Help keeping my glass cannon alive [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help keeping my glass cannon alive [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sakaki22
02-11-08, 12:12 PM For storyline reasons, my barbarian character left our party. At the time, she was the primary damage dealer, and had the most hit points of the group, literally capable of "tanking" on hit points alone. I eventually came to the decision that I should replace a damage dealer with a damage dealer, not to leave gaps in party dynamics.

So I replaced my straight Barbarian 9 with a Thri-kreen Psychic Warrior 6 (Yes, ECL 10. Characters levelled between the two characters, DM allowed it). Swapping out on Greataxe for four Bastard Swords, losing Rage for Psionics, and most dangerously, losing almost 2/3rds of my available hit points.

The characters damage output is, for our group at least, ridiculous. In our short encounters since his debut, nothing has been able to stand in his way. However, it seems like every time something big and pointy comes his way, 3/4ths of his hit points are simply gone. As a party with no Cleric (A Bard, a Paladin, and a VoP Monk with Stigmata providing the healing during adventures) that leads me to feel like almost a hinderance to the party.

Any advice on keeping my character alive? I suppose Spring Attack could prove useful, but I've invested no feats into the tree, and don't want to give up multi-weapon fighting.
DrMorganes
02-11-08, 01:14 PM Some stats would be helpful here. AC, armor, ability scores, powers known, etc, will all play a major part in any useful input.

That said, off the top of my head, if Vigor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm) isn't on your list of Powers Known, ask your DM if he'll allow you to swap it for something else. It'll take half your PP for the day, but you can get 30 temporary HP as a standard action when fully augmented.

You've also just discovered why using a race with a LA of +2 or greater is a Very Bad Idea. You've lost FOUR class levels that aren't ever going to come back. Very soon your BAB is going to be insufficient to actually hit a CR 10 encounter (assuming it's not already at that point). If you like the idea of the Psychic Warrior, see if your DM will take pity on you and allow you to come back as a half-giant or maenad. Stick with the TWF tree if you wish; the higher BAB from the added class levels will actually mean you'll be more effective. Fewer attacks with a greater chance to hit beats more attacks with lower BAB.
solbergb
02-14-08, 08:53 PM spring attack will render your damage irrelevant. You clearly rely on full attacks.

The huge level adjustment is most of why you are so fragile. Your saves and hitpoints will be way behind, plus simple things like amulet of health are less effective. You are also exceedingly vulnerable to effects like blasphemy.

#1, you need a way to heal between combats that doesn't suck out the very limited healing of your party.

#2, your party has only one big heal in it (the paladin) and also no battlefield control to shield you and break up the attackers. You have GOT to be more routinely durable. All you can really do is invest heavily in armor class and do what you can to boost saves/hitpoints. Consider sources of temporary hitpoints.

Your party, quite honestly, has big gaping holes in capability.

You're missing battlefield control entirely. The closest thing the bard can do in that area is illusions and grease...the other two chars provide nothing.

You're missing mobility almost entirely. Again the bard can help if he's packing dim door, haste and phantom steed, but nobody can fly without item support, for example.

You're missing healing almost entirely. Just one big heal from the paladin and little dribs and drabs from all three which are fine out of combat but way too slow in combat. Plus no way to recover from energy or ability drain.

You're missing divination almost entirely. Again, only the bard has any ability in this area, and he probably has not taken those spells.

You are missing ranged combat capability almost entirely. Nobody is going to be good at this, although with a bard, your crappy longbow attacks from everyone in the party will do a little damage.

You may also be lacking in scouting, unless your monk or bard are built for it.

Really...instead of a melee damage dealer, you probabably would have been better to do something like a generalist druid. You could provide adequate melee damage, but also some ranged potential, some battlefield control and some transport spells (both strategic, teleport-like and tactical...air-walk or flying mounts via companion/summons), some scouting capability in a pinch. Like the bard you would be stretched into a number of roles, and on any given day you would be spell-slot limited on many of them but your party could at least function more or less normally.

