Help me Build Kyros Rodan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help me Build Kyros Rodan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kyros_the_spawnslayer
08-26-07, 09:39 PM At an upcoming convention I am planning to start a divine caster character but I have a problem to picking between being a cleric or a favored soul.

The character idea is that this person, a Human named Kyros Rodan (a descenant of Marlow befor his transformation), is choosen by Bahamut to create a temple in hopes of gathering more members to teach them his ways, and of course oppose his nasty sister's minions. And even though he may become the leader/protector (going to branch into Pious Templer) for this temple but also equally able to venutre out to fight evil foes to teach the ways of Bahamut, even if he face a powerful Red Dragon on his own to do so.

Now at first I thought Cleric but Favored Soul might fit the role better (due to the more innate connection to Bahamut), so which is the better fit?

Also I still need to make it clear: This character will be one I play in a Living Greyhawk adventure so there are a few things that are closed or not yet allowed in the game.

So far I have not seen anything in Dragon Magic allowed in those games, so that is a dead end.
Nephlite
08-26-07, 10:45 PM At an upcoming convention I am planning to start a divine caster character but I have a problem to picking between being a cleric or a favored soul.

The character idea is that this person, a Human named Kyros, is choosen by Bahamut to create a temple in hopes of gathering more members to teach them his ways, and of course oppose his nasty sister's minions. And even though he may become the leader/protector (going to branch into Pious Templer) for this temple but also equally able to venutre out to fight evil foes to teach the ways of Bahamut, even if he face a powerful Red Dragon on his own to do so.

Now at first I thought Cleric but Favored Soul might fit the role better (due to the more innate connection to Bahamut), so which is the better fit?

Cleric is better healer as he can spontanously cast.

Favored soul is pretty decent with Bahamuts favored weapon (what is that anyway?). Gets resistances to energy. Wings at 17 (you'll have spells for flight by than though).

Depends what you need from the class.
Favored Soul does fit flavorwise. Are you trying to specialize in his favored weapon?
kyros_the_spawnslayer
08-26-07, 11:09 PM Kinda of, and this guy wasn't really going to be a healer, more of a divine warrior. I mean he'll heal you when he gets the chance but he's a bit busy bashing evil dragons and their minions at the moment. Now I know some people don't like the FS due to its cheesiness, such as its better at being a sorcerer than a sorcerer and it has all good saves, but I was mainly picking the class for flavor and then getting into Pious Templar after my 7th FS level.

And BTW, Bahamut's favored weapon is the Heavy Pick.
dknight100
08-26-07, 11:43 PM i wonder why bahamut's keen on the heavy pick. If i was bahamut, i have a suspicion my favored weapon would be a claw, bite, wing, or tail slap >.>
chava
08-27-07, 01:06 AM Bahamut's favored weapon is bite - his non-dragon follows utilize a hvy pick bc it deals damage in a similar way.
danielinthewolvesden
08-27-07, 01:21 AM The character idea is that this person, a Human named Kyros, is choosen by Bahamut

If he is chosen by his diety, then FS is a better choice, RP-wise.
Puca
08-27-07, 01:07 PM It seems better flavorwise to go FS.
Powerwise, and I dont know that thats an issue, the cleric stronger, but the cleric is stronger than most anything.

The best favored souls Ive seen have been exactly what you are looking to play: divine warriors. They focus primarily on spells to buff themselves prior to combat.
CreepingCharly
08-27-07, 01:48 PM If you are looking for a divine warrior, the Re-balanced Paladin (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045) courtesy of OneWinged4ngel looks very cool.

--Charly
wolf_man007
08-27-07, 02:18 PM Cleric is better healer as he can spontanously cast.

Favored souls can spontaneously cast all spells they know... INCLUDING cure spells.
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-27-07, 03:54 PM Favored souls can spontaneously cast all spells they know... INCLUDING cure spells.

And each cure spell a favoured soul knows takes a bite out of his comparatively miniscule spells known list.
OneWinged4ngel
08-27-07, 04:28 PM Power-wise... Cleric is generally better. But they're both powerful.

