Help! Oracles and Divination [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help! Oracles and Divination [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
egodefluo
02-12-08, 12:55 PM I searched the boards and couldn't find a lot of information on this. I have a Divine Oracle and my DM and I are both having trouble with the hefty use of divinations. Currently, I am at about 10th level, so Commune, Divination and Scrying are spells that I can use fairly often.

I am having trouble thinking how to integrate these into the campaign. Should I be trying to scry on all the bad guys that get away? Should I be doing Divinations every night, asking about campaign and strategy, etc?

My DM is also having a hard time, giving away too much information and I generally need to tell him the previous week if i want to cast divination spells. Does anyone have advice on how to play this effectively?
Orchomenos
02-12-08, 02:18 PM What about receiving prophecies regarding random NPCs as short side-quests? If you're able to help these NPCs, they would have an helpful attitude next time you seek their help.
egodefluo
02-12-08, 06:18 PM What about receiving prophecies regarding random NPCs as short side-quests? If you're able to help these NPCs, they would have an helpful attitude next time you seek their help.

I was really asking about how to effectively use divination spells myself not through NPCs. Anyone have any thoughts there?
DrMorganes
02-13-08, 10:21 AM Effective use of Divinations requires your DM to be on the ball. In my opinion, in a game where divination magic is readily available at relatively low levels to any cleric choosing to prepare the proper spells, every DM must expect that a player will drop a divination at any time. This means they should be taking them into account when planning their adventures.

As a player of a divination specialist (whether divine or arcane is irrelevant), the first thing you need to do is get familiar with what your spells can and cannot do. Divinations are not the equivalent of a walk-through guide for your DM's adventure. They're closer to an InvisiClues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisiclues) booklet; they can help you find the way, but are often cryptic, require you to follow specific rules, and can just as easily throw you off the track.

Let's take a look at the more common (i.e., SRD-published) divinations:
Augury: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/augury.htm)Level 2 Cleric spell that allows for one simple answer (weal, woe, weal & woe, or nothing) for one course of action taking place within the next 30 minutes. Chance of meaningful answer is 70%+1% per level. 73% at Level 3 is pretty good, but the DM makes the roll. Additional castings on the same issue always result in the same action, and a "nothing" result could mean the augury failed OR that the proposed action won't have much of a positive or negative impact.

This spell is nice for "should we or shouldn't we" questions, but there's always a chance of uncertainty. Augury cannot take long-term consequences into account. Picking that lock may result in an immediate result of "weal", but may have long-term consequences that are ruinous!
Divination: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divination.htm)(4th level cleric) Augury's older brother. This spell gets you "useful information" about an event taking place within 1 week. Chance of success is the same, but you know if the spell fails - most of the time. The spell notes that "specific magic yielding false information" can interfere with the results, so your DM is still rolling the dice.

Also, the information received "can be as simple as a short phrase, or it might take the form of a cryptic rhyme or omen." The "usefulness" of this information may not be readily apparent, and worse the result can obsolesce if the party fails to act. Further complicating things, multiple castings will result in identical information.
Commune: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commune.htm) (Level 5 Cleric). You contact some divine power for yes or no answers. "Unclear" is an acceptable response, and short phrases could be used where a yes or no may lead you to an action contrary to the power's wishes. Answers are correct within the limits of the power's knowledge. Deities in D&D are not all-knowing. Asking questions outside the power's portfolio will likely result in a lot of "no" or "unclear" answers.

whoops! Look at the time. Blasted meetings...

I'll post back with a run-down of arcane divinations and some notes on how DMs may use divinations of all sorts.
Orchomenos
02-13-08, 11:22 AM I was really asking about how to effectively use divination spells myself not through NPCs.

No, what I meant is your character can cast some divination spell each day. Instead of each time having a more or less cryptic clue on the campaign plot (which is some hard work for the DM to not tell too much), he could just drop a clue about some random NPC.

For example, that Joe-the-Butcher will have an hard meeting with Nic Epona (or Epona's daughter, where Epona is the Celtic Goddess of horses). In this specific case, you would have to warn Joe-the-Butcher to take extra care to horses today. And as you explain all this to Joe-the-Butcher, some deliveryman loose control of his horse-dragged cart, the cart passes exactly where Joe would have been, shouldn't have you begin talking to him. Result: you save Joe-the-Butcher's life, he is now Friendly or Helpful instead of Indifferent.
egodefluo
02-14-08, 05:27 PM No, what I meant is your character can cast some divination spell each day. Instead of each time having a more or less cryptic clue on the campaign plot (which is some hard work for the DM to not tell too much), he could just drop a clue about some random NPC.

