Help! My DM gave a player a broken ability! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help! My DM gave a player a broken ability! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wonton2006
05-09-06, 04:21 PM My DM handed out everyone a free ability. They're kind of like surgical implants. The rogue picked one that permanently boosts Dex by 2, the druid one that boosts Str by 2 (don't ask), the Sorcerer a crappy one that gives him a +5 to speed, and the fighter...

An ability that pretty much grants him Fast Healing 2 - he heals 2 hp per round.
He's healing pretty well in combat, and he can pretty much do an infinite number of encounters per day. Just wait for a few minutes, and all the damage's gone. I think this is extremely cheap to have at level 6. What do you say?
RogerWilco
05-09-06, 04:25 PM It might be a little better as the other options, I would have only allowed +1, but it will get less powerful the higher level he gets. Once he has 200 hp and is facing things that do 100-200hp/round, the +2 hp will not make a big difference. It makes the biggest difference for the healer/cleric in the party as the fighter will need less healing, leaving mor spells for other tasks.
EyeontheMountain
05-09-06, 05:08 PM Your DM is probably going to regretthat, and probably pretty soon. Fast healing is very powerful, as it allows the fighter to be at full strength every fight, all day long. Your party will be able to explore faster, and hit harder. Plus if you can retreat only a minute or two, as you said, the fighter will be back up to full power.

Yes, it is too strong, one reason I always banned the Feral Template from sAvge Species.
King_Bulba
05-09-06, 05:59 PM I dont think its TOOO strong. It stronger than the others though.

I would be happy because you will be able to do more and thus get more treasure! Guess it doesnt bother me because I tend to be utility classes and am used to underpreforming in combat.
Toran_A_Sunder
05-09-06, 06:18 PM I think its slightly more powerful, but your DM may take it into consideration and give you more challenging battles, which means more XP. Besides, like someone else said, give it a handful oflevels and it reallywont be that big a deal.
thenightlords
05-09-06, 06:23 PM He will regret that pretty soon. I (as DM) let a player have fast healing and after two games I see that it should be a pretty high level adj if at all. I won't let it happen again.
Wonton2006
05-09-06, 06:26 PM Yeah. It's already pretty useless in actual combat, as creatures deal about 30 per round in combat. But the main problem is the fact that after a certain amount of time, he's back up to full. This guy could keep going forever, as long as he had 5 minute breaks in-between fights (not to mention that the guy got REALLY, and I mean REALLY lucky with his hit dice. He got 56 on 6d10. An average of 9.33 each time he rolls, so, because of 15 constitution, he has 68 hit points).
tiercel
05-09-06, 07:49 PM Fast healing, as has been pointed out, is very, very strong.

It's not huge in combat, but it's not nothing (if nothing else, you automatically stabilize as your fast healing kicks in if you get knocked into unconsciousness).

After combat, though, it's huge -- you can be at 1 hp and in a matter of a few moments be fine without your cleric having to blow plenty of spells or charges off wands.

Much of the time, the majority of healing that takes place is after combat anyway. Having fast healing almost completely obviates the need for such healing.

(It is what makes the vigor line of spells from Complete Divine so good... at caster level 1, you can cast cure light wounds for d8+1 healing instantly, or you can cast lesser vigor and get 11 hp back over the next minute or so. With this line of spells, the wand of cure light wounds instantly went obsolete as your backup out-of-combat source of healing.)
Gargs454
05-09-06, 09:39 PM The fighter will always be ready to go in a matter of just minutes, but depending on how well your DM runs his encounters, the rest of the party may not be. A wizard for instance may not be all that anxious to jump into a battle with no spells. Ability damage on a rogue might make it more difficult for him to be effective (or ability damage on the fighter for that matter).

All in all, the fighter did definitely get a better ability than the rest of you, but it will also likely help out everyone almost as equally since it will have a much bigger impact between combat than during. With the fighter never needing out of combat heals, there will be that many more to go around for the rest of the group. As such though I would anticipate more challenging encounters from the DM.
Archangel62
05-10-06, 12:22 AM Hmm... your DM provided the party silthiar grafts, that's one of the best grafts available IMO excepting possibly the restarting heart option. His mistake was actually this, what the fighter got was cheaper than what the Druid or Rogue got.
StruckingFuggle
05-10-06, 12:48 AM Hmm... your DM provided the party silthiar grafts, that's one of the best grafts available IMO excepting possibly the restarting heart option. His mistake was actually this, what the fighter got was cheaper than what the Druid or Rogue got.

Hmmm. Where might one find those grafts?
Shinryouga
05-10-06, 01:28 AM The grafts are in Lords of Madness, from odd little fey/aberration chaotic good floating forest starfish/barnacle/swarm of flesh shuriken thingies, the Silithar. (Seriously, thats what they are.)