If he is chosen by his diety, then FS is a better choice, RP-wise.

I disagree completely. You can write the flavor as you please, and a Cleric can be said to be chosen just as much as a Favored Soul can. Classes are actually completely metagame concepts comprised of collections of mechanical effects. The effects reflect on the game (but that's it), and there's nothing more inherently "chosen by the gods" in flavor about casting spontaneously vs. preparing spells. Heck, many settings say that all Clerics are chosen by deities. And I could just as easily create some sort of flavor like "Clerics, champions of the gods, request boons from their deities to accomplish their tasks as the chosen ones. On the other hand, Favored Souls steal divine power, ur-priest style, and can thus access to the god's boons at any time, giving him spontaneous casting." But that's totally arbitrary, and has little to do with the class itself limiting RP.

It's pretty narrow-minded to call any class "best for RP." It depends entirely on implementation.
Salla
08-27-07, 05:09 PM Definitely Cleric, power-wise.
Jexil
08-27-07, 06:28 PM I prefer clerics because of the ability to turn undead.
In every campaign I've taken part where the party had a favored soul, at least one point we found ourselfing wishing he/she was a cleric instead, always because favored souls can't turn undead. Although it's only a single creature type, every campaign seems to have plenty of undead.

What's more, there are several great feats that allow you to swap some of your daily turning checks for other things, allowing the class feature to continue being an awesome benefit even when the party is not encountering undead.

But otherwise I tend to agree that favored soul sounds like a better RP fit for the character you describe.
kyros_the_spawnslayer
08-27-07, 06:30 PM it still seems 50/50 by what is being said. Kyros Rodan (yes he is a descendant) maybe a character I play at an upcoming convention or two in a LG game. I also think that I will also have Kyros take a double dip into fighter before completely going into Pious Templar.
wolf_man007
08-27-07, 10:58 PM And each cure spell a favoured soul knows takes a bite out of his comparatively miniscule spells known list.

I'll guess you meant minuscule.

Yes, this is true. Although, that wasn't the point I was making. I was merely discounting the thought that Favored Souls can't cast healing spells spontaneously.

I didn't write beyond that, if anything further was implied, I apologize for the miscommunication.
Fireclave
08-27-07, 11:16 PM Not nearly as strong as the Cleric or Favored Soul, but have you considered the Dragon Shaman class from the PHII. You don't get spells, but you do a progressively stronger breath weapon, dragon auras that grant your party constant benefits, a more versitile Lay on Hands ability, natural armor, energy immunity, and wings at 19th level.
kyros_the_spawnslayer
08-27-07, 11:51 PM Yea but I have to note again this guy is going to be played in a Living Greyhawk campaign in the very near future, and so far the Dragon Shaman class has not been opened to the game.

And cleric would work pretty good but that some of the divine feats are banned (IE: Divine Metamagic), and though not many of the draconic feats are completely released through the Living Greyhawk games, but if I could I would take Dragonfire Channeling (and picking a draconic heritage that is cold based) and blast away foes with divine dragonfire. But in the end I think a few levels of Favored Soul and at least 2 levels of fighter (very original I know) and then brun the rest of the way throught the Templar PrC.
Vaelan
08-28-07, 12:22 AM Favored Soul does fit flavorwise.
I disagree. Favored Souls don't even get Knowledge (Religion)! How do you start a temple and teach the god's ways without Knowledge (Religion)?

And each cure spell a favoured soul knows takes a bite out of his comparatively miniscule spells known list.
And Favored Souls are given additional spells known to cover Cleric staples.
LazyNinja
08-28-07, 12:37 AM I know nothing about LG, so no idea if you can use this, but check out the Favored Soul alternative class features in Dragon Magic. I think it's just what you're looking for.

I disagree. Favored Souls don't even get Knowledge (Religion)! How do you start a temple and teach the god's ways without Knowledge (Religion)?

