Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yruc 03-24-07, 09:52 PM	I have a problem with rolling high on a D20. I think dice have started hating me and I have no idea why. My last campaign, which lasted 6 months, my character ONLY made 2 (yes count them 2 saves the WHOLE CAMPAIGN) The character was a kobold sorcerer and had high will saves of course and never made one, I would always always roll 1-5 on dice for saves. I used different dice, I have 5 D20s and none of them would roll high. We play in a gaming store and after 5 failed saves in a row, went up and bought another set of dice and used them. Guess what. The next save failed. Was horrible. The two saves that were made were 2 reflex saves against 1 spell that really didn’t' matter and a trap. Everyone in the party and the DM included felt sorry for my character. It was pretty bad. Last fight of the campaign with the BBEG, my character gets hit with a spell that turns him into dust if he fails his save. He fails his save and 6 seconds later the BBEG dies but not before turning me into a pile of dust.. Next campaign. Dwarf barbarian. For the short 6 weeks of his life never had 1 critical hit. He would roll a 20 and then never confirm the crit. He was a pretty sad character, he made a few saves, mainly the fort ones (surprise) but really unlucky with the saves as well. This dwarf gets taken to negative hit points, looses rage and dies most horribly. So today's session. I created a plain fighter to replace the dwarf that died last week. The DM was going to introduce my character to the party by having me fight against 3 low level creatures and they come up on us and help me out. Well, before starting, I picked up 5 of my D20's and rolled them to see which one was going to be the one to use today. Well after rolling 15 dice, my highest roll was 12, finally after rolling 30 dice, finally got a 20! So we start the combat and the group runs up and starts to help. On my initiative I roll to hit and miss, the DM says try again because you really want to impress these guys if you want to adventure with them. So try again. Miss. (I only need to roll a 9 to hit them...the Dm shakes his head and says one more time. Guess what. I miss!!!!! On the 4th attempt I finally hit and do minimum damage. Then fighting a spider swarm that has a DC 12 poison fort save, I fail it 2 out of the 4 times I had to roll for it. My base fort save is 7!! A large monster has an AC I can only miss on a 1, so being a fighter I power attack for 5. So I will hit on a 6 or higher... I miss not once, but twice!!!!!!!! I want to scream. I have even started using the DM's and other party members dice. It doesn't matter what dice I use I seriously suck at rolling dice. Anyone have any suggestions? Tips? Ways to bribe the dice gods into showing me some favor? Ways to appease lady luck?
Ace_of_time 03-24-07, 10:05 PM	Be my DM, please.
Ace_of_time 03-24-07, 10:11 PM	It really comes down to luck. don't switch dice ever. pick one set and use them the whole game. If they don't work right. pick another set until you find one that works. If you switch dice after rolling low your odds go back to 50% ether high or low. but the odds of rolling the same die low over and over and over are lower than if you switch each time you roll. My Players feel this way for another reason. I have a set of red dice that I only use for monster and so for i have a 85% chance of 15 or better when I roll them for a monster.
KillerVole 03-24-07, 10:11 PM	Ask another player to make your rolls for you. This sometimes works. Or sacrifice your dice to Cthulhu, in full view of a new set of dice. This may motivate them.
snakeman830 03-24-07, 10:38 PM	Ummm. harsh luck. I'm afraid that nothing can really help with this. Find a four-leaf clover and carry it with you to all gaming sessions. My younger brother's character in my campaign is just the opposite. He has never failed a save with his catfolk rouge. He has never gone below 50% health through a full 15 levels. His starting ability scores were absolutely awesome and he has never missed a critical hit. I'll go tell him to stop stealing your luck. EDIT: The rolls I'm mentioning have all been rolled out in the open, so nobody can argue.
Tonio 03-24-07, 10:42 PM	It really comes down to luck. don't switch dice ever. pick one set and use them the whole game. If they don't work right. pick another set until you find one that works. If you switch dice after rolling low your odds go back to 50% ether high or low. but the odds of rolling the same die low over and over and over are lower than if you switch each time you roll. My Players feel this way for another reason. I have a set of red dice that I only use for monster and so for i have a 85% chance of 15 or better when I roll them for a monster. Gambler's Fallacy. The outcome of a die roll has zero impact on the next die roll, whether you switch dice or not. If you find yourself rolling badly consistently, it could be one of three things: perception (you tend to notice bad rolls more than good, especially if they happen on important events), bad luck (truly random dice can be streaky), or uneven ("loaded") dice. Chances are the dice aren't loaded, especially if they're a respectable brand. My advice, given that it's happened with several dice sets (thus minimizing the already minuscule chance of loaded dice), is to just stick with it, don't give it much thought. You'll either notice you're not really rolling as bad as you thought you were, or you'll see your luck change, probably.
tharivol266 03-24-07, 10:48 PM	set an example. take the worst offender and a hammer and then set all of your other dice in view and smash the offender. just be careful because it may send sharp plastic shards in your direction and i doubt you can make the ref save ;)
Comus 03-24-07, 11:03 PM	You fail because a gypsy has put a curse on you. You must defeat the Evil Eye if you ever wish to roll well again. I could help you, for a... price...
AffableDoomwalker 03-25-07, 12:00 AM	Ask another player to make your rolls for you. This sometimes works. Or sacrifice your dice to Cthulhu, in full view of a new set of dice. This may motivate them. Be my DM, please. :rofl: at both of these. Honestly man. Don't even start getting into that whole "lucky dice" line of thought... just find a pretty set of fine German [Chessex] craftsmanship, and roll with it. No pun intended. I personally own eight sets of dice, I carry at least four when I go to games - simply because a lot of people don't own, or forget their dice. The only dice that are off limits are my Carnival dice, because they's the prettiest. Actually, come to think of it, that's something that can be applied to pencils and erasers too.
Archangel_Tyrael 03-25-07, 12:50 AM	If you have sequential dice you can get good at spinning them so that the only numbers that can be "rolled" are 16-20. My DM still hasn't figured out this little trick of mine, but I only use it on really important rolls.
Mage_of_the_Ashes 03-25-07, 02:07 AM	Become a Psion, that way what you want roll what-is you want to roll.
danielinthewolvesden 03-25-07, 02:27 AM	There is no such thing as "luck" but it is possible your dice are defective. Get new ones. Then do good deeds to rack up good Karma.
Yruc 03-25-07, 07:40 AM	Be my DM, please. Lol :) Winning against the monsters all the time would get boring man. All my dice rolls are in full view of everyone on the table and when I roll everyone watches cause they know I'm going to fail that needed save and it's like a car wreck each time, they just have to watch. Most of the time it ends in a groan or a shaken head. Though the DM did take a perverse pleasure in making my dwarf roll a DC 10 balance check. Of course he failed it and slipped and fell then had to make a reflex save to stop himself from falling off the edge of a cliff which he luckily made. So the party ties a rope around everyone so if someone slips they aren't going to wind up at the bottom of the cliff in a lot of pain. Everone in the party but 1 other person can auto make the check they have to roll a 3 to make it. So we continue trying to cross. Only I need to make the check, and yes I failed again. Then missed the reflex save to grab the edge before falling off, lucky for me the group was able to make a strength check to prevent me from falling to my death and pulling them with me. I mean things like this happen all the time. I'm not making it up. I have tried new dice, the DM's dice which has no problem turning my characters into a bloody pulp with. I use the other players dice. It just doesn't matter. When the other players roll low they just look at me like its my fault. I am begining to think that sacrificing a set is going to be the only cure. Anyone else as lucky as I am when it comes to the dice rolls?
Marauderk 03-25-07, 07:47 AM	Man i feel you i had a 12th level paladin that did not make a single saving throw the whole time. It was sad and the other players knew to never hag out around me cause io was always setting things off or falling or just plain unlucky to be around
runestar 03-25-07, 08:53 AM	Ever had the sort of bad luck where you ended up missing your rolls by 1 10 times in a row straight?:weep: My dm let me reroll some of them, and I still kept missing by 1...he ended up rolling for me and fudging some results because it seemed like the die would be jinxed for the whole session... my other players were too busy laughing to complain, nor did they mind...:embarrass
Karish 03-25-07, 12:46 PM	I'm all for the Cthulhu bit. That, or if you genuinely are incapable of rolling good numbers, have someone else roll.
Aise 03-25-07, 12:58 PM	I suggest going on the internet, or to GenCon if it makes you feel more real and buying a golden D20, then sacerfice all your other dice to Cthulhu.
WilwarinAndamar 03-25-07, 01:25 PM	Our Rogue had the same problems. Our first game session, he rolled almost nothing over 5. However, last night during an impromptu duel between him and the Wizard (Me), he was incredibly lucky. Nothing below a 10, and being a Rogue, he had stats that made the outcome in their 20s. The Wizard never had a chance. Move Silently 20, Move Silently 23, his Attack Crits and does 17 damage on a 14 HP Wizard. I went down in two moves without doing a thing. :confused: Your luck will change. I don't know if it helps, but before my boyfriend rolls his dice, he always holds them with the 1 facing up. His reasoning is that if it's already on the lowest number, the odds are that he won't roll a low number. So far it's worked pretty well.
