Help!; Dwarven Paladin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help!; Dwarven Paladin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fiery_Fighter_Drake
10-12-04, 05:57 AM Hey all. I need help making a dwarven paladin. I'm using a standard 28pt buy and currently the stats are:

STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 10

Now, after checking out how you turn undead, I kinda noticed it depends a lot on Charisma. So, in this case should I forget about turning undead or dump one of my other stats for Charisma?
Sphyre
10-12-04, 06:02 AM Since you can wear fullplate dropping the dex down to 12 to boost the cha if you wish...

or you can take feats that use your turning attempts for alternate effect such as found in the completel warrior, along with extra turning because you have a low cha.

Make sure you get a +2 periapt of wisdom eventually, so you can cast your 4th level spells... at least if you care about casting them that is.
Fiery_Fighter_Drake
10-12-04, 06:35 AM My DM uses only the core 3.5 books. However, he does allow us to "upgrade" our items rather then buying new ones. A cloak of charisma sounds good right about now but it is kinda pricey for a 3rd lvl character. More importantly, can a paladin survive without the ability to turn?
dave morbid
10-12-04, 06:59 AM Yeah a Paladin can survive without Turning, as he should be the party's secondary Turner/Healer behind the cleric. IE the Pally should only be turning/healing when:

1. The cleric is out of turns/heals for the day.
2. The cleric is not there.

But you still might want a higher Cha, since in alot of ways you could be the party's talker. Unless you have a bard in the party.
Sphyre
10-12-04, 07:00 AM More importantly, can a paladin survive without the ability to turn?

I've never seen a paladin who actually used his turn attempts... to turn undead... but that may just be my experience paladins take divine might (which does nothing for you with 10 cha...)

Sacred vengeance might be a good feat to take because you may be too weak to turn - you still can use them as a bonus against undead.

Biggest question is... why are you playing a paladin if you have law cha? Why are you playing a dwarf if you're a paladin and you aren't rolling and have really good scores? A lot of the paladins power comes from that charisma. Bonus to saves, turn attempts and divine feats... You're basically no more than the Warrior NPC class with an alignment description and VERY minor casting ability.
markhaus
10-12-04, 07:51 AM Why are you playing a dwarf if you're a paladin and you aren't rolling and have really good scores?
Maybe he really wants to be a dwarven paladin.

Throw at least a 12 (14 before racial modifier) in Cha for the save boosts. This will also give you another turn per day.

and dont play a pompous paladin. (gotta add that to every paladin post)
Sphyre
10-12-04, 08:15 AM Maybe he really wants to be a dwarven paladin.

Well... aparently... considering he is...
Sir Knight
10-12-04, 08:35 AM I would try to have a 14 in CHA if possible... Paladin's are built around Charisma. Most of their special abilities are affected by their Cha bonus. If it was me, I would have a 12 or 14 in Cha at first level (if I wasn't a Dwarf I would have a 15 or higher), and I would ignore the Dex.

If you are playing a "standard" Paladin, you won't need the AC bonus because you will quickly be wearing heavy armor and won't benefit from the high Dex bonus. You also won't be using ranged weapons very often so the other bonus from Dex won't really matter much.

Never feel that you can't have the character that you want just because you don't have the Min/Max attitude. You can keep him the way you have him now, just keep in mind that he won't have full access to many of his core class abilities. You may want to consider a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric combo if you just want a Holy Warrior.

I would do the following:
STR 14
DEX 10
CON 14 (16 after race)
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 14 (12 after race)

4th Level +1 Cha, 8th Level +1 Cha, 12th Level +1 Wis, 16th +1 Wis, 20th +1 Cha.

But anything is just fine really. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Fiery_Fighter_Drake
10-12-04, 10:03 AM Okay, so final stats are:

STR 14
DEX 12
CON 14 (after racial bonus)
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 12 (after racial bonus)

Now, for the skills. I'm thinking of maxing out my Sense Motive and Diplomacy skills first. The remaining 6pts will be split 5/1 between Knowledge(religion), to aid my turning checks, and Knowledge(royalty and noblility). As I level up, I'll keep adding to Knowledge(royalty and nobility) until I have 5 ranks to get the synergy bonus for Diplomacy.

For feats, since I'm starting at lvl 3, I'll probably go for Lightning Reflexes and Improved Turning. Armor will be Masterwork Full Plate but you guys gotta help me choose between the warhammer or the dwarven waraxe. A darkwood shield completes the outfit.

For ability points:
4th - Wisdom
8th - Wisdom (by this time I'll have a Cloak of Charisma)
12th -Charisma
16th - Charisma
20th - ???

