Help me build out this character... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help me build out this character... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DellDrEvil
01-12-07, 11:26 AM Okay,

Here's the skinny..

I played first and second editions, and was recently recruited into a 3.5 ed. game...

I've been out of the loop for the better part of a decade...

Working with the GM, I kind of took over a spot played by an npc fighter, and in an attempt to make it my own, I think I may have screwed the future development of the character.

I took over the character at its 5th level, and shuffled some things around with GM permissions, and have gained a level since then...

Here's the breakdown..

6th Level Fighter 3/Rogue 3.

Str.18
Dex.16
Con.14
Int.16
Wis.12
Cha.12

I wish I had the keen mind required to be the ultimate master of D&D information but for the most part I'm grasping at straws in a game group comprised of some of the fiercest power gamers in town so HELP!

Admittedly, as you'll be able to tell, my gaming style is not min-maxing... And I may have screwed my self because of that.

+
Everybody loves the stealthy, crazy conan the barbarian style fighter.

So I made the fighter/thief combo.
I wanted to do ridiculous amounts of damage up close and personal, and I wanted some direction for future events so I've chosen feats and skills that will eventually get me to Kensai (Complete Warrior)

For Kensai, and playability issues my GM said sure, but threw out the whole oath aspect of the Kensai. (I said "Bonus!" but was prepared to play through it)

I wanted a smarter hero, thus the 16 in intelligence.
I wanted at least a little bonus when it came to the other saves, thus the 12's in Cha, and wisdom. I wanted to be stealthy and mobile (even though wielding a bloody greatsword) So I made my dex a 16. And I wanted to be somewhat of a melee monster so I put the 18 into strength. And I put my 14 into the Con for the bonus there.

Now I know that after playing the fighter/thief under 3.5 I've severly hampered my base attack bonus, and my hitpoints with this combination. And it puts me at a point where I can take the first level of Kensai at 8th (instead of 6th or 7th had I chosen a single class)

Because in the long haul I've hurt my hitpoints I think the classic fighter path of powerattack-cleave-whirlwind attack is out, because my character won't be able to take the damage dealt by being surrounded by evil beasties.

I'd like to do some sort of quick attack melee monster, but I don't know the feats on how to do this.

My GM has some house rules on weapon/magic item creation, and not really understanding them, and needing to rush in order to play, I took the Unearthed Arcana Feat: Item Familiar on my characters armor (Mithril Breastplate) and planning ahead for the kensai I made my main weapon a huge Weighted (from bastion press's Arms and Armor...[changes damage from 2d6 to 2d8, and increases threat to 18-20 instead of 19-20]) Adamantine Greatsword. (figured its going to be pretty much indestructable)

Here is the feats I've chosen.
Combat Expertise
Dextrous Dodge (out of Ultimate Feats)
Jack of All trades (Complete Adventurer)
Item Familiar (Unearthed Arcana)
Power Attack

I'm about to hit 7th...

I was thinking about taking another level of fighter, and grabbing the cleave feat.

Have I made a colossal mistake?

Please give me your ideas...
We're playing tomorrow, and I think I'm up a certain creek with out a paddle!

Thanks..

Dave in Austin, TX
Derren S.
01-12-07, 11:32 AM A question, don't you need the familiar class ability to get item familiar?

Also what do you get out by making your armor your item familiar? By that you will be stuck with that armor forever and can't get a better one. Are you sure that is worth it? And why Jack of all traits? Its not that you will be very good at those skills, so spending a feat just to make a chack you will fail nearly all the time is imo a waste.
DellDrEvil
01-12-07, 11:50 AM Apparently you don't.

The item familiar is a completely different animal...(no pun intended)

Description of the feat from p.170 of Unearthed Arcana:
(Please don't sue me Wotc)

"Choose a permanent magic item that you possess. You establish a link to that magic item and the item improves in capability as you gain levels.

PreReq: A character must be 3rd level to take this feat.

Benefit: By establishing a link to a particular item, you enable that item to gain power as you gain levels. The exact nature of the time and the powers are described in the following text...

(I ain't typing that part out... but expands on the idea that by sacrificing a feat at a lower level, grants you an item that can achieve greater intelligent item abilities as your character progresses.. I chose it because I don't know beans about item creation, or what would be best for the character so I kind of took this feat as a shortcut to supposed greatness. The Item Familiar in question is the hereditary armor of the character. Passed from father to son on the day of their first battle... Military family)

Special: If you ever lose the chosen item (have it removed from your possession for a continous period of more than one day per level) or if the item is destroyed, you automatically lose 200xp per level as well as all the benefits derived from possessing the linked item (plus any resources you put into the item) If you recover the item, you regain these XP. You may replace a lost or destroyed item familiar after you have advanced one level as if you were gaining an item familiar for the first time.

