Help me help our DM [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help me help our DM [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LiamDeclan
10-03-06, 05:04 AM Okay awhile back I had a thread on here about "Theres a Red Dragon in our future".

Now the problems I/we have so far is that certain members of our party know that the 1/2 Elf we rescued from captivity is actually a juvenile Red Dragon. I did a heavy inspection of this 1/2 elf when we found him using a Detect Magic spell. I asked specifically if I noticed certain schools of magic that altered or masked a persons size or shape. The DM checked some books and said no, he told me I only saw enchanted armor, weapon and a wand on the 1/2 elf.

The DM out of game acknowledged that I was correct in my assumption of the 1/2 elf. He also said he needed to draw up the stats for him in his new form. He said that he uses a wand to polymorph into the 1/2 elf. Things he is confused about is whether or not he keeps any dragon abilities in his new shape. Other things are how often or how secretive can he be to use his wand w/o us seeing him do it. We are unsure if he still has blindsense, fire breathing, fire immunity, natural armor etc... while not in dragon form. I don't think he does from what I read about the polymorph subschool in the PHB II.

So I am asking you what stats he should have in 1/2 elf form and what abilities does he still keep.
Nikeratos
10-03-06, 11:19 AM You said the wand he uses has polymorph, so you should read carefully the description of that particular spell.

In short:

He keeps HD, alignment, HP, saves, skills (but adjust totals for new Str, Dex and Con values), and feats.

He loses all abilities that depended in any way on his original body (natural armor, breath weapon, flight, frightful presence, etc.)

He keeps all magical abilities that don't depend on his body (fire immunity, some supernatural abilities and spells.)

He gains the racial abilities of half-elves (Listen and Spot bonuses, but if you're sensible you won't allow the racial bonuses due to culture, such as Diplomacy.)

Also, you must keep record of the wand's caster level for purposes of spell duration and your chances of dispelling it.

And more importantly: unless some specific abjuration is at work, your Detect Magic SHOULD INDEED have detected the polymorph. It's a moderate transmutation that lights the alarms of any diviner. If the dragon used Alternate Form to turn into the half-elf, it would be quite a different matter, but the effect of a polymorph wand is absolutely detectable.
PhaedrusXY
10-03-06, 11:45 AM The main problems: 1) you should have detected an active transumation effect on him, 2) Polymorph only lasts for 1 minute per caster level. He'd go through a single wand in less than one day.

As for what abilities he keeps: good luck with that. I can't keep up with all the inane changes to Polymorph WotC keeps putting out. At this point, I think each DM needs to decide how to run Polymorph for themselves, and ignore WotC's ramblings on the subject.
LiamDeclan
10-03-06, 03:06 PM Thanks for the help so far.

I knew that the polymorph should have shown up under a detection spell but couldn't actually find a way to prove it at the time. We have only so much game time we can waste on rulings etc... before we continue on. Along as it isn't crucial to a players well being of course.
DFoster
10-03-06, 09:05 PM Technically "Magic Aura" (from the SRD also known as Nystal's Mystic Aura a level 1 spell) or a modified version of it if your DM is strict on the item part of the spell could hide the aura of the polymorph spell on the dragon from detect magic.
LiamDeclan
10-05-06, 10:09 AM Okay, I have spoken with my DM about the rules on seeing the aura of the polymorph spell. I have also told him the limitations on the polymorph spell and its small duration time.

He is now going to use something more permanent than a wand to carry about this charade of the 1/2 elf.