So tell me, what do you guys think?
Sir Knight
10-12-04, 01:15 PM Diplomacy and Sense Motive are great skills for a Paladin to have (consider the Negotiator feat if you want an added edge for these skills). Both Knowledge skills are great. I would consider Ride, Climb, Jump, Swim Skill points permitting of course. I tend to have a lot of skills like Craft, Knowledge and stuff like that.

Feats I would first consider whether you're going for a Prestige Class or not. If you are see it's requirements and start getting them. If not I would go with Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Extra Turning (then the Divine feats from Complete Warrior), Mounted Combat, etc. I would ignore Weapon Focus since you can't get Specialization and you can get other feats that are more "important".

I would definately have the Dwarven Waraxe if I had to choose... but why not have both? That way you look impressive (huge axe and hammer) and you have a handy undead crusher.

I am pretty sure that either will let you use them 2 handed for the awesome extra damage (especially when using Power Attack). You will have a lot of versitality.
pres_man
10-12-04, 03:26 PM For ability points:
4th - Wisdom
8th - Wisdom (by this time I'll have a Cloak of Charisma)
12th -Charisma
16th - Charisma
20th - ???

So tell me, what do you guys think?

The Charisma will be more beneficial early on then the wisdom.
MattD121
10-12-04, 07:52 PM Puny paladins! I play multiclass fighter/clerics (OOtS fans will get that one). "I play a bard." "Puny bards! I play a rogue/fighter/sorceror!"

Id say take the charisma earlier and the wisdom later myself.
TheGreenGriffon
10-12-04, 08:07 PM You could try playing a Gold Dwarf (as its called in Forgotten Realms) who take a have:

+2 Con
-2 Dex

They are more suitable Dwarven Paladins than the angry and moody Shield Dwarfs. Heh.
Shard of Suzail
10-12-04, 08:31 PM Can't be good at everything. Paladins are a funny animal, a little like jedi in star wars. Lots of abilities using many different attributes.

I once played a paladin with a con of 8. Had a good backstory that she suffered from holy stigmata and thus bled frequently from her eyes and hands (as fitted Tyr, the god of Justice). The pressure of being so close to the divine took its toll on her and she was often helped around by other characters.

Meant my other stats were much better and meant that my character made sense when it came to having a high charisma. Was fun to roleplay, as locals used to come up and touch her to gain blessings and occasionally the gm would simply have me pass out, but would offer me strange divine insights (bit like epilepsy). Still, when danger threatened, i waded out with the other paladins and dispensed justice to the foe. Most times though, i just negotiated, healed and acted a lot like a cleric.
Fiery_Fighter_Drake
10-12-04, 09:19 PM Shard of Suzail: I like that paladin idea and I am familiar with the stigmata. Personally, though, I like tougher characters rather then stronger characters.

TheGreenGriffon: My DM only allows the three 3.5 core books, so I'm pretty much stuck with the standard dwarf.

MattD121 & pres_man: Well, using Shard's idea, I could drop my CON down to 12 and use the points to raise my CHA to 13 and get 14 on 4th after which I can place the 8th and 12th ability points into WIS and the rest into CON.

Sir Knight: I'm gonna go pure Paladin since the novelty of playing a single class is really quite appealing. Also, I'm gonna try to go for more non-combat feats early on. These will probably be Negotiator, Improved Turning and Extra Turning. For 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th I'll go for Combat Expertise, Improved Sunder, Power Attack and Cleave. No mounted feats for me as I'm sticking with the dwarf flavour of no horses.
Sir Knight
10-13-04, 07:50 AM I'm gonna go pure Paladin since the novelty of playing a single class is really quite appealing. Also, I'm gonna try to go for more non-combat feats early on. These will probably be Negotiator, Improved Turning and Extra Turning. For 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th I'll go for Combat Expertise, Improved Sunder, Power Attack and Cleave.

Hey that's cool. It was just a suggestion. Just remember that Cha is key to Paladin abilities BUT you can have crap scores and still play a fun, memorable, good character. Do what you feel is right. :)

I would still suggest having either Combat Expertise or Power Attack early so that you gain some benefit from them. They are awesome feats. But again, whatever you do is correct.

