Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zaknafein43608 03-13-06, 02:51 PM	I was ondering what to do here. My character was a half-elf wizard, but now he is a vampire spawn. What can I do to continue playing him? My DM likes to travel alot in his campaigns and being a vampire is kinda going to put a damper on my doing anything constructive without being within 9 miles of where I live (to keep from being insinerated by the sun). Unless there is a way around the sun killing him? Might there be any magic items or spells to protect him from the sun or to allow him to be a "day-walker"? :weep:
Rivelstraz 03-13-06, 03:06 PM	Put your coffin into one of those magical bags and check Magic of Faerun for that spell that lets you walk with sunlight for a limited time. Or just make a new character, I think vampire spawns can only advance as 'monster', not player class.
Dag 03-13-06, 03:40 PM	If your DM lets you keep playing your character as a vampire spawn he is an idiot. The character is now a monster, an NPC to be run by the DM enthralled to the vampire who spawned her or, if said vampire is no more, than a creature of the night out to prey on others - not a player character. If I were a player and a DM allowed another player to keep running a vampire character I'd roll my eyes and leave the game, it's a stupid way to buff the hell out of a character and is only an advantage and a blessing if the DM allows it, which means every player should be lining up at Vampire Joe's house to get turned into a spawn, because it will make their character kick *ss and they'll still get to play it, or else you can turn the rest of the party into vampire spawn and have a whole campaign devoted to cheesy vampire powered characters. If that's what the DM wanted from the start he should have started the game that way or let everyone know. To turn your character's slaying and rebirth as a sinister undead into a powerful blessing for her is just a pile of cheese whizz too thick to be waded through. I'd say favoritism is the least of the adjectives to describe this sort of thing if the DM allows it
Zombayz1 03-13-06, 04:08 PM	OK, Dag read LM. Vampire Spawn are playable, have a monster class to pay for the fact that a Vamp Spawn is ECL8, and they are Undead which makes them more easily ass-raped by anything that requires a fort save that they are not immune to. If I can play a ****in' Mohrg than this dude can play a vamp spawn. Ok, back to the point. Get out of Wizard and go rogue/ranger. If the vampire that made you into a spawn has not been destoyed yet than start rolling up a new character. Avoid disintegrate spells at all costs!
Dag 03-13-06, 04:28 PM	Sure it can be played and is playable. but it's rather pathetic for a DM to allow it, especially in an ongoing campaign where the rest of the players aren't walking around with ECL 8 tabs on their existing character levels. How obscene and stupid is that? But yes Zombay it can be played...But so can alot of monsters now adays and I'd still say a DM who allows a character so twisted to keep adventuring with a party full of more normal races is foolish. She's a monster now, she's a vampire now. Cut her out of the party and make her an NPC as is proper and realistic...Of course people like Zombay and the original poster's eyes light up when they see all the cool abilities the vamp spawn will add to their characters and argue that of course a DM should allow a player to be a working player character and party member while being a vampire spawn, but any DM with an ounce of common sense disregards this nonsense and tells the player to get working on that new character.