Onikani 03-25-07, 01:59 PM	Stop rolling? It sounds dumb but seriously: Try being a caster (or a psion as already mentioned). Make them roll to overcome you... Be a blaster of sorts - magic missile NEVER misses. Fireballs only 'miss' to evasion. If you are worried about damage try a warmage since you can add your int to the damage. Even at 5th level the pathetic magic missile volley can do 3d4+3+3(int) to a opponent. Ok, so it only averages like 12 damage. It NEVER misses. Got dex? Scorching Ray (2nd level spell does 4d6) is a touch attack. With a decent dex and +2BAB you can hit most opponents on rolls of 5-7. Even a cleric, Just cast sanctuary on yourself and run around smaking allies with the band aid stick. Or cast such rediculous buff's on yourself that you only miss on a nat 1. Take the luck domain so you get a reroll once a day. Also there is a feat that lets you reroll failed saves for clerics (can't remember the name, its in CompDivine). Or, get as much out of those rolls as possible: In other words (legally) stack bonuses and feats that allow rerolls Choose races and item that add bonus to your saves. Cloak of resistance is 1k and adds +1 across the board. If you're a halfling, even better. Halfling Cleric with a Cloak of Res, and the luck domain means never failing a will save again. We haven't even gotten to feats yet. Dungeonscape has boots that trigger ad move you 5' whenever you would have to make a reflex save. They cost 3k and if they move you out of the AoE, you automatically take no damage. See if your DM will allow those. Choose feats that boost your saves. Luck of heroes (FR) adds +1 to all saves, or you could choose lightning reflexes and the ilk from the PHB. Also, look into Luck Feats from complete scoundral. They let you reroll just about anything. There is also a PrC in the same book that lets you add exta luck points and luck feats. Sample character (30 point buy) Human Cleric (6th level) Domains: Luck and Something s12 d14 co12 i12 w16 c12 Saves Base Stat Feats Equip F 5 1 0 2 R 2 2 2 2 W 5 3 0 2 Totals: F 8 R 8 W 10 Feats: (all from complete scoundral) 1 Victor's Luck, Unbelievable Luck 3 Third Times the Charm 6 Tempting Fate Total Luck Points: 5 Use these luck points with "3x is a charm" to reroll anything the luck domain lets you reroll (which is pretty much anythign). So you effectively get 6x rerolls a day, and up to 2 rerolls on a given failed save. Victors luck lets you reroll crit confirmations (RAW it even lets you reroll your opponent's) Unb Luck give your worst save (ref) +2 and 2 luck rolls. And remember your boots will get out safely out of the way of most reflex saves anyway. Tempting Fate lets you automatically stabilize and prevents you from going from positive to -10 in one hit. Average Equip 13k: 4k Cloak of Res +2 3k Boots from Dungeonscape 6k Whatever else How's that for a shell?
Cthulhu3125 03-25-07, 02:02 PM	Offer the dice as a sacrifice while dancing round chanting "Hastur Hastur Hastur". Never fails.
Toloran 03-25-07, 02:36 PM	I've always been a fan of burning the offending die in front of the rest of my dice. That generally scares them into rolling well :)
atog_eater 03-25-07, 02:43 PM	I have appalling luck with dice rolls. I’ve found that a few things help improve my rolls. • First of all I’m faithfull to my dice, I still use the first set of DnD dice I ever bought, all other dice have just failed me. • Get to know your dice, give them a hug now and again – if your roll is important then tell them. Once your dice are your friends they’ll help you out. I have a set of 10 identical D10s that I only use for vampire and when my friends added an extra one to the pool while I was out of the room I threw it back at them as soon as I sat down. • Test your dice before you buy them – sometimes you’ll buy dice that just hate you. • DO NOT LET ANY OTHER PERSON TUCH YOUR DICE!!!!!!!!!! • Keep your dice under a pyramid – or even better keep them in a pyramid. • A friend of mine beats his dice with a whippy stick (available in the warhammer boxed games) when they don’t perform. • Get dice in the colours of your god – the friend above has Tzeentch coloured dice that hardly ever fail him, I have some Slaaneshi ones that allow wardancers to killing blow about 25% of the time (Slaaneshi woodelves, who’d have thought it?)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 03-25-07, 06:09 PM	It's all in the mind. No such thing as luck.
Sleepwalker13666 03-25-07, 06:16 PM	This is what I would do with you unlucky dice. :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OmpnfL5PCw
Mystyc 03-25-07, 06:58 PM	I second the idea of investing in the luck feats from Complete Scoundrel. They aren't actually that powerful, but they can help you endure bad streaks. Even if you're in a bad rut, you'll rip through it at an accelerated pace (so to speak).
Blackskullgreymon 03-25-07, 07:03 PM	I have a lot of little tricks and rituals for just such an occasion. Each one will work differently for different people. For one, try sleeping with the dice under your pillow. This will let the dreams of your wishes flow downward and pass through the die. Also, try keeping them with you for a day. Like, in your pocket. This could help by allowing you to reconnect with your die. If neither of these work, consider how your life is. If you are unhappy with your life, it could be some kind of karmic backlash that is striking you through gameplay, in which the die are merely pawns of a greater picture. God has a sense of humor, you know. Oh, here's a quicky: Stack all your die on top of eachother. The topmost one should be your d4. Under that make sure it's your d20 and make sure all your die are facing upwards with the lowest number possible. Now, knock them down so that they all roll at least once. If your d20 is a good roll, keep it. Repeat until you get at least 15. Also, I know some ways of cursing other people's die. If you can get them, you could try putting some dirt from your home on his d20. Go ahead and rub it off so it looks clean, but hopefully your luck will spread to his through this manner.
DarkNick 03-25-07, 08:35 PM	Shame, worst case of unlucky roller I have ever seen. Take note of all your rolls for the next few sessions. Find out what the mean and median is. Are you really unlucky or do you just think you are unlucky. Maybe the rest of the players cheat so in comparison you look bad. Remember that a lot of rolls in dnd give you less than 50:50 of succeeding. It might see like you are an unlucky roller, but it could just be probability.
Kouk 03-25-07, 11:47 PM	The dice you have one night stands with don't really respect you, they are just using you for a quick roll. Try being faithful. Relationships can be tough, but if you can work through your problems you will probably both find it more rewarding.
Callista 03-26-07, 12:13 AM	I'm surprised no one has mentioned this: Play a character whose abilities depend the least on dice.
Yruc 03-26-07, 07:20 AM	Thanks for the support :) I really like some of the suggestions. :rofl: I will keep track of my rolls on sat when we play next and post the results just so you know I'm not crazy. Keep the ideas coming.
Grogmir 03-26-07, 07:49 AM	Help for Unlucky Dice? 'Fraid theres no such thing, Only Unlucky Players and in my experience they are negative people who only notice their bad rolls. But.... That doesn't seem like you in this case. So some sort of ritual might actually work. Break you of your mindset. Once that's done, keep a running tally. Make a consious effort to notice your good rolls. You'll be surprised how quickly we forget them but how long we remember the bad ones. Its a human fault. Grogmir
ElHiggz 03-26-07, 07:54 AM	Wow, that's some bad luck. The only thing I have wrong with my dice is they never crit. Unless it's against something that can't be criticalled.
Throg 03-26-07, 12:49 PM	Gambler's Fallacy. The outcome of a die roll has zero impact on the next die roll, whether you switch dice or not. If you find yourself rolling badly consistently, it could be one of three things: perception (you tend to notice bad rolls more than good, especially if they happen on important events), bad luck (truly random dice can be streaky), or uneven ("loaded") dice. Chances are the dice aren't loaded, especially if they're a respectable brand. My advice, given that it's happened with several dice sets (thus minimizing the already minuscule chance of loaded dice), is to just stick with it, don't give it much thought. You'll either notice you're not really rolling as bad as you thought you were, or you'll see your luck change, probably. I don't know... I once knew someone who had a set of d20's to play a minature game, he smashed one of his dice to prove to the others what would happen if they fell out of line. At a gaming convention, he brought the smashed dice with the bag and was doing very well... until I started to put the dice back togeather cause I was bored, at that point his dice had false hope and spurned him, rolling awefully from that point. Needless to say, he threw out the entire set. Maybe dice do have a mind of their own...
Tonio 03-26-07, 01:51 PM	Well, I often make a point of rolling with what some of my friends claim are "bad" dice (dice that, they claim, consistently roll badly). I certainly have never noticed worse rolls, on the average, while doing so. The only notable exception to this was a friend of mine who had a set of d6's he'd learned to cast so as to have them land at 6 most of the time (easily 4 our of every 6 casts was a 6). He had to cast 'em one at a time, though. But that's cheating. :)
Alastor_Sevryn 03-26-07, 01:51 PM	Alot of the time, it's a surface issue. What surface do you roll on? I've noticed that rolling on certain kinds of surfaces influences the rolls somehow.
