Help on strange races and tactics. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help on strange races and tactics. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ShadowDragon8685
02-24-05, 09:20 PM Okay now. I seeketh guidance, for in a bind I truely am.

First off, I need to know what in the nine hells a Fey'ri is, and what it's capable of. The DM allowed someone to use it, and it's a book the DM owns, and not the rest of us. I know it has insane DR for only an LA of +3, and can shapeshift, which is bollocks, but I need to know the full details.

Also, I need help with tactics. The DM is determined to railroad us through a death or glory dungeon before getting onto the plot, and he's said that he expects player deaths. I don't want player deaths.

So here's the situation. Our party consists of:

Lillend 7: My character. Rolled very well on stats.
HPs: 41/41
STR: 21
DEX: 14
CON: 17
INT: 22
WIS: 19
CHA: 21

For skills I took:
Appraise, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge: Arcana, Listen, Perform (four! times), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, and Use Magic Device (houseruled in as a Class skill.) The DM also ruled that since I slither, I got a +10 on Move Silently checks: Not gonna argue with it.
My feat selections include Flyby Attack and Hover, which are both of zero use in a cramped dungeon, and because I just hit 7th level, I also got my Improved Grab + Constrict routine.

For my weapon, I use a "Great Trumpet" - it's a big silver trumpet made to look like a Trumpet Archon's, is +1 and made of Adamantine, and acts like a Large Greatclub. I'm also packing a Gehennan Lancet and a Stabaxe (both from the Planar Handbook, just lile the character.)

My 0 level bard spells (of which I get 3+2,) are Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Summon Instrument, Message, Mending, and Ghost Sound.
My 1st level spells (of which I get 1 + 1) are Identify, Unseen Servant and CLW.

The other things I have are: 2 Quaal's Feather Token: Whip, four Quaal's Feather Token: Swan Boat, and four Quaal's Feather Token: Tree.

The other players are a Wizard 7, who just took Dimension Door and Phantasmal Killer, and is currently equipped with my Lillend's Staff of Frost. :)

There's also a Cleric 7, who's twinked out the max with a Bow of Frost and archery stuff, and has recently come into the possession of an Inteligent sword which, amongst other properties, is Holy, +3, shoots a stream of steam which deals 2d8 + something Fire, and if the target is undead, another 2d8 + same something Divine damage. It does this thrice daily.

We have a Human Swashbuckler, who, aside from her ability to twink her AC up to above 30, is completely useless as a melee character, being wholely unable to dish it out. Stupid dexterity fighters.

And we have the Fey'ri Rogue 3, who's a real pain in the ass, and is probably going to die a death at the hands of the rest of us PCs if she survives the encounter with the angry Salamander, because she's given them every reason to mistrust her and fear betrayal.

Facing us, besides the two Average Salamanders, numerous flaming Lizard Men, and fire Mephits, is at least one Salamander Noble, and a Vampire. (We've killed the average salamanders and lizard men and mephits, one of the salamanders stabailzed, came back for some more, and we're going to get rid of him in the next round of the next fight.)

So. I have a pretty good idea of how to deal with the Vampire. We'll use a combo of Death Ward to protect from his draining, and the fact that I'm an Outsider to get him into a fight with me and booger his abilites, and blast him with that holy water sword, and every other form of positive energy we can think of. Then we give his coffin the Adamantine Great Trumpet treatment.

The Salamander Noble, however, is the real pain. We're in cramped quarters, and he's got an absoloutly ridiculous number of hit points. Suggestions? Advice? And what about that Fey'ri?
Super Guy
02-25-05, 12:36 PM Well, I don't know what a Fey'ri is. If someone knows the book, they can point you to it, but otherwise we're unable to post stats or anything unless it's part of the SRD.

Chances are it's overpowered if it seems that way and it's not core. Hell, even some core stuff is underpowered or overpowered, but still, the further away from core it is (Fey'ri sounds like it, since I've never heard of it) the more likely it is to be unbalanced.

Anyways, to deal with Salamanders? Any cold damage you guys can create? If you have a cold weapon, but the weilder can't hit with it, give it to the guy who CAN hit, as long as it's still worth it (1.5X Cold damage to salamanders, I believe) damage-wise.