Feor 03-13-06, 06:18 PM	Dag, if you read the original post it's fairly obvious that the DM isn't giving this too him just to buff him, otherwise he wouldn't be on here asking for ways to get around the disadvantages of it. Perhaps you could give the benefit of the doubt to people and assume the DM knows what he's doing. That having been said, it's an interesting RP challenge. Putting your coffin in a bag of holdng's not a bad idea until you get reduced to 0 hit points, automatically assume gaseous form, and can't get your coffin out of the bag. Old-Skool is probably your best bet here. (Bram Stoker Old-Skool) Take your coffin and a bunch of the dirt it's buried in, and put them in a wagon. Build yourself (or have someone else build you) a golem to drive/protect it. The Flesh Golem seems like the best fit, Dracula and Frankenstein in Cahoots, though the Iron Golem is obviously the most powerful. There's also... I think it's Libris Mortis though I'm sure I've seen it in other books, the Gravedirt Golem, in which case you couldprotect your coffin with the dirt it's buried in. :)
Doopliss 03-13-06, 06:44 PM	Sure it can be played and is playable. but it's rather pathetic for a DM to allow it, especially in an ongoing campaign where the rest of the players aren't walking around with ECL 8 tabs on their existing character levels.First, it's half that ECL. You're thinking full-fledged vampire. Second, and it's been said before, there's a vampire spawn monster class. (Which goes up to level 8, but I digress.) As for your question, you said you were a Wizard, right? Not ideal, but you get plenty of illusion magic, which is critical for any undead. If your party travells by horse-drawn carriage or the like than you can just stay in your coffin/in a spot where you won't be killed. For those parts where you need to go outside in the sun, there are spells for that. Also, try to snack on at-least one person for every few villages you go to, if you have spare HD, (Or your party's HD, see below) it's important for an undead to have friends willing (Well, willing/forced. Weird undead mentality) to shelter him if he needs to hide. (Assuming they don't enslave the entire village, which is usually better. If you think they stand a chance at doing this, try to make a well-levelled (But still one you feel comfortable fighting) cleric the one you enslave. One less in his way of domination.) On a similar note, be sure to enslave any high-level NPCs who you're in a position to. It's good to have someone ready to give you shelter if needed. (Assuming they don't take over the entire town or something, which is usually even better.) You're completely obliged to obey the orders of whatever killed you, so try to keep your options open. (Assuming it's still animate.) Your dominating gaze is a godsend against low-level NPCs, so use it wisely. Oh yeah, watch out for clerics. :P You're now evil, right? If so, or even if not, consider starting by taking out your fellow party members in their sleep. If your HD isn't high enough to take them all out, kill one, get him to kill the next, etc. Takes longer, but it's kind of needed. A party can only contain, but not be made up of, undead for so long before a schism forms, so remember you're doing it for the good of the party. I normally oppose PvP, but in cases like this it only makes sense. (And they're just asking for it if they were thick enough to bury you in the first place. On a side-note if you weren't buried, it means your character never became a vampire spawn. Feel free to call your DM out on this one.) Once that's out of the way you all have the same impairments (And advantages, where flying and the like is required. No more worrying about slowing your party down in the sun. :) ) which helps party-togetherness and makes you less of a liability on quests. You can also order around the other party members, but that should be a non-issue most of the time. Actually, I'm a bit worried about my current character being turned into undead himself. The DM's already stated we'll keep playing if it happens, and he has no trouble adjusting campaign power on the fly. We also play a particularly difficult undead-heavy campaign, (You can see why I'm worried. ;) ) so let me know how it works out if you do try any of this. :)
Ameture Expert 03-13-06, 08:09 PM	Okay, if your a good guy at heart try to preserve that. I know it's not the same but I have an elf who got turned into a werewolf. First I talked with my DM about it, DM's know all sorts of stuff especially about campeigns thay run. Now, my DM let me take ranks in control shape and eventually I mastered my new set of challenges, and I can have him turn beasty whenever I want to (only once a day, but that has been enough so far). Now what was once just an elf fighter is now an elf fighter/barbarian/ranger who can handle just about anything in a rage... I just kinda wish those wolves would stop following him around. Here are some pointers that are more relevent to you. -Pigs are the most closely related to humans of all farm animals. Try to drink that out of a goblet or something unless you want vampire pigs running around. -You don't have to kill fellow party members, and thay are probably your best deffence. I'd trust friends over mind slaves anyday. -An all concealing cloak should keep the sun off your back, and a good hood on said cloak should help keep your head. This will probable help in hiding the fact your a vamp from the locals, your gonna want to hide that from the locals. -Try to be proud of it once you have compleat control, it works great on intimidation checks. -Don't be afraid to switch classes to compensate for your new status. -Those sun walker spells, keep an eye out for them. I wish I could share some with you, but I don't think I have any in any of my books. -Oh yeah, if you havn't already try to see if your DM has any ideas.
