. Just like you.
Sarrazon 04-04-07, 08:00 PM	Note. the OP said he'd played the system with them before. And I've already told 'em I don't like MERP (something which they've known since we first played it, years ago).
Krusk 04-04-07, 08:04 PM	I say give it a shot for a session or two, you dont like it and if none of the other players do either the dm will pick up on this, and do his best to make it fun again. Eventually after a couple of sessions i see you guys back to DND.
Azezel 04-04-07, 08:46 PM	These chaps are your friends, right? Good. Excellent - they probably like you then, they want you to be happy. But you're not joined at the hip. Tell them you don't like MERP (and who can blame you??? Wound penalties are a game challenge to overcome in the same way that having your feet amputated is an ice-skating challenge to overcome) but that you like them. Let them play MERP, have their fun - when the campaign is over and they start using some other system, come back. The exact same thing happened to me once - the group decided they wanted to play an Evil campaign - I said that I had no interest participating in that, so I didn't. Then, later when the group was done with the evil game, I came back - everyone wins. I used the time to write a campaign - You say you're not a good DM, well, you now have a couple of hours free each week to become a good DM.
LeuktheSavior 04-04-07, 09:21 PM	then sabotage the game in a way that is still fun. Play a traitor, and systematically kill off your fellow players, and pump skills into bluff (if its anything like dnd, im a white-wolf and dnd kid so i dont know much about MERP) so you can convince them that their death was a freak accident. chances are you'll be found and probably killed early on, but it'll be a good experience. and with rules where you take -50 for damaged tendons, you could just hamstring everyone while they sleep and leave them for the wolves, and end the campaign just like that. I knwo as a DM it would be frustrating, but i would allow it if only because i enjoy ingenuity and conflict
Krusk 04-04-07, 11:05 PM	/\ do not do that, your friends will hate you and probably not invite you back.
RetiredThief 04-04-07, 11:36 PM	If you insist that he DM's all the time, I think it's reasonable for him to DM something HE'D like once in a while. Look at it this way: DMing's hard work (compared to playing.) And sounds like he has no choice because no one else in his group can, or is willing to, DM. And now you think he should only DM what YOU like to play? I think HE should walk. Or demand pay for his services.
wizarddog 04-05-07, 01:57 AM	Challenge yourself by creating a character in MERP that is totally opposite what you play in DnD or have played. If he/she dies it won't be a big deal but you will have had the experience playing a different character and you won't have any vested interest in him/her. Chances are, if you put the effort on character idea/concept, you will enjoy the game more and ignore the mechanics.;) wizarddog
Tonio 04-05-07, 06:20 AM	A) creating a character different from what I normally play is hardly an option, since I've (at least recently) gravitated towards warrior-types, and MERP is HEAVILY geared towards warrior types (basically the only other viable option is the "scout", the D&D rogue analgogue, and he's a second to the warrior... all others are casters and therefore distant thirds to warriors and scouts) B) my D&D DM isn't DM'ing (well, GM'ing) this MERP campaign... he's being a player here. Another guy, who just happens to ALSO be an excellent DM/GM, will be GM'ing this campaign (yes, we're blessed with two very excellent DM/GMs). C) problem is officially solved. Tonight we got together, heavily hit a couple of bottles of rum (this is Puerto Rico, rum is GOOD here, not that yucky "Bacardi" or weak "Captain Morgan" you get over there), and I got seriosuly accused of "not knowing how to play" (it was made clear I wasn't accused of not knowing the system, either system, but rather being unexperienced... nevermind the fact that I have nearly 20 years of RPG experience, all that mattered was the fact tha they had 2-4 more years than I have), so I yielded and decided I should not play. Sure, that's not what they wanted... they just wanted to reverse-psychologize me into wanting to play MERP, but since reverse psychology has been traditionally countereffective in my case, I sorta just happened to go the other way. The campaign is now composed of one GM, one experienced player, one total newbie (who also happens not to like RPGs, just plays to hang out with friends), and a possible, very irregular, I'll-maybe-show-up-once-every-seven-sessions third. Let's see how it goes for 'em. I'll gladly accept any and all criticisms on my playstyle, knowledge of the rules, rightness or wrongness of my opinions, or just about anything else, but being accused of something that's plainly and blatantly untrue, especially in the face of obvious facts, tends to sort of irk me. shrug Then again, I'm quite drunk, and I might think otherwise tomorrow... but god I hope not. I try to make a point of not stepping on anybody, and I'm sure as hell not gonna be stepped on.