Other than that, since it looks like you're already locked in battle, you'll just have to do what you can. Ganging up is almost always key, remember that.
Krelios
02-25-05, 12:51 PM A Fey'ri is a fiendish elf from the Forgotten Realms (the product of Sun Elves and Tan'ar'ri). It is a 3.0 monster, so using it as written is horribly broken--you can find it in the Monsters of Faerun supplement.
ShadowDragon8685
02-25-05, 02:34 PM Ahhhh. It's a 3.0.

Son of a....
Now, since I'm likely going to have IC reasons to kill the other player, I need strategies that do not involve coup de grace in the sleep. The girl *dosen't* sleep, and that's too dishonorable, even for a Chaotic Good.

As for the salamander we're locked in combat with, I figure I can handle him. The Wizard has hasted us, and we're about to Dimension Door behind him, and I'm seriously thinking about trying to perform a Multiattack - two trumpet swings and a hit with my tail, even though I lack the feat. He has precisely 41 HP. (Don't ask how I know this.)

We have a Staff of Frost, don't know how many charges are left, and the DM houseruled that elemental vunerabilities cause 2x damage, not 1.5x. The Cleric has his bow of frost, but the problem is that none of us are going to be able to get near the Salamander Noble because of his range. He can Charge 40 feet in a round, and his swing range gets him another 20. So we have to stay a minimum of 65 feet from him at all times - not easy in 10 foot wide corridors.

I'm really ****** off. I mean, I spent DAYS trying to figure out how I could maintain my character concept for Lilea of Ysgard (my Lillend) and still twinkerize her so she can be useful in combat. And it worked, too. But then this little brat comes along, not only does she have levels in Bard, thus negating my individuality in that respect, but she does better in a fight than I do! She has DR TEN, for crying out loud! Can shapeshift, and can fly! She can do everything I can do, and better, and the player dosen't even have a CLUE how to build.

*sighs.* How in the hell are we going to survive the Salamander Noble. He's a CR 10 and can throw 9d6 Fireballs thrice daily. We can't repel firepower of that magnitude; ONE of his throws can take me down to almost nothing.

Can you Counterspell spell-like abilities?
SmokeShadow
02-25-05, 03:07 PM You can counter spell-like abilities.

Fey-ri's can shapechange like a doppleganger (without the mind reading). They must stay humanoid, and can't be radically different (although wings are okay).

The best way to deal with them is Banishment (because native outsiders are subject to it), or through the regular old beatings.

Lastly, I might be reading it wrong, but mistrust and fear of betrayal are not death warrants. They really must actually betray you, or do you harm before you harm them. Unless you're evil.
allenchan
02-25-05, 03:15 PM The monsters of faerun was updated to 3.5, and the Fey'ri were in the update, so thus they are 100% 3.5. They're actually not that amazing for a +3 LA, trust me. There are far, far, far worse things
stop whining, just because you're inept at character building and didnt know all your options.
Callista
02-25-05, 03:39 PM "inept at character building"? Oh, come on... it doesn't sound like the Lillend character is badly built.

Why do you want to kill this other character, by the way? I mean... what did s/he do to you, beyond the loss of pride? Wouldn't it be better to team up... y'know, make use of the other person's abilities?

'Course, if the other character betrayed yours... go right ahead!!

SOoo... Strategy: Surprise attacks; you're Chaotic and you can do that. Poisons--soften the other guy up. Hmmh. Oh, yeah, use cover and terrain to your advantage. Also, see if you can't get other people to help you--that Wizard sounds like he might be useful.

Though... I know this is a little metagaming-ish, but if you're truly going through a meat grinder dungeon, you'll want this other character around to help you survive it... so postpone the confrontation.
psionichamster
02-25-05, 04:31 PM strategy for noble salamander?

grab the fey'ri (imp gfrapple works well here) and hold her in front of you, human (half-fiend) shield style

oh wait, that's d20 modern...

um...

throw her at him (flying fey'ri = decent missile weapon) and while he is distracted, get 1 or 2 good shots in at him, retreat behind cover

i would also recommend you have a couple dispels/counterspells ready (if he's tossing off fireballs, make sure you counter them)

alternatively, trick the fey'ri into taking the first blast, problem solved. then you can take the opportunity to blast him back...

