Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LoNLinaChan 02-07-07, 10:39 PM	Hello, Here is the basics, I am a lvl 4 halfling rogue how specailizes in spiked chain and tripping (yes i know i suck a penalty just let me deal with that). in our party there is a druid with wolf , a barbarian bone crafter, a half elf ranger, a stupid barbarian, a duelist in training fighter, a cleric of some off the wall god, and a big dumb fighter. Here is where the issue stems we are all forth lvl with exception to myself and the ranger the party is human. we all had starting funds of 6500 gp. (i still have almost 4k) i have not been able to figgure out how it is the druids wolf is constantly hitting ac 27 or better with out buffs. how the bone crafter never hits below ac 27 when dropping 4 pt into power attack w/o rage. or how the cleric has 2 scrolls raise dead magic armour and 2 scrolls animemate dead. Can all this be done legitimately? what all bonus does the wolf get to his trip to make him that hayness? how is this barb constantly hitting that high ac when power attacking w/o rage?
Novabomb 02-07-07, 10:59 PM	It would be easier to verify the characters if we had the actual builds presented to us.
LoNLinaChan 02-07-07, 11:06 PM	It would be easier to verify the characters if we had the actual builds presented to us. i have druid stats but not bone caster or wolf here is druid str 15 dex 18 con 18 int 18 wis 18 cha 15 weapon dragonfang scimitar weapon sling feats improved init, combat casting, weapon focus armour hide +2 ring prot +1
Maekrix_Waere 02-07-07, 11:11 PM	Hello, Here is the basics, I am a lvl 4 halfling rogue how specailizes in spiked chain and tripping (yes i know i suck a penalty just let me deal with that). in our party there is a druid with wolf , a barbarian bone crafter, a half elf ranger, a stupid barbarian, a duelist in training fighter, a cleric of some off the wall god, and a big dumb fighter. Here is where the issue stems we are all forth lvl with exception to myself and the ranger the party is human. we all had starting funds of 6500 gp. (i still have almost 4k) i have not been able to figgure out how it is the druids wolf is constantly hitting ac 27 or better with out buffs. how the bone crafter never hits below ac 27 when dropping 4 pt into power attack w/o rage. or how the cleric has 2 scrolls raise dead magic armour and 2 scrolls animemate dead. Can all this be done legitimately? what all bonus does the wolf get to his trip to make him that hayness? how is this barb constantly hitting that high ac when power attacking w/o rage? Wolf-Regular wolf? What size? How many HD? Also, wolves can trip as part of an attack, so as long as that wolf hits, and if he's large, thats a pretty nice tripping machine. Cleric-Depends on his other EQ, but if he has 1300 gp left over, he can have all those BUT the raise dead's. Check and see if they really are RAISE dead. Barb-Must have a beautiful Str base, good weapon, probably with enchantment bonus, and might be a dice Jesus. 1d20+4 Str+1 Mwk+1 Enchantment+4 BAB+1 Str enchancement item+2 Greater Weapon Focus(?)-4 Power Attack=1d20+9 1d20+13 w/o Power Attack. His race would also help. Half-orc would add a +1 to both of those for +2 Str You-Really need to spend that 4k... Also, how do you know they hitting 27 AC's? I can't think of any way you level 4's would be fighting that kind of AC.
LoNLinaChan 02-07-07, 11:26 PM	Wolf-Regular wolf? What size? How many HD? Also, wolves can trip as part of an attack, so as long as that wolf hits, and if he's large, thats a pretty nice tripping machine. Cleric-Depends on his other EQ, but if he has 1300 gp left over, he can have all those BUT the raise dead's. Check and see if they really are RAISE dead. Barb-Must have a beautiful Str base, good weapon, probably with enchantment bonus, and might be a dice Jesus. 1d20+4 Str+1 Mwk+1 Enchantment+4 BAB+1 Str enchancement item+2 Greater Weapon Focus(?)-4 Power Attack=1d20+9 1d20+13 w/o Power Attack. His race would also help. Half-orc would add a +1 to both of those for +2 Str You-Really need to spend that 4k... Also, how do you know they hitting 27 AC's? I can't think of any way you level 4's would be fighting that kind of AC. basic wolf 4hd by druid lvl barb can't have greater weapon reqirement not met (fighter lvl 8) at best i can figgure assuming weapon focus bab +4 str +4 wpn focus +1 weapon bonus +1 (as +2 cost 8000 which is 1500 in ecess and strength buff items start at 16000) he should be 1d20 +10 1d20 +6 when pwr attack. he is human that i know.