Kyoti00 03-26-07, 02:13 PM	1) Always, and I mean ALWAYS, buy a new set of dice for a new character. There is a connection between Playr, Dice, and Character. If that connection is broken the dice will betray you. 2) And this is just my personal superstition, place all of you dice accourding to allignment. For example, if you are a Lawful Good place group all of your dice by type and place them on the highest number (ie. d20s together set on 20, d12s together set to 12, etc), Chaotic Evil place them all in a jumbled pile all set to 1, and so on. Ever since I started placing my dice this way all of my character rolls have been pretty fitting with the personality.
tankschmidt 03-26-07, 03:25 PM	Common Dice Rolling Problems and Solutions Problem 1: You are off balance. Solution: Take everything out of your right pocket, and put it in your left pocket. Take everything that started in your left pocket, and put it in your right pocket. Problem 2: You have acquired too much bad karma. Solution: Pause the game to do some charity work. Or failing that, order a pizza for your group on the spot. Problem 3: Your primary hand is too tired for the proper flick o' the wrist. Solution: Begin rolling with your off-hand. Remember to compensate for only having 1/2 the strength bonus. (no change if you have str 10 or 11!) Problem 4: You are too mature to play Dungeons and Dragons. Solution: Scream like a child and throw your dice across the room. Personally, I usually just skip to solution 4...
willwrk4internet 03-26-07, 04:46 PM	Just thought i'd share a funny story this thread reminded me of... one time my friend was tossing his die around, and he got a little over-excited and we started tossing it back and forth. Suddenly, out of nowhere, this chick pops up behind be and (of course) my friend happens to throw it high and it goes down her shirt.:eek: The funny thing is, ever since then, this die has been amazingly lucky. Im talking 16+rolls about 75% of the time.
mcmurphy510 03-26-07, 04:48 PM	Put your dice with the 20 facing up into a cup of water... ... bring that cup of water to a boil in the microwave. ... any imperfections in the dice will seperate, with the heaver one singking to the bottom, and the lighter ones to the top... ... trust me... this works... ... really!... :rofl:
The_Basilisk 03-26-07, 06:52 PM	On Saturday...I had a streak of bad luck apparently. Switching dice DID NOT work. I made a new character, thought he was cool. He was a ninja, and ninjas rock! (meaning ninjas rock, not the ninja class in particular) Anyways, after SEVEN attacks in a row getting 4 or less on the D20, he was killed. By a CR 1/2 creature........>_<
Cthulhu3125 03-26-07, 07:14 PM	Put your dice with the 20 facing up into a cup of water... ... bring that cup of water to a boil in the microwave. ... any imperfections in the dice will seperate, with the heaver one singking to the bottom, and the lighter ones to the top... ... trust me... this works... ... really!... :rofl: The separation of the impurities is enhanced if you use battery acid rather than water, incidentally.
tharivol266 03-28-07, 08:55 PM	Put your dice with the 20 facing up into a cup of water... ... bring that cup of water to a boil in the microwave. ... any imperfections in the dice will seperate, with the heaver one singking to the bottom, and the lighter ones to the top... ... trust me... this works... ... really!... :rofl: how melty does it get. are we talking chocolate chip cookie fresh from the oven melty, maple syrup melty or water melty?
Elemental_Elf 03-28-07, 09:40 PM	My suggestion would be to build characters that minimize your bad rolls. Such as for saves, play a class that has all good saves, like a Favored Soul or a Monk. For Critical hits, take that one feat (I forget where it's from) that gives you +4 on crit confirmations. Further, take a weapon that has a high chance of Crits, like Rapiers, or Elven Courtblades and make them keen. Buy magic equipment that increases your attack power and your saves. In essence, take your problems, turn them on their head and make them your strengths. P.S. Try to get your DM to allow Action Points, they'll help a lot!
KillerVole 03-28-07, 10:45 PM	Put your dice with the 20 facing up into a cup of water... ... bring that cup of water to a boil in the microwave. ... any imperfections in the dice will seperate, with the heaver one singking to the bottom, and the lighter ones to the top... ... trust me... this works... ... really!... :rofl: I knew of someone who maintained that dice rolled better when boiled in a kettle with good numbers facing up for the same reason.
tharivol266 03-29-07, 12:51 AM	personally if i were to try the microwave thing i would make sure to use a d12 first in order to show concern to the other dice. maybe then if i decide not to go through it with the rest of them they will be happy
navar100 03-29-07, 01:23 AM	My characters don't roll saving throws. They roll "skill checks" instead. :P
leroy_brown 04-10-07, 08:32 AM	Stick with it man!! Been using the same d20 for a couple of years now, and it ain't been rolling well (somehow managed to survive with sensible gaming - and to be fair it seems to help with the really important saves) Last session it rolled 8 20's in fifteen rolls (unfortunately, the majority were skill checks - we found a lot of potions) so it now has my full confidence (until the next session of course) Mind you, same session, the GM rolled four 20's in a row - luckily against summoned creatures.
Witch 04-10-07, 08:47 AM	The sheer amount of people of believing that dice (or people) actually have some sort of tangible quality called "luck" stupefies me.
Droma 04-10-07, 02:56 PM	Their is luck in the dice. We have 1 set of lucky dice in our group and have our luckiest player rolls them when creating all our stats. One game all of us had at least 4 stats over 15.
WhylniaPendragon 04-10-07, 03:22 PM	Of our gaming group,I seem to have the worst "luck" rolling dice. Our DM has even mentioned that I'll usually roll low, unless it's some kind of skill check. Then I seem to roll pretty well, for some reason. Btw, I'd definitely try the microwave thing. How long are you supposed to do this for? Oh.. and the microwave won't do anything for my set of metal dice.. except maybe blow up the microwave. >_<
Witch 04-11-07, 07:37 AM	Their is luck in the dice. We have 1 set of lucky dice in our group and have our luckiest player rolls them when creating all our stats. One game all of us had at least 4 stats over 15. No, there isn't any luck in the dice. Luck is purely retroactive. Either it just happened to be that that time, everyone rolls high (this is not a mathematical impossibility), or your dice are loaded. There is no luck involved, except afterwards, as you perceive it.
northern_bear 04-11-07, 09:48 AM	What a hilarious post and replies. The gamer in me believes in the power of the luck demons, but the mathematician in me is going to win out and give some non mystical advice here. Any time you roll a d20 you have an equal probability of any result, 1 through 20. Nothing you can do will ever, EVER, change that. So if you feel you're unlucky, try not rolling a D20. Here are a couple of ideas that might help, subject to the DM's approval. Instead of rolling a d20, roll 2d10. Rolls of 10 and 11 will be most common, with extreme rolls being quite rare. Use a random number generator on a computer to produce random results of one through 20, but force it to produce an equal number of each value. Then bring the printout to the game. Every time you need to roll a d20, just pick the next number off the list and cross it off. Similar idea, but less high tech and possibly more in the feel of the game: Make litle pieces of paper, balls, etc, with numbers one through 20 written on them. Throw them into a big bowl. Every time you have to roll a d20, shake the bowl and pull out one of the numbers. That's your roll. Then put that one aside, rather than putting it back into the bowl. Once you have drawn all numbers from the bowl, put them all back in and start over again. Or: Buy a deck of cards, throw away the Kings, Queens, Jacks & Jokers. Shufle the deck and put the cards face down in front of you. Ever time you have a d20 roll, pick the top card and turn it over. If it is a red card, then the number value counts as your roll. If it is a black card, then add 10 to it, and count that as your roll. Then put it into a discard pile. When you run out of cards, re shufle the discard pile and start over. If that doesn't have enough randomness to it, then do the same thing except use more than one deck of cards. The random number generator on a coputer, the fishbowl, or the deck of cards approach have the advantages of being random. But they also guarantee that for every 20 times you have to roll the d20, you will get one roll of 1, one roll of 2, . . . all the way up to one roll of 20. This may take some of the fun out of rolling dice, but it ensures that in the long run your luck will be pretty even.
