Post/Author/DateTime	Post
smallfishnova 07-29-06, 04:25 AM	I have just started a game with a dm. It's a game of 5 lv 1 character - paladin, fighter, cleric, ranger and me... While the game is mostly core-only, i have discussed with my dm to let me take the celestial heritage feats and give me 1 spell known at each spell level as we both agree sorcerer need more at low level. Therefore, i come up with 5 0-level and 3+1 level 1 spell knwon. But in the game, it's seems to be a bit shamed.... for knowledge...i just has knowledge acrane and cleric also has while ranger have nature knowledge...also..they have a higher int than my character. Besides, sorcerer seems has not useful skill to get information... In combat, all 4 character go into melee... while i cannot avoid hitting them with colour spray unless i provoke a AO from the enemies...so, i can just only shoot with MM, they go melee so that my crossbow become......(also, the boss has min. SR 14...(i roll a 12..), well... though he can be beaten by us...i can't even touch him with my spell...) In normal scene, the paladin can keep detect evil while i can just detect magic when something special found. For the last game (that's the first game), my only contribution to the party is only by my Raven familiar since it can be a messenger and scout... Actually, this is my first time to play a level 1 character. I usually play at least lv 3 character, at that time...i think i can cast defensively with a little chance of fail the check... but at level 1... it even become more dangerous if i fail the check..i provoke an AO and fall... Here is my spell knwon list: Lv 0: ghost sound, read magic, detect magic, prestidigitation and mage hand. Lv 1: colour spray, magic missile, silent image, (protection from evil) str 8 dex 18 con 14 int 12 wis 10 cha 18... (actually quite good...) feat: celestial sorcerer heritage, celestial sorcerer aura Is it i choose wrong spells? or just that i have not effectively played my character? Please give me some advice... Thx.
sedai 07-29-06, 05:35 AM	well first off, i'm not a THAT experienced player, and i have no idea how experienced you are, so some of my advice may seem a bit "duh, i figured that out months ago" for you... 1: feats; isn't there combat casting in the phb as a feat, which makes you not provoke an atack of opertunity, always, no check involved? 2: first time as sorcerer? sorcerers become more powererfull as they level up... (most classes do, i know, but thats not what i mean) some might dissagree, but sorcerers (and wizards) grow quicker in power then say.. fighters, or palladins. so youll be the hero of the day in the latter levels.. 3 unless your dm likes to surround your party all the time, make sure you are always walking safe at the back, or if you travel in a cart, save inside the cart... try to avoid mellee combat. cuz sorcerers with their 1d4 hd aren't ment for it. at all. 4 by spells: well.. you didn't choose any offensive lvl-0 spells... which means that when your magic missile runs out, you don't have any real offensive cababilities sorcerers are mainly damage dealers.... but you can play a sorcerer any way you want. i would have taken mage armor instead of silent image though.. silent image can come in handy... but you can cast mage armor not only on yourself, but you can buff your allies with it too. every morning i had allies standing at my tent, waiting for me to wake up, just so i could cast mage armor on them for the day (its 1 hour/level duration spell, and i was 7th level by that time) and the +4 ac could really help if you are having trouble with getting hit. youd have a ac of 18 or so.... :D 5 further i hope someone who knows more tips comes along and helps you. good luck!