He mentioned the dragon would have an amulet or ring or some such now that would allow him to shapechange into a 1/2 elf. I told him I thought that was still pretty powerful for a juevenile dragon to have. I also said that I didn't know if shapechange would allow him to have all the dragon abilities while in his new form as well. Thats all moot because he is going to have all the abilities anyway because the item will let him. So I told him the item would probably be worth tons of cash, so in order to lower the value of it he is going with in order for it to work, you must be within a certain range of an elf or 1/2 elf for the transformation to take effect. The effect happens without consent.
TJMHPH
10-05-06, 06:32 PM have your dm pick up a copy of dragon magic. this book should give him all the help he will need and for its cost is well worth it in my opinion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LiamDeclan 10-03-06, 05:04 AM	Okay awhile back I had a thread on here about "Theres a Red Dragon in our future". Now the problems I/we have so far is that certain members of our party know that the 1/2 Elf we rescued from captivity is actually a juvenile Red Dragon. I did a heavy inspection of this 1/2 elf when we found him using a Detect Magic spell. I asked specifically if I noticed certain schools of magic that altered or masked a persons size or shape. The DM checked some books and said no, he told me I only saw enchanted armor, weapon and a wand on the 1/2 elf. The DM out of game acknowledged that I was correct in my assumption of the 1/2 elf. He also said he needed to draw up the stats for him in his new form. He said that he uses a wand to polymorph into the 1/2 elf. Things he is confused about is whether or not he keeps any dragon abilities in his new shape. Other things are how often or how secretive can he be to use his wand w/o us seeing him do it. We are unsure if he still has blindsense, fire breathing, fire immunity, natural armor etc... while not in dragon form. I don't think he does from what I read about the polymorph subschool in the PHB II. So I am asking you what stats he should have in 1/2 elf form and what abilities does he still keep.
Nikeratos 10-03-06, 11:19 AM	You said the wand he uses has polymorph, so you should read carefully the description of that particular spell. In short: He keeps HD, alignment, HP, saves, skills (but adjust totals for new Str, Dex and Con values), and feats. He loses all abilities that depended in any way on his original body (natural armor, breath weapon, flight, frightful presence, etc.) He keeps all magical abilities that don't depend on his body (fire immunity, some supernatural abilities and spells.) He gains the racial abilities of half-elves (Listen and Spot bonuses, but if you're sensible you won't allow the racial bonuses due to culture, such as Diplomacy.) Also, you must keep record of the wand's caster level for purposes of spell duration and your chances of dispelling it. And more importantly: unless some specific abjuration is at work, your Detect Magic SHOULD INDEED have detected the polymorph. It's a moderate transmutation that lights the alarms of any diviner. If the dragon used Alternate Form to turn into the half-elf, it would be quite a different matter, but the effect of a polymorph wand is absolutely detectable.
PhaedrusXY 10-03-06, 11:45 AM	The main problems: 1) you should have detected an active transumation effect on him, 2) Polymorph only lasts for 1 minute per caster level. He'd go through a single wand in less than one day. As for what abilities he keeps: good luck with that. I can't keep up with all the inane changes to Polymorph WotC keeps putting out. At this point, I think each DM needs to decide how to run Polymorph for themselves, and ignore WotC's ramblings on the subject.
LiamDeclan 10-03-06, 03:06 PM	Thanks for the help so far. I knew that the polymorph should have shown up under a detection spell but couldn't actually find a way to prove it at the time. We have only so much game time we can waste on rulings etc... before we continue on. Along as it isn't crucial to a players well being of course.
DFoster 10-03-06, 09:05 PM	Technically "Magic Aura" (from the SRD also known as Nystal's Mystic Aura a level 1 spell) or a modified version of it if your DM is strict on the item part of the spell could hide the aura of the polymorph spell on the dragon from detect magic.
LiamDeclan 10-05-06, 10:09 AM	Okay, I have spoken with my DM about the rules on seeing the aura of the polymorph spell. I have also told him the limitations on the polymorph spell and its small duration time. He is now going to use something more permanent than a wand to carry about this charade of the 1/2 elf. He mentioned the dragon would have an amulet or ring or some such now that would allow him to shapechange into a 1/2 elf. I told him I thought that was still pretty powerful for a juevenile dragon to have. I also said that I didn't know if shapechange would allow him to have all the dragon abilities while in his new form as well. Thats all moot because he is going to have all the abilities anyway because the item will let him. So I told him the item would probably be worth tons of cash, so in order to lower the value of it he is going with in order for it to work, you must be within a certain range of an elf or 1/2 elf for the transformation to take effect. The effect happens without consent.
TJMHPH 10-05-06, 06:32 PM	have your dm pick up a copy of dragon magic. this book should give him all the help he will need and for its cost is well worth it in my opinion.