A glass cannon is a luxury for a party that can support it. There are a number of strategies, none of which your party can do. Ie:

1. have a dedicated healer standing next to you
2. have a battlefield control caster focus on letting nobody take swings at you
3. have a good transport-spell caster pop you next to enemies, which you destroy, and pop you away from counterattacks
4. massively debuff enemies so their attacks do little damage
5. massively buff you, so incoming attacks don't do much (eg, a cleric with shield-other on you effectively doubles your hitpoints. Add stoneskin, displacement, magic vestment on armor+animated shield, hero feast, aid and bear endurance and you're much, much tougher)

Your party can do a very small amount of this. (paladin heals. Monk with abundant step might bop you next to or away from an enemy. Bard might manage to dim door you, or hit you with greater invis or whatever, or mess up the enemies depending on his spell mix...but all of these abilitie are very limited in x/day uses) Probably not enough to really make the char viable.

Have you considered a cohort? That costs a feat but could be tuned to making the glass cannon work.
ToastedAmphibian
02-14-08, 09:37 PM Or, if you dont feel like com,pletly ditching your character concept, you could pick diffrent powers.

Vigor is obviously your best bet.
Body adjustment will let you heal yourself, though rather poorly
Body Equilibrium is good, lets you repair ability damage. Actually really handy if you get pounded on by a roper or something.
You can combine empathic transger with BE or Vigor to heal others

And, of course, good old Empathic Transfer, hostile.
They give you damage, you give it back.

Also, ask your paladin to cast shield other on you. Then buy him some cure wands. Between shield other and Vigor, you should be ok in combat, and use Empathic Transger after combat to remove the damage from the paladin and put it back onto your temperary HP before it goes away.

Empathic transfer is a 3rd level power, so if nothing else you can get it as soon as you hit your next level (7)

I belive in teh MIC their is a weapon enhancment that lets your weapon contribute points for manifesting a power. Seeing as you have 4 weapons already, it might be usefull (If exspensive) to get it put on them.

If you find you have trouble hitting things, Pyrokineticist will give you 4 nice long fire whips that are all touch attacks and power attackable. I assume you already have oversized two-weapon fighting.
Lord_Varos
02-14-08, 09:40 PM Here's a quick solution, albeit an imperfect and sort of temporary one. If you trust your ability to deal damage will keep you alive in each encounter if you start with full HP, you can just buy ten or so wands of Cure Light Wounds and give them to the Paladin (with your name written on it with a blue Sharpie if you're really possessive and think people will steal your healing). Each one of these will set you back an astounding 750gp, about one and one-half percent of your total expected wealth, and will heal 275 hit points. If you heal to full HP between encounters, you can survive must more easily.

Also, get a +4 or better Constitution-boost item, stat. Nothing beats 24 extra hit points to help survive 7 commoners with short swords.

Also, see solbergb. He cures what ails you.
Saiyamantis
02-15-08, 02:46 AM You've also just discovered why using a race with a LA of +2 or greater is a Very Bad Idea. You've lost FOUR class levels that aren't ever going to come back. Very soon your BAB is going to be insufficient to actually hit a CR 10 encounter (assuming it's not already at that point). If you like the idea of the Psychic Warrior, see if your DM will take pity on you and allow you to come back as a half-giant or maenad. Stick with the TWF tree if you wish; the higher BAB from the added class levels will actually mean you'll be more effective. Fewer attacks with a greater chance to hit beats more attacks with lower BAB.

Actually, thri-kreen are one of the few higher-LA races I'd consider worth it. You've got a +3 attack bonus courtesy of Strength bonus and Hit Dice, which matches the bonus you'd get from 4 levels of psychic warrior. What you're really missing are the manifester levels and power points you'd be getting from four psychic warrior levels- taking Practiced Manifester will make that hurt a bit less, but it's not a perfect solution.
You should consider taking some powers to improve your defenses- I've found inertial armor and concealing amorpha to be good choices. Combined with careful use of your racial displacement power, you should be able to avoid some of those nasty hits that require so much healing.
Fireclave
02-15-08, 03:32 AM Your whole party would be better off if your healers could had more healing. The Touch of Healing feat in the Complete Champion would grant the paladin or bard effectively free healing, though only up to half a character's max hitpoints. After that point, you'll have to rely on standard healing techniques to get anybody back to full. A single level of Dragon Shaman with the healing aura would provide nearly the same effect.
Sakaki22
02-15-08, 09:08 AM I'd like to thank everybody for their helpful hints. So far me and my DM have settled on changing two of my powers over to Vigor and Body Adustment, and I'm rearranging my feats to take Improved Toughness next level (using the racial levels in Complete Psionic, I gain a feat next level). Also, through those few combat encounters, I admittedly forgot about my racial powers.