No mounted feats for me as I'm sticking with the dwarf flavour of no horses.

hehehe Dwarf mounted on a Dire Boar would work very well. :)
Silimaure
10-18-04, 04:16 PM Dexterity isn't that important, if you aim for being a paladin in fullplate and whatnot, just have a 12 or lower in it. Strength, Wisdom, and Charisma are all important, and since you get a +2 on Con, put a higher score in Charisma before con, and have it even out. Intelligence is not important, unless you plan on aiming for combat expertise or other intel based feats.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fiery_Fighter_Drake 10-12-04, 05:57 AM	Hey all. I need help making a dwarven paladin. I'm using a standard 28pt buy and currently the stats are: STR 14 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 12 CHA 10 Now, after checking out how you turn undead, I kinda noticed it depends a lot on Charisma. So, in this case should I forget about turning undead or dump one of my other stats for Charisma?
Sphyre 10-12-04, 06:02 AM	Since you can wear fullplate dropping the dex down to 12 to boost the cha if you wish... or you can take feats that use your turning attempts for alternate effect such as found in the completel warrior, along with extra turning because you have a low cha. Make sure you get a +2 periapt of wisdom eventually, so you can cast your 4th level spells... at least if you care about casting them that is.
Fiery_Fighter_Drake 10-12-04, 06:35 AM	My DM uses only the core 3.5 books. However, he does allow us to "upgrade" our items rather then buying new ones. A cloak of charisma sounds good right about now but it is kinda pricey for a 3rd lvl character. More importantly, can a paladin survive without the ability to turn?
dave morbid 10-12-04, 06:59 AM	Yeah a Paladin can survive without Turning, as he should be the party's secondary Turner/Healer behind the cleric. IE the Pally should only be turning/healing when: 1. The cleric is out of turns/heals for the day. 2. The cleric is not there. But you still might want a higher Cha, since in alot of ways you could be the party's talker. Unless you have a bard in the party.
Sphyre 10-12-04, 07:00 AM	More importantly, can a paladin survive without the ability to turn? I've never seen a paladin who actually used his turn attempts... to turn undead... but that may just be my experience paladins take divine might (which does nothing for you with 10 cha...) Sacred vengeance might be a good feat to take because you may be too weak to turn - you still can use them as a bonus against undead. Biggest question is... why are you playing a paladin if you have law cha? Why are you playing a dwarf if you're a paladin and you aren't rolling and have really good scores? A lot of the paladins power comes from that charisma. Bonus to saves, turn attempts and divine feats... You're basically no more than the Warrior NPC class with an alignment description and VERY minor casting ability.
markhaus 10-12-04, 07:51 AM	Why are you playing a dwarf if you're a paladin and you aren't rolling and have really good scores? Maybe he really wants to be a dwarven paladin. Throw at least a 12 (14 before racial modifier) in Cha for the save boosts. This will also give you another turn per day. and dont play a pompous paladin. (gotta add that to every paladin post)
Sphyre 10-12-04, 08:15 AM	Maybe he really wants to be a dwarven paladin. Well... aparently... considering he is...
Sir Knight 10-12-04, 08:35 AM	I would try to have a 14 in CHA if possible... Paladin's are built around Charisma. Most of their special abilities are affected by their Cha bonus. If it was me, I would have a 12 or 14 in Cha at first level (if I wasn't a Dwarf I would have a 15 or higher), and I would ignore the Dex. If you are playing a "standard" Paladin, you won't need the AC bonus because you will quickly be wearing heavy armor and won't benefit from the high Dex bonus. You also won't be using ranged weapons very often so the other bonus from Dex won't really matter much. Never feel that you can't have the character that you want just because you don't have the Min/Max attitude. You can keep him the way you have him now, just keep in mind that he won't have full access to many of his core class abilities. You may want to consider a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric combo if you just want a Holy Warrior. I would do the following: STR 14 DEX 10 CON 14 (16 after race) INT 12 WIS 12 CHA 14 (12 after race) 4th Level +1 Cha, 8th Level +1 Cha, 12th Level +1 Wis, 16th +1 Wis, 20th +1 Cha. But anything is just fine really. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Fiery_Fighter_Drake 10-12-04, 10:03 AM	Okay, so final stats are: STR 14 DEX 12 CON 14 (after racial bonus) INT 12 WIS 12 CHA 12 (after racial bonus) Now, for the skills. I'm thinking of maxing out my Sense Motive and Diplomacy skills first. The remaining 6pts will be split 5/1 between Knowledge(religion), to aid my turning checks, and Knowledge(royalty and noblility). As I level up, I'll keep adding to Knowledge(royalty and nobility) until I have 5 ranks to get the synergy bonus for Diplomacy. For feats, since I'm starting at lvl 3, I'll probably go for Lightning Reflexes and Improved Turning. Armor will be Masterwork Full Plate but you guys gotta help me choose between the warhammer or the dwarven waraxe. A darkwood shield completes the outfit. For ability points: 4th - Wisdom 8th - Wisdom (by this time I'll have a Cloak of Charisma) 12th -Charisma 16th - Charisma 20th - ??? So tell me, what do you guys think?