Maekrix_Waere 02-07-07, 11:41 PM	The requirement Fighter level 8 is (at least amongst our group) the prerequisite to be taken as a BONUS Feat. Also, all magic items have masterwork quality which, for a weapon, is a +1 to attack, thusly a +1 Sword has +2 to attack and +1 to damage. Are you sure he ALWAYS takes out 4 from the attack bonus? Finally, make sure he remembers that the downside to Power Attack is that you have to subtract what you add to damage, if he doesn't know, or if he forgets, theres a reason...or if he actually IS in rage, but you don't know about it. Wolf-A regular wolf (as you have described) should NOT be able to hit an AC of 27. (I still find it strange that you fight 27 AC's. You'd be hard-pressed to find CR 10 monsters which have 27 AC's, let alone CR 4's. I'd make sure you have accurate numbers for those AC's.)
Krusk 02-07-07, 11:43 PM	i have druid stats but not bone caster or wolf here is druid str 15 dex 18 con 18 int 18 wis 18 cha 15 weapon dragonfang scimitar weapon sling feats improved init, combat casting, weapon focus armour hide +2 ring prot +1 Holy crap. well there is the reason the rest of the party is better. If you used anything close to a standard point buy, and everyone else used these stats you are going to be way behind. With 4k extra, id suggest magical chains.
StevenO 02-07-07, 11:49 PM	i have druid stats but not bone caster or wolf here is druid str 15 dex 18 con 18 int 18 wis 18 cha 15 weapon dragonfang scimitar weapon sling feats improved init, combat casting, weapon focus armour hide +2 ring prot +1 If these Druid sats are representive of the other characters I think you have at least part of your answers. Perhaps those are legitimately rolled stats (although I highly doubt it) but with a point buy of 77 for stats (vs. the basic 25) any character can be broken with the slightest amount of work. Stats like those quickly throw any of the normal balances away.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 02-08-07, 12:15 AM	The requirement Fighter level 8 is (at least amongst our group) the prerequisite to be taken as a BONUS Feat. Nope, it's to be taken period. The PHB is pretty explicit on that.
ressurrector 02-08-07, 12:41 AM	The requirement Fighter level 8 is (at least amongst our group) the prerequisite to be taken as a BONUS Feat. So long as you meet the pre-requisite (8 levels of fighter) you may then take the feat at any point. Also, all magic items have masterwork quality which, for a weapon, is a +1 to attack, thusly a +1 Sword has +2 to attack and +1 to damage. Incorrect, a +1 weapon (masterwork) has a +1 enhancement bonus to hit, and a +1 enhancement bonus to damage. As the masterwork bonus and the magic bonus are both enhancement bonuses they do not stack.
LoNLinaChan 02-08-07, 12:48 AM	So long as you meet the pre-requisite (8 levels of fighter) you may then take the feat at any point. Incorrect, a +1 weapon (masterwork) has a +1 enhancement bonus to hit, and a +1 enhancement bonus to damage. As the masterwork bonus and the magic bonus are both enhancement bonuses they do not stack. i see i'm not the only one that noticed that was wrong but i was going to let his delusions remain
crow04 02-08-07, 01:05 AM	off topic, but what would a non broken cheater be?
LoNLinaChan 02-08-07, 03:43 AM	off topic, but what would a non broken cheater be? well a non broken or balanced charactor would be designed for the fun of playing not the machanics of it. for instance my halfling is a tripper even though she suffers a penalty. as it's her little way of meating them eye to eye. yes she has good mechanics but she's not something the dm screams omfg how did you do that about either. also there was no point buy it's supposed to have been organic rolls. i'm afraid my paty members are abusing my newb dm. now he want to throw cr 8+ against us. they survive but i can't. i don't want to min/max and brake my charactor.
