Help me convince the group... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help me convince the group... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mr.Waesel
05-26-04, 05:02 AM In a new game I just entered, the DM has a houserule that both HP and XP are kept secret, "to make it more exciting". (yuo do get some notion of how fare gone you are, but that starts at 50% of your max health or less.

I talked to the DM about how stupid that rule was, but he brushed aside my comments by saying that "I just needed to adjust" (which made me even more annoyed)

He has, however, allowed me to convince the other players (longtime users of this rule) about my point of view. If I can convine all of them, the houserule will be removed.

Any suggestions? :)
zerpentor
05-26-04, 06:36 AM ok here's what you do

1: Convince the others

2: Adjust to the rule

3: Leave game
von Szass
05-26-04, 06:39 AM "Secret HP"?

How to convince the group? How the hell could you not see/feel your injuries & diseases?

IC, you shouldn't talk about HP. But you should always ask how the enemy looks like: unhurt, scratched, wounded, heavily wounded, etc. The same way you can talk to the DM, if he inquires about your status. But OOC the players should be able to know each others current HP, to find out who's the one which should be treated first if there are only few spells left.
Sisyfos
05-26-04, 06:49 AM Originally posted by von Szass
unhurt, scratched, wounded, heavily wounded, etc. The same way you can talk to the DM, if he inquires about your status. But OOC the players should be able to know each others current HP, to find out who's the one which should be treated first if there are only few spells left.

I used to be a combat medic in military (training only, no action), and I have to disagree here. Knowing the exact condition of someone is impossible, one just needs to make judgement calls all the time to know how hurt others actually are and who needs treatment first.

Your DM's house rule is fine.

Sisyfos
von Szass
05-26-04, 07:08 AM In my main group we do the healing spells often after battle.

After bigger battles we often pause and plan our next steps. If we have multiple heavily wounded characters we discuss OOC what to do, taking HP, the role of the character in combat etc. in mind.

If IC someone is in trouble with health we roleplay it out. Often: "Taklyyyyyyynnn!!!š Could use a little health here."

š Gold dwarf bard
Vaettyr
05-26-04, 09:39 AM In the games I've played in we never share HP OOC if it would directly affect someone's character's actions. If it gets down to the wire to figure out who needs to be healed first we usually use a spot check to figure out who's in worse condition (DC 5, but no numbers, just a percentage or "he's looking really bad"). Out of Combat situations and when it doesn't really matter if the players know (healing before setting up camp) then we use numbers, but aside from that we keep it pretty IC.

I don't like the idea of a DM knowing my HP and XP and not letting me know, simply because it opens up to many possibilities, and there's no good reason for me not to know. It'd be like rushing into combat and not feeling anything until you're almost ready to collapse. Your personal HP is vital to your decisions in combat, and should never be withheld. A lot of PCs could very easily die that way.

As for the XP, I honestly don't see the point and think it would create extra book work for the DM, but am not opposed to it. As long as I were to level up at appropriate times for the challenges I'd been facing, that's one less thing I'd have to worry about. Again though, I can't think of any good reason to keep this knowledge from the players, especially if you have a wizard who needs to send XP on spells or to make items. That info is as vital as HP is to a fighter.
crazysamaritan
05-26-04, 09:55 AM Sisyfos is right, check the spell deathwatch. That shows "exactly" how much health they have left. Without the spell, a person can be fooled by a bluff check to seem more/less wounded.

But the XP... eh, that I'd like to know, at least a general idea, esp. at higher levels where the wiz/sorc cast XP component spells.
Yruc
05-26-04, 10:05 AM You're the new guy and you're trying to change a house rule? :uh-huh:

Good luck.

If its that important to know current Hit points the Sisyfos suggestion of casting deathwatch is your best bet. As for the XP, as long as your DM is keeping an accurate account and you are leveling up no real need (unless casting spells with XP cost then you might talk to the DM about him letting you know)
zerpentor
05-26-04, 10:55 AM on the contrary... i would hate it if i couldnt see how bad i was injured... if you know the approximate damage dealt to your character you are able to consider if this foe is too much for you and you are able to surrender/flee if you get beaten up too much.

about XP I would not deprive my players of the excitement they feel when they get close to a lvl-up.
Orion959
05-26-04, 10:11 PM Hey there. Been reading your viewpoints, and I thought I would pipe in. :D

I was a Field Medic in the military for a number of years, and saw more action than I care to remember.