Merestil Haye 07-29-06, 05:46 AM	I have just started a game with a dm. It's a game of 5 lv 1 character - paladin, fighter, cleric, ranger and me... While the game is mostly core-only, i have discussed with my dm to let me take the celestial heritage feats and give me 1 spell known at each spell level as we both agree sorcerer need more at low level. Therefore, i come up with 5 0-level and 3+1 level 1 spell knwon. But in the game, it's seems to be a bit shamed.... for knowledge...i just has knowledge acrane and cleric also has while ranger have nature knowledge...also..they have a higher int than my character. Besides, sorcerer seems has not useful skill to get information...That's a problem with a class that is instinct-oriented. Put some points into Gather Information. It's cross-class but Charisma-based, so your natural gifts will help out somewhat. In combat, all 4 character go into melee... while i cannot avoid hitting them with colour spray unless i provoke a AO from the enemies...so, i can just only shoot with MM, they go melee so that my crossbow become......(also, the boss has min. SR 14...(i roll a 12..), well... though he can be beaten by us...i can't even touch him with my spell...)1st level is early to face SR. On the other hand, you had to roll 13+ to affect him. It looks as if you just had hard luck there. And you tried. Remember that SR is checked per spell, not for the whole encounter. In normal scene, the paladin can keep detect evil while i can just detect magic when something special found. For the last game (that's the first game), my only contribution to the party is only by my Raven familiar since it can be a messenger and scout... Actually, this is my first time to play a level 1 character. I usually play at least lv 3 character, at that time...i think i can cast defensively with a little chance of fail the check... but at level 1... it even become more dangerous if i fail the check..i provoke an AO and fall...Read the Concentration skill again. If you choose to cast defensively, you do not provoke an AoO. You might fail to cast the spell, but you will not attract an AoO if you fail the concentration check. Here is my spell knwon list: Lv 0: ghost sound, read magic, detect magic, prestidigitation and mage hand. Lv 1: colour spray, magic missile, silent image, (protection from evil)If the DM will let you change this list, replace Magic Missile withg Sleep. Sleep is a useful offensive spell at very low levels. It starts to lose effectiveness around 4th level. When you get a chance to change a 1st level spell at 6th level, swap Sleep back for Magic Missile, which now develops a three-dart punch. Or Identify, since you should be getting magic treasure by now. str 8 dex 18 con 14 int 12 wis 10 cha 18... (actually quite good...) feat: celestial sorcerer heritage, celestial sorcerer aura Is it i choose wrong spells? or just that i have not effectively played my character? Please give me some advice... Thx.It looks like a mix of things to me. Hope the ideas help a little.
Radijs 07-29-06, 05:49 AM	Combat casting gets you a +4 on concentration checks while casting defensively. It doesn't take the AOO away without a skill check. You need some more damage spells in your repetoire and you need mage armor. Dump silent image & protection from evil. Replace them with mage armor and lesser orb of acid/frost/fire/sound... pick one. And yea sorcerors are weak at level 1-5. Hide behind your fighter and wait for the day you reach level 6. Then show them the full fury of your arcane might.
smallfishnova 07-29-06, 06:41 AM	I understand i am quite low-power in the game, but will become powerful later... 1. actually the feats are for flavor reasons, though i think the aura may help the party a bit. 2. actually i roll a very poor stat. -3 modifer...so, my dm just give many points for me to add at 1 to 1 basis...in total, i have less modifers than others. My DM also say that he hopes he won't kill anyone, therefore most of us has max. out dex or con... 3. actually, i think the boss is lv 5 at least since i colour spray his familiar and it only stunned for 1 round.... 4. my DM really focus on role-play, so bluff, gather infomration, diplomacy, initmidate and the like will be role-played and the DC is set according to the speech if needed. So, i don't think ranks is needed.. since most of the time he even not makes a check. 5. I know sleep is useful... but i really do not have anything vs undead / construct...so, i take MM as the only direct attack spell against it. 6. Yes. I remember the cast defensively wrongly. But i still do not want to stand next to the enemy and has the spell failed which he can drop me in 1 hit... 7. protection from evil is actually from the feat...actually, i think mage armor is better than this for me. Moreover, i can't dump this until lv 4 i think. Actually, it is better to cast this spell for my party member since all of them have light armor. Besides, i think no spells outside Core is allowed. 8. Actually, i want to ask which cross-skill is worth taking. Is it i should rely on my crossbow instead of spell?
SoldierOfFortune187 07-29-06, 11:28 AM	Precise Shot feat. Good for crossbows, rays, orbs, or anything else you feel like tossing in the general direction of your teammates in melee. Combat Casting has already been mentioned. Max out Concentration and Spellcraft and cast defensively all the time. Spell selection has already been addressed. Don't be afraid to pick up a longspear and (with reach) poke and prod enemies in melee with your team to set up flanking for your teammates (and yourself). Your differences for attack rolls are not nearly as skewed at first level as they will be later on, so provide support there while you still can.
Rancorous_Fool 07-29-06, 11:49 AM	I have to disagree with the spell selection changes proposed above. I agree that magic missile is not a good first level choice. But, I will defend silent image. Silent image is one of the most versatile spells, limited literally by your own creativity. As a sorceror, who needs to get the most mileage from their spells, i would always keep one of the images. Yes, the orb's hurt undead and constructs. Whoopidee doo. Silent image isn't mind affecting. Undead and constructs have poor Will Saves. Silent Image wins. Oh, my advice. Sit back, use a long spear when you need to. Assist the fighter, etc. Flanking and an aid another from you can really help a fighter deal some damage. Your DM will wokr with you so no worries there. Remember: Wear monk robes or padded leather armor. Looking like a spell caster is just baiting enemies.