But in response to solbergb, how could you make that post without actually knowing what was in the party? I did mention a Paladin, a Bard, and a Monk, but they were mentioned for their healing capabilities. The party continues to include a Rogue (scouting), a Ranger (archery-based and scouting), and a Wizard (generalist, but full of battlefield control, divination, and mobility).

As far as changing characters goes, I have under the wing already a Human Mystic Theruge (item creation specialist) and a Half-Fey Elven Druid (Haven't really selected a speciality for her). Clearly I'm not choosing character concepts for their raw power.
Sinfire Titan
02-15-08, 09:22 AM You want to hit things and not get hit back? Powers like Psionic Lion's Charge, Psionic Blink, Concealing Amorpha, and similar ones will stave off the damage for you.

You don't want to be in reach after you make a full attack? Travel Devotion. A lot of Travel Devotion. You will kill anything after two or three skirmishes via that feat.
RobbyPants
02-15-08, 09:42 AM Fireclave already mentioned the Touch of Healing reserve feat, which might save on spells. For 750gp, you can buy a wand of Lesser Vigor, which is great for out of combat healing (550 hp per wand!). Also for 750 gp, you can get a Healing Belt (MIC).

In addition to using the Vigor power, if you spend a feat on getting a psicrystal and take the Share Pain power as well, you can use Vigor to double the effect (5 HP per PP for both you and your crystal), and split the damage between the two of you. It effectively becomes an HP battery for you. Of course, if it takes any real damage (beyond the temp HP), you need Repair Damage to heal it...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sakaki22 02-11-08, 12:12 PM	For storyline reasons, my barbarian character left our party. At the time, she was the primary damage dealer, and had the most hit points of the group, literally capable of "tanking" on hit points alone. I eventually came to the decision that I should replace a damage dealer with a damage dealer, not to leave gaps in party dynamics. So I replaced my straight Barbarian 9 with a Thri-kreen Psychic Warrior 6 (Yes, ECL 10. Characters levelled between the two characters, DM allowed it). Swapping out on Greataxe for four Bastard Swords, losing Rage for Psionics, and most dangerously, losing almost 2/3rds of my available hit points. The characters damage output is, for our group at least, ridiculous. In our short encounters since his debut, nothing has been able to stand in his way. However, it seems like every time something big and pointy comes his way, 3/4ths of his hit points are simply gone. As a party with no Cleric (A Bard, a Paladin, and a VoP Monk with Stigmata providing the healing during adventures) that leads me to feel like almost a hinderance to the party. Any advice on keeping my character alive? I suppose Spring Attack could prove useful, but I've invested no feats into the tree, and don't want to give up multi-weapon fighting.
DrMorganes 02-11-08, 01:14 PM	Some stats would be helpful here. AC, armor, ability scores, powers known, etc, will all play a major part in any useful input. That said, off the top of my head, if Vigor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm) isn't on your list of Powers Known, ask your DM if he'll allow you to swap it for something else. It'll take half your PP for the day, but you can get 30 temporary HP as a standard action when fully augmented. You've also just discovered why using a race with a LA of +2 or greater is a Very Bad Idea. You've lost FOUR class levels that aren't ever going to come back. Very soon your BAB is going to be insufficient to actually hit a CR 10 encounter (assuming it's not already at that point). If you like the idea of the Psychic Warrior, see if your DM will take pity on you and allow you to come back as a half-giant or maenad. Stick with the TWF tree if you wish; the higher BAB from the added class levels will actually mean you'll be more effective. Fewer attacks with a greater chance to hit beats more attacks with lower BAB.