Also, no heavy armor, no divine feats, and split casting stats. Though these drawbacks can be mitigated with mithral plate, face-bashing instead of turning, and a focus on buff spells. Definitely watch those K(r) ranks when looking to qualify for PrC's, though without Turn Undead, some are just right out anyway.
kyros_the_spawnslayer
08-28-07, 01:29 AM Maybe I should just take levels in both classes, problem fixed. And if I don't get a chance to play this guy in a Living Greyhawk game maybe in soem other one. In that case I thing it would be easy to mold the Ultimate Magus into a divine version, maybe call it True Saint?
Lady_Dragon
08-28-07, 02:30 AM I know you said you were going branch into the Pious Templar PrC, but considering the personality of the character, I'd recommend you check out the Swift Wing PrC in Dragon Magic. They get energy resistance/immunity, a positive energy breath weapon, and wings. Very cool, IMO, and seems to exactly fit what you've described. Best to go into this as a cleric.
danielinthewolvesden
08-28-07, 01:35 PM I disagree completely. You can write the flavor as you please, and a Cleric can be said to be chosen just as much as a Favored Soul can.

It's pretty narrow-minded to call any class "best for RP." It depends entirely on implementation.

Well, I was basing my answer on the RAW.Those alternative idea you give are not part of the RAW, athlo you can houserule them in if you choose. But going by the RAW, in the fluff section of FS, for the reason the OP gave- the FS would be the better choice RP-wise.

Nor am I saying the FS is, in general better than the Cleric for roleplaying. It is just that the OP gave a list of parameters and- GIVEN THAT LIST- the FS matches better.
danielinthewolvesden
08-28-07, 01:38 PM I disagree. Favored Souls don't even get Knowledge (Religion)! How do you start a temple and teach the god's ways without Knowledge (Religion)?
.

They do not need "Book larnin" they have FAITH! And Charisma. Not to mention they certainly can take a rank or two of KS religion.
Empiro
08-28-07, 02:51 PM Both are great classes. Clerics are a bit more powerful, but Favored Souls are no slouch either. Never underestimate the usefulness of being able to spontaneously cast spells. Spells like Death Ward, which you normally don't need, but when you do need, you need badly and need for everyone, are very good to have spontaneously at your fingertips. If your party doesn't have a sorcerer, then having someone who can spontaneously cast dispel magic is incredibly useful.

In the end of the day, both choices are powerful, so you should pick the one that fits your character concept the best, and you think would be the most fun.
Puca
08-28-07, 03:06 PM Spells like Death Ward, which you normally don't need, but when you do need, you need badly and need for everyone, are very good to have spontaneously at your fingertips.No, theyre good to have in your scroll case. When you only know like two spells per level and cast six spells per level, you dont learn spells you dont anticipate casting multiple times a day.

In the end of the day, both choices are powerful, so you should pick the one that fits your character concept the best, and you think would be the most fun.
100% agree. They are both full divine casters. The weakest full casters are still plenty powerful enough, so concept is going to have to decide the matter.
Empiro
08-28-07, 04:56 PM No, theyre good to have in your scroll case. When you only know like two spells per level and cast six spells per level, you dont learn spells you dont anticipate casting multiple times a day.

Favored Souls actually get a fairly impressive number of spells known -- at least 3 (and far more than poor sorcerers). For 4th level spells like Death Ward and Freedom of Movement, they get expensive FAST at 700gp a pop, especially if several people need the spell. If you mix your spell selection between spells that are useful in every battle (Divine Power), and spells that you need less frequently (but when you need it, you need multiple copies), you'll find that it works quite well.
d24478667
08-28-07, 05:10 PM If you're allowed Dragon Magic, I'd go with FS, because of the replacement option; namely, you grow claws, I believe.
OneWinged4ngel
08-28-07, 06:27 PM Well, I was basing my answer on the RAW.

