Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gavinfoxx 05-16-07, 10:54 PM	Hi there, I was looking for any alternative Lawful Good (no paladins of freedom...) codes of conduct for my halfling paladin that might be on the boards or in some books somewhere.. Could anyone help either point me towards some alternative codes of conduct for paladins, or perhaps help me come up with one here or changes to the basic code of conduct? This is for a halfling paladin using a custom PrC class that specializes in being a mounted combatant over the more traditional abilities.
BreegJac17 05-16-07, 11:16 PM	Maybe the code could be your deity's dogma??
Marendithas_the_Necro 05-16-07, 11:16 PM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVaria ntsFreedomSlaughterAndTyranny
Gavinfoxx 05-16-07, 11:19 PM	Did you just ignore the part about being a Lawful Good Paladin of Honor? just one with a slightly non-core code...
hiryuu 05-17-07, 01:27 AM	Paladin code I tend to use: _______________ The Paladin’s Code Virtue – A paladin must be pure in heart and soul. There is no room for doubt or thought. Once all darkness has been purged from the soul of the paladin, there is no more need for thought. Virtue must come of its own accord, but it must also be sought. One who is pure in word and deed need not fear anything, even the truth, for he has already seen and embraced such truth. This is not to say a paladin may not engage in certain activities. Alcohol and drugs can lead to sin, however, so the paladin must usually avoid them. A consensual act of sex, however, is perfectly alright, and, considering the church, may even be encouraged (some churches, however, equate such acts with sin. This makes them no better or worse, however, here, discretion is the better part of valor). Honesty – A paladin is honest. Many have taken this to mean that the paladin speaks no lies. Instead, this means that the paladin’s words and deeds must be aligned, and his actions must be truthful to his thoughts and ideals. A paladin may employ trickery and deception, if it serves the cause of righteousness. A paladin is not a creature of morals. Many may take this to mean that the paladin has no morals, or may make his own morals. This is not true; one who is honest with the self and with the world around her needs no moral guidepost save for her own pure soul. Piety & Humility – A pious man seeks not riches, and a humble man realizes his own follies. He realizes that his powers are given by greater beings, and that to retain such favor, he must show the same courtesy and respect such a being gives to all living creatures. A paladin is humble before the forces of light. Not only to his own church, but all churches who strive to do right in the world must be acknowledged and honored, even if their path is the wrong one, for they all work for the common good. This means a paladin can tithe to not simply the church, but any being or organization he trusts will do right with his donations. A paladin is also active in the community. As strong a foe he is against the forces of evil, his undoubtedly strong back and endurance would serve in as much good stead to help rebuild destroyed homes, put out fires, and assist in expanding the community. Let the cleric organize the politics, but let the paladin do what must be done. Battling Evil – A fiend and monster deserves nor receives mercy. Such things are rotten and dark to the core. An evil human, however, is often merely misguided, and as for the evil that orcs do, orc society is the culprit, not the individual orc. Unless one wishes to destroy the very core of orc society, a monumental and impossible task, there is no sense in trying to change such a thing as a whole. Simply detecting evil on a being does not mean the paladin can leap to his mount and draw his blade; he must consider all factors in such a confrontation. Battling the forces of darkness is the paladin’s meat and drink. The soldier of light is truly alive when facing down ineffable evil. An evil orc, however, is merely doing what it must do. One must learn to face each new confrontation with evil in a different way. The dark fiend must be slain, however, the orc can be captured and face the justice of the people he dares to attack. Justice – All things deserve fair justice, even the evil man accused of murder. When there is no proof of the accusation, nothing can be done. The mere presence of evil denotes nothing but its presence. It does not make it a constant factor. Certainly the forces of evil are out there, but they are not always the culprit. A paladin who leaps to two-fisted justice is down the path of anger and violence, and this can lead to a loss of powers as well. A paladin cannot decide justice. He is not a judge or a barrister (usually). Instead, the paladin metes out justice. He can, in some cases, adjudicate disputes, but he has no right to seal the final fate of any intelligent, free-willed being he encounters save in self-defense (exception: things which are irredeemable). Being Lawful Good – A paladin must adhere to his code, that of his own, that of good, and that of his church (if he belongs to a church; if not, he almost certainly has his own moral code). Simply because a law is of the land does not make it just or right. In such cases, the good and true justice must be upheld. A paladin is fully capable of cutting a man from the gallows rope if he knows it to be a right and just act, but he must be prepared to defend himself with a minimum of bloodshed and a reason for his actions, for man is not as forgiving as gods.
calronmoonflower 05-17-07, 03:38 AM	Oriental Adventures has the code of Bushido on page 221. It should work well with a paladin if you replace loyalty to your lord with deity (or ideals). here's a code that I like paraphrased from Dragonheart. My sword to protect the innocent. My strength to uphold the weak. My wraith to undo the wicked. My word to speak only the truth.
