Post/Author/DateTime	Post
avatarolt 12-14-03, 01:57 PM	Party will consist of: 13th level Psion (with whichever skill set is the thief-like skill set -- sorry to the psionics-lovers who I butcher with my lack of knowledge) [correction: 2 PsiWar/11 Psi, beg pardon] 13th level Wizard/MotAO (10/3) 12th level Bard 12th level Druid (hey, that's me!) It's interesting in that our Bard does a decent job of buffing, both myself and the Bard are healers (and can maintain most of the "face" action for the party) -- we've got most of the "classic" support roles covered. With wildshape, I'm now seeing a lot more time as the "tank" as I previously did. Having someone dedicated to personally buffing me might not be a bad idea. Our Psion has most of the classic thief stuff taken care of (knocks doors, searches for traps in an excellent manner, etc.) The Wizard *is* just a blaster, and we obviously have no cleric. Oh, might also mention that the Druid (hey, that's me!) is taking Leadership primarily to gain followers to help propagate the Druid's plant of choice throughout the world. Likely it will progress into a small cult-following of a plant supplying a large quantity of it for neighboring cities and whatnot.
ninjarabbit 12-14-03, 02:57 PM	I can see a ranger as a good choice for both rping and functionally.
avatarolt 12-14-03, 04:31 PM	With no offense intended whatsoever, to do what? The bard has the archery angle pretty well covered, and the last thing we need is another sucker in the rear ranks. The Druid can track while wildshaped as a wolf. Am I missing something?
Displaced-Hinn 12-14-03, 05:50 PM	well if your looking for a upfront secondary tank but still wish to be party leader ( meaning you may not want to fight everything trown your way all the time so you dont get twisted by those 100 baby bugbears with sharp sticks waiting around the bend ) may i suggest a Barbarian ( half-orc, dwarf, or human) variety. they make excelent party enforcers and you can't deny the power of rage. also they are limited to light and medium armor so they can wear chainmail or half plate as well as any other leather armor. I hope you find a good character for the party sounds like a cool game.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 12-14-03, 07:12 PM	Originally posted by avatarolt With no offense intended whatsoever, to do what? The bard has the archery angle pretty well covered, and the last thing we need is another sucker in the rear ranks. The Druid can track while wildshaped as a wolf. Am I missing something? Because a Ranger can fight. Free TWF.
ninjarabbit 12-14-03, 10:14 PM	No offense taken, just that your party could use another warrior. A ranger could use two weapon fighting and/or archery, could be sneaky with your psion, cast low levels spells, and a ranger would be most likely candidate to follow a druid around. Other ideas could be a nature cleric, barbarian, or even another druid.
BW0222 12-14-03, 11:40 PM	Unless your Cha is extremely high, with the -2 penalty on leadership for your animal companion, you are looking for something like a 7th or 8th level cohort. Taking a tank fighter is kind of useless, at 12th-level the stuff you are going up against won't have too much problems going through a 8th-level fighter or barbarian. Personally, I find typically cohorts don't work out well at higher level campaigns. In a 6th-level campaign, a 4th-level PC might be able to fill-in missing gaps -- a super-knowledgable wizard, a cleric to heal, a thief to open locks, etc. If you have already reached 12th+, your party has already managed strategies to cover all the bases. So, at this point, taking a cohort typically just slows combat down without hugely measurable effects. Being 4 levels or so behind the party power-curve in combat can often just lead you to having to spend more time watching your cohort and their effects on combat might not be that great. As a role-playing tool, a cohort can be helpful. As a druid, maybe a ranger or druid to take care of your animal companion, a woodland-based cleric, or perhaps a ranger or barbarian to look after your grove.
avatarolt 12-14-03, 11:48 PM	I have an extremely high Cha. Figure on a 9th level cohort for a 12th level member.
the_heart 12-15-03, 07:29 AM	if you are happy all the 'classic' roles are filled adequately, then it just comes down to fun and whimsy. 1) keep it simple. fighter/ranger melee support. 2) buffer/healer to free up those roles in the party. 3) druid/acolyte just because it is RP appropriate. 4) something completely different: monster ally, unusual class combo, something you always wanted to try but thought was worm food. 5) anything i missed after you've narrow down what you want, then we can help more.