RAW has nothing to do with flavor. RAW is actually "Rules As Written." Flavor has nothing to do with rules. Claiming that flavor is RAW and the typical rules people adhere to is as ridiculous as saying that Pelor is the Sun God in everyone's setting and that playing a homebrew setting or published one other than Greyhawk is "houseruling," or that EVERY CHARACTER OF THE SAME CLASS MUST HAVE THE SAME PERSONALITY, since the flavor lists "suggested personality traits common to stereotypical members of the class," and all dwarves have to be drunkards, and so forth.

If those are actually RULES in your game, then it's a wonder you have anyone willing to play with you. They certainly aren't rules by RAW... they're just fluff, completely seperated from the rules.
danielinthewolvesden
08-28-07, 08:01 PM RAW has nothing to do with flavor. RAW is actually "Rules As Written." Flavor has nothing to do with rules.
If those are actually RULES in your game, then it's a wonder you have anyone willing to play with you. They certainly aren't rules by RAW... they're just fluff, completely seperated from the rules.

Text is text, and they print it for a reason. It's part of the printed source material, and thus you should consider it. Nor do they have a solid line in the text "this is fluff, ignore it; this is rules, you have to use it". You do not HAVE to play with it, certainly, but the same goes for RAW. And, I have no problem whatsoever getting folks to play with me, not for the last 30+ years.

And if someone asked who was the Solar diety in the Greyhawk/Oerth setting, the RAW answer would be Pelor, like it or not.
kyros_the_spawnslayer
08-28-07, 09:56 PM Okay people I don't want temper to flare up more than they should. I have decided to go with Favored Soul because by their flavor it fits the role for Kyros Rodan.

I am thinking about FS4/Ftr2/PTemp10. So with a 28 point buy what would be a good set up of starting stats?

Also is there a feat someone can take that makes a CC skill into a class skill? Because I do think it is a good idea to try to have the the max, or close to, ranks in the Knowledge Religion skill.
Vaelan
08-29-07, 03:13 AM Also is there a feat someone can take that makes a CC skill into a class skill? Because I do think it is a good idea to try to have the the max, or close to, ranks in the Knowledge Religion skill.
Some of the many feats named Education allow it, as does a very generic feat from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Knowledge.
Puca
08-29-07, 04:32 PM Favored Souls actually get a fairly impressive number of spells known -- at least 3 (and far more than poor sorcerers). For 4th level spells like Death Ward and Freedom of Movement, they get expensive FAST at 700gp a pop, especially if several people need the spell. If you mix your spell selection between spells that are useful in every battle (Divine Power), and spells that you need less frequently (but when you need it, you need multiple copies), you'll find that it works quite well.If several people are going to need it on a regular basis, then of course. It is a good candidate for a spells-known. But if several people are going to need it “someday Im sure” then you might want a scroll or other limited use item.

No matter how many more spells they know over the sorcerer, it isnt “all” like the cleric. You have to be selective about which spells you add to your spells known, and you also want to have a good supply of scrolls and wands for those spells you need, but dont know. Deathward and Freedom of Movement are no less expensive than other spells fourth-level+ spells I might use items for.

The best strategy is, in my opinion, is to devote your spells known to spells you can foresee using multiple times per day.

Divine Power is a 4th-level spell that a melee f.s. is going to use every combat encounter. Thats a good spell-known for this type of character. Cure Critical Wounds will be good if I anticipate taking lots of damage. Spells like this i know my melee f.s. is going to use more than once per day, so they are better candidates for my limited spells-known slots than even vital spells I may really, really need, but far less often.