Neutronium_Dragon 05-17-07, 03:46 AM	The old 2E FR book had an excellent sidebar detailing the paladin's code as it applied there. It consists of several general principles rather than having explicit "thou shalt (not)" rules, and it's fully understood within this one that sometimes those principles will conflict. This isn't an inherent problem and different paladins will tend to prioritize some over others; as long as the paladin holds true to the overall spirit of those principles, that's what matters. -- The Paladin's Virtues are: An organized approach brings the most good for all. Laws exist to bring prosperity to those under them. Unjust laws must be overturned or changed in a reasonable and positive fashion. People rule; laws help. Cause the most good through the least harm. Protect the weak. Goodness is not a natural state, but must be fought for to be attained and maintained. Lead by example. Let your deeds speak your intentions. Goodness radiates from the heart. Give others your mercy, but keep your wits about you. --
LCD2YOU 05-17-07, 10:35 AM	For the truly absurd: DM's Paladin Don't forget that there is no "universal honor code", not even IRL. Applying 12th Century French ideals of Chivalry into a world where magic is real, demons do lurk in the shadows, shapechangers and more is a death sentence unless massive DM Metagaming is involved. A more detailed discussion is here: Honor: DnD vs Real World When you make your Paladin, make sure you don't make them impotent. The world around them changes the very definition of "honor", "fair play" and such.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 05-17-07, 11:00 AM	For the truly absurd: DM's Paladin That is priceless! :rofl: I just wish it weren't so true. :weep:
Toran_A_Sunder 05-17-07, 11:06 AM	If you want some "alternate" codes, you might consider the codes of certain real word groups. Consider, if you will, role playing out the Code of Bushido. Or look up chivalry and try fllowing the rules inherent in that system of living. Or look up info on the Knights Templar, or other such groups. All this groups have similarities, but are vastly different in the rules they created and followed. Mix and match even. Come up with your own code. Perhaps as a paladin he has to swear unerring devotion to his god, must commit ritual suicide if he fails in combat (sepuku) but, in a twist of chivalry, doesn't have to be particularly dashing or chivalrous when dealing with women? Just an idea
The Ubbergeek 05-17-07, 12:58 PM	You can always look at the moral codes that the Avatar is based on in the Ultima games, that was rather complex. The 8 virtues and the trhee principles...
twad 05-17-07, 09:41 PM	This could be a good paladin code IMO.. - A paladin is basicaly a good fighter/cleric, a holy warrior, so play him as such. - Dont be stupid AND dont be evil. - A paladin can be arrogant, impolite, drunk and poor at table manners. - Dont boss the other characters around "just because you are a paladin". The rogue is just as good as you even if he like dark places. - Play just as any other good character would... in other words; Be a HERO. - If you reeealllly want a code; have fun, work as a team with your friends, and make sure the others have fun too.
DarkNick 05-17-07, 09:50 PM	This could be a good paladin code IMO.. - A paladin is basicaly a good fighter/cleric, a holy warrior, so play him as such. - Dont be stupid AND dont be evil. - A paladin can be arrogant, impolite, drunk and poor at table manners. - Dont boss the other characters around "just because you are a paladin". The rogue is just as good as you even if he like dark places. - Play just as any other good character would... in other words; Be a HERO. - If you reeealllly want a code; have fun, work as a team with your friends, and make sure the others have fun too. Thank Ala, This is one of the most sensible things I have heard for a long time - I'm going to cut and paste this into my PHB. You're my hero twad :love:
twad 05-17-07, 09:55 PM	Thank Ala, This is one of the most sensible things I have heard for a long time - I'm going to cut and paste this into my PHB. You're my hero twad :love: Thanks! And glory for the future paladins in your games!
Gavinfoxx 05-17-07, 11:22 PM	okay, this is the part of the main code that mentions specific actions, rather than, for example, more generic ethics: "Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents." The "act with honor" part is interesting. Would an herbal drink that renders someone unconscious be a poison? What if you want to disable but not permanalty damage someone? Most poisons are nonlethal... should the paladin be barred from using lethal poisons instead? Or perhaps barred from using poisons _in combat_? What about lying? A paladin's word should be strong as adamantine, but what about other forms of deception? Changing "no lying" to something like "A paladin's word is her honor, and a Paladin must not break her word." This still allows for a paladin to be part of some activity that uses deception, as long as she does not have to break her word. What is defined as cheating? Is attacking someone who is flat footed with a sneak attack cheating? Is laying in ambush cheating? How about Coup De Grace on a foe? I think a paladin should be able to ambush someone, under certain circumstances. A paladin should at least be able to ambush undead and evil outsiders... and CDG should be allowed on evil foes that haven't surrendered, even if they are helpless... So if we are watering down the part that mentions specific actions, is there any part we can make stronger? Perhaps something against stealing? Something about refraining from sexual misconduct? How about refrain from intoxicants (in many societies, this means you can have the weak beer that is often the only thing thats pure and safe to drink, aside from water that has been purified. its wine or other harder drinks that you can't have...but a paladin who is immune to disease should always choose water if available...)? Maybe something requiring to guard the way of life that she is a part of against all who threaten it? How about something that requires her to work towards charity and donate some of her resources to charity? Ohh, I know, there should be a restriction on denying any soul its afterlife, either by destroying the soul or putting it in a limbo or anything like that... and it should mention something about when it is and isnt appropriate to take prisoners...