***
I saw the potential for abuse with the item familiar getting stacked greater intelligent item abilities, so rather than doing that, the GM and I came up with a compromise... The abilities will be suitably powerful, but my character won't find out about them except through both role-play and personal discovery. So until the item familiars first powers activate at 7th, its just a regular (albeit mithril breastplate)
DellDrEvil
01-12-07, 11:59 AM I don't mind being "stuck" with the armor forever since it makes sense for the character. Some groups have a hereditary sword, this "back bone" of the empire style military family has this piece of armor, that has been worn into battle, and safely brought the youth home for decades. I liked the story crafted for the item, and the concept for the item familiar. And until the item begins to manifest I'm allowed to make changes (take the breastplate and use it as the core of a suit of half or full plate) without hampering the future effects of the armor.

Jack of all trades again went in line with the character background and history. I may never use the feat (although I have on more than a dozen occasions.) I found that the effective half rank in all skills allowed for attempts (at incredible odds) that wouldn't have succeeded had they been left to the other more skilled players... ie. it allowed for a backup attempt to detect/search or what have you.

The Jack of All trades feat also seemed to make sense as I can see a battle hardened family (though non-noble) viewing education as a means to survival. So the character in his starting (pre-heroic) story picks up a little bit of everything. never knowing when and if underwater basket weaving will come in handy.

But I figured it worked well with the self-reliant type, and of course the previously mentioned benefits to the party-group.
draco1119
01-12-07, 12:18 PM Combat Expertise
Dextrous Dodge (out of Ultimate Feats)
Jack of All trades (Complete Adventurer)
Item Familiar (Unearthed Arcana)
Power Attack

Combat Expertise is a decent one to go with Power Attack, I'm not familiar with Dextrous Dodge, and Jack of All Trades seems pretty cool.

My reccomendation, however, would be to capitalize on those Rogue levels and go with the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack Feat tree. See if your DM will allow you to switch your Rogue levels to Scout, and for God's sake keep even levels in Fighter! Abuse the bonus feats for all they're worth! After you get Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack, you can go for anything under Combat Expertise (Trip/Disarm/whatever) or go with Leap Attack (CA), which adds damage on a charge.
DellDrEvil
01-12-07, 12:36 PM Dextrous Dodge instead of Dodge is a GM house rule...

As I understand it, it works the same way as dodge, except you cannot lose that bonus point to AC even if caught flatfooted(?) or in a situation where you would lose your dex bonus.

As for scout... Again another house rule, Scout has been "stricken from the record" because "you only need three feats to make it ridiculous... Dodge, mobility and spring attack"

A friend suggested the same thing not too long ago... and thus the above ruling...