Other spells that you wont use that often should be acquired as items. Now, if you were in a campaign where you could realistically want to have the effects of Deathward even as little as once per day, I could totally see using a Spells-known slot for it, trading a bit of versatility to save the cost a wand.
kyros_the_spawnslayer
08-31-07, 06:21 PM Alright I think I have decided for Kyros Rodan's 16 levels to be the following:
Favored Soul of Bahamut 4 / Paladin 2 / Pious Templar

Now what feats would you suggest, because I know if I sub Favored Soul for Cleric I could take some Divine Feats, but I will try to stay away from those. And aparently his character type is a "vanguard" (have no clue what that means) from what I read in PHBII.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kyros_the_spawnslayer 08-26-07, 09:39 PM	At an upcoming convention I am planning to start a divine caster character but I have a problem to picking between being a cleric or a favored soul. The character idea is that this person, a Human named Kyros Rodan (a descenant of Marlow befor his transformation), is choosen by Bahamut to create a temple in hopes of gathering more members to teach them his ways, and of course oppose his nasty sister's minions. And even though he may become the leader/protector (going to branch into Pious Templer) for this temple but also equally able to venutre out to fight evil foes to teach the ways of Bahamut, even if he face a powerful Red Dragon on his own to do so. Now at first I thought Cleric but Favored Soul might fit the role better (due to the more innate connection to Bahamut), so which is the better fit? Also I still need to make it clear: This character will be one I play in a Living Greyhawk adventure so there are a few things that are closed or not yet allowed in the game. So far I have not seen anything in Dragon Magic allowed in those games, so that is a dead end.
Nephlite 08-26-07, 10:45 PM	At an upcoming convention I am planning to start a divine caster character but I have a problem to picking between being a cleric or a favored soul. The character idea is that this person, a Human named Kyros, is choosen by Bahamut to create a temple in hopes of gathering more members to teach them his ways, and of course oppose his nasty sister's minions. And even though he may become the leader/protector (going to branch into Pious Templer) for this temple but also equally able to venutre out to fight evil foes to teach the ways of Bahamut, even if he face a powerful Red Dragon on his own to do so. Now at first I thought Cleric but Favored Soul might fit the role better (due to the more innate connection to Bahamut), so which is the better fit? Cleric is better healer as he can spontanously cast. Favored soul is pretty decent with Bahamuts favored weapon (what is that anyway?). Gets resistances to energy. Wings at 17 (you'll have spells for flight by than though). Depends what you need from the class. Favored Soul does fit flavorwise. Are you trying to specialize in his favored weapon?
kyros_the_spawnslayer 08-26-07, 11:09 PM	Kinda of, and this guy wasn't really going to be a healer, more of a divine warrior. I mean he'll heal you when he gets the chance but he's a bit busy bashing evil dragons and their minions at the moment. Now I know some people don't like the FS due to its cheesiness, such as its better at being a sorcerer than a sorcerer and it has all good saves, but I was mainly picking the class for flavor and then getting into Pious Templar after my 7th FS level. And BTW, Bahamut's favored weapon is the Heavy Pick.
dknight100 08-26-07, 11:43 PM	i wonder why bahamut's keen on the heavy pick. If i was bahamut, i have a suspicion my favored weapon would be a claw, bite, wing, or tail slap >.>
chava 08-27-07, 01:06 AM	Bahamut's favored weapon is bite - his non-dragon follows utilize a hvy pick bc it deals damage in a similar way.
danielinthewolvesden 08-27-07, 01:21 AM	The character idea is that this person, a Human named Kyros, is choosen by Bahamut If he is chosen by his diety, then FS is a better choice, RP-wise.
Puca 08-27-07, 01:07 PM	It seems better flavorwise to go FS. Powerwise, and I dont know that thats an issue, the cleric stronger, but the cleric is stronger than most anything. The best favored souls Ive seen have been exactly what you are looking to play: divine warriors. They focus primarily on spells to buff themselves prior to combat.
CreepingCharly 08-27-07, 01:48 PM	If you are looking for a divine warrior, the Re-balanced Paladin (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045) courtesy of OneWinged4ngel looks very cool. --Charly