Doopliss 03-13-06, 09:20 PM	Okay, if your a good guy at heart try to preserve that. I know it's not the same but I have an elf who got turned into a werewolf. Getting lucky with Will saves, or houserule? :) -Pigs are the most closely related to humans of all farm animals. Try to drink that out of a goblet or something unless you want vampire pigs running around.As cool as that would be, enslave only affects Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids... -You don't have to kill fellow party members, and thay are probably your best deffence. I'd trust friends over mind slaves anyday.Things change a bit when you're undead. Keep in mind, a forced Evil alignment can hurt even your closest friendships. They're not really Mind Slaves, either. It's not like Dominate spells, they'll stick with you until you die (So to speak) no save. Finally, undead by nature find unlife preferable so they would have no reason to be angry with you even if not for the enslave rules. Nothing's more reliable. Finally, this way helps keep the party together. During the day, everyone can hunker down instead of being so slowed down by the vampire spawn and come night time, they can spend the whole time sprinting as Dire Wolves due to undead traits. Assaulting a castle, they can all fly over the rooftops and walls instead of making vampy go ahead and open a path. Also, you can enslave more people. Trust me, it's better this way. :) -An all concealing cloak should keep the sun off your back, and a good hood on said cloak should help keep your head. This will probable help in hiding the fact your a vamp from the locals, your gonna want to hide that from the locals. Though I highly doubt a cloak would stop sun damage, (If so, cool. I just doubt a DM would allow it.) it would come in handy when visiting civilized areas. :) It might be better to have one party member carry each coffin in a bag of holding (Or, if you have a carriage or cart, put them there) and let him pop one out whenever someone reaches 0 HP. 2 hours should be plenty of time to get it out. I suppose you could also have one person keep vampy in a bag of holding of you're really against killing party members, (Even though they probably won't care.) but it's still much slower than Direwolf sprinting by night. :) If you didn't guess, I find a party of vampires much more easilly managable than one in a living party.
Callista 03-13-06, 09:31 PM	Vampire spawn? Ouch--not only are you undead *and* evil now; you're bound by the will of whoever turned you into a vampire! And, purely in terms of power, you have a huge LA now weighing you down--you're going to gain only a fraction of the XP your party's getting for a long, long time. So here's my suggestion: Raise money for a Resurrection spell. Get a cleric who's willing to cast it for you. Jump into the nearest patch of sunshine. Get resurrected. Problem solved. Trust me, the level lost through resurrection will be gained back much more easily than you could make up for that LA you'd have to carry forever... As for the RP of it, just go angsty and basically hate what you've become... all your limitations, the horrid thought of never, ever being able to really rest, the idea that you'll never see the beautiful sun again... Okay, yeah, it's sappy; but trust me, when whoever's now pulling your puppet strings attempts to stop you from jumping into the aforesaid patch of sunshine, that'll be just a bit more incentive for your party to help you put a stake through your heart! Kidding aside, this is a character-changing move, whatever you decide to do. But if it were me, I'd get rid of the "vampire spawn" template ASAP.
Doopliss 03-13-06, 10:01 PM	when whoever's now pulling your puppet strings attempts to stop you from jumping into the aforesaid patch of sunshine, that'll be just a bit more incentive for your party to help you put a stake through your heart! I could have sworn part of the vampire mentality change involved enjoying undeath, but I've pretty much forgotten most of what I've read in Libris Mortis. If not, what if your master stops you in the 'raising money' stage, or even when you start wanting to return to life? It makes you 'want' to carry out his will, and there's a mental link... Another reason to off the rest of your party would be, now that I think about it, to keep the LA even. That way, the DM can better scale encounters for the entire party. Yes, I'm in an 'all or nothing' mood as far as party undeath goes... :D Rememberr, killing PC's solves all your probleemmmmmmmmms. ...What?
Feor 03-13-06, 11:03 PM	I imagine if you went to a Cleric, told him this story about a "friend" whose suffered a horrible fate, and then begged him to help you, he'd be more than willing to try and help you come back to life. Either through the death & ressurection method, or even just a basic miracle.