a wall of force, wall of stone, or iron may not be a bad idea, if you can pull it off, could save your butts

i dont know what your first lvl spells are (the text musta got cut off) so i can't help there...although greasing yourself and trying to grapple may be worthwhile...so long as he doesn't try the fireball at his feet maneuver

those feather tokens may provide you with some cover, too...if you can ready one (tree or boat) as a "counterspell" action, that may work...

basically, toss the token, have it take shape, it takes the blast of the fireball rather than you all...

the tree one may be useful if you have woodshape or something similar in the party....

um, is it too late to say "im sorry"?

good luck,
namaste,
the hamster
Super Guy
02-25-05, 04:33 PM If the salamander has range, what is he using? Natural weapons, or like, a spear?

If he's using a spear, just get up close. Sure, you'll take an AoO, but he can't hit you with the spear anymore.

Grappling might be an option if you're desperate. He can't use his Fireballs if he's grappled.
ShadowDragon8685
02-25-05, 09:34 PM He's a Salamander Noble.

He has 20 foot range with his +3 spear, and the same range with his tail, which is a range and close weapon.

And I am NOT going to grapple something with more Constrict damage than I have. Especially not when he has something like 2.59 times my hit points.

I was planning to use the Swan Boat tokens by flying high and dropping them on people.

My level 1 spells are Unseen Servant, CLW and Identify.
ShadowDragon8685
02-27-05, 05:03 PM A little more help? Please?
Odin_666
02-27-05, 05:35 PM You can counter spell-like abilities.

you can not! phb p180:

Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. [...] Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
Rowan_Whispercloak
02-27-05, 05:56 PM As for tactics try make it work for its fireball, if you can avoid it don't let it target more than one of you with a blast at a time and basically wear it down at a distance.

The Fey'ri isn't that big of a deal I played one (A Druid) in a game and let the DM give me my Demonic Abilities and he randomly generated: DR 10/magic, enervation 1/day, fire resistance 10,, and +2 on saves against eletricity.
AndrewRF
02-27-05, 09:58 PM The monsters of faerun was updated to 3.5, and the Fey'ri were in the update, so thus they are 100% 3.5. <snip>

I'm curious; where can the 3.5 update for MoF can be found?