It was very easy to determine who needed help the most.

It's called 'medical training', which D&D translates into the 'Heal' skill. The term 'triage' came of this, in order to determine degrees of severity.

I would say if you have any ranks in heal, you should get a roll to determine general health, if it is grossly physical injury (sword blows, claw and teeth marks, etc.)

Disease and/or poison may be a little more difficult to determine, depending on the physical manifestation of said ailment.

The Heal skill talks about treating injury, poison and disease. I would have to argue that to treat an ailment, you would have to determine its presence.

Ask if you could make a spot check, perhaps with a synergy bonus if you had ranks in heal, to determine general status.

---

As far as the xp thing goes, I don't like it, but maybe the DM has had issues with cheating. Our DM's keep a running total of xp, because of just that reason.
edgelett
05-26-04, 10:22 PM hmmm...yeah I recon I'd need to know how much damage my own character has taken, otherwise how are you to know that running forth with a charge attack is going to end up in death???

and XP - yeah i have issues with that too. If the DM thinks people will cheat, then how about you BOTH have a running total?? I like the feel of "woo hoo!! I only need 300xp till next level!!!'
CJ1720
05-26-04, 10:44 PM The question is, though, do you need the numbers or just descriptions like "You're very wounded," "You're slightly wounded," etc.

I've hurt myself before IR and hadn't realized how bad it was until later. I figure most people have or know someone who has.

All of the vital information can be role played.

A similar thing goes for XP. Why do you need to know it, other than for deciding whether a spell or device is worth casting or making? All you need to know is when you level up.

If the DM doesn't award XP's until you've hit a "down" time, what does it matter?

Withholding the information may help you role play more than have OOC discussions. You may have to discuss your conditions more than just exchange HP information. "Wow, you look really bad!" or "Help the others, this is only a scratch!"

The rule is pregnant with possibilities. Try adjusting to it before changing it. Who knows, you may end up preferring it.
Clawshrimp
05-26-04, 10:47 PM Before trying to change the rule you need to know what kind of game your DM is running, there are two ways of doing HP.

First is the traditional way, i.e following the rules, this causes the system to be more of a "game", if its a strongly combat based game then yes you need to know exact HP, this system works better for dungeon crawls or "kick in the door" style of play

the second way is if the game is more about the Role Playing aspect then i would have to agree with your DM, it is impossible to look at a person and tell exactly how much "Health" the person has (or in rpg term how quickly he will die)

Got all that?
Mr.Waesel
05-27-04, 05:59 AM Well, yes, it is a normal game.

Any suggestions on how I can convince the players?
Alendra
05-27-04, 10:03 AM My players keep track of their own HP, but have asked that I don't award XP at the end of each game session. They'd rather just know when they level.

So far it seems to be working. The game is quite roleplay intensive (set in Ravenloft), and I think that constant worrying about whether they're going to make the 300XP they need to level would detract from that a little. The players concentrate more on what's actually happening, and the backstory, and less about worrying about whether they'll survive to next level.

They have no problems with not knowing their XP (but then, they asked me to run it that way), and it's shaping up to be a great campaign. Of course, it means that they have to trust me to play fair, but it also means that I have slightly more leeway in awarding XP (e.g. for roleplaying), and I can keep a closer eye on telling the story.
Krelios
05-27-04, 10:26 AM A DM that wants to keep all your HP and XP secret isn't looking for "exciting" adventures, he's planning to fudge a lot and probably railroad you too. There's no real reason to keep them all to himself otherwise. Leave the group if you can't convince the other players to use the rules.
Tyron
05-27-04, 10:27 AM This is the coolest house rule I have ever heard of :D . Is he a bookkeeper or something?
FineasBoggs
05-28-04, 10:10 PM Two ways to deal with it:

1. Ask what color the mouse over effect is on the character in question.

2. You just say, "Elf needs food badly" when you are in need of some healing.

http://webpages.charter.net/acamphuysen/manshoon_mage_sigil.gif
Brand Finbuck
05-28-04, 11:49 PM I've toyed with doing this myself, but ultimately decided against it.