Trance Kuja 03-13-06, 11:51 PM	Ok, I see alot of you people making suggestions that are only relevant to true vampires, not spawn. He can't make spawn at all so killing things and gaining minions is not an issue for his DM. According to the rules in LM, if a chr with levels gets turned into one of the undead that they have classes for, he loses one chr lvl and gains the first lvl of the monster class. He then has to take the rest of the levels (in this case 7 more levels of Vampire Spawn). This way he won't gain some of the more powerful abilities such as gaseous form, fast healing, and dominate till higher levels. As for his alignment, according to both Savage Species and Libris Mortis when dealing with free willed undead spawn, at the DM's discretion he may revert to his orignal alignment. Now personally I would see his new lifestyle to somewhat affect his perception of the world so that maybe if he was a good chr, instead of making him back into good, you can make him neutral in order to represent his darker view of the world. As for dealing with sunlight, there are numerous ways to deal with this, deeper darkness is a low lvl, long duration darkness spell that could aid in overland travel, the down side is its succeptability to dispelling by both dispel and other light spells. To help counteract this, take the feat in Libris Mortis that allows you to spend 1+cha consecutive rounds before being affected by the sun. This will give you time enough to cast darkness or get underneath something in order to avoid the sunlight and also to reset your number of rounds you can remain in sunlight. I believe there is also a spell in Lords of Darkness that allows you to function fine in sunlight and has a duration of 1 hr/ cl so it can keep you safe and isn't obvious like a darkness spell. It seems you and your DM are willing to work together to make this and interesting chr, who can function well as a PC without being imbalanced with the party. If you come to the CO boards and post your current build and and some of your chr concept, I am sure I and some of the regulars on the board can help you build something effective, yet playable for a chr in your situation.
Doopliss 03-14-06, 12:25 AM	I could've sworn spawn could create spawn... Curse you, SRD! Well, that makes pretty much everything I said moot. Sorry...
nyysjan 03-14-06, 08:45 AM	and remember that you do not need to drink blood. You might want it, you probably crave it, you might go bat sh*t crazy over it, but there is nothing in the Monster Manual about you needing it.
wonlee76 03-14-06, 10:19 AM	I was ondering what to do here. My character was a half-elf wizard, but now he is a vampire spawn. What can I do to continue playing him? My DM likes to travel alot in his campaigns and being a vampire is kinda going to put a damper on my doing anything constructive without being within 9 miles of where I live (to keep from being insinerated by the sun). Unless there is a way around the sun killing him? Might there be any magic items or spells to protect him from the sun or to allow him to be a "day-walker"? :weep: Not sure what level you are but if you're a vampire and find the penalties to be too much of a nuisance to deal with, why not get ressed/true ressed? I think one of those spells can fix you back to being a normal half-elf. If you're stuck on being a vampire spawn for whatever reason, travel at night to play it safe. Any magical item or spell you might have that might grant you temporary protection or permanent protection from sunlight can be dispelled or suppressed by a dead magic zone or some such and you become toast. Short of an emergency, I would go walking around during daylight exposing myself to a potential save or die situation where a dispel magic is all that's needed.
Zaknafein43608 03-14-06, 10:25 AM	Ok, I see alot of you people making suggestions that are only relevant to true vampires, not spawn. He can't make spawn at all so killing things and gaining minions is not an issue for his DM. According to the rules in LM, if a chr with levels gets turned into one of the undead that they have classes for, he loses one chr lvl and gains the first lvl of the monster class. He then has to take the rest of the levels (in this case 7 more levels of Vampire Spawn). This way he won't gain some of the more powerful abilities such as gaseous form, fast healing, and dominate till higher levels. As for his alignment, according to both Savage Species and Libris Mortis when dealing with free willed undead spawn, at the DM's discretion he may revert to his orignal alignment. Now personally I would see his new lifestyle to somewhat affect his perception of the world so that maybe if he was a good chr, instead of making him back into good, you can make him neutral in order to represent his darker view of the world. As for dealing with sunlight, there are numerous ways to deal with this, deeper darkness is a low lvl, long duration darkness spell that could aid in overland travel, the down side is its succeptability to dispelling by both dispel and other light spells. To help counteract this, take the feat in Libris Mortis that allows you to spend 1+cha consecutive rounds before being affected by the sun. This will give you time enough to cast darkness or get underneath something in order to avoid the sunlight and also to reset your number of rounds you can remain in sunlight. I believe there is also a spell in Lords of Darkness that allows you to function fine in sunlight and has a duration of 1 hr/ cl so it can keep you safe and isn't obvious like a darkness spell. It seems you and your DM are willing to work together to make this and interesting chr, who can function well as a PC without being imbalanced with the party. If you come to the CO boards and post your current build and and some of your chr concept, I am sure I and some of the regulars on the board can help you build something effective, yet playable for a chr in your situation. Thanks for all the GREAT ideas!! I'll check out those options and see what I can do to place my character on the CO board. I know alot of folks out there are thinking this is a crazy thing to try, but I love my character, and still want to play him, and since the vampire spawn is considered playable by LM rules, I want to try.