Sir Knight 10-12-04, 01:15 PM	Diplomacy and Sense Motive are great skills for a Paladin to have (consider the Negotiator feat if you want an added edge for these skills). Both Knowledge skills are great. I would consider Ride, Climb, Jump, Swim Skill points permitting of course. I tend to have a lot of skills like Craft, Knowledge and stuff like that. Feats I would first consider whether you're going for a Prestige Class or not. If you are see it's requirements and start getting them. If not I would go with Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Extra Turning (then the Divine feats from Complete Warrior), Mounted Combat, etc. I would ignore Weapon Focus since you can't get Specialization and you can get other feats that are more "important". I would definately have the Dwarven Waraxe if I had to choose... but why not have both? That way you look impressive (huge axe and hammer) and you have a handy undead crusher. I am pretty sure that either will let you use them 2 handed for the awesome extra damage (especially when using Power Attack). You will have a lot of versitality.
pres_man 10-12-04, 03:26 PM	For ability points: 4th - Wisdom 8th - Wisdom (by this time I'll have a Cloak of Charisma) 12th -Charisma 16th - Charisma 20th - ??? So tell me, what do you guys think? The Charisma will be more beneficial early on then the wisdom.
MattD121 10-12-04, 07:52 PM	Puny paladins! I play multiclass fighter/clerics (OOtS fans will get that one). "I play a bard." "Puny bards! I play a rogue/fighter/sorceror!" Id say take the charisma earlier and the wisdom later myself.
TheGreenGriffon 10-12-04, 08:07 PM	You could try playing a Gold Dwarf (as its called in Forgotten Realms) who take a have: +2 Con -2 Dex They are more suitable Dwarven Paladins than the angry and moody Shield Dwarfs. Heh.
Shard of Suzail 10-12-04, 08:31 PM	Can't be good at everything. Paladins are a funny animal, a little like jedi in star wars. Lots of abilities using many different attributes. I once played a paladin with a con of 8. Had a good backstory that she suffered from holy stigmata and thus bled frequently from her eyes and hands (as fitted Tyr, the god of Justice). The pressure of being so close to the divine took its toll on her and she was often helped around by other characters. Meant my other stats were much better and meant that my character made sense when it came to having a high charisma. Was fun to roleplay, as locals used to come up and touch her to gain blessings and occasionally the gm would simply have me pass out, but would offer me strange divine insights (bit like epilepsy). Still, when danger threatened, i waded out with the other paladins and dispensed justice to the foe. Most times though, i just negotiated, healed and acted a lot like a cleric.
Fiery_Fighter_Drake 10-12-04, 09:19 PM	Shard of Suzail: I like that paladin idea and I am familiar with the stigmata. Personally, though, I like tougher characters rather then stronger characters. TheGreenGriffon: My DM only allows the three 3.5 core books, so I'm pretty much stuck with the standard dwarf. MattD121 & pres_man: Well, using Shard's idea, I could drop my CON down to 12 and use the points to raise my CHA to 13 and get 14 on 4th after which I can place the 8th and 12th ability points into WIS and the rest into CON. Sir Knight: I'm gonna go pure Paladin since the novelty of playing a single class is really quite appealing. Also, I'm gonna try to go for more non-combat feats early on. These will probably be Negotiator, Improved Turning and Extra Turning. For 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th I'll go for Combat Expertise, Improved Sunder, Power Attack and Cleave. No mounted feats for me as I'm sticking with the dwarf flavour of no horses.
Sir Knight 10-13-04, 07:50 AM	I'm gonna go pure Paladin since the novelty of playing a single class is really quite appealing. Also, I'm gonna try to go for more non-combat feats early on. These will probably be Negotiator, Improved Turning and Extra Turning. For 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th I'll go for Combat Expertise, Improved Sunder, Power Attack and Cleave. Hey that's cool. It was just a suggestion. Just remember that Cha is key to Paladin abilities BUT you can have crap scores and still play a fun, memorable, good character. Do what you feel is right. :) I would still suggest having either Combat Expertise or Power Attack early so that you gain some benefit from them. They are awesome feats. But again, whatever you do is correct. No mounted feats for me as I'm sticking with the dwarf flavour of no horses. hehehe Dwarf mounted on a Dire Boar would work very well. :)
Silimaure 10-18-04, 04:16 PM	Dexterity isn't that important, if you aim for being a paladin in fullplate and whatnot, just have a 12 or lower in it. Strength, Wisdom, and Charisma are all important, and since you get a +2 on Con, put a higher score in Charisma before con, and have it even out. Intelligence is not important, unless you plan on aiming for combat expertise or other intel based feats.