It's acceptable if the DM is giving you good combat narrations and letting you know through description how you are.

If he says 'The Kyton hits you twice with its chain... your turn.'

Then this rule is not wise.
RainCloud
05-29-04, 12:22 AM xp secret, no biggie
hp secret, no biggie

just ask things like, "how bad does he look?"
or
"How wounded is he?"
you'll have to get a response and should get a fair idea of the amount of HP remaining.
like the DM says, just adjust, it could be way more fun than simple number crunching.
Mr.Waesel
05-30-04, 08:49 AM I managed to argue it down to being able to make a heal check to know hp. Thanks, all :)
Noriass Gato
06-03-04, 09:33 AM Not knowing your exact HP - our GM sometimes (not every time) uses this rule. It is more work for GM thing, after all, but it really removes from game the considerations like:

"Okay, that guy does max 20 hp damage so far, i have 24 left, so i can take that one last hit he may make at me if i do not finish him with my charge"

GM just tells us - you feel weaker you feel, one more such a strike and it will be your last you feel ready to die on the spot...

Also, the priests are more unsure, as noone could point them, you need not the cure serious but just cire light to feel almost well.

We still do this in afterbattle healing - nobody is telling "I need 16 hp cured!" Instead its - "Pal, if you do that good healing spell, the one you did on me last time, then i think i will be fine". Ok, 2d8+6 later, its either "Thanks pal, that was just what i need" or "you know, i could use a bit more of your prayers... Just a little bit"

And of course, it lets some of us roleplay their chars to the hilt. A wizard wailing hes gonna die after getting a scratch (-2 hp from 18) etc etc, or the tough fighter just going on, not admitting he needs cure, and letting the priest do a spot to notice he is ready to faint from wounds and holds just on sheer will.
SureFoot
06-03-04, 10:26 AM Originally posted by Krelios
A DM that wants to keep all your HP and XP secret isn't looking for "exciting" adventures, he's planning to fudge a lot and probably railroad you too. There's no real reason to keep them all to himself otherwise. Leave the group if you can't convince the other players to use the rules.

Sorry, Krelios, but I take very strong issue with your line of reasoning.

You might be right, and in your experience, you probably are right (hence your reasoning). But you've got a false premise here:

Fudging die rolls = likely railroading.

The DM fudging die rolls has a long and glorious tradition in the game. As DM, it's entirely your prerogative to fudge every single die roll--in fact, the DM has every right to not roll a single die (I would strongly advise against *that*, but you could do it). As DM, I used to fudge die rolls a lot, and it was almost always in the players' favor (make a damage roll just low enough to not knock a player out, for example). The DM who mentored me fudged rolls all the time, and no one ever thought he was railroading (he's probably the best DM I'd ever had).

As for those who say "you need to know your exact HP to determine whether you're going to charge into battle," I say, have you ever actually been injured before? In the heat of battle, have you ever been hurt and have to decide what your best course of action really is?

I once sparred an individual and got kicked in the shin so hard that I got a welt the size of a baseball (literally) after. I didn't feel a thing when it happened, but if I'd gotten hit there again, I would likely have not been able to continue. But I acted as if I was uninjured, because I didn't know I was injured.

I opine that knowing your exact HP is pure metagaming. The average person, even the above-average person, is not very likely to be able to weigh with absolute accuracy the number and degree of damage of sword/arrow/mace hits he's received and determine whether he should charge a particular enemy or fall back, all in a 6-second period. Hell, you might not even be aware that someoen actually cut/shot you, particularly if you're fighting multiple opponents (I once read a story where a dude cut his jugular with a chainsaw that had bounced back, and didnt' realize it until he saw he was covered in blood).

I say, give the house rules an honest-to-goodness try (meaning at least a couple of sessions). It will probably make combat much more realistic (read: scary and uncertain). You might grow to like it. If, after a reasonable time, you find that it does detract from your fun, approach the DM again and tell him so.
CJ1720
06-03-04, 06:50 PM Originally posted by Mr.Waesel
I managed to argue it down to being able to make a heal check to know hp. Thanks, all :)

It's too bad that you were too... whatever... of a new way of doing things to give it a try and see if it worked. I think you lost a great role play opportunity and opted instead for the roll play that hp and xp give you.