Trance Kuja 03-14-06, 11:11 AM	and remember that you do not need to drink blood. You might want it, you probably crave it, you might go bat sh*t crazy over it, but there is nothing in the Monster Manual about you needing it. Thats true of the Vampire Spawn in the MM. However, if his DM wants to give him more issues to deal with as a Vampire Spawn, he could go with the feeding rules listed in Libris Mortis. Vampires and Vampire Spawn are diet dependent on blood and have a craving for life essence, in game terms your half-elf would have to feed on at least 1 point of con each week or have to start making will saves to avoid going into a blood starved, uncontrolled frenzy. He isn't required to drain life essence with his energy drain, but in battle he may feel the urge to energy drain enemies instead of using another form of attack, its up to your DM to determine how strong this urge is and what game effect it may have. Also, after looking over the vampire spawn monster class I noticed a slight error in the stat boosts you gain as you level. The class gives you a total of +2 dex and +6 cha over the course of the levels, however the vampire spawn in the MM gets +4 dex and +4 cha. Simply get your DM to changes one of the cha boosts to a dex boost and the problem is solved.
Doopliss 03-14-06, 10:24 PM	If you really don't want to be ressurected, I'd still consider spiking your allies' water with potions of vampirism (Turn into a free-willed vampire/spawn as if killed by a true vampire's blood drain) for all the above reasons, possibly by passing secret notes to the DM or talking with him one-on-one before the game. Maybe now would be a good time to stop suggesting things, but consider it... ;) You should encourage questing by night whenever possible. Not only does it mean that many more enemies are asleep, (Usually) and you never know when a hasty escape is in order. Also, if travelling by day, you can hang out in any pocket dimension (Such as a bag of holding) indefinitely due to a lack of air-dependency. Dominating Gaze usually works on lower level types, and can be maintained for days. Good if you have some time before a mission and would like to keep a way in/out open. Gaseous Form can get you into pretty much anywhere, and get you past pretty much anything. Finally, put those bonus points in Bluff and Charisma to good work and find an alternate way around. Also pray your DM hasn't read Libris Mortis. :P Blood Drain would wake up a sleeping foe, so remember to do a nonlethal coup de grace first if you're really thirsty. I'd also imagine that B-Drain would satisfy life force requirements as well. You don't even need to finish him off if you don't want to raise an alarm.
runestar 03-15-06, 04:14 AM	Well, your ECL increases by 8, which really puts a damper in your wizard's goal. :( Its useless to try and catch up now.
Panqui 03-15-06, 07:18 AM	One of my fellow players is a vampire spawn in our tabletop game. We usually carry him around in a bag of holding if we need to travel during the day. That means he can't participate in outside battles during the daytime, but he makes up for this in how effective he is in all other battles. Also, the DM has allowed him to wear a ring of sustenance, making it unnecessary for him to drink blood to survive. I'm not sure if that's RAW, but it works for us. As for your future classes, well, if you started off at the first level of vampire spawn you have 7 more to go before you can take another class. So, you have a while to plan. But, definitely your spell-casting progression is going to be considerably stunted due to the loss of 8 spell-casting levels. I'd say either rogue, ranger or fighter. You gain abilities that would make you effective in these. Have fun with it. It can get tricky, but if your partymates are willing to work with you, it's all manageable.