Comus 04-11-07, 10:19 AM	No, there isn't any luck in the dice. Luck is purely retroactive. Either it just happened to be that that time, everyone rolls high (this is not a mathematical impossibility), or your dice are loaded. There is no luck involved, except afterwards, as you perceive it. In other words, if you're willing to call a string of probability results that end in positive outcomes 'good luck', then luck certainly exists.
leroy_brown 04-11-07, 11:39 AM	What a hilarious post and replies. The gamer in me believes in the power of the luck demons, but the mathematician in me is going to win out and give some non mystical advice here. Any time you roll a d20 you have an equal probability of any result, 1 through 20. Nothing you can do will ever, EVER, change that. So if you feel you're unlucky, try not rolling a D20. Here are a couple of ideas that might help, subject to the DM's approval. Instead of rolling a d20, roll 2d10. Rolls of 10 and 11 will be most common, with extreme rolls being quite rare. Therefore generating a number from 2-20 - not quite the same Use a random number generator on a computer to produce random results of one through 20, but force it to produce an equal number of each value. Then bring the printout to the game. Every time you need to roll a d20, just pick the next number off the list and cross it off. Even these programs aren't entirely "random" Similar idea, but less high tech and possibly more in the feel of the game: Make litle pieces of paper, balls, etc, with numbers one through 20 written on them. Throw them into a big bowl. Every time you have to roll a d20, shake the bowl and pull out one of the numbers. That's your roll. Then put that one aside, rather than putting it back into the bowl. Once you have drawn all numbers from the bowl, put them all back in and start over again. Or: Buy a deck of cards, throw away the Kings, Queens, Jacks & Jokers. Shufle the deck and put the cards face down in front of you. Ever time you have a d20 roll, pick the top card and turn it over. If it is a red card, then the number value counts as your roll. If it is a black card, then add 10 to it, and count that as your roll. Then put it into a discard pile. When you run out of cards, re shufle the discard pile and start over. I can just imagine needing to make a critical saving throw, knowing that there's only a "one" left in the pack/bowl If that doesn't have enough randomness to it, then do the same thing except use more than one deck of cards. The random number generator on a coputer, the fishbowl, or the deck of cards approach have the advantages of being random. But they also guarantee that for every 20 times you have to roll the d20, you will get one roll of 1, one roll of 2, . . . all the way up to one roll of 20. This may take some of the fun out of rolling dice, but it ensures that in the long run your luck will be pretty even. I agree, the post is interesting, especially as it confirms that most other gamers go through the same feelings that I do. Deep down, I know that my dice are random, however there are still dice that I "trust" over others. One of my players has managed to roll a nat 20 three times when really needed recently - he won't use any other d20 (makes it bloody hard when he DMs for us) I say continue treating your dice like individuals. Talk to them, cajole them, promise them a new furry dice bag - what harm can it do? Cos there is the very small chance that they are indeed alive...:)
northern_bear 04-11-07, 11:59 AM	If you switch dice after rolling low your odds go back to 50% ether high or low. but the odds of rolling the same die low over and over and over are lower than if you switch each time you roll. Completely wrong. Assuming the dice are not loaded, absolutely nothing that has happened in the past has any effect on the roll you are about to make. When you flip a coin, it has a 50% chance of coming up heads, and 50% chance of coming up tails. The fact that you may have just flipped 50 heads in a row, does not make it any more or less likely that the next coin toss will be a head or a tail. It is still just 50/50. Changing coins won't affect this. Of course, if you did just flip 50 heads in a row, it might be an indication that you've got yourself a two headed coin there. Or unbalanced dice, as the case may be.
tennyocelestia 04-11-07, 03:08 PM	We have a player like that in our current campaign... he rolled straight 2s for the first half of a battle with a large group of zombies and had bad rolls from then into the next battle with a lich construct. In three campaign days worth of encounters (16 days worth of actual game time- I know it seems like a lot, but we were doing a room by room sweep of a palace and had buttloads of interruptions from parents and such), he's hit something five times, and two of them were with the help of a new weapon (as follows). My DM felt so sorry for him that he gave him a weapon with +4 to all attack rolls and an extra +8 against evil characters. The player agreed to sacrafice bonus on the weapon once/if his rolls started picking up... he's still failed three attack rolls out of five since getting the weapon. Ask your DM about something like that, as long as the other players don't object. It seems like a bit much, I know, but the other players may start getting annoyed that you miss every time you attack and it's obviously no fun for you.
Bunk55 04-11-07, 06:57 PM	It's amazing how easy it is to remember bad runs of dice luck. playing a Ranger/Dervish, who when hasted, had 5 attacks with a threat range of 15+ Two weeks ago, in one fight, three straight rounds of full attack - 15 rolls, not one in double digits.
Kurikin 04-11-07, 07:15 PM	I have a few stories involving unlucky/lucky rolls I'm DMing a campaign and, no matter what dice I roll, I always bring my players to the edge of defeat in 2 or 3 rounds. Now that they're near death for the rest of the encounter whatever dice I roll comes up with something that is just 1-4 shy of being a hit. My campaign has been going on for months and there have been only 2 character deaths, yet every encounter it seems 1 or 2 people go into the negatives. One night one of my players couldn't roll above a 5 the entire time. All of a sudden a giant purple worm comes up from the ground and attempts to swallow him. His only chance is to roll a 20.... and he does. Some dice only roll good for certain people and most of the time the dice likes somebody besides its owner.
V8122 04-11-07, 07:19 PM	The reason is becouse you subconsiously want to roll low numbers and thus you have instead of the standard 5% chance of rolling any number, a roughly 5.75% chance of rolling a one. Honestly, this has been proven. If you are an art or music student (or overly creative) your chances are further increased. Your cure is simple: BELEIVE that you can roll a twenty, and concentrate on rolling said twenty.
The Livewire 04-11-07, 08:28 PM	:rofl: at both of these. Honestly man. Don't even start getting into that whole "lucky dice" line of thought... just find a pretty set of fine German [Chessex] craftsmanship, and roll with it. No pun intended. Gah, don't buy chessex. I've yet to have a good set of Chessex dice in 20 years. I swear by Koplow dice. I've a black set I use for my bards/rouges. They're my 'Bard Savers.' My Crystal Caste D'oh 20 and other d'oh dice roll better when I DM than when I play. Though I did tripple 20 on an orb of force with them.
Witch 04-11-07, 09:15 PM	The reason is becouse you subconsiously want to roll low numbers and thus you have instead of the standard 5% chance of rolling any number, a roughly 5.75% chance of rolling a one. Honestly, this has been proven. If you are an art or music student (or overly creative) your chances are further increased. Your cure is simple: BELEIVE that you can roll a twenty, and concentrate on rolling said twenty. Some dice only roll good for certain people and most of the time the dice likes somebody besides its owner. On related news, the moon landing was fake, the world is controlled by the Illuminati, every important politician is a reptilian, the Holy Grail is hidden in the Louvre, and people who weigh as much as a duck are witches.
Comus 04-11-07, 09:26 PM	On related news, the moon landing was fake, the world is controlled by the Illuminati, every important politician is a reptilian, the Holy Grail is hidden in the Louvre, and people who weigh as much as a duck are witches. So... you weigh as much as a duck?
Kurikin 04-11-07, 09:48 PM	On related news, the moon landing was fake, the world is controlled by the Illuminati, every important politician is a reptilian, the Holy Grail is hidden in the Louvre, and people who weigh as much as a duck are witches. <Insert devious rebuttal> WATCH OUT! SHE'LL TURN YOU INTO A NEWT!
Mystyc 04-11-07, 11:39 PM	On related news, the moon landing was fake, the world is controlled by the Illuminati, every important politician is a reptilian, the Holy Grail is hidden in the Louvre, and people who weigh as much as a duck are witches. And if you don't follow the rules in this ancient book, my invisible friend in the sky will cast you down into a torture pit when you die. Honestly, of all the unprovable things people choose to believe in, luck has to be the most harmless. Let it go.
Witch 04-12-07, 06:05 AM	Honestly, of all the unprovable things people choose to believe in, luck has to be the most harmless. Let it go. I don't like stupidity. I prefer when people actually think rationally.
tharivol266 04-12-07, 06:34 AM	I don't like stupidity. I prefer when people actually think rationally. how was that stupid or irrational?
Witch 04-12-07, 06:59 AM	how was that stupid or irrational? Believing in inherent luck within dice is irrational and stupid. It is primitive thinking. The quoted statement wasn't - I just tend to disagree with it.
northern_bear 04-12-07, 07:48 AM	The reason is becouse you subconsiously want to roll low numbers and thus you have instead of the standard 5% chance of rolling any number, a roughly 5.75% chance of rolling a one. Honestly, this has been proven. If you are an art or music student (or overly creative) your chances are further increased. Your cure is simple: BELEIVE that you can roll a twenty, and concentrate on rolling said twenty. I can't tell if this is suposed to be a joke or not. Is it? If it is a joke, then you need to include something like a smiley face, or something slightly more obviously absurd. If it wasn't intended as a joke, then it is simply wrong. "Honestly, this has been proven." Really? By who? The same guys who proved that the world was flat? Or that Pepsi tastes better than Coke? Please provide the name of the qualified researcher who has proven this, along with the name of the peer reviewed academic journal in which his research appears.