wolf_man007 08-27-07, 02:18 PM	Cleric is better healer as he can spontanously cast. Favored souls can spontaneously cast all spells they know... INCLUDING cure spells.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-27-07, 03:54 PM	Favored souls can spontaneously cast all spells they know... INCLUDING cure spells. And each cure spell a favoured soul knows takes a bite out of his comparatively miniscule spells known list.
OneWinged4ngel 08-27-07, 04:28 PM	Power-wise... Cleric is generally better. But they're both powerful. If he is chosen by his diety, then FS is a better choice, RP-wise. I disagree completely. You can write the flavor as you please, and a Cleric can be said to be chosen just as much as a Favored Soul can. Classes are actually completely metagame concepts comprised of collections of mechanical effects. The effects reflect on the game (but that's it), and there's nothing more inherently "chosen by the gods" in flavor about casting spontaneously vs. preparing spells. Heck, many settings say that all Clerics are chosen by deities. And I could just as easily create some sort of flavor like "Clerics, champions of the gods, request boons from their deities to accomplish their tasks as the chosen ones. On the other hand, Favored Souls steal divine power, ur-priest style, and can thus access to the god's boons at any time, giving him spontaneous casting." But that's totally arbitrary, and has little to do with the class itself limiting RP. It's pretty narrow-minded to call any class "best for RP." It depends entirely on implementation.
Salla 08-27-07, 05:09 PM	Definitely Cleric, power-wise.
Jexil 08-27-07, 06:28 PM	I prefer clerics because of the ability to turn undead. In every campaign I've taken part where the party had a favored soul, at least one point we found ourselfing wishing he/she was a cleric instead, always because favored souls can't turn undead. Although it's only a single creature type, every campaign seems to have plenty of undead. What's more, there are several great feats that allow you to swap some of your daily turning checks for other things, allowing the class feature to continue being an awesome benefit even when the party is not encountering undead. But otherwise I tend to agree that favored soul sounds like a better RP fit for the character you describe.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 08-27-07, 06:30 PM	it still seems 50/50 by what is being said. Kyros Rodan (yes he is a descendant) maybe a character I play at an upcoming convention or two in a LG game. I also think that I will also have Kyros take a double dip into fighter before completely going into Pious Templar.
wolf_man007 08-27-07, 10:58 PM	And each cure spell a favoured soul knows takes a bite out of his comparatively miniscule spells known list. I'll guess you meant minuscule. Yes, this is true. Although, that wasn't the point I was making. I was merely discounting the thought that Favored Souls can't cast healing spells spontaneously. I didn't write beyond that, if anything further was implied, I apologize for the miscommunication.
Fireclave 08-27-07, 11:16 PM	Not nearly as strong as the Cleric or Favored Soul, but have you considered the Dragon Shaman class from the PHII. You don't get spells, but you do a progressively stronger breath weapon, dragon auras that grant your party constant benefits, a more versitile Lay on Hands ability, natural armor, energy immunity, and wings at 19th level.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 08-27-07, 11:51 PM	Yea but I have to note again this guy is going to be played in a Living Greyhawk campaign in the very near future, and so far the Dragon Shaman class has not been opened to the game. And cleric would work pretty good but that some of the divine feats are banned (IE: Divine Metamagic), and though not many of the draconic feats are completely released through the Living Greyhawk games, but if I could I would take Dragonfire Channeling (and picking a draconic heritage that is cold based) and blast away foes with divine dragonfire. But in the end I think a few levels of Favored Soul and at least 2 levels of fighter (very original I know) and then brun the rest of the way throught the Templar PrC.
Vaelan 08-28-07, 12:22 AM	Favored Soul does fit flavorwise. I disagree. Favored Souls don't even get Knowledge (Religion)! How do you start a temple and teach the god's ways without Knowledge (Religion)? And each cure spell a favoured soul knows takes a bite out of his comparatively miniscule spells known list. And Favored Souls are given additional spells known to cover Cleric staples.