Doopliss 03-15-06, 10:41 AM	But, definitely your spell-casting progression is going to be considerably stunted due to the loss of 8 spell-casting levels.Reading your post, I just realised something. If one was to add one of those '+1 spellcasting level' tack-ons (that you keep seeing in prestige classes) to a Monster Class, then... It's actually balanced for spellcasters, but not overpowered. The class makes sense. For the sake of normal monster classes, it could be retroactive. (EDIT: Okay, that's abusable. I suppose you'd lose the bonuses if you took a non-spellcasting class later.) Who knew a fix was so simple? :w00t: Can someone verify that this isn't too overpowered? I think I'm on to something here... (Assuming Wizards don't get new Spells Known, which only makes sense due to their nature of attaining spells)
wonlee76 03-15-06, 10:50 AM	Reading your post, I just realised something. If one was to add one of those '+1 spellcasting level' tack-ons (that you keep seeing in prestige classes) to a Monster Class, then... It's actually balanced for spellcasters, but not overpowered. The class makes sense. For the sake of normal monster classes, it could be retroactive. (EDIT: Okay, that's abusable. I suppose you'd lose the bonuses if you took a non-spellcasting class later.) Who knew a fix was so simple? :w00t: Can someone verify that this isn't too overpowered? I think I'm on to something here... (Assuming Wizards don't get new Spells Known, which only makes sense due to their nature of attaining spells) The problem with this idea is you're tacking on an additional ability to "monstrous" HD which normally a monster of that type would not get. Because its not a typical trait for monstrous HD, the LA of the monster should be increased. Part of the balancing act of determining the LA of a monster is looking at how much monstrous HD is tacked onto the whole package. Example: Minotaur is 6 HD and +2 LA. Strip the HD completely from the equation and its apparent +2 LA is not a fair LA for a minotaur for all the stat adjustments and stuff. Make the HD stronger in some way (class features, spellcasting boosts, etc.) and the LA should also increase in some manner since now the 6 HD on the minotaur is not as horrible as it once was.
Doopliss 03-15-06, 11:43 AM	The problem with this idea is you're tacking on an additional ability to "monstrous" HD which normally a monster of that type would not get. Because its not a typical trait for monstrous HD, the LA of the monster should be increased. Part of the balancing act of determining the LA of a monster is looking at how much monstrous HD is tacked onto the whole package. Then why not make it a typical trait for monstrous HD? :confused: Make the HD stronger in some way (class features, spellcasting boosts, etc.) and the LA should also increase in some manner since now the 6 HD on the minotaur is not as horrible as it once was.Except... It's not supposed to be horrible, is it? This would be a houserule to balance spellcasting monsters, so keeping it at equal horribility(Though that probably isn't a word) is somewhat irrelevant. It balances spellcasters and leaves the classes that are already balanced well enough alone. It's not a boost to spellcasting unless you take mostly spellcasting levels (The ability doesn't kick in unless over 50% of your levels are in a caster class. Not including the monster class in question, of course) in which case you're underpowered. Of course, I've never read Savage Species and may quite likely be missing something. All I've seen of Monster Classes is Libris Mortis.
danielinthewolvesden 03-15-06, 11:52 AM	Since you no longer have free will, the real question is what will your Vampire Master make you do? And thus, Dag is correct. Really, what your character should do is entirely out of your hands. You're now a NPC, roll another character. Even without the free will problems, a Vampire spawn Wizard is nigh unplayable. You'll be hugely behind the curve spell-wise, and the DM is making you 8 levels higher than the rest of the party (for a while, until they catch up, and unless the DM does it by the "level" system for monsters, in which case you'll still never be useful as a Wizard). Any challenges for the party will either be a complete walk through for you, or impossible. Any challenges for you will either be super simple for the party, or be an almost TPK- save for you.