Oh well, to each his own.
edgelett
06-03-04, 07:39 PM Originally posted by FineasBoggs
Two ways to deal with it:
2. You just say, "Elf needs food badly" when you are in need of some healing.

http://webpages.charter.net/acamphuysen/manshoon_mage_sigil.gif

lol - i loved that game!!
Hathorym
06-04-04, 02:52 AM Personally, I'd be thankful that the DM didn't just kick you to the curb. If any new player came into my group and starting passing judgement about my game that was going on LONG before he or she ever arrived, I'd make sure they knew how to get to the door. Whatever rules there were before you arrived worked pretty well, and they'll continue to work well without you.
boytbpc
06-04-04, 09:30 AM I'm going to try to talk my dm in keeping track of our XP and HP now. I think it's a great idea if done properly. Like Noriass Gato said, it's great to hear people roleplaying the curing. I'd love to hear "Not the big healing spell, but maybe something to take the sting away."

Also, my DM has an XP system based upong giving an 1 excellent, 2 goods, and 2 averages, and we vote who gets what. I think it sucks (unfortunatley I'm the one who came up with the idea) because it just makes for more metagaming. Therefore by keeping xp relatively secret its no big deal. When a mage is casting a spell with an xp cost just ask the DM, "How do I feel this is going to affect my ability to perform, i.e. cast spells?" and if he says "not at all" cool, or "maybe, you'd be wiped out for a while", or "Yeah, you'd notice it" then you could make up your mind.

just my 2nt$

Boytbpc
Demon Lightfoot
06-04-04, 09:50 AM Just because it's a long-running house rule doesn't make it automatically right, just, smart and correct.

Keep questioning, Mr.Waesel; you aren't wrong to do it. It's very likely that you've gotten them to re-examine long-held assumptions and it appears that they've found them to be wanting.

Good job.
trapspringer
06-05-04, 02:02 PM By a wand o cure minor wounds. It heals 1hp. Buy a wand of inflict minor wounds, which damages one hp. Jsut figure it out from there.

You inflict till you can not walk up to a wall, and hit it with a stick. That is 0hp. The use the CMW wands to heal up to full, counting charges.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mr.Waesel 05-26-04, 05:02 AM	In a new game I just entered, the DM has a houserule that both HP and XP are kept secret, "to make it more exciting". (yuo do get some notion of how fare gone you are, but that starts at 50% of your max health or less. I talked to the DM about how stupid that rule was, but he brushed aside my comments by saying that "I just needed to adjust" (which made me even more annoyed) He has, however, allowed me to convince the other players (longtime users of this rule) about my point of view. If I can convine all of them, the houserule will be removed. Any suggestions? :)
zerpentor 05-26-04, 06:36 AM	ok here's what you do 1: Convince the others 2: Adjust to the rule 3: Leave game
von Szass 05-26-04, 06:39 AM	"Secret HP"? How to convince the group? How the hell could you not see/feel your injuries & diseases? IC, you shouldn't talk about HP. But you should always ask how the enemy looks like: unhurt, scratched, wounded, heavily wounded, etc. The same way you can talk to the DM, if he inquires about your status. But OOC the players should be able to know each others current HP, to find out who's the one which should be treated first if there are only few spells left.
Sisyfos 05-26-04, 06:49 AM	Originally posted by von Szass unhurt, scratched, wounded, heavily wounded, etc. The same way you can talk to the DM, if he inquires about your status. But OOC the players should be able to know each others current HP, to find out who's the one which should be treated first if there are only few spells left. I used to be a combat medic in military (training only, no action), and I have to disagree here. Knowing the exact condition of someone is impossible, one just needs to make judgement calls all the time to know how hurt others actually are and who needs treatment first. Your DM's house rule is fine. Sisyfos
von Szass 05-26-04, 07:08 AM	In my main group we do the healing spells often after battle. After bigger battles we often pause and plan our next steps. If we have multiple heavily wounded characters we discuss OOC what to do, taking HP, the role of the character in combat etc. in mind. If IC someone is in trouble with health we roleplay it out. Often: "Taklyyyyyyynnn!!!š Could use a little health here." š Gold dwarf bard
Vaettyr 05-26-04, 09:39 AM	In the games I've played in we never share HP OOC if it would directly affect someone's character's actions. If it gets down to the wire to figure out who needs to be healed first we usually use a spot check to figure out who's in worse condition (DC 5, but no numbers, just a percentage or "he's looking really bad"). Out of Combat situations and when it doesn't really matter if the players know (healing before setting up camp) then we use numbers, but aside from that we keep it pretty IC. I don't like the idea of a DM knowing my HP and XP and not letting me know, simply because it opens up to many possibilities, and there's no good reason for me not to know. It'd be like rushing into combat and not feeling anything until you're almost ready to collapse. Your personal HP is vital to your decisions in combat, and should never be withheld. A lot of PCs could very easily die that way. As for the XP, I honestly don't see the point and think it would create extra book work for the DM, but am not opposed to it. As long as I were to level up at appropriate times for the challenges I'd been facing, that's one less thing I'd have to worry about. Again though, I can't think of any good reason to keep this knowledge from the players, especially if you have a wizard who needs to send XP on spells or to make items. That info is as vital as HP is to a fighter.
crazysamaritan 05-26-04, 09:55 AM	Sisyfos is right, check the spell deathwatch. That shows "exactly" how much health they have left. Without the spell, a person can be fooled by a bluff check to seem more/less wounded. But the XP... eh, that I'd like to know, at least a general idea, esp. at higher levels where the wiz/sorc cast XP component spells.
Yruc 05-26-04, 10:05 AM	You're the new guy and you're trying to change a house rule? :uh-huh: Good luck. If its that important to know current Hit points the Sisyfos suggestion of casting deathwatch is your best bet. As for the XP, as long as your DM is keeping an accurate account and you are leveling up no real need (unless casting spells with XP cost then you might talk to the DM about him letting you know)
zerpentor 05-26-04, 10:55 AM	on the contrary... i would hate it if i couldnt see how bad i was injured... if you know the approximate damage dealt to your character you are able to consider if this foe is too much for you and you are able to surrender/flee if you get beaten up too much. about XP I would not deprive my players of the excitement they feel when they get close to a lvl-up.
Orion959 05-26-04, 10:11 PM	Hey there. Been reading your viewpoints, and I thought I would pipe in. :D I was a Field Medic in the military for a number of years, and saw more action than I care to remember. It was very easy to determine who needed help the most. It's called 'medical training', which D&D translates into the 'Heal' skill. The term 'triage' came of this, in order to determine degrees of severity. I would say if you have any ranks in heal, you should get a roll to determine general health, if it is grossly physical injury (sword blows, claw and teeth marks, etc.) Disease and/or poison may be a little more difficult to determine, depending on the physical manifestation of said ailment. The Heal skill talks about treating injury, poison and disease. I would have to argue that to treat an ailment, you would have to determine its presence. Ask if you could make a spot check, perhaps with a synergy bonus if you had ranks in heal, to determine general status. --- As far as the xp thing goes, I don't like it, but maybe the DM has had issues with cheating. Our DM's keep a running total of xp, because of just that reason.
edgelett 05-26-04, 10:22 PM	hmmm...yeah I recon I'd need to know how much damage my own character has taken, otherwise how are you to know that running forth with a charge attack is going to end up in death??? and XP - yeah i have issues with that too. If the DM thinks people will cheat, then how about you BOTH have a running total?? I like the feel of "woo hoo!! I only need 300xp till next level!!!'
CJ1720 05-26-04, 10:44 PM	The question is, though, do you need the numbers or just descriptions like "You're very wounded," "You're slightly wounded," etc. I've hurt myself before IR and hadn't realized how bad it was until later. I figure most people have or know someone who has. All of the vital information can be role played. A similar thing goes for XP. Why do you need to know it, other than for deciding whether a spell or device is worth casting or making? All you need to know is when you level up. If the DM doesn't award XP's until you've hit a "down" time, what does it matter? Withholding the information may help you role play more than have OOC discussions. You may have to discuss your conditions more than just exchange HP information. "Wow, you look really bad!" or "Help the others, this is only a scratch!" The rule is pregnant with possibilities. Try adjusting to it before changing it. Who knows, you may end up preferring it.
Clawshrimp 05-26-04, 10:47 PM	Before trying to change the rule you need to know what kind of game your DM is running, there are two ways of doing HP. First is the traditional way, i.e following the rules, this causes the system to be more of a "game", if its a strongly combat based game then yes you need to know exact HP, this system works better for dungeon crawls or "kick in the door" style of play the second way is if the game is more about the Role Playing aspect then i would have to agree with your DM, it is impossible to look at a person and tell exactly how much "Health" the person has (or in rpg term how quickly he will die) Got all that?
Mr.Waesel 05-27-04, 05:59 AM	Well, yes, it is a normal game. Any suggestions on how I can convince the players?
Alendra 05-27-04, 10:03 AM	My players keep track of their own HP, but have asked that I don't award XP at the end of each game session. They'd rather just know when they level. So far it seems to be working. The game is quite roleplay intensive (set in Ravenloft), and I think that constant worrying about whether they're going to make the 300XP they need to level would detract from that a little. The players concentrate more on what's actually happening, and the backstory, and less about worrying about whether they'll survive to next level. They have no problems with not knowing their XP (but then, they asked me to run it that way), and it's shaping up to be a great campaign. Of course, it means that they have to trust me to play fair, but it also means that I have slightly more leeway in awarding XP (e.g. for roleplaying), and I can keep a closer eye on telling the story.
Krelios 05-27-04, 10:26 AM	A DM that wants to keep all your HP and XP secret isn't looking for "exciting" adventures, he's planning to fudge a lot and probably railroad you too. There's no real reason to keep them all to himself otherwise. Leave the group if you can't convince the other players to use the rules.
Tyron 05-27-04, 10:27 AM	This is the coolest house rule I have ever heard of :D . Is he a bookkeeper or something?
FineasBoggs 05-28-04, 10:10 PM	Two ways to deal with it: 1. Ask what color the mouse over effect is on the character in question. 2. You just say, "Elf needs food badly" when you are in need of some healing. http://webpages.charter.net/acamphuysen/manshoon_mage_sigil.gif
Brand Finbuck 05-28-04, 11:49 PM	I've toyed with doing this myself, but ultimately decided against it. It's acceptable if the DM is giving you good combat narrations and letting you know through description how you are. If he says 'The Kyton hits you twice with its chain... your turn.' Then this rule is not wise.
RainCloud 05-29-04, 12:22 AM	xp secret, no biggie hp secret, no biggie just ask things like, "how bad does he look?" or "How wounded is he?" you'll have to get a response and should get a fair idea of the amount of HP remaining. like the DM says, just adjust, it could be way more fun than simple number crunching.
Mr.Waesel 05-30-04, 08:49 AM	I managed to argue it down to being able to make a heal check to know hp. Thanks, all :)
Noriass Gato 06-03-04, 09:33 AM	Not knowing your exact HP - our GM sometimes (not every time) uses this rule. It is more work for GM thing, after all, but it really removes from game the considerations like: "Okay, that guy does max 20 hp damage so far, i have 24 left, so i can take that one last hit he may make at me if i do not finish him with my charge" GM just tells us - you feel weaker you feel, one more such a strike and it will be your last you feel ready to die on the spot... Also, the priests are more unsure, as noone could point them, you need not the cure serious but just cire light to feel almost well. We still do this in afterbattle healing - nobody is telling "I need 16 hp cured!" Instead its - "Pal, if you do that good healing spell, the one you did on me last time, then i think i will be fine". Ok, 2d8+6 later, its either "Thanks pal, that was just what i need" or "you know, i could use a bit more of your prayers... Just a little bit" And of course, it lets some of us roleplay their chars to the hilt. A wizard wailing hes gonna die after getting a scratch (-2 hp from 18) etc etc, or the tough fighter just going on, not admitting he needs cure, and letting the priest do a spot to notice he is ready to faint from wounds and holds just on sheer will.