utilitarian 07-29-06, 12:22 PM	It's a tough ride for the scorcerer to 2nd level spells (when you can start dishing out some serious damage with Scorching Ray.\ I would likely have taken some more disruption style spells like Grease or Sleep to put some of your enemies out of commision, or Enlarge Person or Magic Weapon to help out your allies. That said, you have an AWESOME dex score, why aren't you using a Crossbow? With a light crossbow and +4 dex mod you ought to be a handy little sniper. Maybe pick up Reduce Person for the extra + to hit. Also don't count out Summon Monster I. He might not seem that impressive, but an enraged Celestial Badger can kick some serious goblin ass.
Venenum 07-29-06, 12:24 PM	Undead and constructs have poor Will Saves. Since when do undead have bad will saves, the non mindless ones will saves are better than a rouge or a fighter. They have a good will save progression. Also you probably wont encounter constructs till later un you are playing ebberrron, and magic missle has spell resistance so half the core constructs are immune to it.
Radijs 07-29-06, 12:55 PM	Since when do undead have bad will saves, the non mindless ones will saves are better than a rouge or a fighter. They have a good will save progression. Also you probably wont encounter constructs till later un you are playing ebberrron, and magic missle has spell resistance so half the core constructs are immune to it. Everyone has better will saves then makeup. Sorry I couldn't resist.
utilitarian 07-29-06, 01:27 PM	rouge/rogue comments are always justified.
Kradlo 07-29-06, 02:24 PM	If your GM allows it, swapping magic missile for sleep is a good choice. You can affect up to 4 hit dice of creatures with it at 100 ft + 10 ft per level in a 10-ft radius burst. That's really handy at low levels. Magic Missile will deal 1d4+1 damage, which is not better than your light crossbow. Stay out of melee. Keep moving if you have to, but don't let the enemy close on you. Use that extraordinarily high Dex to accurately shoot the baddies with your crossbow. If the enemy does get close to you, use your Celestial Sorcerer Aura to mess up their morale and call for help from your buddies. At later levels the Celestial Sorcerer Lance can be a real killer, since it will only affect evil creatures. You can freely fire it into melee and not worry about your friends, unless they're evil. If your friends are evil, shoot 'em anyway. That's what they get for being evil. :P
smallfishnova 07-30-06, 12:08 AM	Thx for your advices... but from the story stand-point...it is not good to change magic missile in to sleep. My DM say we would encounter monster with a few hit-dice but low CR..though it is not my character knowledge... Actually, i think colour spray and sleep do the same thing at low-level, but colour spray affect multiple and have a shorter casting time while sleep have a longer range...it is also a shame if my party member already go into melee and they like to surround it for flank bonus... (they usually have lower hit dice than the monster...my DM tends to throw out enemy with much HP but low AC and attack..that means high hit dice..they also have crappy will save...) The reason i don't take grease is because it only has 1 round duration at this level...For, enlarge person..my party cleric like to prepare it...(strength domain..). Magic weapon is a nice buff at this level though. Thoguh magic missile ignore any cover and penalty when shooting into melee and a medium range is good for me to keep away and deal dmg.. Maybe i would ask my dm to exchange MM for magic weapon...
sanities_eclipse 07-30-06, 10:04 AM	If you are going to be using a crossbow alot, I would suggest looking at rapid reload for a future feat if it sparks your interest. It is a good feat, but only if you think you are going to be using the crossbow enough to justify the choice.
kelvinaw273 07-30-06, 10:54 AM	Well, things to bear in mind: 1) Sorcerer's and Wizards are low powered at low level. Live with it. 2) Your spell choices are OK - you need to fire off your colour spray as the enemy closes and then fall back and let the Tanks do their stuff. 3) Skills wise, welcome to the world of s****y skills, you have a low base and no great Int score to make up for it. In all honesty, you could have swapped your Int and Dex to make a more useful character, or if you used point-buy, taken a load of points off Dex and ramped them into Int. As it is, you could take a level of rogue or bard at the first chance you get and be good at it. 4) Your role - become the 'Party Face' if you can, as well as the artillery.
taradusis 07-30-06, 11:44 AM	Why not multiclass as a rogue,you can backstab,flank ,handle traps,pick pockets,get more skill points,negotiate better prices in town,find black markets...and have 50% more HP?