Doopliss 03-15-06, 12:03 PM	Since you no longer have free will, the real question is what will your Vampire Master make you do? And thus, Dag is correct. Really, what your character should do is entirely out of your hands. You're now a NPC, roll another character. First-off, don't forget the likelyhood that they were fighting the Vampire, he took the wizard out with Energy Drain, then the other party members managed to finish him. (Then they idiotically buried said wizard. ;) ) Even if you're not free-willed, you only really need to obey your master's commands when he commands you. When he does give you a task, you'd place priority on completing that task over anything. And no matter how poorly he treats you, you're still forced to remain friendly, respectful, even affectionate towards him. (Not necessarily romantic affection) So, it could still work out great if he's only really used as a plot hook, provided he's a good sport about obeying his master. Any challenges for you will either be super simple for the party, or be an almost TPK- save for you.Which is why you need to Potion of Vampirism the rest of the party. It's the only way to keep the game going smoothly. :devil:
Panqui 03-15-06, 12:12 PM	You'll be hugely behind the curve spell-wise, and the DM is making you 8 levels higher than the rest of the party (for a while, until they catch up, and unless the DM does it by the "level" system for monsters, in which case you'll still never be useful as a Wizard). I believe the OP's character is using the "level" system, so he slowly gains abilities over levels. If that's the case, he'll never be out of step with the rest of the party. My post above was based on this assumption.
Doopliss 03-15-06, 12:23 PM	I believe the OP's character is using the "level" system, so he slowly gains abilities over levels. If that's the case, he'll never be out of step with the rest of the party. My post above was based on this assumption.Well, I suppose he'd be out of step in the way that his spellcasting abilities plummet, if that's the case... Also, I forgot: Assuming all they did was stake your master, you're kind of obliged to remove the stake (Thus returning him to unlife) before trying much else. Your party members wouldn't like it, but that's just the way the undead rules go... Nobody said undeath was all immortality and create spawn. ;)
Ashok_Lal 03-15-06, 09:17 PM	What about the rest of the party? You are dead you cant ask them to not finish you off just so you can play a vampire. We had a situation a few years ago where a charicter was killed by a vampire so we put a stake through rhe heart and choped of his head. Had the body concercrated then cremated without asking the player. So the choice should not even be yours to make!!!
Doopliss 03-15-06, 10:14 PM	We had a situation a few years ago where a charicter was killed by a vampire so we put a stake through rhe heart and choped of his head. Had the body concercrated then cremated without asking the player.I'll go out on a limb and assume he never actually had time to be fully vampired. If that's the case then you don't need to do nearly as much work to prevent it. Remember, you have to bury the victim. (Hence the coffin) If he was already undead, escape should have been relatively easy. (And I'm disgusted at the fact you killed (So to speak) an active PC without his consent.) If you were using the monster class then he could easilly escape due to a lack of fatigue. If not, between Gaseous Form and Dominating Gaze he could likely beat the rest of the party, much less escape. (Either way is a sure-fire method for turning into an NPC, but I digress) From the way it sounds, the character is already a spawn. I would also like to point out that, because he's survived (Again, so to speak) this long, it's quite unlikely that his party members will turn on him very soon. Finally, the question was for general tips, not whether she should get killed/ressurected or just play it.