LazyNinja 08-28-07, 12:37 AM	I know nothing about LG, so no idea if you can use this, but check out the Favored Soul alternative class features in Dragon Magic. I think it's just what you're looking for. I disagree. Favored Souls don't even get Knowledge (Religion)! How do you start a temple and teach the god's ways without Knowledge (Religion)? Also, no heavy armor, no divine feats, and split casting stats. Though these drawbacks can be mitigated with mithral plate, face-bashing instead of turning, and a focus on buff spells. Definitely watch those K(r) ranks when looking to qualify for PrC's, though without Turn Undead, some are just right out anyway.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 08-28-07, 01:29 AM	Maybe I should just take levels in both classes, problem fixed. And if I don't get a chance to play this guy in a Living Greyhawk game maybe in soem other one. In that case I thing it would be easy to mold the Ultimate Magus into a divine version, maybe call it True Saint?
Lady_Dragon 08-28-07, 02:30 AM	I know you said you were going branch into the Pious Templar PrC, but considering the personality of the character, I'd recommend you check out the Swift Wing PrC in Dragon Magic. They get energy resistance/immunity, a positive energy breath weapon, and wings. Very cool, IMO, and seems to exactly fit what you've described. Best to go into this as a cleric.
danielinthewolvesden 08-28-07, 01:35 PM	I disagree completely. You can write the flavor as you please, and a Cleric can be said to be chosen just as much as a Favored Soul can. It's pretty narrow-minded to call any class "best for RP." It depends entirely on implementation. Well, I was basing my answer on the RAW.Those alternative idea you give are not part of the RAW, athlo you can houserule them in if you choose. But going by the RAW, in the fluff section of FS, for the reason the OP gave- the FS would be the better choice RP-wise. Nor am I saying the FS is, in general better than the Cleric for roleplaying. It is just that the OP gave a list of parameters and- GIVEN THAT LIST- the FS matches better.
danielinthewolvesden 08-28-07, 01:38 PM	I disagree. Favored Souls don't even get Knowledge (Religion)! How do you start a temple and teach the god's ways without Knowledge (Religion)? . They do not need "Book larnin" they have FAITH! And Charisma. Not to mention they certainly can take a rank or two of KS religion.
Empiro 08-28-07, 02:51 PM	Both are great classes. Clerics are a bit more powerful, but Favored Souls are no slouch either. Never underestimate the usefulness of being able to spontaneously cast spells. Spells like Death Ward, which you normally don't need, but when you do need, you need badly and need for everyone, are very good to have spontaneously at your fingertips. If your party doesn't have a sorcerer, then having someone who can spontaneously cast dispel magic is incredibly useful. In the end of the day, both choices are powerful, so you should pick the one that fits your character concept the best, and you think would be the most fun.
Puca 08-28-07, 03:06 PM	Spells like Death Ward, which you normally don't need, but when you do need, you need badly and need for everyone, are very good to have spontaneously at your fingertips.No, theyre good to have in your scroll case. When you only know like two spells per level and cast six spells per level, you dont learn spells you dont anticipate casting multiple times a day. In the end of the day, both choices are powerful, so you should pick the one that fits your character concept the best, and you think would be the most fun. 100% agree. They are both full divine casters. The weakest full casters are still plenty powerful enough, so concept is going to have to decide the matter.
Empiro 08-28-07, 04:56 PM	No, theyre good to have in your scroll case. When you only know like two spells per level and cast six spells per level, you dont learn spells you dont anticipate casting multiple times a day. Favored Souls actually get a fairly impressive number of spells known -- at least 3 (and far more than poor sorcerers). For 4th level spells like Death Ward and Freedom of Movement, they get expensive FAST at 700gp a pop, especially if several people need the spell. If you mix your spell selection between spells that are useful in every battle (Divine Power), and spells that you need less frequently (but when you need it, you need multiple copies), you'll find that it works quite well.
d24478667 08-28-07, 05:10 PM	If you're allowed Dragon Magic, I'd go with FS, because of the replacement option; namely, you grow claws, I believe.