Kyaran 12-15-03, 04:12 PM	Get a cleric. One with some Crafting feats. :D A properly built cleric can tank pretty decently, they have a reasonable range of buff spells, and you can always use more healing. And on to the crafting... wands really won't help all that much since you have all arcane casters, but any wondrous items or weapons can be had for cheaper. And between the 4 casters you'd have, you can meet the preqs for any item I can think of. :)
danielinthewolvesden 12-15-03, 07:19 PM	The Druid doesn't need a front-line fighter- that's what his Polar bear (or whatever) Animal companion is for. For you, Oh Druid- don't take that feat, don't get a Cohort. if you do- you'll be running three figures on the board- Cohort, companion & yourself. Too many, and thus unfair to the other players- you're sucking too much "me time". Now, sure- your Druid can & should still get NPC's to follow your roleplaying goal- but you don't need a "cohort" and a feat for that. You should be able to get NPC's that aren't played as "characters', just interacted with at your "shrine" or whatever. However, that being said- the Party can use a Healer. Note caps- "Healer" as in the Healer base class from the Mini handbook.
Winsome 12-16-03, 11:01 AM	If you're looking for followers to plant seeds then just hire a few farmers when you stop at a town or village. No point in burning a feat just to have a man with a wheelbarrow follow you around throwing seeds into the hedgerows.
Findail 12-16-03, 12:43 PM	The party is somewhat light on basic hitting power. Your animal companion can fight, but can't wear heavy armour and protective devices like a Fighter can. Nor can it use a Spiked Chain for tripping, disarming, reach, and Attacks of Opportunity. You don't have a Rogue (or similar sneak-attacker) either. If there's any chance that the campaign might go Epic, then a Rogue makes a good basis for a Guardian Paramount: arguably the best PrC for a cohort, with abilities dedicated to keeping your PC alive (and even bringing your PC back from the dead, though obviously a Cleric can do that more easily). More fighting members can help "hold the line": stopping the bad guys from dicing the spellcasters.
avatarolt 12-16-03, 07:21 PM	Sorry, the leadership feat stays. I know I don't *need* a group of followers to plant crops, but I *need* a group of followers willing to worship the crop in question. Any more details and I'm gonna get kicked over to "mature" topics -- suffice to say that the crop is a central component to the Druid's character and even his reasonings for adventuring. I *have* questioned whether or not the cohort needs to come along -- the time constraints of the Druid + companion + cohort in battle *does* have me worried, especially combined with SNA. It admittedly places me as more interested in "buffer" types, as most of the casters tend to use up their spells slots through blaster spells. I'm considering setting up a Cleric of Chauntea (fits in quite nicely with the "this crop must be sewn" theme), but I have to admit to not being happy at all with the options for domains. I was keeping my fingers crossed that we'd pick up Trickery & Protection as domains, but I ask too much, I suppose. The character *can* have an Oriental background though, so if anyone knows of some OA domains that are nature based yet do-not-suck, it would be helpful (don't need stats, just need to know one is out there -- I'll go buy the book). But I really need an NPC with some incentive to: 1) Follow a rather aloof druid around (yes, I know it's a penalty) 2) Support said Druid in the "Johnny Appleseed"-ing the crop Those are two *major* considerations.
danielinthewolvesden 12-16-03, 08:06 PM	It's still selfish. Have you polled your fellow players? I know I wouldn't want to play with another player running 3/7ths of the figures on the board. As a DM, I flat wouldn't allow it. Unfair to the other players. You can still get your "group of followers willing to wroship the crop in question" through recruiting NPCs. No "special cohort" needed.