Maekrix_Waere 02-08-07, 08:28 PM	So long as you meet the pre-requisite (8 levels of fighter) you may then take the feat at any point. You may have noticed the disclaimer when I posted that. The disclaimer was there in case what I was told was influenced by rule #0. Incorrect, a +1 weapon (masterwork) has a +1 enhancement bonus to hit, and a +1 enhancement bonus to damage. As the masterwork bonus and the magic bonus are both enhancement bonuses they do not stack. :surrender You'll (hopefully) excuse me for not checking what types of bonuses they were. P.S.-Lina, theres a differance between delusions and mistakes. Delusions stay after being proven wrong.
mkill 02-08-07, 10:03 PM	well a non broken or balanced charactor would be designed for the fun of playing not the machanics of it. for instance my halfling is a tripper even though she suffers a penalty. as it's her little way of meating them eye to eye. yes she has good mechanics but she's not something the dm screams omfg how did you do that about either. also there was no point buy it's supposed to have been organic rolls. i'm afraid my paty members are abusing my newb dm. now he want to throw cr 8+ against us. they survive but i can't. i don't want to min/max and brake my charactor. Maybe you should talk to the DM and give him/her some guidance on what he's supposed to do. Looks like he gave your power-hungry players what they wanted and the game went upward in a power spiral. I suggest remaking all characters straight from the book, using a sensible point buy and probably a lot of other rules your DM didn't enforce yet. It's either this or you'll be posting "Help with a 30th level epic gestalt" on the CO boards soon.
Yokomohoyo 02-09-07, 01:43 AM	here is druid str 15 dex 18 con 18 int 18 wis 18 cha 15 weapon dragonfang scimitar weapon sling feats improved init, combat casting, weapon focus armour hide +2 ring prot +1 :OMG! If theese are rolled stats.... Damn I want him to roll up my next character... Thats atleast 1 in a million roll... I smell loaded die or a very hugh point buy system... 54points?
LoNLinaChan 02-09-07, 01:53 AM	:OMG! If theese are rolled stats.... Damn I want him to roll up my next character... Thats atleast 1 in a million roll... I smell loaded die or a very hugh point buy system... 54points? it's supposedly rolled he defends that one stat was a 17 before he hit forth level.
Yokomohoyo 02-09-07, 02:06 AM	Smells like baccon to me... Dude Ive been playing D&D for quite a wile I would say (since 1998) and I have never rolled more than 17+ in a single character, sure I can get some nice rolls like 10, 16, 10, 17, 8, 13 (in case of my last character) but none like 15, 18, 18, 18, 17, 15. One of the players in my current campain did roll with my lucky die 16, 17, 16, 12, 11, 13 but still he is the strongest rolled character in the game...
Type6 02-09-07, 02:59 AM	Messed up game, find another one.
johnkretzer 02-09-07, 03:18 AM	Hello, Here is the basics, I am a lvl 4 halfling rogue how specailizes in spiked chain and tripping (yes i know i suck a penalty just let me deal with that). in our party there is a druid with wolf , a barbarian bone crafter, a half elf ranger, a stupid barbarian, a duelist in training fighter, a cleric of some off the wall god, and a big dumb fighter. Here is where the issue stems we are all forth lvl with exception to myself and the ranger the party is human. we all had starting funds of 6500 gp. (i still have almost 4k) i have not been able to figgure out how it is the druids wolf is constantly hitting ac 27 or better with out buffs. how the bone crafter never hits below ac 27 when dropping 4 pt into power attack w/o rage. or how the cleric has 2 scrolls raise dead magic armour and 2 scrolls animemate dead. Can all this be done legitimately? what all bonus does the wolf get to his trip to make him that hayness? how is this barb constantly hitting that high ac when power attacking w/o rage? Yes they seem to be cheating as I can't figure it out. Though that doesn't mean there is no way to do it. My sugesstion is ask the DM or them on how they are doing it. If they are new they might not be doing it right....so it might be unintentional.
LoNLinaChan 02-09-07, 10:07 AM	Yes they seem to be cheating as I can't figure it out. Though that doesn't mean there is no way to do it. My sugesstion is ask the DM or them on how they are doing it. If they are new they might not be doing it right....so it might be unintentional. sadely they are both dm's as well so i don't think they are doing it by mistake. the barb is played by a wotc dm so he's no amature however this is the second time the dm for this game has attempted to run a game. i'm trying to help him but he's making all the clasic mastakes and i feel they're abusing his newbness.