Tytalus 08-03-06, 01:47 AM	Why not multiclass as a rogue,you can backstab,flank ,handle traps,pick pockets,get more skill points,negotiate better prices in town,find black markets...and have 50% more HP? Diluting caster levels as a primary caster is Not A Good Idea. Your main asset are your spells, and waiting even longer for the next spell level will make you rue the day you chose to multiclass. The only exception here is if you are heading for the Arcane Trickster PrC, but even then prepare yourself for a lot of pain (up to mid-levels you'll be seriously behind the power curve). Also, on average a rogue is only getting 40% more HP than a sorcerer.
taradusis 08-03-06, 05:21 PM	the OP seemed to be complaining about a lack of things to contribute to his party.His party lacks thieving skills and he has a dex of 18...my advice isn't great but not a bad choice all things considered?
InterSilva 08-03-06, 06:05 PM	Use that crossbow. Your dex is great. Aside from that, Sorcerers are really weak at low levels. They're my favorite 20-level class, but they are just weak until higher levels (I don't use Fireball, Lightning, or Scorching Ray. It's just a matter of principle for me). Losing caster levels always sucks, but if you're human, see if your DM will allow the Human Paragon PrC from Unearthed Arcana. You lose one caster level, and over three levels you get a ton of skill points, +2 to any attribute (probably Charisma for you), a bonus feat, and a nice boost to your BAB, plus you can make one skill a class skill for every single class you ever take. Human Paragon is my favorite class ever.
Kujo der Zahn 08-03-06, 06:08 PM	If you decide to go the multi-class route, look into the Practiced Spellcaster feat from CA. While technically not core, at least it's official WotC; and you'll not fall quite as far behind the power curve.
smallfishnova 08-04-06, 12:38 AM	So, i continue my game last night and are lv up to lv 2. I take 2nd Lv SOR. WoW, my DM say i am very strange to carry a longspear into an underground temple (he said that it is strange to carry such a long and noticeable thing when travelling...) So, i would have to change it, any opinion? Second, our party cleric seems a bit upset. Since he can't not role-play like a cleric, he would like to change into another class under the DM approval... i think he would change into a bard or a rogue. He says he is interested to play a character which get information from his knowledge, and at lv 2 bard even get cure spell. Though bard require him to talk a lot...so any advice for him? He is quite new to the game. As i remember, he just tries D&D 3 times...and all are 1-day short mission or campaign. With such a change, is it better not to multi-class at lv 3? And at lv 3, i will get a new lv 1 spell known. Is grease good at lv 3, provided me i don't have any spell that cause fires (burning hand...) or i take magic weapon here? About last day, i somehow make use my spell to help my party member to get more information. As i predicted, we face 11 small construct spider last day, and i get a fall at round 2. Though my DM says the construct will retreat after 3 turns, never AO, with a low attack bonus and AC and Saves, and will carry fallen construct to retreat... It just a shame for me since colour spray is no use. As i haven't try MM, i don't know they have SR or not. Actually will fight on a 25ft wide stone bridge and about 80ft long, as being, we are already surrounded by the construct... 1 thing is that DM say construct will not attack us if we don't attack them, when someone get a higher init. than a construct... (since i have init. 21 ...so) Is it better for me to hide at the back of my party member first without attacking them? Actually, construct can still attack me or bush rush me to fall from the bridge if i stand at the back of my party member... It seems my DM really don't like combat a lot, 1 combat for each day only. Which spells will be useful when i hit lv 4? Alter self, invisible, spider climb etc...
InterSilva 08-04-06, 03:27 PM	It's odd that your DM tells you so much about events before they play out, unless that's based on some sort of knowledge check. Also, unless you're not a native English speaker, you should consider revising your posts more carefully, they're a chore to read. A few thoughts: Magic Missile bypasses Spell Resistance. Grease is a great choice for a spell. Just because your DM thinks it's strange to carry a longspear doesn't mean you can't, although I'd be inclined to advise against it as well. My personal favorite sorcerer weapon is the simple Spear. 20 foot range, x3 critical, d8 damage, and can be set against a charge. They're cheap, so I always carry three.
taradusis 08-04-06, 05:34 PM	One random encounter a day is not unusual,if it's truly random.Consider carrying a staff,can strike with both ends?Rogue is a good choice for someone in your party,with your dexterity you'd be a good choice.Consider carrying a loaded crossbow as well.Random thoughts.
Barsona 08-04-06, 10:07 PM	if you are going to support your melee characters, do some spells which support your friends, such as heal spells, stat boosting spells, hinderence spells, and etc. but then again, that is just me...