Thanks!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ShadowDragon8685 02-24-05, 09:20 PM	Okay now. I seeketh guidance, for in a bind I truely am. First off, I need to know what in the nine hells a Fey'ri is, and what it's capable of. The DM allowed someone to use it, and it's a book the DM owns, and not the rest of us. I know it has insane DR for only an LA of +3, and can shapeshift, which is bollocks, but I need to know the full details. Also, I need help with tactics. The DM is determined to railroad us through a death or glory dungeon before getting onto the plot, and he's said that he expects player deaths. I don't want player deaths. So here's the situation. Our party consists of: Lillend 7: My character. Rolled very well on stats. HPs: 41/41 STR: 21 DEX: 14 CON: 17 INT: 22 WIS: 19 CHA: 21 For skills I took: Appraise, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge: Arcana, Listen, Perform (four! times), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, and Use Magic Device (houseruled in as a Class skill.) The DM also ruled that since I slither, I got a +10 on Move Silently checks: Not gonna argue with it. My feat selections include Flyby Attack and Hover, which are both of zero use in a cramped dungeon, and because I just hit 7th level, I also got my Improved Grab + Constrict routine. For my weapon, I use a "Great Trumpet" - it's a big silver trumpet made to look like a Trumpet Archon's, is +1 and made of Adamantine, and acts like a Large Greatclub. I'm also packing a Gehennan Lancet and a Stabaxe (both from the Planar Handbook, just lile the character.) My 0 level bard spells (of which I get 3+2,) are Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Summon Instrument, Message, Mending, and Ghost Sound. My 1st level spells (of which I get 1 + 1) are Identify, Unseen Servant and CLW. The other things I have are: 2 Quaal's Feather Token: Whip, four Quaal's Feather Token: Swan Boat, and four Quaal's Feather Token: Tree. The other players are a Wizard 7, who just took Dimension Door and Phantasmal Killer, and is currently equipped with my Lillend's Staff of Frost. :) There's also a Cleric 7, who's twinked out the max with a Bow of Frost and archery stuff, and has recently come into the possession of an Inteligent sword which, amongst other properties, is Holy, +3, shoots a stream of steam which deals 2d8 + something Fire, and if the target is undead, another 2d8 + same something Divine damage. It does this thrice daily. We have a Human Swashbuckler, who, aside from her ability to twink her AC up to above 30, is completely useless as a melee character, being wholely unable to dish it out. Stupid dexterity fighters. And we have the Fey'ri Rogue 3, who's a real pain in the ass, and is probably going to die a death at the hands of the rest of us PCs if she survives the encounter with the angry Salamander, because she's given them every reason to mistrust her and fear betrayal. Facing us, besides the two Average Salamanders, numerous flaming Lizard Men, and fire Mephits, is at least one Salamander Noble, and a Vampire. (We've killed the average salamanders and lizard men and mephits, one of the salamanders stabailzed, came back for some more, and we're going to get rid of him in the next round of the next fight.) So. I have a pretty good idea of how to deal with the Vampire. We'll use a combo of Death Ward to protect from his draining, and the fact that I'm an Outsider to get him into a fight with me and booger his abilites, and blast him with that holy water sword, and every other form of positive energy we can think of. Then we give his coffin the Adamantine Great Trumpet treatment. The Salamander Noble, however, is the real pain. We're in cramped quarters, and he's got an absoloutly ridiculous number of hit points. Suggestions? Advice? And what about that Fey'ri?
Super Guy 02-25-05, 12:36 PM	Well, I don't know what a Fey'ri is. If someone knows the book, they can point you to it, but otherwise we're unable to post stats or anything unless it's part of the SRD. Chances are it's overpowered if it seems that way and it's not core. Hell, even some core stuff is underpowered or overpowered, but still, the further away from core it is (Fey'ri sounds like it, since I've never heard of it) the more likely it is to be unbalanced. Anyways, to deal with Salamanders? Any cold damage you guys can create? If you have a cold weapon, but the weilder can't hit with it, give it to the guy who CAN hit, as long as it's still worth it (1.5X Cold damage to salamanders, I believe) damage-wise. Other than that, since it looks like you're already locked in battle, you'll just have to do what you can. Ganging up is almost always key, remember that.
Krelios 02-25-05, 12:51 PM	A Fey'ri is a fiendish elf from the Forgotten Realms (the product of Sun Elves and Tan'ar'ri). It is a 3.0 monster, so using it as written is horribly broken--you can find it in the Monsters of Faerun supplement.