NOTE: With some creatures (mostly undead and constructs which have no con scores) fast healing shuts off at 0. I don't know if this is the case with the silithar graft, but it might be a way of balancing the power. Important thing to know, both as Player and DM.

Just me two coppers.
Archangel62
05-10-06, 01:32 AM yup, they stop working once the body does, no undead or anything like that. I'd like to add that a monk built at 20th level with those grafts can be a mean little SOB. The grafts from the Silthiar are the coolest but they're also horrendously expensive. But that being said the ability to have these abilities in an antimagic field ups survival profiles something fierce.
Wonton2006
05-10-06, 07:34 AM Yup. You got it.

By the way, I know what you mean. Silthilar Heart was up for grabs, and the sorcerer considered taking it. Insted he took Extended Legs (interestingly enough, the sorcerer died on the same adventure soon after).
Priest_of_Shaundakul
05-10-06, 08:32 AM Ha, what'd he do, get shot in the back running away from combat? :D
Ut-Napishtim
05-10-06, 08:47 AM Do these things have an LA or GP cost? It seems to me like pursuing those kinds of "upgrades" should be an adventure in and of itself - not something simply handed out by the DM on a whim. I don't really know since I don't have the book, but after reading this I'm certainly not eager to buy it. The abilities aren't that bad I guess in and of themselves, but it should really be something the PC's would at least have to do a quest or something to get IMHO.
:twocents:
Turin
05-10-06, 11:21 AM Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't see this as a bad thing from a perspective of looking at the game as a whole. You're just getting to the level where fighters start to weaken in relation to the rest of the party. Your wizard and cleric will start to have Phenominal Cosmic PowerTM in just a few levels, and your fighter will become increasingly dependent on them. This is just one way to start cutting into that dependency.

The fighter will be hella-tough, able to withstand battle after battle after battle. This is a good thing! This is the fighter's real "best ability" anyway, so why not let him get a little more of it? This frees up the cleric to do more interesting things with his magic than healing, and it gives the party wizard more incentive to use magic like haste instead of fireball, increasing the amount of teamwork in the game. Which can only be a good thing, in my opinion.
Bruunwald
05-10-06, 01:12 PM I notice you're the same player whose DM gives too much gold. I see a pattern evolving here.

How new is your DM? And how old? I ask because all of this reminds me of when we were kids, first starting out. I was a very generous DM because the thrill of being able to have these things, even in an imaginary world, was new and wonderful.

In time, I realized that moderation was key for a challenging game. Gift giving is hard to resist for some new DMs, but restraint is necessary to keep the game fun and interesting.

Have a talk with him. Ask him if he is having any trouble challenging you guys, and if so, let him know you are willing to give up your extra gold and special powers to play a more straight-ahead, "core" game. But remember to be nice about it, and thank him for his efforts. Obviously, he is a generous guy, and deserves to be acknowledged for trying to give you guys some fun stuff. He just needs a little nudge towards center.
Archangel62
05-10-06, 11:00 PM Do these things have an LA or GP cost? It seems to me like pursuing those kinds of "upgrades" should be an adventure in and of itself - not something simply handed out by the DM on a whim. I don't really know since I don't have the book, but after reading this I'm certainly not eager to buy it. The abilities aren't that bad I guess in and of themselves, but it should really be something the PC's would at least have to do a quest or something to get IMHO.
:twocents:

GP cost minimum 90,000
Stat upgrades are at 110,000
Fast healing graft actually 189,000

Also need to find someone who can do silthiar grafts, one of my old characters could.
Wonton2006
05-10-06, 11:36 PM I notice you're the same player whose DM gives too much gold. I see a pattern evolving here.

Ooooooh! Very very good. You figured something out: My DM's a newbie.
You're a smart one.
Dragonsblood
05-11-06, 01:00 AM Why don't you try DMing? Even if it's just a one shot session. Back when I was RPing in high school (we played L5R), my friend who always likes GMing made a lot of newbie mistakes also. I was one of the players, so I had a different perspective and could notice his mistakes and shortcomings. I volunteered to GM a game and did a pretty good job, but it was tough. And ya know what? We both learned a lot from the process - he instantly became a better GM and is getting better every session, and I improved as a player by being more patient and appriciating the GM/DM's job more.
Ut-Napishtim
05-11-06, 09:52 AM GP cost minimum 90,000
Stat upgrades are at 110,000
Fast healing graft actually 189,000

Also need to find someone who can do silthiar grafts, one of my old characters could.