avatarolt 12-16-03, 08:28 PM	I just polled my roommate (second time). Quoth the roommate: "It isn't running multiple characters that's the problem. You run anywhere between 3-5 as it stands with a single casting of SNA and you do pretty well. Most of the time, it takes you longer to figure out which animal you're going to use in a situation while you go through your box." (referring to a recipe box -- I have two -- in which I keep SRD copies of all of the animal types) Which quickly degenerated into a discussion of how I could thin out my organizational method for the animals as there's only a dozen (maybe a dozen + a half) that come in handy. I'm also thinking of alphabetical 3x5 index card tabs for the monster box. But I digress. Considering that I *do* handle somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-6 game pieces at one time (assuming, of course, that I only get one casting of SNA off -- if I've regressed to SNAing though, it's probably because I'm about to dump a couple more onto the field), I don't think one more piece will be that heavy a combat consideration. I've come up with a number of stupid ways to deal with the problem (number one being those recipe boxes, number two being shade-specific dice laid out according to each NPC I'm controlling on the board). Our combats tend to also run somewhat slowly due to our mild bouts of intoxication -- despite having that many pieces, I'm typically not the hang-up. Unless the mild bout turns to a major bout, and then it's my own fault (and highly unlikely that the other players are noticing at that point). But to answer your question: yes, I've polled the other players (we have a similiar thread brewing on our campaign-specific board about the cohort I'm going to take). Their concern wasn't game time, but whether or not the cohort would be sucking their exp. :) If you're lucky, the DM might even pop in to tell you what a super-swell guy I am. :)
the_heart 12-17-03, 04:46 AM	if you're running that many 'game pieces' i would keep it really simple, and play a brute tank fighter with the basic premise of if it moves, hit it; if it doesn't move, hit it; if it doesn't fall over it's probably a wall... it will reduce the time you need to spend on tactical decisions. and as pointed out, you are a bit low on tanks. i would not play another spell caster. they tend to be the most time-intensive characters already, trying to run two would be not good IMO.
danielinthewolvesden 12-17-03, 12:40 PM	Very well, then. Take a Healer form the Mini handbook. She(?) can be a preistess of a nature goddess also, and her main job would be as "medic", freeing you and the Bard to do more combat casting and other fun stuff.
Xavier X 12-17-03, 01:04 PM	At first I was thinking tank... ranger, fighter, or barbarian, the latter probably the best in terms of abilitiy to defend you, while keeping it fairly simple and somewhat roleplayable. Then I figured as a druid you can be a pretty good tank yourself and with some support a very good one. To that end I would recommend a cleric who specializes in buff and heal spells. This also has the added benefit of being useful to the whole party. I suppose it really depends on what you want your character's combat role to be.
Schmendrick 12-17-03, 03:42 PM	Cleric of Obad-hai, with the Plant domain and maybe Earth or Water (or whatever makes more sense for this plant cult business), and item crafting for a bonus. What's the existing party cleric like? Edit, because I don't like double posting: You might consider letting the DM, or even another player control the cohort; he's really an NPC and is like your animal companion in that he isn't technically under your direct control anyway. It certainly adds flavor...