Rhuell 03-16-06, 04:17 AM	Ok first of all if the vampire who slew you is still "alive" then your party must go kill him/her. Otherwise you are stuck as an NPC and do not possess any of your previous abilities save what is listed in the MM under Vampire Spawn. Now once your party kills your master then we we can talk. Go get yourself a copy of Savage Species and look towards the back of the book under "Emancipated Spawn". kick ***** book by the way It details how to play such a character. and while it's true that the MM doesn't say you need it, but I agree with nyysjan in saying that you DEFINITELY need to roleplay it. Your character is a blood-drinker plain and simple. If your character was good aligned I suggest watching Interview with the Vampire, specifically Louis when he tries to avoid drinking human blood and turns to rats and other creatures instead. -Rhuell
ShadowDragon8685 03-16-06, 05:41 AM	Also, and I'm probably gonna get flamed to heck for this, but you might turn to V:tM for some inspiration. Particularly the bits about energy draining people not being Evil (probably not Good, but not outright monstrous,) if you leave the people you take a sip from alive. That said, in battle, anything's fair game. Go for the bloodsuck kill if you want to. It's good too because you're kind of Grappled with the guy, so he's not going to be messing with the rest of your party while you're wrapped around him like a clamp biting his neck. (Just remember that you're also very vunerable right now, given that you're basically flatfooted towards any OTHER enemies.) Sadly, unless you can convince your DM to tweak the monstrous progression to give you spellcasting progression, your character's life as a Wizard is completely and totally over. LAs and Monstrous Hit dice and Primary Spellcasters don't mix at all. Depending on your alignment, barbarian, fighter, or even Monk would make a good choice, if your DM would let you rework the character as a total-death transformation. Other than that, your best bet is to get killed, then ressurected. And Ashok Lal, if you did that to my character, or another character in a game I was playing in, you'd be seeing the last of me, and any book resources I brought to the game. But only after I rolled up a new character and killed all of you in your sleep for their money, then ran off to be an NPC.
Panqui 03-16-06, 07:32 AM	...Otherwise you are stuck as an NPC and do not possess any of your previous abilities save what is listed in the MM under Vampire Spawn... Libris Mortis presents a monstrous progression for Vampire Spawn PCs. If you had class levels before you were made into a VS, you retain all but the last level, which is replaced by the first level of VS. So, if you were a Wiz 8, you are now a Wiz 7 / VS 1. Back to the OP...Shadow's suggestion of monk is a good one too. Since your blood drain ability is dependent on your ability to grapple well, it's a good fit. Regardless of what class you choose to progress in once you've finished your 8 levels of VS, remember that you're potentially a very intimidated creature now. I'd recommend taking advantage of that. Your lack of need to breathe can come in very useful too. As mentioned above, it makes you able to be in a bag of holding without suffocating. There are other situations where not having to breathe, smell, etc. can make the difference between life and death. Be watchful for those.
Doopliss 03-16-06, 10:57 AM	Going with the neckbiting theme of the posts now, consider using your Dominating Gaze (When you get it, if you're using a monster class) to hold a foe still while you drain him. Wizards usually don't have much in the way of grappling. (Though your ability bonuses should help with that)
ShadowDragon8685 03-16-06, 12:52 PM	Which was why I suggested Monk or Fighter. Or even Barbarian. You also want to pick up Improved Grapple. There was the word "might" there, but I removed it. +4 to grappling, and you don't take AoOs when you try? Hell yeah, baby!
DoctorRomulus 03-16-06, 04:49 PM	Here's an idea inspired by some of these posts. A Vampire Spawn who's been left inside a Bag of Holding after his/her entire party is wiped out and left in a tunnel in some dungeon somewhere.
Doopliss 03-20-06, 06:49 PM	In case zaknafein is still reading, how does preparing spells work in your campaign? You can't very well get the eight hours of rest...
Master9 08-19-06, 12:33 AM	Spell prep is covered in LM. You don't need to sleep, but you have to dedicate 8 hours to not doing anything at all to prepare them. As far as playbalance goes, anybody who says that undead are overpowered, either play with idiot DMs, or are subjected to extremist alarm calling. I've played in games with undead, and a few myself, and if I can say anything, it's that all of the undead in WotC books are very underpowered when it comes to being PCs. If you knock off the monster HD they have and make them templates (like the mummy template in the back of LM) then they become on par with a regular PC, but otherwise they're actually really fragile and not all that dangerous. Best analogy I can come up for peoples views of undead and actually playing them is this: most people think you're getting a +8 vorpal holy flaming longsword with true res once a week in exchange for only getting 6 hit points a level, when in reality you get a +2 dagger and only 1 hp. Total. And this is through experience. All of the broken horrors people talk about an undead doing really aren't all that bad when you get in game and see they're really not all that cool. And all of the really crazy stuff an equal level wizard can do better and with more flash.