Comus 04-12-07, 10:30 AM	Believing in inherent luck within dice is irrational and stupid. It is primitive thinking. The quoted statement wasn't - I just tend to disagree with it. But it is true that some dice roll better than others, from minor weight differences, wear on the edges, whatever. And some people roll better than others, putting spin on the dice or holding them differently, something. There are some people who roll a lot of high numbers, without cheating. It's just probability, but the fact that that probability works in their favor leads to it being called luck, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Witch 04-12-07, 11:07 AM	But it is true that some dice roll better than others, from minor weight differences, wear on the edges, whatever. And some people roll better than others, putting spin on the dice or holding them differently, something. I completely agree - but this has nothing to do with luck There are some people who roll a lot of high numbers, without cheating. It's just probability, but the fact that that probability works in their favor leads to it being called luck, and there's nothing wrong with that. This isn't how people perceive luck. People perceive luck as a metaphysical factor rather than a material one. In that lies the problem.
northern_bear 04-12-07, 11:20 AM	What is luck? Is a die lucky because it is more likely to roll a 20? Or is it lucky because it has rolled more 20s in the past than the expected random outcome? Actually, no die is likely to roll a 20 any more than any other die, unless it is loaded or imbalanced. But this doesn't change the fact that over time some die will roll better than others. A die that has historically rolled well can be considered lucky. There is nothing unscientific about that. What is unscientific and irrational, is to assume that past events influence completely random future events. By definition, "luck" is only something that can be determined in hind sight. "This die has been lucky for me so far tonight." "That person has had a lot of bad luck in his life." "I just won the lottery. That was lucky." In this backwards looking sense, "luck" is a meaningful concept. It simply means "has experienced possitive results with greater frequency than the expected average outcome." Trying to apply any concept of luck to future random events is pointless though. But let us not forget the point of playing a game. If believing in luck helps you to enjoy the game, then there's no harm in that. Just don't bet money on your luck. Me, I don't belive that you can give yourself good luck. But I still let my beard grow in the playoffs. And I always wear my lucky underwhere on important occasions. A famous mathematician was known to hang a horseshoe over his door. Someone asked him why it was there, and he said for luck. They asked him if be believed in luck. And he replied of course not, but it works whether you believe in it or not. :)
Witch 04-12-07, 11:54 AM	But let us not forget the point of playing a game. If believing in luck helps you to enjoy the game, then there's no harm in that. The problem is that such ignorance tends to spread into other parts of your life. Look only towards, say, homeopathy to notice how naïve people are. A famous mathematician was known to hang a horseshoe over his door. I'm not surprised. For some reason, many famous mathematicians are pretty queer folk.
WilwarinAndamar 04-12-07, 12:37 PM	I usually assumed I had horrible luck with dice... that is until two nights ago when our DM had my 3rd level Halfling Wizard go against a 5th level Human Wizard NPC. I took him down in two turns. :D It just goes to show how much your luck can change. EDIT: Uh, yeah. Last night, I was fortunate if I rolled anything over a 6. Not good. Failed nearly all of my checks, and only did ONE DECENT attack the entire night. Hopefully next game will go much better.
Ace_of_time 04-12-07, 01:54 PM	Luck is in the mind of the person. If they think they have bad luck then they will not let them self see the good rolls and all the see is bad ones. And the same is true of good luck. Dice that roll high means the are made that way ( by flaw or what ever else can cause this) and the same is true for bad rolls. If you combine the 2, I could see how someone might think there is bad luck in the dice.
tharivol266 04-12-07, 03:28 PM	luck, magic, divine influence; just three names for the same force. all three are unproven, all three provide amazing results and all three comfort those who belive in them. there is no reason to argue over the name. for if a rose went by any other name would it not smell as sweet?
Ace_of_time 04-12-07, 03:45 PM	You could have used a quote from the one with three witches. ha ha ha
Zealot_Reborn 04-12-07, 03:58 PM	Being a master of horrid, horrid dice rolling, I will give you my top 10 tips for the horrid dice roller. 1) roll the dice on a different surface. Are you rolling onto a whiteboard? roll on a table. On a table? roll on the oversized d&d books; complete warrior usually works for me. 2) perhaps its your style of rolling? one guy i saw couldn't roll high because he would just hunch over and drop the dice. Throw those dice like a man! get some spin on the dice! 3) don't hammer the dice; SLEDGEHAMMER them. and wear shinguards when you do; i've had more than enough bruised shins when dice that were hammered flew out from under the hammer and hit me. 4) Bury the dice, with a full memorial service. Put the spirits of the dying dice to rest. 5) Firecrackers. Tape the dice to them. Light 'em up. 6) Find a game system where you're rewarded for rolling low. Or play paranoia, when rolling low can create hilarious situations. Or result in death. Don't worry, you have 5 clones to replace you :D 7) Sacrificing a squirrel/kitten/other small rodent to the dice gods. 8) Pact with the devil himself (may require bargaining with the dice gods to get access to him) 9) Burn/melt the dice, sneak onto a space shuttle, and shoot the remains into the sun. 10) Give up on life. If you can't roll a d20 to figuratively 'hit' an imaginary monster in an imaginary world, you just can't cut it in the real world.
V8122 04-12-07, 05:21 PM	I can't tell if this is suposed to be a joke or not. Is it? If it is a joke, then you need to include something like a smiley face, or something slightly more obviously absurd. If it wasn't intended as a joke, then it is simply wrong. "Honestly, this has been proven." Really? By who? The same guys who proved that the world was flat? Or that Pepsi tastes better than Coke? Please provide the name of the qualified researcher who has proven this, along with the name of the peer reviewed academic journal in which his research appears. TIME magazine And everyone knows that George Bush isn't human.:D
Sigst 04-13-07, 02:34 AM	Ask the DM to change the mechanics slightly. Your result is NOT the number on you d20, but 21 minus the result (so a "20" will be a "1", a "19" will be a "2") and so on. Once that is implemented you will find the 20 popping up all the time, and the natural 1 will be a thing of the past. I'm sure Murphy's Law comes into play here... Sig
Illeveun Bloodblaze 04-13-07, 11:57 PM	I beat my dice: regularly. Always works.
StoneStokes 04-14-07, 12:36 AM	...still waiting for the OP to post his die rolls to show us how bad his luck is...
Holy_Beholder 04-14-07, 11:35 PM	I have two really lucky dice. I painted each of the sides with a different metallic paint, then put a glassy thing over it. I never roll the 1 I painted lead over, but the 20 I painted aluminum over shows up all the time;) . Also, extracting part of the dice to make air bubbles under your D20 is a very effective luck charm.;)
PwnageLlama 04-15-07, 01:44 AM	You should have taken the Luck domain!
tharivol266 04-15-07, 02:02 PM	Also, extracting part of the dice to make air bubbles under your D20 is a very effective luck charm.;) how exactly do you manage that one without changing the dice visibly?
Everdreaming 04-15-07, 04:04 PM	I know what you mean. Once, because I was rolling so terribly, my DM had me make a check to put a stone key in a lock(Actually I asked for the check). He set a DC of 3. I rolled...............a 2. I could not figure out where the key went. As an ingame reccomendations, try getting all the luck feats you can. They are in complete scoundrel. They let you make all sorts of rerolls.
ORC_Nashira 04-15-07, 06:04 PM	There was actually a study done with D6's I believe that states 1's are rolled more often than any other number. Quite interesting really. My best advice, try different surfaces to roll on, a dice box -vs- the tabletop might provide more or less bounce for them. Also, to avoid uneven "loaded" dice stick with either solid old school dice or clear see-through dice so you can make sure there are no air bubbles that would make for uneven rolling. The older sharper edged dice also seem to roll a bit nicer. Another thing to consider is how are you rolling your dice; underhand, overhand, random, or from the side like a frisbee? Find what works and stick with it! Good luck! Nash
tharivol266 04-15-07, 07:26 PM	personally i get my best results when i throw one die at a time with alot of top spin but very little actual force so that it doesnt go very far.
hiroshimahamster 04-16-07, 08:31 AM	My brother complains about this all the time. It came to a point when he decided to buy a new d20. Turns out that his old one just hated him cos I have now acquired it (he was afraid that the bad luck would rub off onto his new one so he gave it to me) and it rolls sweet, sweet criticals for me... But maybe I'm just lucky - I nearly TPKed my party 2 sessions ago with a CR16 undead against a party of 5 ecl 15 and 1 ecl 12 (DMPC) characters, one of whom had a tiger companion! I did roll well for initiative (total was 26... highest player rolled a 24...), but he was the only only thing they were fighting at the time, and he only had two attacks a round (martial-based character but with some spells thrown in)! And those who question the power of the dice... Shame on you... My dice are lucky...at least when I use them they are! Mmm... maybe that just makes me lucky...and my players unlucky...
Witch 04-16-07, 08:35 AM	And those who question the power of the dice... Shame on you... I like being rational. If you want shame to come over me - fine, but it won't be because of that rationality.
levante19 04-16-07, 08:37 AM	buy loaded dice!
hiroshimahamster 04-16-07, 08:44 AM	I like being rational. If you want shame to come over me - fine, but it won't be because of that rationality. You obviously mistook what I meant - good and bad rolls can really change a game's outcome. Some dice are loaded, granted, but some people are 'unlucky' or 'lucky' or at least viewed in that way. I am usually rational myself as a scientist but in game I can be as irrational as I like so :P. It's only a game anyway! Note: I hate all this talk of probability of rolling certain numbers because I had to do maths coursework on a similiar thing and got bored out of my skull, so excuse me and my slight rant...