ShadowDragon8685 02-25-05, 02:34 PM	Ahhhh. It's a 3.0. Son of a.... Now, since I'm likely going to have IC reasons to kill the other player, I need strategies that do not involve coup de grace in the sleep. The girl dosen't sleep, and that's too dishonorable, even for a Chaotic Good. As for the salamander we're locked in combat with, I figure I can handle him. The Wizard has hasted us, and we're about to Dimension Door behind him, and I'm seriously thinking about trying to perform a Multiattack - two trumpet swings and a hit with my tail, even though I lack the feat. He has precisely 41 HP. (Don't ask how I know this.) We have a Staff of Frost, don't know how many charges are left, and the DM houseruled that elemental vunerabilities cause 2x damage, not 1.5x. The Cleric has his bow of frost, but the problem is that none of us are going to be able to get near the Salamander Noble because of his range. He can Charge 40 feet in a round, and his swing range gets him another 20. So we have to stay a minimum of 65 feet from him at all times - not easy in 10 foot wide corridors. I'm really ****** off. I mean, I spent DAYS trying to figure out how I could maintain my character concept for Lilea of Ysgard (my Lillend) and still twinkerize her so she can be useful in combat. And it worked, too. But then this little brat comes along, not only does she have levels in Bard, thus negating my individuality in that respect, but she does better in a fight than I do! She has DR TEN, for crying out loud! Can shapeshift, and can fly! She can do everything I can do, and better, and the player dosen't even have a CLUE how to build. sighs. How in the hell are we going to survive the Salamander Noble. He's a CR 10 and can throw 9d6 Fireballs thrice daily. We can't repel firepower of that magnitude; ONE of his throws can take me down to almost nothing. Can you Counterspell spell-like abilities?
SmokeShadow 02-25-05, 03:07 PM	You can counter spell-like abilities. Fey-ri's can shapechange like a doppleganger (without the mind reading). They must stay humanoid, and can't be radically different (although wings are okay). The best way to deal with them is Banishment (because native outsiders are subject to it), or through the regular old beatings. Lastly, I might be reading it wrong, but mistrust and fear of betrayal are not death warrants. They really must actually betray you, or do you harm before you harm them. Unless you're evil.
allenchan 02-25-05, 03:15 PM	The monsters of faerun was updated to 3.5, and the Fey'ri were in the update, so thus they are 100% 3.5. They're actually not that amazing for a +3 LA, trust me. There are far, far, far worse things stop whining, just because you're inept at character building and didnt know all your options.
Callista 02-25-05, 03:39 PM	"inept at character building"? Oh, come on... it doesn't sound like the Lillend character is badly built. Why do you want to kill this other character, by the way? I mean... what did s/he do to you, beyond the loss of pride? Wouldn't it be better to team up... y'know, make use of the other person's abilities? 'Course, if the other character betrayed yours... go right ahead!! SOoo... Strategy: Surprise attacks; you're Chaotic and you can do that. Poisons--soften the other guy up. Hmmh. Oh, yeah, use cover and terrain to your advantage. Also, see if you can't get other people to help you--that Wizard sounds like he might be useful. Though... I know this is a little metagaming-ish, but if you're truly going through a meat grinder dungeon, you'll want this other character around to help you survive it... so postpone the confrontation.
psionichamster 02-25-05, 04:31 PM	strategy for noble salamander? grab the fey'ri (imp gfrapple works well here) and hold her in front of you, human (half-fiend) shield style oh wait, that's d20 modern... um... throw her at him (flying fey'ri = decent missile weapon) and while he is distracted, get 1 or 2 good shots in at him, retreat behind cover i would also recommend you have a couple dispels/counterspells ready (if he's tossing off fireballs, make sure you counter them) alternatively, trick the fey'ri into taking the first blast, problem solved. then you can take the opportunity to blast him back... a wall of force, wall of stone, or iron may not be a bad idea, if you can pull it off, could save your butts i dont know what your first lvl spells are (the text musta got cut off) so i can't help there...although greasing yourself and trying to grapple may be worthwhile...so long as he doesn't try the fireball at his feet maneuver those feather tokens may provide you with some cover, too...if you can ready one (tree or boat) as a "counterspell" action, that may work... basically, toss the token, have it take shape, it takes the blast of the fireball rather than you all... the tree one may be useful if you have woodshape or something similar in the party.... um, is it too late to say "im sorry"? good luck, namaste, the hamster
Super Guy 02-25-05, 04:33 PM	If the salamander has range, what is he using? Natural weapons, or like, a spear? If he's using a spear, just get up close. Sure, you'll take an AoO, but he can't hit you with the spear anymore. Grappling might be an option if you're desperate. He can't use his Fireballs if he's grappled.
ShadowDragon8685 02-25-05, 09:34 PM	He's a Salamander Noble. He has 20 foot range with his +3 spear, and the same range with his tail, which is a range and close weapon. And I am NOT going to grapple something with more Constrict damage than I have. Especially not when he has something like 2.59 times my hit points. I was planning to use the Swan Boat tokens by flying high and dropping them on people. My level 1 spells are Unseen Servant, CLW and Identify.
ShadowDragon8685 02-27-05, 05:03 PM	A little more help? Please?
Odin_666 02-27-05, 05:35 PM	You can counter spell-like abilities. you can not! phb p180: Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. [...] Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
Rowan_Whispercloak 02-27-05, 05:56 PM	As for tactics try make it work for its fireball, if you can avoid it don't let it target more than one of you with a blast at a time and basically wear it down at a distance. The Fey'ri isn't that big of a deal I played one (A Druid) in a game and let the DM give me my Demonic Abilities and he randomly generated: DR 10/magic, enervation 1/day, fire resistance 10,, and +2 on saves against eletricity.
AndrewRF 02-27-05, 09:58 PM	The monsters of faerun was updated to 3.5, and the Fey'ri were in the update, so thus they are 100% 3.5. <snip> I'm curious; where can the 3.5 update for MoF can be found? Thanks!