I'd give a kidney for skirmish AC bonus and the skirmish stacking sneak attack thing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DellDrEvil 01-12-07, 11:26 AM	Okay, Here's the skinny.. I played first and second editions, and was recently recruited into a 3.5 ed. game... I've been out of the loop for the better part of a decade... Working with the GM, I kind of took over a spot played by an npc fighter, and in an attempt to make it my own, I think I may have screwed the future development of the character. I took over the character at its 5th level, and shuffled some things around with GM permissions, and have gained a level since then... Here's the breakdown.. 6th Level Fighter 3/Rogue 3. Str.18 Dex.16 Con.14 Int.16 Wis.12 Cha.12 I wish I had the keen mind required to be the ultimate master of D&D information but for the most part I'm grasping at straws in a game group comprised of some of the fiercest power gamers in town so HELP! Admittedly, as you'll be able to tell, my gaming style is not min-maxing... And I may have screwed my self because of that. + Everybody loves the stealthy, crazy conan the barbarian style fighter. So I made the fighter/thief combo. I wanted to do ridiculous amounts of damage up close and personal, and I wanted some direction for future events so I've chosen feats and skills that will eventually get me to Kensai (Complete Warrior) For Kensai, and playability issues my GM said sure, but threw out the whole oath aspect of the Kensai. (I said "Bonus!" but was prepared to play through it) I wanted a smarter hero, thus the 16 in intelligence. I wanted at least a little bonus when it came to the other saves, thus the 12's in Cha, and wisdom. I wanted to be stealthy and mobile (even though wielding a bloody greatsword) So I made my dex a 16. And I wanted to be somewhat of a melee monster so I put the 18 into strength. And I put my 14 into the Con for the bonus there. Now I know that after playing the fighter/thief under 3.5 I've severly hampered my base attack bonus, and my hitpoints with this combination. And it puts me at a point where I can take the first level of Kensai at 8th (instead of 6th or 7th had I chosen a single class) Because in the long haul I've hurt my hitpoints I think the classic fighter path of powerattack-cleave-whirlwind attack is out, because my character won't be able to take the damage dealt by being surrounded by evil beasties. I'd like to do some sort of quick attack melee monster, but I don't know the feats on how to do this. My GM has some house rules on weapon/magic item creation, and not really understanding them, and needing to rush in order to play, I took the Unearthed Arcana Feat: Item Familiar on my characters armor (Mithril Breastplate) and planning ahead for the kensai I made my main weapon a huge Weighted (from bastion press's Arms and Armor...[changes damage from 2d6 to 2d8, and increases threat to 18-20 instead of 19-20]) Adamantine Greatsword. (figured its going to be pretty much indestructable) Here is the feats I've chosen. Combat Expertise Dextrous Dodge (out of Ultimate Feats) Jack of All trades (Complete Adventurer) Item Familiar (Unearthed Arcana) Power Attack I'm about to hit 7th... I was thinking about taking another level of fighter, and grabbing the cleave feat. Have I made a colossal mistake? Please give me your ideas... We're playing tomorrow, and I think I'm up a certain creek with out a paddle! Thanks.. Dave in Austin, TX
Derren S. 01-12-07, 11:32 AM	A question, don't you need the familiar class ability to get item familiar? Also what do you get out by making your armor your item familiar? By that you will be stuck with that armor forever and can't get a better one. Are you sure that is worth it? And why Jack of all traits? Its not that you will be very good at those skills, so spending a feat just to make a chack you will fail nearly all the time is imo a waste.
DellDrEvil 01-12-07, 11:50 AM	Apparently you don't. The item familiar is a completely different animal...(no pun intended) Description of the feat from p.170 of Unearthed Arcana: (Please don't sue me Wotc) "Choose a permanent magic item that you possess. You establish a link to that magic item and the item improves in capability as you gain levels. PreReq: A character must be 3rd level to take this feat. Benefit: By establishing a link to a particular item, you enable that item to gain power as you gain levels. The exact nature of the time and the powers are described in the following text... (I ain't typing that part out... but expands on the idea that by sacrificing a feat at a lower level, grants you an item that can achieve greater intelligent item abilities as your character progresses.. I chose it because I don't know beans about item creation, or what would be best for the character so I kind of took this feat as a shortcut to supposed greatness. The Item Familiar in question is the hereditary armor of the character. Passed from father to son on the day of their first battle... Military family) Special: If you ever lose the chosen item (have it removed from your possession for a continous period of more than one day per level) or if the item is destroyed, you automatically lose 200xp per level as well as all the benefits derived from possessing the linked item (plus any resources you put into the item) If you recover the item, you regain these XP. You may replace a lost or destroyed item familiar after you have advanced one level as if you were gaining an item familiar for the first time. *** I saw the potential for abuse with the item familiar getting stacked greater intelligent item abilities, so rather than doing that, the GM and I came up with a compromise... The abilities will be suitably powerful, but my character won't find out about them except through both role-play and personal discovery. So until the item familiars first powers activate at 7th, its just a regular (albeit mithril breastplate)
DellDrEvil 01-12-07, 11:59 AM	I don't mind being "stuck" with the armor forever since it makes sense for the character. Some groups have a hereditary sword, this "back bone" of the empire style military family has this piece of armor, that has been worn into battle, and safely brought the youth home for decades. I liked the story crafted for the item, and the concept for the item familiar. And until the item begins to manifest I'm allowed to make changes (take the breastplate and use it as the core of a suit of half or full plate) without hampering the future effects of the armor. Jack of all trades again went in line with the character background and history. I may never use the feat (although I have on more than a dozen occasions.) I found that the effective half rank in all skills allowed for attempts (at incredible odds) that wouldn't have succeeded had they been left to the other more skilled players... ie. it allowed for a backup attempt to detect/search or what have you. The Jack of All trades feat also seemed to make sense as I can see a battle hardened family (though non-noble) viewing education as a means to survival. So the character in his starting (pre-heroic) story picks up a little bit of everything. never knowing when and if underwater basket weaving will come in handy. But I figured it worked well with the self-reliant type, and of course the previously mentioned benefits to the party-group.
draco1119 01-12-07, 12:18 PM	Combat Expertise Dextrous Dodge (out of Ultimate Feats) Jack of All trades (Complete Adventurer) Item Familiar (Unearthed Arcana) Power Attack Combat Expertise is a decent one to go with Power Attack, I'm not familiar with Dextrous Dodge, and Jack of All Trades seems pretty cool. My reccomendation, however, would be to capitalize on those Rogue levels and go with the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack Feat tree. See if your DM will allow you to switch your Rogue levels to Scout, and for God's sake keep even levels in Fighter! Abuse the bonus feats for all they're worth! After you get Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack, you can go for anything under Combat Expertise (Trip/Disarm/whatever) or go with Leap Attack (CA), which adds damage on a charge.
DellDrEvil 01-12-07, 12:36 PM	Dextrous Dodge instead of Dodge is a GM house rule... As I understand it, it works the same way as dodge, except you cannot lose that bonus point to AC even if caught flatfooted(?) or in a situation where you would lose your dex bonus. As for scout... Again another house rule, Scout has been "stricken from the record" because "you only need three feats to make it ridiculous... Dodge, mobility and spring attack" A friend suggested the same thing not too long ago... and thus the above ruling... I'd give a kidney for skirmish AC bonus and the skirmish stacking sneak attack thing.