Zanedor 04-16-07, 02:04 PM	The problem is that such ignorance tends to spread into other parts of your life. Look only towards, say, homeopathy to notice how naïve people are. I'm not surprised. For some reason, many famous mathematicians are pretty queer folk. Witch there's a line between being the rational sober second thought and being obsessed whith rationalaty to the point where you shove it down peoples throats for some reason. Look I am a person who thinks rationally and logically. Even then there are some things that may work in some situations (Ex: Carrying your dice with you for the day makes them roll beter.) that can not be scientifically or logically explained but I accept that it works and have no problomes with it. So please stop over reacting and attacking peoples beliefs just because they make you uncomfortable or you feel threatened by them.
Witch 04-16-07, 03:22 PM	(Ex: Carrying your dice with you for the day makes them roll beter.) This is superstition. Prove it with a statistical study. So please stop over reacting and attacking peoples beliefs just because they make you uncomfortable or you feel threatened by them. People kill other people over beliefs they that are unproven. More than they do over beliefs that are proven. People go to homeopathic doctors when they've got cancer, instead of going to a real doctor, because of beliefs that are unproven. This allows the cancer to spread, so these people will die. People sell their homes underpriced "because they're filled with negative energies" because of beliefs that are unproven. Such irrational beliefs cause incredible amounts of harm. Though the luck supposedly inherent in dice is only a minimal issue, the mindset is the same, and it will spread unto the point where it does harm.
Shalaska 04-16-07, 03:31 PM	While people do dumb things like that because of superstition it hurts noone else and sometimes helps others. Going to quack doctors because it makes you feel better even if you arn't getting better hurts noone. Selling your house undervalued only hurts you but will help the person buying it alot. Luck is the same way, it hurts noone and so even if unproven should just be left alone. As for the die problem, statistcally you will have a 5% chance to roll any given number, however if you know anything about statistics then you know that value changes based on previous rolls. Take the earlier flipping a coin example. If you flip a coin 100 times you should on average get 50 heads and 50 tails. If you have flipped it 50 times and gotten all heads then either the coin is weighted, you are a talented flipper who is doing this on purpose, or all else being equal it could just have been luck. If it was just luck then the chances of getting tails on the next flip have increased from 50% although I do not remember the exact formula and so I cannot tell you by how much. I do remeber doing problems like this in calculus though so I do know that it changes
Witch 04-16-07, 04:14 PM	Going to quack doctors because it makes you feel better even if you arn't getting better hurts noone. It makes you die. Something you likely don't want, or you'd simply not go see any sort of doctor at all, quack or real. Selling your house undervalued only hurts you but will help the person buying it alot. It hurts you and the rest of your family. These people don't want to sell their house, not because of anything but these unexistant energies. Such things ruins families and allows charlatans to abuse you. What if some quack suddenly turns up, selling "charms of good luck" for 500 dollars? And people who believe in luck buy them, even going into debt for it? If you have flipped it 50 times and gotten all heads then either the coin is weighted, you are a talented flipper who is doing this on purpose, or all else being equal it could just have been luck. If it was just luck then the chances of getting tails on the next flip have increased from 50% although I do not remember the exact formula and so I cannot tell you by how much. They will not have increased. If you have tossed heads 50 times in a row, you have a 50% chance to toss it again.
tharivol266 04-16-07, 04:16 PM	Though the luck supposedly inherent in dice is only a minimal issue, the mindset is the same, and it will spread unto the point where it does harm. i think that is a little drastic. i think rationally about everything in life but when i sit down to game i choose not to be rational. i belive in the dice gods and almost all of the dice superstitions and thats it. i know its stupid and irrational but who cares. for the most part we are a bunch of adults playing a game of make believe(which by the way in my expirience was generally not even considered by age 10 or 11). We're being irrational already so why not just run with the fun?
tharivol266 04-16-07, 04:25 PM	It makes you die. Something you likely don't want, or you'd simply not go see any sort of doctor at all, quack or real. debatable It hurts you and the rest of your family. These people don't want to sell their house, not because of anything but these unexistant energies. Such things ruins families and allows charlatans to abuse you. chances are that if you were selling your house and you had a family that you would ask everyone for their input on how much you should charge. moot point. I also dont see how the selling of a house at a low price automatically leads to family disentions and reliance on prostitutes What if some quack suddenly turns up, selling "charms of good luck" for 500 dollars? And people who believe in luck buy them, even going into debt for it? then they are stupid and dont deserve the money. yes i said it. They will not have increased. If you have tossed heads 50 times in a row, you have a 50% chance to toss it again. the 50/50 odds are based on the long term results. while there are indeed only two possible outcomes there are too many variables to set the odds specifically on any one number. lets take a penny for instance. the tails side has the lincoln memorial which has alot of little dips in it. these dips alter the flow of air and the air resistence so this could possibly effect the odds by oh say 1% in either direction (No i didnt do the math so dont complain)
Shalaska 04-16-07, 04:42 PM	They will not have increased. If you have tossed heads 50 times in a row, you have a 50% chance to toss it again. ((d-p+1)*10^(d-p))/(10^d) is the formula for calculating the chance of a series of results from a random generator such as a coin flip or a die roll where d is the number of results such as 50 being the number of flips and p is the stretch of the same number which in this case is 50. If you do the math here you can see that there is a 10fold less chance of flipping another head in a row with each consecutive flip making the chance of a tails more and more likely. That is pure statistics and unless you are willing to be irrational must be held as truth.
Zanedor 04-16-07, 05:05 PM	This is superstition. Prove it with a statistical study. Frist off that was a random example, you don't have to spaz at me for it. :eek: People kill other people over beliefs they that are unproven. More than they do over beliefs that are proven. People go to homeopathic doctors when they've got cancer, instead of going to a real doctor, because of beliefs that are unproven. This allows the cancer to spread, so these people will die. People sell their homes underpriced "because they're filled with negative energies" because of beliefs that are unproven. Such irrational beliefs cause incredible amounts of harm. Though the luck supposedly inherent in dice is only a minimal issue, the mindset is the same, and it will spread unto the point where it does harm. And second: :OMG! This is dice DICE:dice: we are talking about!:uh-huh: It's not like we are all going to kill each other over who's idea for dealing with "bad dice" is better so don't treat it the same as a religious dispute. I agree that no good will come if you believe everything you hear, but this is DICE how may people do you know who went from "I'm just a average guy" , to "OMG I NEED TO SPEND $500 ON A HORSESHOE!" because they believed that their dice where unlucky or lucky.:nonono: For gods sake don't make a federal case over it!:mymy:
Witch 04-16-07, 06:07 PM	((d-p+1)*10^(d-p))/(10^d) is the formula for calculating the chance of a series of results from a random generator such as a coin flip or a die roll where d is the number of results such as 50 being the number of flips and p is the stretch of the same number which in this case is 50. If you do the math here you can see that there is a 10fold less chance of flipping another head in a row with each consecutive flip making the chance of a tails more and more likely. That is pure statistics and unless you are willing to be irrational must be held as truth. If you're saying that If I throw heads 10 times Then My chance of rolling tails the eleventh toss has increased, you are committing a logical fallacy. The only thing you can say is that it's unlikely to roll 11 heads in a row - because it simply a 50% chance eleven times. To roll 10 heads and then a tails has a 0,5^11 probability. As does rolling 10 heads and then another heads. There is no difference in probability.
Witch 04-16-07, 06:13 PM	the 50/50 odds are based on the long term results. while there are indeed only two possible outcomes there are too many variables to set the odds specifically on any one number. lets take a penny for instance. the tails side has the lincoln memorial which has alot of little dips in it. these dips alter the flow of air and the air resistence so this could possibly effect the odds by oh say 1% in either direction (No i didnt do the math so dont complain) If you haven't done the math, don't bring up percentages ;) - just say "a little". I don't disagree. I do state that this has nothing to do with "luck" in the sense as people here seem to see it.
StoneStokes 04-17-07, 01:15 AM	*snip* ....I do remeber doing problems like this in calculus though so I do know that it changes You should ask for your money back. You did not have a very good calculus class. Witch is completely correct on this issue: If one flips a fair coin, the probability that it comes up heads is 50%. It doesn't matter how many times the coin has been flipped before. It doesn't matter if it was flipped a million times and came up heads every time. Coins do not remember how many times they have been flipped. Coins do not remember coming up heads. They don't have brains, nor do they have computer processors. They have no genetic material to store "genetic memories." They're coins. In other news, there is nothing about the number 23 that is particularly more interesting than other numbers.