Yeah, those are some pretty beefy requirements that could normally only be pursued by characters with some pretty significant levels. Thanks for the info, dude.
:ayyyy!:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wonton2006 05-09-06, 04:21 PM	My DM handed out everyone a free ability. They're kind of like surgical implants. The rogue picked one that permanently boosts Dex by 2, the druid one that boosts Str by 2 (don't ask), the Sorcerer a crappy one that gives him a +5 to speed, and the fighter... An ability that pretty much grants him Fast Healing 2 - he heals 2 hp per round. He's healing pretty well in combat, and he can pretty much do an infinite number of encounters per day. Just wait for a few minutes, and all the damage's gone. I think this is extremely cheap to have at level 6. What do you say?
RogerWilco 05-09-06, 04:25 PM	It might be a little better as the other options, I would have only allowed +1, but it will get less powerful the higher level he gets. Once he has 200 hp and is facing things that do 100-200hp/round, the +2 hp will not make a big difference. It makes the biggest difference for the healer/cleric in the party as the fighter will need less healing, leaving mor spells for other tasks.
EyeontheMountain 05-09-06, 05:08 PM	Your DM is probably going to regretthat, and probably pretty soon. Fast healing is very powerful, as it allows the fighter to be at full strength every fight, all day long. Your party will be able to explore faster, and hit harder. Plus if you can retreat only a minute or two, as you said, the fighter will be back up to full power. Yes, it is too strong, one reason I always banned the Feral Template from sAvge Species.
King_Bulba 05-09-06, 05:59 PM	I dont think its TOOO strong. It stronger than the others though. I would be happy because you will be able to do more and thus get more treasure! Guess it doesnt bother me because I tend to be utility classes and am used to underpreforming in combat.
Toran_A_Sunder 05-09-06, 06:18 PM	I think its slightly more powerful, but your DM may take it into consideration and give you more challenging battles, which means more XP. Besides, like someone else said, give it a handful oflevels and it reallywont be that big a deal.
thenightlords 05-09-06, 06:23 PM	He will regret that pretty soon. I (as DM) let a player have fast healing and after two games I see that it should be a pretty high level adj if at all. I won't let it happen again.
Wonton2006 05-09-06, 06:26 PM	Yeah. It's already pretty useless in actual combat, as creatures deal about 30 per round in combat. But the main problem is the fact that after a certain amount of time, he's back up to full. This guy could keep going forever, as long as he had 5 minute breaks in-between fights (not to mention that the guy got REALLY, and I mean REALLY lucky with his hit dice. He got 56 on 6d10. An average of 9.33 each time he rolls, so, because of 15 constitution, he has 68 hit points).
tiercel 05-09-06, 07:49 PM	Fast healing, as has been pointed out, is very, very strong. It's not huge in combat, but it's not nothing (if nothing else, you automatically stabilize as your fast healing kicks in if you get knocked into unconsciousness). After combat, though, it's huge -- you can be at 1 hp and in a matter of a few moments be fine without your cleric having to blow plenty of spells or charges off wands. Much of the time, the majority of healing that takes place is after combat anyway. Having fast healing almost completely obviates the need for such healing. (It is what makes the vigor line of spells from Complete Divine so good... at caster level 1, you can cast cure light wounds for d8+1 healing instantly, or you can cast lesser vigor and get 11 hp back over the next minute or so. With this line of spells, the wand of cure light wounds instantly went obsolete as your backup out-of-combat source of healing.)
Gargs454 05-09-06, 09:39 PM	The fighter will always be ready to go in a matter of just minutes, but depending on how well your DM runs his encounters, the rest of the party may not be. A wizard for instance may not be all that anxious to jump into a battle with no spells. Ability damage on a rogue might make it more difficult for him to be effective (or ability damage on the fighter for that matter). All in all, the fighter did definitely get a better ability than the rest of you, but it will also likely help out everyone almost as equally since it will have a much bigger impact between combat than during. With the fighter never needing out of combat heals, there will be that many more to go around for the rest of the group. As such though I would anticipate more challenging encounters from the DM.
Archangel62 05-10-06, 12:22 AM	Hmm... your DM provided the party silthiar grafts, that's one of the best grafts available IMO excepting possibly the restarting heart option. His mistake was actually this, what the fighter got was cheaper than what the Druid or Rogue got.
StruckingFuggle 05-10-06, 12:48 AM	Hmm... your DM provided the party silthiar grafts, that's one of the best grafts available IMO excepting possibly the restarting heart option. His mistake was actually this, what the fighter got was cheaper than what the Druid or Rogue got. Hmmm. Where might one find those grafts?