OneWinged4ngel 08-28-07, 06:27 PM	Well, I was basing my answer on the RAW. RAW has nothing to do with flavor. RAW is actually "Rules As Written." Flavor has nothing to do with rules. Claiming that flavor is RAW and the typical rules people adhere to is as ridiculous as saying that Pelor is the Sun God in everyone's setting and that playing a homebrew setting or published one other than Greyhawk is "houseruling," or that EVERY CHARACTER OF THE SAME CLASS MUST HAVE THE SAME PERSONALITY, since the flavor lists "suggested personality traits common to stereotypical members of the class," and all dwarves have to be drunkards, and so forth. If those are actually RULES in your game, then it's a wonder you have anyone willing to play with you. They certainly aren't rules by RAW... they're just fluff, completely seperated from the rules.
danielinthewolvesden 08-28-07, 08:01 PM	RAW has nothing to do with flavor. RAW is actually "Rules As Written." Flavor has nothing to do with rules. If those are actually RULES in your game, then it's a wonder you have anyone willing to play with you. They certainly aren't rules by RAW... they're just fluff, completely seperated from the rules. Text is text, and they print it for a reason. It's part of the printed source material, and thus you should consider it. Nor do they have a solid line in the text "this is fluff, ignore it; this is rules, you have to use it". You do not HAVE to play with it, certainly, but the same goes for RAW. And, I have no problem whatsoever getting folks to play with me, not for the last 30+ years. And if someone asked who was the Solar diety in the Greyhawk/Oerth setting, the RAW answer would be Pelor, like it or not.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 08-28-07, 09:56 PM	Okay people I don't want temper to flare up more than they should. I have decided to go with Favored Soul because by their flavor it fits the role for Kyros Rodan. I am thinking about FS4/Ftr2/PTemp10. So with a 28 point buy what would be a good set up of starting stats? Also is there a feat someone can take that makes a CC skill into a class skill? Because I do think it is a good idea to try to have the the max, or close to, ranks in the Knowledge Religion skill.
Vaelan 08-29-07, 03:13 AM	Also is there a feat someone can take that makes a CC skill into a class skill? Because I do think it is a good idea to try to have the the max, or close to, ranks in the Knowledge Religion skill. Some of the many feats named Education allow it, as does a very generic feat from Unearthed Arcana: Skill Knowledge.
Puca 08-29-07, 04:32 PM	Favored Souls actually get a fairly impressive number of spells known -- at least 3 (and far more than poor sorcerers). For 4th level spells like Death Ward and Freedom of Movement, they get expensive FAST at 700gp a pop, especially if several people need the spell. If you mix your spell selection between spells that are useful in every battle (Divine Power), and spells that you need less frequently (but when you need it, you need multiple copies), you'll find that it works quite well.If several people are going to need it on a regular basis, then of course. It is a good candidate for a spells-known. But if several people are going to need it “someday Im sure” then you might want a scroll or other limited use item. No matter how many more spells they know over the sorcerer, it isnt “all” like the cleric. You have to be selective about which spells you add to your spells known, and you also want to have a good supply of scrolls and wands for those spells you need, but dont know. Deathward and Freedom of Movement are no less expensive than other spells fourth-level+ spells I might use items for. The best strategy is, in my opinion, is to devote your spells known to spells you can foresee using multiple times per day. Divine Power is a 4th-level spell that a melee f.s. is going to use every combat encounter. Thats a good spell-known for this type of character. Cure Critical Wounds will be good if I anticipate taking lots of damage. Spells like this i know my melee f.s. is going to use more than once per day, so they are better candidates for my limited spells-known slots than even vital spells I may really, really need, but far less often. Other spells that you wont use that often should be acquired as items. Now, if you were in a campaign where you could realistically want to have the effects of Deathward even as little as once per day, I could totally see using a Spells-known slot for it, trading a bit of versatility to save the cost a wand.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 08-31-07, 06:21 PM	Alright I think I have decided for Kyros Rodan's 16 levels to be the following: Favored Soul of Bahamut 4 / Paladin 2 / Pious Templar Now what feats would you suggest, because I know if I sub Favored Soul for Cleric I could take some Divine Feats, but I will try to stay away from those. And aparently his character type is a "vanguard" (have no clue what that means) from what I read in PHBII.