Krompt 04-17-07, 02:39 AM	Getting BACK to the subject of how to help with Unlucky Dice, no matter how irrational it is for dice to be anything but dice and how this is all in our minds and its stupid to believe in anything other then what science can prove as true. Your best bet...is not to follow the examples set forth by my group, Which includes but is not limited to. Note that these are actual anti badluck riturals set forth by my group (and me...) **Hanging the D20 in a little coil around your neck while your acting the lead in a play, for each night the play is being produced. **Taking the D20 to a church is dropping it into holy water(and then getting 'Sage' Wisdom from the Priest of the Church), and then going to every other church (for whatever religion, including the Scientology church). **Set the D20 on a self made platform in the windowsill for an entire night, only letting the D20 sit from sundown to sunup never allowing the sun to touch it (Drow Fan...) **Perform a marrage between the old D20 and the New D20 and let them spend 1 full Week alone in a room undisturbed in the middle of the bed. Then After that week is up, buy an entirely new D20 and paint it the combination color of both the D20s. **Set the D20 infront of the TV and let it watch a Godzilla marathon **And finally..my ritural. The first D20 I ever had I did a mixture of various riturals to get it to roll better, then I finally said 'If you dont roll well I'm going to Slice you in half infront of all the other dice and my new D20', and the dice said 'Screw you' and rolled a natural one on its next roll. So I took all my dice outside and set them on a chair to watch and sure enough I took a sword to the d20 and split it right in half. I walked over and set the two remains of the die infront of the others and took them all back inside in the same hand as the 'dead' die...rolled each one and the D4 came up a 4, the D6 a 6, the D8 an 8, the D10 a 10, the D12 a 12, and the D20 came up as a natural 20. From then on I wrapped the remains of the d20 around the handle of the sword and I take the sword with me to each gaming season, never roll anything lower then a 15 in the past 2 months and the other dies rarely roll lower then a 2 in most cases (the d12 never gets rolled so dunno if its still scared)
northern_bear 04-17-07, 04:47 AM	((d-p+1)*10^(d-p))/(10^d) is the formula for calculating the chance of a series of results from a random generator such as a coin flip or a die roll where d is the number of results such as 50 being the number of flips and p is the stretch of the same number which in this case is 50. If you do the math here you can see that there is a 10fold less chance of flipping another head in a row with each consecutive flip making the chance of a tails more and more likely. That is pure statistics and unless you are willing to be irrational must be held as truth. The probability of flipping 10 heads in a row is 0.5^10 or one in 1024. The probability of flipping 11 heads in a row is 0.5^11 or one in 2048. But, the probability that the 11th coin toss will come up heads, given that the previous 10 have already come up heads, is only 0.5. Nothing that has happened in the past has any influence on a random event that hasn't happend yet. Put another way, out of 11 coin tosses, there are exactly 2048 possible sequences of results. You could get HHTHTTHHHTT, you could get HHHHTTTTHHT, you could get TTTTHTTHHTH, etc etc. There are 2048 possibilities. But after you have made the first 10 flips, you have already determined the first 10 results, which limits the number of results you could be left with. If the first 10 flips come up heads, then there are only two possible results you can now end up with after your 11 flips. They are HHHHHHHHHHH (11 heads), or HHHHHHHHHHT (10 heads and one tail). Having already eliminated all other possiblities, there is now an equal chance of either outcome. If a futre event is truely random (a coin toss) then past events have no impact on future outcomes.
northern_bear 04-17-07, 04:58 AM	It hurts you and the rest of your family. These people don't want to sell their house, not because of anything but these unexistant energies. Such things ruins families and allows charlatans to abuse you. What if some quack suddenly turns up, selling "charms of good luck" for 500 dollars? And people who believe in luck buy them, even going into debt for it? I agree with you about probabilities, but I don't accept that irrational necessarily harm the person who believes them. They can be harmful, but often they are not. And several of your examples I find non harmful. If a person believes a house is haunted, then they should sell it. That belief may be irrational, but the resulting decision to sell the house is entirely rational, given their beliefs. By selling the house, they have made themselves better off. They may be financially poorer, but they are happier over all because now they don't have to live in constant fear of ghosts. Yes, fear of ghosts is irrational. But can you prove that it is "rational" to enjoy having a nice view. Why do appartements on the 20 floor with a good view sell for more than an identical appartement on the 3rd floor with no view. Some people like to have a nice view, and are willing to pay a lot for the priviledge. Other people don't give a hoot about the view. Is one belief rational and the other irrational? People care about all sorts of different things when buying a house. What is important to one person, another doesn't care about. Making personal purchasing decisions should be based on personal preferences, whatever those preferences may be. This does not hurt either the people making the choices, nor society as a whole. Regarding your example of people selling "lucky charms", I don't think this is necessarily bad for society. I don't want to get into a debate over whether religion is ultimately a force for good or evil in the world, but I will simply point out that billions of people around the world routinely shell out money for things like rosarys, crucafixes, minoras, yamakas, statues of vishnu, church repair funds, etc. They do so based on an (arguably irrational) belief in an afterlife, a divine power, or the power of faith to affect their daily lives. And these people are not usually accused of being irrational, or of contributing to the worsening of society, as you are inclined to accuse the people who believe in luck of doing.
Witch 04-17-07, 07:35 AM	I'm going to drop out of this discussion, as it's gotten to religion, a topic I wished to avoid in this debate.
northern_bear 04-17-07, 07:51 AM	I'm going to drop out of this discussion, as it's gotten to religion, a topic I wished to avoid in this debate. I was not attempting to start any sort of religious debate. And perhaps I shouldn't have brought it up at all. I only wanted to make the point that many people have beliefs for which there is no scientific "proof". You may or may not agree with those beliefs. But it is not irrational for the people who have those beliefs to act upon them. Nor are such beliefs necessarily at odds with people enjoying the game (be it the game of life, or the game of D&D). If always rolling the dice with your left hand makes you enjoy the game more, because you believe it is lucky, then go for it. And if you think a house might be haunted, then don't live there. It's your life, and your game. Enjoy it.
Witch 04-17-07, 07:59 AM	I only wanted to make the point that many people have beliefs for which there is no scientific "proof". You may or may not agree with those beliefs. But it is not irrational for the people who have those beliefs to act upon them. There is, however, a difference between beliefs which are almost certainly false, and those upon which tastes simply differ. I believe superstition to be in the first category, while the preferences for a garden view to be in the second.
northern_bear 04-17-07, 08:45 AM	There is, however, a difference between beliefs which are almost certainly false, and those upon which tastes simply differ. I believe superstition to be in the first category, while the preferences for a garden view to be in the second. . . . People go to homeopathic doctors when they've got cancer, instead of going to a real doctor, because of beliefs that are unproven. This allows the cancer to spread, so these people will die. People sell their homes underpriced "because they're filled with negative energies" because of beliefs that are unproven. Such irrational beliefs cause incredible amounts of harm. Though the luck supposedly inherent in dice is only a minimal issue, the mindset is the same, and it will spread unto the point where it does harm. (ephasis added) Between beliefs that are "almost certainly false" and "just a matter of oppinion" there is no clear distinction. Rather there is a continum of beliefs. Where are you going to draw the line? Consider someon who has the belief that: "This house has a nice garden. I enjoy sitting in the garden. It makes me feel at peace. I would be willing to pay a bit extra for this house." Is that irrational? Is the person's belief in a peaceful garden "almost certainly false." Is this statement so far removed from the person who says "This house makes me feel uneasy. I'm not sure what it is, but there's something spooky about it that just makes me feel uncompfortable. I don't think I'll buy this house." Why would you classify a desire for a nice garden as "oppinion" whereas a desire not to live in a haunted house is "irrational". That's a pretty fine line you're trying to draw. And I for one am not going to try to draw any line at all, comdemning some beliefs while accepting others. Those of us who actually understand probability and statistics(you, me, many others who have posted), have a duty to try to explain the way probability works. But if people prefer to believe in their lucky dice, that is their choice. I will not condemn them for a basically harmless personal belief. I completely disagree with your premise that "Such irrational beliefs cause incredible amounts of harm." Some irrational beliefs are harmful to society. Like whitch hunts, or serious gambling addictions. But many other irrational beliefs are completely harmless. And some may even be socially beneficial. For example, there is no scientific proof that being nice to people will provide "good Karma", but if an irrational belief in Karma encourages people to be nice, then it is of social benefit. I also do not believe your statement that believing in lucky dice creates a certain mindset, and that irrationality will then spread to areas where it causes harm. Almost all the gamers I know believe in a certain amount of luck and ritual related to their dice. But very few of them have developed a mindset that is spreading to other areas of their lives where it is causing harm. Do you have any evidence that believing in lucky dice puts people on a slippery slope towards belief in witchcraft, ghosts, or magic?
Witch 04-17-07, 08:51 AM	Is that irrational? Is the person's belief in a peaceful garden "almost certainly false." Is this statement so far removed from the person who says "This house makes me feel uneasy. I'm not sure what it is, but there's something spooky about it that just makes me feel uncompfortable. I don't think I'll buy this house." Those aren't the feelings I meant. What I meant with my house example is that you're living in a house you enjoy and love, until someone comes along and tells you it's full of negative energies, so you sell it. Not the harmless one that says "this house doesn't make me feel comfortable, so I won't buy it". Do you have any evidence that believing in lucky dice puts people on a slippery slope towards belief in witchcraft, ghosts, or magic? No, I unfortunately do not. What I think is statistically provable, is that when small measures of irrationality are considered more and more acceptable in a society, larger ones are considered more acceptable as well. If you already believe in magic, it's not that far out to believe that witches sleep with the devil.
northern_bear 04-17-07, 08:59 AM	. . . What I think is statistically provable, is that when small measures of irrationality are considered more and more acceptable in a society, larger ones are considered more acceptable as well. If you already believe in magic, it's not that far out to believe that witches sleep with the devil. Irrational beliefs are already overwhelmingly tollerated by our society. Or, if you don't like the term "irrational" then lets just say that 80% of the people on the planet hold certain beliefs that are not scientifcally verifiable, and which profoundly influence their lives. If you want to try to eliminate irrational beliefs, then you've got bigger fish to tackle than simply gamers who believe in lucky dice. If you do want to make the world a better place by making it more rational, then I would suggest starting with the irrational beliefs that do the most harm. I don't think belief in lucky dice falls into this category.
Witch 04-17-07, 09:01 AM	But I can criticize belief in lucky dice on these boards. The same doesn't go for those other things :)
Zanedor 04-17-07, 10:07 AM	But I can criticize belief in lucky dice on these boards. The same doesn't go for those other things :) Don't ask me why but for some reason that sounded more the a little rude Witch.:mad: :ahem:
metamind 04-17-07, 11:31 AM	You have to find a cleric of Pelor, and get him to exorcize your dice. Its the only way. Or you can try the dice roller on the dnd home page.
the_narrator 04-17-07, 11:43 AM	So, completely ignoring all this probability hoo-haw that bores me to tears, I'm fairly certain my DM has the ability to drain luck from a group of people. Normally when starting a game, my groups use the 4D6, dropping the lowest and rerolling ones to determine our attributes. This usually give the entire party a range of scores, some good, some bad (or in some cases, some REALLY good and some REALLY bad). Recently we started a new campaign with a new DM, using the same attribute rolling technique. I have -never- seen rolls that bad in my entire D&D career. My brother and I each rerolled our stats at least six times, each time coming up with either a whole slew of terrible scores (I'm talking five stats below 11 with one 15) or one darn good stat and five other abysmal stats. We were on the verge of just taking the point buy (something which we all hate doing on principle) when we finally managed to get a group of decent scores. Since then, I have never seen a group that can roll more natural 1's on skill checks, saves, attack rolls, and what have you. My character has probably spent more time picking up or buying replacements for fumbled weapons than actually hitting his foes, and this game has been going weekly for going on three months now.
northern_bear 04-17-07, 11:49 AM	My brother and I each rerolled our stats at least six times, each time coming up with either a whole slew of terrible scores (I'm talking five stats below 11 with one 15) or one darn good stat and five other abysmal stats. We were on the verge of just taking the point buy (something which we all hate doing on principle) when we finally managed to get a group of decent scores. You hate the point buy system? I'm not surprised, if the alternative is to keep rolling stats for ever until you come up with ones you like.
the_narrator 04-17-07, 03:48 PM	You hate the point buy system? I'm not surprised, if the alternative is to keep rolling stats for ever until you come up with ones you like. Nice, some underhanded belittling because I prefer a different play style. Way to go. At any rate, we normally follow the rule of one total reroll. I dislike point buy because I'd rather have the chance at a number of good stats rather than an array of decent ones. I see the D20 system as designed to be random at its core, and find no reason to keep that concept from character generation.
Rickiel 04-17-07, 03:53 PM	If your dice are very unlucky send your problematic dice to a professional probability counselor. Hopefully the underlying issue causing LDS (Luck Deficiency Syndrome) will be uncovered and taken care of. Sessions begin 5 cents an hour.
Ace_of_time 04-17-07, 11:19 PM	How about this one My players roll all the 20 sides of all their dice just to see which one likes them more that game. I just have to sit there and laugh.
northern_bear 04-18-07, 04:31 AM	Nice, some underhanded belittling because I prefer a different play style. Way to go. I was trying to be humorous, and did not intend to be insulting. Sorry.
the_narrator 04-18-07, 09:53 AM	Forgiven. :)
Riplox 04-20-07, 01:13 AM	If you're having such bad luck, why not talk to your DM and see if s/he'll let you reverse the dice number. Count a 1 as a 20, 2 as a 19, and so on. If you start landing high rolls for real, then you probably have a curse on you and you should just stop rolling dice...forever.
Masakari4488 04-20-07, 01:14 PM	**And finally..my ritural. The first D20 I ever had I did a mixture of various riturals to get it to roll better, then I finally said 'If you dont roll well I'm going to Slice you in half infront of all the other dice and my new D20', and the dice said 'Screw you' and rolled a natural one on its next roll. So I took all my dice outside and set them on a chair to watch and sure enough I took a sword to the d20 and split it right in half. I walked over and set the two remains of the die infront of the others and took them all back inside in the same hand as the 'dead' die...rolled each one and the D4 came up a 4, the D6 a 6, the D8 an 8, the D10 a 10, the D12 a 12, and the D20 came up as a natural 20. From then on I wrapped the remains of the d20 around the handle of the sword and I take the sword with me to each gaming season, never roll anything lower then a 15 in the past 2 months and the other dies rarely roll lower then a 2 in most cases (the d12 never gets rolled so dunno if its still scared) I'm totally doing this now. :rofl:
Hideous Phidias 04-20-07, 03:29 PM	Have you tried dark magic? Maybe a sacrfic to a demon devil or powerful dragon. I hear they like virgins, so pick the one guy at the table who is the geekest and try your lock. If that does not work then maybe just try using his dice.... he won't be needing them anymore.
ReaderOfPosts 04-20-07, 06:41 PM	I personally would start putting propaganda posters up with smiling d20s landing on 20s saying "Only you can beat the bourgeousie!" with pictures of capitalist carricatures dying to crits from scythes. Give them an ideology to fight for: Vive la Revolution! Statistically making yourself less vulnerable to luck, see if your DM will let you trade d20 rolls for 2d10s (with a two being an autofail). It'll get much more average rolls and a slightly better average (11 rather than 10.5), but you won't get many crits or autopasses. I wouldn't normally take it if offered, but it might be worth it if you really don't want to risk more bad luck.
northern_bear 04-23-07, 04:33 AM	. . ., see if your DM will let you trade d20 rolls for 2d10s (with a two being an autofail). It'll get much more average rolls and a slightly better average (11 rather than 10.5), but you won't get many crits or autopasses. I wouldn't normally take it if offered, but it might be worth it if you really don't want to risk more bad luck. If you do decide to do that, and your DM lets you, then you could also adjust auto fail levels and and crit levels. You have only a 1% chance of rolling a two. You have a 2% chance of rolling a three. And you have a 3% chance of rolling a four. So cumulatively, you have a 6% chance of rolling a four or less. Compare this with the 5% chance that you normally have to roll a natural one on a d20. So, treat any result of two, three, or four as if it was a natural one. At the other end of the spectrum, treat any result of 18, 19, or 20 as if it was a natural 20 on your d20. If your weapon has a threat range of 19-20, then treat any roll of 17 or higher as a threat. If the threat range is 18-20, then treat any roll of 16 or higher as a threat.
turalisj 04-23-07, 07:22 AM	Can this thread please get back on topic?
Castegyre 04-23-07, 07:37 AM	I made a special box to store all of my dice in. It's black and req laquer covered in pictures of Bettie Page and Vargas pin-up art as well as a few other minor touches. The inside bottom is lined with felt. I was having really horrid dice rolls nd decided to take the mo-jo of making my own dice bag to a whole new level. It worked like a charm :)
turalisj 04-23-07, 07:43 AM	I have a set of all iron dice. They are super heavy, but alway give me good rolls. And hurt when used in a sling shot :P
shadowwalkerinc 04-24-07, 04:43 AM	I don't know if any one else wrote this but... Look at your dice. Are they rounded? Never roll rounded dice. They never land well. They keep rolling & tend not to work with how you roll. Also look how you roll your dice. Every one rolls them differently. Best way is to watch your rolls. See what lands the most. Since you roll poorly, keep your dice numbers faced up in a low number. When you pick them up & roll them, it may help. I snap my hand forward when I roll & I place low numbers up. I tend to roll higher then I do low. Also heavy dice can help you as well. Metal dice work wonders if you have a strong roll. I have a set of Steel & they roll rather well when I need them most.