Shinryouga 05-10-06, 01:28 AM	The grafts are in Lords of Madness, from odd little fey/aberration chaotic good floating forest starfish/barnacle/swarm of flesh shuriken thingies, the Silithar. (Seriously, thats what they are.) NOTE: With some creatures (mostly undead and constructs which have no con scores) fast healing shuts off at 0. I don't know if this is the case with the silithar graft, but it might be a way of balancing the power. Important thing to know, both as Player and DM. Just me two coppers.
Archangel62 05-10-06, 01:32 AM	yup, they stop working once the body does, no undead or anything like that. I'd like to add that a monk built at 20th level with those grafts can be a mean little SOB. The grafts from the Silthiar are the coolest but they're also horrendously expensive. But that being said the ability to have these abilities in an antimagic field ups survival profiles something fierce.
Wonton2006 05-10-06, 07:34 AM	Yup. You got it. By the way, I know what you mean. Silthilar Heart was up for grabs, and the sorcerer considered taking it. Insted he took Extended Legs (interestingly enough, the sorcerer died on the same adventure soon after).
Priest_of_Shaundakul 05-10-06, 08:32 AM	Ha, what'd he do, get shot in the back running away from combat? :D
Ut-Napishtim 05-10-06, 08:47 AM	Do these things have an LA or GP cost? It seems to me like pursuing those kinds of "upgrades" should be an adventure in and of itself - not something simply handed out by the DM on a whim. I don't really know since I don't have the book, but after reading this I'm certainly not eager to buy it. The abilities aren't that bad I guess in and of themselves, but it should really be something the PC's would at least have to do a quest or something to get IMHO. :twocents:
Turin 05-10-06, 11:21 AM	Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't see this as a bad thing from a perspective of looking at the game as a whole. You're just getting to the level where fighters start to weaken in relation to the rest of the party. Your wizard and cleric will start to have Phenominal Cosmic PowerTM in just a few levels, and your fighter will become increasingly dependent on them. This is just one way to start cutting into that dependency. The fighter will be hella-tough, able to withstand battle after battle after battle. This is a good thing! This is the fighter's real "best ability" anyway, so why not let him get a little more of it? This frees up the cleric to do more interesting things with his magic than healing, and it gives the party wizard more incentive to use magic like haste instead of fireball, increasing the amount of teamwork in the game. Which can only be a good thing, in my opinion.
Bruunwald 05-10-06, 01:12 PM	I notice you're the same player whose DM gives too much gold. I see a pattern evolving here. How new is your DM? And how old? I ask because all of this reminds me of when we were kids, first starting out. I was a very generous DM because the thrill of being able to have these things, even in an imaginary world, was new and wonderful. In time, I realized that moderation was key for a challenging game. Gift giving is hard to resist for some new DMs, but restraint is necessary to keep the game fun and interesting. Have a talk with him. Ask him if he is having any trouble challenging you guys, and if so, let him know you are willing to give up your extra gold and special powers to play a more straight-ahead, "core" game. But remember to be nice about it, and thank him for his efforts. Obviously, he is a generous guy, and deserves to be acknowledged for trying to give you guys some fun stuff. He just needs a little nudge towards center.
Archangel62 05-10-06, 11:00 PM	Do these things have an LA or GP cost? It seems to me like pursuing those kinds of "upgrades" should be an adventure in and of itself - not something simply handed out by the DM on a whim. I don't really know since I don't have the book, but after reading this I'm certainly not eager to buy it. The abilities aren't that bad I guess in and of themselves, but it should really be something the PC's would at least have to do a quest or something to get IMHO. :twocents: GP cost minimum 90,000 Stat upgrades are at 110,000 Fast healing graft actually 189,000 Also need to find someone who can do silthiar grafts, one of my old characters could.
Wonton2006 05-10-06, 11:36 PM	I notice you're the same player whose DM gives too much gold. I see a pattern evolving here. Ooooooh! Very very good. You figured something out: My DM's a newbie. You're a smart one.
Dragonsblood 05-11-06, 01:00 AM	Why don't you try DMing? Even if it's just a one shot session. Back when I was RPing in high school (we played L5R), my friend who always likes GMing made a lot of newbie mistakes also. I was one of the players, so I had a different perspective and could notice his mistakes and shortcomings. I volunteered to GM a game and did a pretty good job, but it was tough. And ya know what? We both learned a lot from the process - he instantly became a better GM and is getting better every session, and I improved as a player by being more patient and appriciating the GM/DM's job more.
Ut-Napishtim 05-11-06, 09:52 AM	GP cost minimum 90,000 Stat upgrades are at 110,000 Fast healing graft actually 189,000 Also need to find someone who can do silthiar grafts, one of my old characters could. Yeah, those are some pretty beefy requirements that could normally only be pursued by characters with some pretty significant levels. Thanks for the info, dude. :ayyyy!: