Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Akisa 12-13-06, 03:06 PM	This is my first D&D game and we started at lvl 3 and now we're lvl 6 (we started two month ago). Originally I wanted to play paladin however my Dungeon Master warned against this and told me to play as cleric saying it would be much easier even though it looks more complex to me. The dungeon master helped me make my character and even created two feats for my character called “divine meta magic extend spell” and “divine meta magic persistent spell” Since we already have another cleric in the group I used my magical abilities to improve my physical abilities. However the dungeon master begins to think my character is over powered how do I convince him it’s not?
Puca 12-13-06, 03:17 PM	Please describe these two homebrewed feats. You may be too powerful. The fact that it is his fault you are too powerful doesnt change it. Also, you might elaborate on his reasoning: what is it that you are doing that leads him to believe this.
Fakespy 12-13-06, 03:21 PM	From the info you've given, I'd say you're being completely fair with the way you're playing. If you want to play as a buffer and not a blaster or a healer then keep doing what you're doing. Just show him the spells you're using and such. you should be fine if you just talk it out with him.
Akisa 12-13-06, 03:27 PM	Please describe these two homebrewed feats. You may be too powerful. The fact that it is his fault you are too powerful doesnt change it. Also, you might elaborate on his reasoning: what is it that you are doing that leads him to believe this. I can use my turn undead attempts to lower the level of a spell when doing meta magic. I can't find it in the hand book unless it's listed somewhere else in the book. "Divine meta magic extend spell" doubles the length of spell using one turn undead attempt and "divine meta magic persistent spell" uses up to six turn undead attempts to lower spell level.
Grod_The_Giant 12-13-06, 03:27 PM	sounds like the build was entirely his idea...tell him that (but politly)
Fatalis_902 12-13-06, 03:35 PM	Aise from possible complications due to the home-brew feats, you really can't. You're a cleric, and cleric's are really powerful. All you can do is explain exactly what you're doing, and hope he realises that you don't mean to be overpowered, you're just playing the game.
Puca 12-13-06, 03:40 PM	I can use my turn undead attempts to lower the level of a spell when doing meta magic. I can't find it in the hand book unless it's listed somewhere else in the book. "Divine meta magic extend spell" doubles the length of spell using one turn undead attempt and "divine meta magic persistent spell" uses up to six turn undead attempts to lower spell level. OK, well Divine Metamagic is a published feat in Complete Divine. For this to work as written, youd need 4 total feats, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (extend) and Divine Metamagic (persistent). You could have all of those at level 6, but your number of turning attempts (Maybe 6/day?) will seriously limit the number of times you can pull this off. You said in your initial post that your DM “created two feats for my character.” Are these homebrewed versions of Divine Metamagic, ones that maybe make it easier to use? Or ignore some prereqs? You should know that Divine Metamagic with Persistent Spell is popularly regarded as overpowered. I personally dont think it is that bad, but, if your DM has let you slide on the prereqs, or maybe reduced the number of turning attempts you need to use, then you probably are overpowered. You should see first if he will let you go to the published versions of the feats (including the errata.) If that doesnt work, or if you are already using those published versions, then discuss an alternate build – if he isnt happy now, he is only going to be less so as you apply Persistent Spell to more and more powerful buffs.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 12-13-06, 03:50 PM	This is making my brain hurt. Unless your DM is David Noonan, he did not 'make' those feats, as they are in the Complete Devine. How devine metamagic works is you take the feat "Devine metamagic", and choose a meta magic feat. In this case extend spell, PHB, and persistant spell, Complete Arcane. Now instead of increasint he casting time to when applying thoughs feats to spells, instead you use an amount of turning attempts equal to the the amount of levels the respective feat in creases the spell by. Example, Timmy the cleric has Devin meta magic Persistant spell. So instead of casting Bulls strength as a 8th level spell, with persent spell on it, he can choose instead to cast it as a 2nd and use up 6 of his dailly turn undead attempts. There is an errata on devine meta magic however. It states that you have to have the normally meta magic feat, before you may take the devine metamagic version. So in order for you to have devine meta magic persistant, and devine meta magic extend spell, you must also have persistant, and extend spell. This is possible for a human 6th level cleric, however it would comsume all of your 4 feats. Also becuase, as cleric you only get 3+ chramisma modifier in turn attemptrs, i suspect that that you can only make something persistant 1/day. Your DM is probally right though, you do sound powerful. And I suspect that that there may be a problem with RAW. Either way it does seem to be the DMs error in this case, and not yours. Either way though, I recomend making a new character, or finding a way to tone this one down abit.
DarkNick 12-13-06, 05:46 PM	Obviously you like your charcter. You either don't think it is too powerful, or you like the fact he is powerful and don't want him to change. It sounds like your DM made a mistake and regrets it. The question I ask you is are you powerful compared to the other characters? Are you willing to throw your DM a bone and help him fix his mistake? If your DM thinks you are too powerful, even if it is not true, then it would be in your best interests to work with him to get a solution that meets both your needs. If the DM is not happy then you are not going to be happy with what a DM can do to you. Remember that no matter how tough you think you are, the DM can simply throw something far bigger. There are no rules to say he can't, and even if there was, a DM is free to ignore them as they like. The Dm is not trying to short change you. Instead he wants to make sure all the players are fairly balanced so that everyone has an equal opportunity to have a good time. Maybe you could simply swap out those feats he gave you with more standard feats? Chat to your DM about his reasons, ask what you can do to make it better in the DMs eyes. It could simply be that you are not taking account of all the limitations of those feats. Make sure you are clear on the rules and things might naturaly be toned down.
Akisa 12-14-06, 08:42 AM	Oh I thought they were homebrewed feats because he didn't open any books and yeah I used all my feats for the divine metamagic feats. What feats I should swap out with? I only have players hand book.
Yokomohoyo 12-15-06, 03:04 AM	How I see it is that your DM made your character. He built it on a power gamming structure and is now regretting it. This is simple; just talk to him/her amd tell him/her that you are ok with making a new character if her/she wishes it. If the DM insists on you making a new character just build a big dumb brute (aka barbarian) wich are quite simple to play. You could even jokenly make him with max jum and tumble and make him like the barbarian in diablo 2 with leap attack hehehehe
itwasntme 12-15-06, 03:15 AM	How I see it is that your DM made your character. He built it on a power gamming structure and is now regretting it. This is simple; just talk to him/her amd tell him/her that you are ok with making a new character if her/she wishes it. If the DM insists on you making a new character just build a big dumb brute (aka barbarian) wich are quite simple to play. You could even jokenly make him with max jum and tumble and make him like the barbarian in diablo 2 with leap attack hehehehe I remeber when that kicked Arsh ... i havnt played that game in a LONG time tho ... HUHG *Misses all the attacks the nme sent his way and flys 10 screens off to the nme they run off 10 screens away you land hit them and do massive damage and do it all over again*
Far_Traveler 12-15-06, 08:41 PM	Actually you must pay turn attempts equal to modified level +1, Extend is 2 attempts and peristant is 7