FrostWolf 02-09-07, 11:00 AM	They are. *Sigh.... I can think of a few options here. Punish them for cheeting. Drop rust monsters to break the uber gear, and some type of super poison to permanatly nerf the cheeting stats. Or just start over with the a point system for them and let you keep your character.
Drag0nUL 02-09-07, 03:45 PM	About the druid's wolf: is he using any sort of barding for the animal? About the barbarian: I assume you roll attacks in the open. If so can you get an idea about his total to hit modifier? I really don't know how it can get higher than +11(+5 str(4 base and gauntlets+2),+1 WF,+1 weapon,+4 BAB)or +7 with power attack. As for the druid's stats, with those numbers even a commoner would be a powerhouse:) It is an almost unbelievable roll but not impossible. One of the players in a campaign I started a week ago rolled(and no fake since all the players&DM witnessed) 18 18 17 16 14 13, not much worse than the said druid so it is doable.
DoctorRomulus 02-09-07, 04:18 PM	Once upon a time I kid you not we (the group) watched a player roll five 18's for his character and one 14. All I can say is that it was a very cosmic event and the dice were not his but mine.
johnkretzer 02-09-07, 06:49 PM	sadely they are both dm's as well so i don't think they are doing it by mistake. the barb is played by a wotc dm so he's no amature however this is the second time the dm for this game has attempted to run a game. i'm trying to help him but he's making all the clasic mastakes and i feel they're abusing his newbness. You might be right... then talk to your DM about why they are cheating and ask them how they are doing this. If he does just support him (as well as any other player who feels the way you do). If you want to help your DM learn you have to let him do this. Part of the DM's job is to male sure everybody is playing fair.
Cael 02-16-07, 05:25 PM	well a non broken or balanced charactor would be designed for the fun of playing not the machanics of it. for instance my halfling is a tripper even though she suffers a penalty. as it's her little way of meating them eye to eye. yes she has good mechanics but she's not something the dm screams omfg how did you do that about either. also there was no point buy it's supposed to have been organic rolls. i'm afraid my paty members are abusing my newb dm. now he want to throw cr 8+ against us. they survive but i can't. i don't want to min/max and brake my charactor. In other words, a "balanced" character is one that is gimped in some way. Has it ever occured to you that he who fights on the enemy's terms invariably wind up dead? In other words, in a fight, if you have the advantage, you use it, not throw it away. It seems that that is what you are doing, to make things "balanced". That is not "balance". That is idiocy. In a fight, you do what you can to win, because losing means you end up in a casket six feet under or worse. Apply this to your character, or rather, your friends' characters. They want the best characters out there within the parameters set down by the DM. There is nothing wrong with that. They just want to survive. As is proven, they are surviving, but your gimped character isn't. If I were you, instead of complaining, I would take it as an object lesson in Darwinism, suck it up and move on.
Maekrix_Waere 02-16-07, 09:07 PM	In other words, a "balanced" character is one that is gimped in some way. Has it ever occured to you that he who fights on the enemy's terms invariably wind up dead? In other words, in a fight, if you have the advantage, you use it, not throw it away. It seems that that is what you are doing, to make things "balanced". That is not "balance". That is idiocy. In a fight, you do what you can to win, because losing means you end up in a casket six feet under or worse. Apply this to your character, or rather, your friends' characters. They want the best characters out there within the parameters set down by the DM. There is nothing wrong with that. They just want to survive. As is proven, they are surviving, but your gimped character isn't. If I were you, instead of complaining, I would take it as an object lesson in Darwinism, suck it up and move on. While I completely agree on your statement that fighting on your enemies' terms make dead people, I would like to remind that as of yet we do not KNOW that these characters are within the DM's set parameters.
Cael 02-16-07, 09:55 PM	While I completely agree on your statement that fighting on your enemies' terms make dead people, I would like to remind that as of yet we do not KNOW that these characters are within the DM's set parameters. Please note that the OP was not crying about them not playing on the DM's terms so much as that they are making "broken" characters that outshine hers. Note the part where she cries about how the other guys' characters are surviving but not hers Also, note that, invariably, he/she that moans about: "a non broken or balanced charactor would be designed for the fun of playing not the machanics of it" is one that look down on people that do optimise, but hates it when he/she is outshined. In other words, these are the people that like the lowest common denominator, that think mediocrity is God, and any advancement is a sin against the Universe. It is a bad combination, when one hates optimising, but hates being outshined even more. It is someone that gets envious of success, yet it is her own choice to be a failure. Personally, I do not understand the mental processes that goes into such a stance. However, it must make sense somewhere, somehow, or it would not exist. Yes, we do not know if the others are within the DM's parameters or not. However, I was not so much saying that they are as telling her that a non-gimped character does not mean that the player of the character is a "broken cheater", nor it is a sign of someone playing for mechanics rather than "roleplay". After all, one does not call an Olympic gold medalist a munchkin, now, do we?
Maekrix_Waere 02-16-07, 10:20 PM	Please note that the OP was not crying about them not playing on the DM's terms so much as that they are making "broken" characters that outshine hers. Note the part where she cries about how the other guys' characters are surviving but not hers Also, note that, invariably, he/she that moans about: "a non broken or balanced charactor would be designed for the fun of playing not the machanics of it" is one that look down on people that do optimise, but hates it when he/she is outshined. In other words, these are the people that like the lowest common denominator, that think mediocrity is God, and any advancement is a sin against the Universe. It is a bad combination, when one hates optimising, but hates being outshined even more. It is someone that gets envious of success, yet it is her own choice to be a failure. Personally, I do not understand the mental processes that goes into such a stance. However, it must make sense somewhere, somehow, or it would not exist. Yes, we do not know if the others are within the DM's parameters or not. However, I was not so much saying that they are as telling her that a non-gimped character does not mean that the player of the character is a "broken cheater", nor it is a sign of someone playing for mechanics rather than "roleplay". After all, one does not call an Olympic gold medalist a munchkin, now, do we? I was just saying that we don't know if the characters were indeed legal. Also, I believe that the original intention of this post was to make sure, either way, if these characters were legal or not. Please, I'm not trying to get into a fight here. I pride myself on being a professional character op'er, much like (if I have observed correctly) you do. If I was able to do all the thing listed above legally, no matter how many loopholes I had to jump through, I would hate being told I was broken or a cheater, as I would have merely made the most out of the system in place.
Cael 02-16-07, 10:39 PM	I was just saying that we don't know if the characters were indeed legal. Also, I believe that the original intention of this post was to make sure, either way, if these characters were legal or not. Please, I'm not trying to get into a fight here. I pride myself on being a professional character op'er, much like (if I have observed correctly) you do. If I was able to do all the thing listed above legally, no matter how many loopholes I had to jump through, I would hate being told I was broken or a cheater, as I would have merely made the most out of the system in place. Actually, I am merely an amatuer in the field. I come up with weird ideas that I'd like to play and then try to optimise the concept. However, I have been told time and again by people, particularly over in the Char Op boards that my builds are pretty weak. What I cannot understand, nor can I stand, is those that like to gimp their own characters and then try to pull others down to their level of disability by whinging and moaning about how everyone else is "broken" and are "munchkins". Thank the Gods that humanity in general is not like that, or we'd still be living naked in caves, with the discoverer of fire, inventor of the wheel and inventor of the bone tools sitting in the corner, having been beaten like red-headed stepchildren and whatever brains they have left lobotomised for daring to be "munchkins".
Maekrix_Waere 02-16-07, 10:44 PM	Actually, I am merely an amatuer in the field. I come up with weird ideas that I'd like to play and then try to optimise the concept. However, I have been told time and again by people, particularly over in the Char Op boards that my builds are pretty weak. What I cannot understand, nor can I stand, is those that like to gimp their own characters and then try to pull others down to their level of disability by whinging and moaning about how everyone else is "broken" and are "munchkins". I believe that the scientific term for it is: Holy **** you're stupid. Thank the Gods that humanity in general is not like that, or we'd still be living naked in caves, with the discoverer of fire, inventor of the wheel and inventor of the bone tools sitting in the corner, having been beaten like red-headed stepchildren and whatever brains they have left lobotomised for daring to be "munchkins". Hear-hear.