LCD2YOU 05-18-07, 09:26 AM	okay, this is the part of the main code that mentions specific actions, rather than, for example, more generic ethics: "Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents."And this is a big one. What is "legitimate authority"? Is it a CE Barony? What about a LE Empire where slaves can be killed at will by their owners? What about a so called democracy where offices and more are sold to the highest bidder? Personally, I think to a Paladin "legitimate authority" are those places where they have an outlook close to the Paladin's credo. Otherwise, if a Paladin holds any government to be "legit", then as in the case of the LE Empire, if the Pally captures a runaway slave, he would be honor bound to return the "wayward property" so they can be punished.The "act with honor" part is interesting. Would an herbal drink that renders someone unconscious be a poison? What if you want to disable but not permanalty damage someone? Most poisons are nonlethal... should the paladin be barred from using lethal poisons instead? Or perhaps barred from using poisons _in combat_?I personally think that in many cases, a Paladin who uses sleep poison to find evil doers in a place full of innocents is far more merciful than most. Many have issues with poisons but a slam to the body with "non-lethal damage", truly a misnomer as eventually even "non-lethal" can be lethal, or burning them with a Fireball is a ok. That is for you to decide.What about lying? A paladin's word should be strong as adamantine, but what about other forms of deception? Changing "no lying" to something like "A paladin's word is her honor, and a Paladin must not break her word." This still allows for a paladin to be part of some activity that uses deception, as long as she does not have to break her word."Ok Mr. Paladin, we know you can't lie and not telling anything or half of what we ask is a lie of ommision so still a lie. Where are all of those innocent babies at so we can sacrifice them to our dark lord?" Extreme example? Yes, but again a blanket, "You may never lie Mr. Paladin or you'll lose your Paladinhood", is foolish as well. What most need to keep on remembering that there are many different types of lies. Two are selfish lies for gain and the aultristic lies to protect. The Paladin lying to get some gold or a magic item they want is a no go. The Paladin lying or being rude to the asker of the question above is certainly a good thing.What is defined as cheating? Is attacking someone who is flat footed with a sneak attack cheating?"Oh? You don't have any weapons or honor? Gee I better take my stuff off as I don't want to cheat. What was that? A 'fury of blows'? Why cant, 'oof, oof', I, 'oof', hit you. 'Ooof'. I'm 'oof', fighting fair, 'oof, oof', and you're not. 'Oof, oof, oof, oof'. I demand that you, 'oof', fight fair!"Is laying in ambush cheating? How about Coup De Grace on a foe? I think a paladin should be able to ambush someone, under certain circumstances. A paladin should at least be able to ambush undead and evil outsiders... and CDG should be allowed on evil foes that haven't surrendered, even if they are helpless...There's a big debate on that now. In a world where a "helpless and bound" naked person can cause your head to explode, summon demons, etc., "honor" and "fair play" have totally different meanings than the stuff from some 12th Century book on Chivalry. Whatever you come up with must allow for what goes on in the your game. If you have a low or very low magic game, Chivalry works just fine. In a typical DnD world, idealized Chivalry will not last past the first few Paladins, IMHO.So if we are watering down the part that mentions specific actions, is there any part we can make stronger? Perhaps something against stealing?What's the difference between grave robbing and archeology? 150 years. The reason I said that is what makes it different between stealing and going into the ancient crypt to reclaim the "Sword of Power" from the creatures that live there? It really depends on what the creatures are using it for isn't it? A Paladin going into a dragon's lair as the dragon has amassed a great deal of treasure and is spreading their will across the region with willing human and demi-human servants sounds bad, right? If the Dragon is a Silver or Gold Dragon and they are promoting LG and there are many good hearted heros helping them, that'sa good thing. Of course if you then replace with Silver or Gold with "typical Red" and change "good heros" to vile necromancers, demon worshippers and other truly horrid peoples that's not good.Something about refraining from sexual misconduct?I'd have to say yes. The term, "sexual misconduct" to me brings up images of the Paladin forcing him or herself on someone who doesn't want their attentions. In most cases, I'd calling that "oppression" and or "coersion", two things the Paladin is against.How about refrain from intoxicants (in many societies, this means you can have the weak beer that is often the only thing thats pure and safe to drink, aside from water that has been purified. its wine or other harder drinks that you can't have...but a paladin who is immune to disease should always choose water if available...)?That's an artifact of some serious Puritanical views that have all intoxicants are bad. Drinking and getting drunk are two completely different things.Maybe something requiring to guard the way of life that she is a part of against all who threaten it? How about something that requires her to work towards charity and donate some of her resources to charity? Ohh, I know, there should be a restriction on denying any soul its afterlife, either by destroying the soul or putting it in a limbo or anything like that...Good things to think about. Charity and helping those is always a good thing, unless they use the money drinking themselves to death or beat their kids in a drunken rage.and it should mention something about when it is and isnt appropriate to take prisoners...Good point. My POV: When the risk to the group the Paladin is in or the areas they'll go through presents a grave risk of escape or death to others. Good points all.
Gavinfoxx 05-20-07, 10:45 PM	One thing that caused me to think a bit about how this paladin (which I am introducing to a role play heavy game) might affect the group is that a lot of the group is neutral, and view violence as solution to problems. The rogue was talking (in front of my existing character in the group, a chaotic good bard), about how a particular pimp in the bad side of town needs to be murdered, and that he shouldn't hire someone to do it, he should do it himself. The rogue in question was drunk, and isnt evil, but I wonder what would happen if he said that in front of the Paladin I plan on introducing to the game. Asking the character to turn himself in would potentially make the character unplayable for a while, which is something I'm willing to deviate a bit from "realistically" roleplaying the paladin so the group can work together. Of course, this doesn't mean that if confronted with that, he won't do *something*... Perhaps suggest that he start thinking things through more, see breaking the law more as a last resort, and seek atonement, both perhaps by performing a quest and the spell as well (which wouldn't have a mechanical effect on him, but might have an effect on the character?)
AffableDoomwalker 05-20-07, 10:54 PM	Make a Code of your own that fits your game.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 05-22-07, 04:54 PM	1) Preserve the public trust. 2) Protect the innocent. 3) Uphold the law. 4) Classified…
DarkNick 05-22-07, 10:08 PM	No one has really mentioned how race and culture could have an impact on the code. An elvish paladin is going to have a different outlook to a dwarven paladin. I'm sure a dwarves code would have a lot to say about the honor of their clan and the drinking of the right beer, while and elfs code would deal a lot with the correct way to frolick naked while still preserving their sense of decorum... A paladin of some barbarin tribe code might look a bit like this: 1) crush your enemies 2) see them driven before you 3) hear the lementations of the women because this is what is best and therfore good in life..... let me have a stab at a halfling paladins code for you. now halfling tend to be cunning, resourceful survivors. They are curious, daring, have a ample apitites for well cooked meals, drink, tobacco, and good clothes and they tend to spend their gold. (this is from the players) So a halflings code might mention: bravery in the pursuit of good cheerfulness in the face of danger and misery never admit defeat except where honor permits always paying for meals and showing proper respect to their hosts (e.g. be polite, repect for their hosts customs when it does not conflict with the paladins ethics, trying a bit of everything, never scathing and always thankful of a meal freely given, wear appropriate clothing whenever possible to a meal, never over indulging in alcohol as to be intoxicated, no burping or farting at the table, don't waste food, sharing tobacco with all the other guests and carrying spare pipes for those who are without...) freely sharing food with those in need i.e. they won't sit and eat a meal while a begger sits hungry outside.. correct maintenance and care of your mount. See to their care before your own. never attack the mount of a mounted combatant Skillful use of bluff and diplomacy whenever possible in the pursuit of good, but never against a hafling. Graciously concede when the bluff fails. "you found me out old chap, jolly good show..." never acting insulted by an insult always praise a clever and deserving insult "that was marvelous, very clever, bravo, had my moustach curling that one did..." never use a crude insult A lot of this is about a code of conduct around food which I think is entirely appropriate for a halfling paladin. The code does not have to cover everything. Common sense should rule when appropriate in regard to lawfulness and good (bluff and diplomacy is probably considered lawful for a halfling).
yellowdingo 05-23-07, 08:58 AM	The Paladin is an outcast who journies into hell and locks the door behind him. Oddly that puts Raistlin in Paladin country for going into the Dark to prevent the Dark Queen from entering the Light. He is effectivly doing the task that is culturally the role of the Paladin. He is holding the Door shut.