solbergb 02-14-08, 08:53 PM	spring attack will render your damage irrelevant. You clearly rely on full attacks. The huge level adjustment is most of why you are so fragile. Your saves and hitpoints will be way behind, plus simple things like amulet of health are less effective. You are also exceedingly vulnerable to effects like blasphemy. #1, you need a way to heal between combats that doesn't suck out the very limited healing of your party. #2, your party has only one big heal in it (the paladin) and also no battlefield control to shield you and break up the attackers. You have GOT to be more routinely durable. All you can really do is invest heavily in armor class and do what you can to boost saves/hitpoints. Consider sources of temporary hitpoints. Your party, quite honestly, has big gaping holes in capability. You're missing battlefield control entirely. The closest thing the bard can do in that area is illusions and grease...the other two chars provide nothing. You're missing mobility almost entirely. Again the bard can help if he's packing dim door, haste and phantom steed, but nobody can fly without item support, for example. You're missing healing almost entirely. Just one big heal from the paladin and little dribs and drabs from all three which are fine out of combat but way too slow in combat. Plus no way to recover from energy or ability drain. You're missing divination almost entirely. Again, only the bard has any ability in this area, and he probably has not taken those spells. You are missing ranged combat capability almost entirely. Nobody is going to be good at this, although with a bard, your crappy longbow attacks from everyone in the party will do a little damage. You may also be lacking in scouting, unless your monk or bard are built for it. Really...instead of a melee damage dealer, you probabably would have been better to do something like a generalist druid. You could provide adequate melee damage, but also some ranged potential, some battlefield control and some transport spells (both strategic, teleport-like and tactical...air-walk or flying mounts via companion/summons), some scouting capability in a pinch. Like the bard you would be stretched into a number of roles, and on any given day you would be spell-slot limited on many of them but your party could at least function more or less normally. A glass cannon is a luxury for a party that can support it. There are a number of strategies, none of which your party can do. Ie: 1. have a dedicated healer standing next to you 2. have a battlefield control caster focus on letting nobody take swings at you 3. have a good transport-spell caster pop you next to enemies, which you destroy, and pop you away from counterattacks 4. massively debuff enemies so their attacks do little damage 5. massively buff you, so incoming attacks don't do much (eg, a cleric with shield-other on you effectively doubles your hitpoints. Add stoneskin, displacement, magic vestment on armor+animated shield, hero feast, aid and bear endurance and you're much, much tougher) Your party can do a very small amount of this. (paladin heals. Monk with abundant step might bop you next to or away from an enemy. Bard might manage to dim door you, or hit you with greater invis or whatever, or mess up the enemies depending on his spell mix...but all of these abilitie are very limited in x/day uses) Probably not enough to really make the char viable. Have you considered a cohort? That costs a feat but could be tuned to making the glass cannon work.
ToastedAmphibian 02-14-08, 09:37 PM	Or, if you dont feel like com,pletly ditching your character concept, you could pick diffrent powers. Vigor is obviously your best bet. Body adjustment will let you heal yourself, though rather poorly Body Equilibrium is good, lets you repair ability damage. Actually really handy if you get pounded on by a roper or something. You can combine empathic transger with BE or Vigor to heal others And, of course, good old Empathic Transfer, hostile. They give you damage, you give it back. Also, ask your paladin to cast shield other on you. Then buy him some cure wands. Between shield other and Vigor, you should be ok in combat, and use Empathic Transger after combat to remove the damage from the paladin and put it back onto your temperary HP before it goes away. Empathic transfer is a 3rd level power, so if nothing else you can get it as soon as you hit your next level (7) I belive in teh MIC their is a weapon enhancment that lets your weapon contribute points for manifesting a power. Seeing as you have 4 weapons already, it might be usefull (If exspensive) to get it put on them. If you find you have trouble hitting things, Pyrokineticist will give you 4 nice long fire whips that are all touch attacks and power attackable. I assume you already have oversized two-weapon fighting.
Lord_Varos 02-14-08, 09:40 PM	Here's a quick solution, albeit an imperfect and sort of temporary one. If you trust your ability to deal damage will keep you alive in each encounter if you start with full HP, you can just buy ten or so wands of Cure Light Wounds and give them to the Paladin (with your name written on it with a blue Sharpie if you're really possessive and think people will steal your healing). Each one of these will set you back an astounding 750gp, about one and one-half percent of your total expected wealth, and will heal 275 hit points. If you heal to full HP between encounters, you can survive must more easily. Also, get a +4 or better Constitution-boost item, stat. Nothing beats 24 extra hit points to help survive 7 commoners with short swords. Also, see solbergb. He cures what ails you.
Saiyamantis 02-15-08, 02:46 AM	You've also just discovered why using a race with a LA of +2 or greater is a Very Bad Idea. You've lost FOUR class levels that aren't ever going to come back. Very soon your BAB is going to be insufficient to actually hit a CR 10 encounter (assuming it's not already at that point). If you like the idea of the Psychic Warrior, see if your DM will take pity on you and allow you to come back as a half-giant or maenad. Stick with the TWF tree if you wish; the higher BAB from the added class levels will actually mean you'll be more effective. Fewer attacks with a greater chance to hit beats more attacks with lower BAB. Actually, thri-kreen are one of the few higher-LA races I'd consider worth it. You've got a +3 attack bonus courtesy of Strength bonus and Hit Dice, which matches the bonus you'd get from 4 levels of psychic warrior. What you're really missing are the manifester levels and power points you'd be getting from four psychic warrior levels- taking Practiced Manifester will make that hurt a bit less, but it's not a perfect solution. You should consider taking some powers to improve your defenses- I've found inertial armor and concealing amorpha to be good choices. Combined with careful use of your racial displacement power, you should be able to avoid some of those nasty hits that require so much healing.
Fireclave 02-15-08, 03:32 AM	Your whole party would be better off if your healers could had more healing. The Touch of Healing feat in the Complete Champion would grant the paladin or bard effectively free healing, though only up to half a character's max hitpoints. After that point, you'll have to rely on standard healing techniques to get anybody back to full. A single level of Dragon Shaman with the healing aura would provide nearly the same effect.
Sakaki22 02-15-08, 09:08 AM	I'd like to thank everybody for their helpful hints. So far me and my DM have settled on changing two of my powers over to Vigor and Body Adustment, and I'm rearranging my feats to take Improved Toughness next level (using the racial levels in Complete Psionic, I gain a feat next level). Also, through those few combat encounters, I admittedly forgot about my racial powers. But in response to solbergb, how could you make that post without actually knowing what was in the party? I did mention a Paladin, a Bard, and a Monk, but they were mentioned for their healing capabilities. The party continues to include a Rogue (scouting), a Ranger (archery-based and scouting), and a Wizard (generalist, but full of battlefield control, divination, and mobility). As far as changing characters goes, I have under the wing already a Human Mystic Theruge (item creation specialist) and a Half-Fey Elven Druid (Haven't really selected a speciality for her). Clearly I'm not choosing character concepts for their raw power.
Sinfire Titan 02-15-08, 09:22 AM	You want to hit things and not get hit back? Powers like Psionic Lion's Charge, Psionic Blink, Concealing Amorpha, and similar ones will stave off the damage for you. You don't want to be in reach after you make a full attack? Travel Devotion. A lot of Travel Devotion. You will kill anything after two or three skirmishes via that feat.
RobbyPants 02-15-08, 09:42 AM	Fireclave already mentioned the Touch of Healing reserve feat, which might save on spells. For 750gp, you can buy a wand of Lesser Vigor, which is great for out of combat healing (550 hp per wand!). Also for 750 gp, you can get a Healing Belt (MIC). In addition to using the Vigor power, if you spend a feat on getting a psicrystal and take the Share Pain power as well, you can use Vigor to double the effect (5 HP per PP for both you and your crystal), and split the damage between the two of you. It effectively becomes an HP battery for you. Of course, if it takes any real damage (beyond the temp HP), you need Repair Damage to heal it...