SureFoot 06-03-04, 10:26 AM	Originally posted by Krelios A DM that wants to keep all your HP and XP secret isn't looking for "exciting" adventures, he's planning to fudge a lot and probably railroad you too. There's no real reason to keep them all to himself otherwise. Leave the group if you can't convince the other players to use the rules. Sorry, Krelios, but I take very strong issue with your line of reasoning. You might be right, and in your experience, you probably are right (hence your reasoning). But you've got a false premise here: Fudging die rolls = likely railroading. The DM fudging die rolls has a long and glorious tradition in the game. As DM, it's entirely your prerogative to fudge every single die roll--in fact, the DM has every right to not roll a single die (I would strongly advise against that, but you could do it). As DM, I used to fudge die rolls a lot, and it was almost always in the players' favor (make a damage roll just low enough to not knock a player out, for example). The DM who mentored me fudged rolls all the time, and no one ever thought he was railroading (he's probably the best DM I'd ever had). As for those who say "you need to know your exact HP to determine whether you're going to charge into battle," I say, have you ever actually been injured before? In the heat of battle, have you ever been hurt and have to decide what your best course of action really is? I once sparred an individual and got kicked in the shin so hard that I got a welt the size of a baseball (literally) after. I didn't feel a thing when it happened, but if I'd gotten hit there again, I would likely have not been able to continue. But I acted as if I was uninjured, because I didn't know I was injured. I opine that knowing your exact HP is pure metagaming. The average person, even the above-average person, is not very likely to be able to weigh with absolute accuracy the number and degree of damage of sword/arrow/mace hits he's received and determine whether he should charge a particular enemy or fall back, all in a 6-second period. Hell, you might not even be aware that someoen actually cut/shot you, particularly if you're fighting multiple opponents (I once read a story where a dude cut his jugular with a chainsaw that had bounced back, and didnt' realize it until he saw he was covered in blood). I say, give the house rules an honest-to-goodness try (meaning at least a couple of sessions). It will probably make combat much more realistic (read: scary and uncertain). You might grow to like it. If, after a reasonable time, you find that it does detract from your fun, approach the DM again and tell him so.
CJ1720 06-03-04, 06:50 PM	Originally posted by Mr.Waesel I managed to argue it down to being able to make a heal check to know hp. Thanks, all :) It's too bad that you were too... whatever... of a new way of doing things to give it a try and see if it worked. I think you lost a great role play opportunity and opted instead for the roll play that hp and xp give you. Oh well, to each his own.
edgelett 06-03-04, 07:39 PM	Originally posted by FineasBoggs Two ways to deal with it: 2. You just say, "Elf needs food badly" when you are in need of some healing. http://webpages.charter.net/acamphuysen/manshoon_mage_sigil.gif lol - i loved that game!!
Hathorym 06-04-04, 02:52 AM	Personally, I'd be thankful that the DM didn't just kick you to the curb. If any new player came into my group and starting passing judgement about my game that was going on LONG before he or she ever arrived, I'd make sure they knew how to get to the door. Whatever rules there were before you arrived worked pretty well, and they'll continue to work well without you.
boytbpc 06-04-04, 09:30 AM	I'm going to try to talk my dm in keeping track of our XP and HP now. I think it's a great idea if done properly. Like Noriass Gato said, it's great to hear people roleplaying the curing. I'd love to hear "Not the big healing spell, but maybe something to take the sting away." Also, my DM has an XP system based upong giving an 1 excellent, 2 goods, and 2 averages, and we vote who gets what. I think it sucks (unfortunatley I'm the one who came up with the idea) because it just makes for more metagaming. Therefore by keeping xp relatively secret its no big deal. When a mage is casting a spell with an xp cost just ask the DM, "How do I feel this is going to affect my ability to perform, i.e. cast spells?" and if he says "not at all" cool, or "maybe, you'd be wiped out for a while", or "Yeah, you'd notice it" then you could make up your mind. just my 2nt$ Boytbpc
Demon Lightfoot 06-04-04, 09:50 AM	Just because it's a long-running house rule doesn't make it automatically right, just, smart and correct. Keep questioning, Mr.Waesel; you aren't wrong to do it. It's very likely that you've gotten them to re-examine long-held assumptions and it appears that they've found them to be wanting. Good job.
trapspringer 06-05-04, 02:02 PM	By a wand o cure minor wounds. It heals 1hp. Buy a wand of inflict minor wounds, which damages one hp. Jsut figure it out from there. You inflict till you can not walk up to a wall, and hit it with a stick. That is 0hp. The use the CMW wands to heal up to full, counting charges.