Kyaran 12-17-03, 04:37 PM	Originally posted by Schmendrick You might consider letting the DM, or even another player control the cohort; he's really an NPC and is like your animal companion in that he isn't technically under your direct control anyway. It certainly adds flavor... Actually, followers are the NPCs, and cohorts are player controlled. And just like your animal companion, you get to decide what actions they take. If you're gonna give up control, just get followers, but I recommend the cohort. Followers don't level. :D
Schmendrick 12-17-03, 05:33 PM	Originally posted by Kyaran Actually, followers are the NPCs, and cohorts are player controlled. And just like your animal companion, you get to decide what actions they take. If you're gonna give up control, just get followers, but I recommend the cohort. Followers don't level. :D I thought the point of having tricks and the like was that the DM handled animal companions. Granted, I know a lot of games just have the player controlling them, because it simplifies things, ("Fang, attack that one!"), but I always thought that DM control was the default. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I'm still making the suggestion that you do that with the cohort; it might make game-time more even (though you've already said your group doesn't mind)
avatarolt 12-17-03, 06:37 PM	The method we use to deal with the situation: The DM handles roleplaying considerations (why the character does what he does, how the character reacts to surrounding situations, etc) and the PC handles combat considerations. In the instance of animal companions, if the animal does something "not animal like" (i.e., goes straight for the spellcaster instead of the first thing it sees without a command), the DM gently rebukes the action. However, since pushing an animal companion is a free action, it really doesn't become a problem unless we're discussing SNA -- and if I need Nature's Allies to bust on something other than the front line, I'd rather burn a speak w/animals real quickly...but I digress. I'm also starting to think that either our combat goes a *lot* slower than everyone elses' or (and I'd be surprised at this) a *lot* faster. We have yet to have a problem with multiple pieces on the field. We have no existing party cleric -- that's why I think it'll end up being the best choice. I'm also considering Chantea (FR, but possibly can exist in the campaign's pantheon) because it would give both the plant domain and the protection domain. I think I've got the elemental end of things pretty much covered. I'd *much* rather have plant + trickery though...that way he *could* theoretically be just a buffer and stay hidden off to the side. I also forgot to mention that the Psion doubles as our tank, although I'm helping shoulder the burden somewhat now with wildshape and all the various goodies and doo-dads you can throw onto that noise. Another damage soak would be *nice* but not necessary. At the risk of sounding too much like CharOpt, we're wondering whether or not 2 levels of monk would be a decent dip -- it fits thematically (the Druid has retained the crop from the East, has ties in the East, etc)...and the Wis bonus to AC would help his survival chances, being two levels lower than the rest of the party. The evasion is useful too. I know that it's sacreligious to dip into something that doesn't give you caster levels typically, but would it matter with a buffer? Hehehe. Thinking Mnk2/Cle8 of Chantea...someone sent from the far east as a farmer-priest ...even fits thematically with the crop workers taking up arms in the fields. I dunno though.
Schmendrick 12-17-03, 09:16 PM	Originally posted by avatarolt Hehehe. Thinking Mnk2/Cle8 of Chantea...someone sent from the far east as a farmer-priest ...even fits thematically with the crop workers taking up arms in the fields. I dunno though. Seems you've got a decent story justification for it, whatever else. There are benefits to either one, really. I'd take whichever one "felt" better thematically. Though I can't say I know much about FR.
Kyaran 12-18-03, 03:16 AM	Originally posted by Schmendrick I thought the point of having tricks and the like was that the DM handled animal companions. Granted, I know a lot of games just have the player controlling them, because it simplifies things, ("Fang, attack that one!"), but I always thought that DM control was the default. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I'm still making the suggestion that you do that with the cohort; it might make game-time more even (though you've already said your group doesn't mind) Animal companions are DM controlled. :) They're just really friendly with the PC, and hence can be asked nicely to do things. OTOH, familiars are not DM controlled. Followers and cohorts work the same way, only without the use of a summon cohort spell. ;) ————————————————————————————————— OK, back to the real topic... Sticking a couple levels of Monk in that build is one option, and a reasonable one at that. And now the defense's closing remarks: The main 'problem' with multiclassing is that you never get really, truly good at just one thing (PrCs being another matter entirely). A full Cleric 10 would give you 5th level spells. That includes nifty things like mass CLW/ILW, flame strike, righteous might, slay living (OOOooo...), and the all-important raise dead. Also, the Monk Wis bonus to AC is only gonna be about +4 to +6 max, and disallows armor. A Cleric 10 can strap on Full Plate +2 (for 5,500gp) and get +10, or even a mithril chain shirt +1 (for 2,100gp) and get +5 with no move penalty or loss of Dex bonus (over +6 :rolleyes: ). My 2 coppers. And that'll buy you a loaf of bread, nowadays. ;)
McDerth 12-18-03, 03:44 AM	If you really wanted to be different, you could always go the route of getting a plant creature as a cohort. Make an intersting site going around with a shambling mound or such taking orders.