For example, that Joe-the-Butcher will have an hard meeting with Nic Epona (or Epona's daughter, where Epona is the Celtic Goddess of horses). In this specific case, you would have to warn Joe-the-Butcher to take extra care to horses today. And as you explain all this to Joe-the-Butcher, some deliveryman loose control of his horse-dragged cart, the cart passes exactly where Joe would have been, shouldn't have you begin talking to him. Result: you save Joe-the-Butcher's life, he is now Friendly or Helpful instead of Indifferent.

Ah, I see what you mean. That is def a different take on it.
egodefluo
02-14-08, 05:31 PM I'll post back with a run-down of arcane divinations and some notes on how DMs may use divinations of all sorts.

Thanks for the info on the spells. I was actually looking at negotiating reworking some arcane divinations into the mix by means of divine magician from complete mage. What would be suggested arcane divinations to look at? Or would there be good divination feats that might fit better?

In your opinion where does scrying fit into that? How often does scrying on the evil guys really work? Is scry location a good alternative?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
egodefluo 02-12-08, 12:55 PM	I searched the boards and couldn't find a lot of information on this. I have a Divine Oracle and my DM and I are both having trouble with the hefty use of divinations. Currently, I am at about 10th level, so Commune, Divination and Scrying are spells that I can use fairly often. I am having trouble thinking how to integrate these into the campaign. Should I be trying to scry on all the bad guys that get away? Should I be doing Divinations every night, asking about campaign and strategy, etc? My DM is also having a hard time, giving away too much information and I generally need to tell him the previous week if i want to cast divination spells. Does anyone have advice on how to play this effectively?
Orchomenos 02-12-08, 02:18 PM	What about receiving prophecies regarding random NPCs as short side-quests? If you're able to help these NPCs, they would have an helpful attitude next time you seek their help.
egodefluo 02-12-08, 06:18 PM	What about receiving prophecies regarding random NPCs as short side-quests? If you're able to help these NPCs, they would have an helpful attitude next time you seek their help. I was really asking about how to effectively use divination spells myself not through NPCs. Anyone have any thoughts there?
DrMorganes 02-13-08, 10:21 AM	Effective use of Divinations requires your DM to be on the ball. In my opinion, in a game where divination magic is readily available at relatively low levels to any cleric choosing to prepare the proper spells, every DM must expect that a player will drop a divination at any time. This means they should be taking them into account when planning their adventures. As a player of a divination specialist (whether divine or arcane is irrelevant), the first thing you need to do is get familiar with what your spells can and cannot do. Divinations are not the equivalent of a walk-through guide for your DM's adventure. They're closer to an InvisiClues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisiclues) booklet; they can help you find the way, but are often cryptic, require you to follow specific rules, and can just as easily throw you off the track. Let's take a look at the more common (i.e., SRD-published) divinations: Augury: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/augury.htm)Level 2 Cleric spell that allows for one simple answer (weal, woe, weal & woe, or nothing) for one course of action taking place within the next 30 minutes. Chance of meaningful answer is 70%+1% per level. 73% at Level 3 is pretty good, but the DM makes the roll. Additional castings on the same issue always result in the same action, and a "nothing" result could mean the augury failed OR that the proposed action won't have much of a positive or negative impact. This spell is nice for "should we or shouldn't we" questions, but there's always a chance of uncertainty. Augury cannot take long-term consequences into account. Picking that lock may result in an immediate result of "weal", but may have long-term consequences that are ruinous! Divination: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divination.htm)(4th level cleric) Augury's older brother. This spell gets you "useful information" about an event taking place within 1 week. Chance of success is the same, but you know if the spell fails - most of the time. The spell notes that "specific magic yielding false information" can interfere with the results, so your DM is still rolling the dice. Also, the information received "can be as simple as a short phrase, or it might take the form of a cryptic rhyme or omen." The "usefulness" of this information may not be readily apparent, and worse the result can obsolesce if the party fails to act. Further complicating things, multiple castings will result in identical information. Commune: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commune.htm) (Level 5 Cleric). You contact some divine power for yes or no answers. "Unclear" is an acceptable response, and short phrases could be used where a yes or no may lead you to an action contrary to the power's wishes. Answers are correct within the limits of the power's knowledge. Deities in D&D are not all-knowing. Asking questions outside the power's portfolio will likely result in a lot of "no" or "unclear" answers. whoops! Look at the time. Blasted meetings... I'll post back with a run-down of arcane divinations and some notes on how DMs may use divinations of all sorts.
Orchomenos 02-13-08, 11:22 AM	I was really asking about how to effectively use divination spells myself not through NPCs. No, what I meant is your character can cast some divination spell each day. Instead of each time having a more or less cryptic clue on the campaign plot (which is some hard work for the DM to not tell too much), he could just drop a clue about some random NPC. For example, that Joe-the-Butcher will have an hard meeting with Nic Epona (or Epona's daughter, where Epona is the Celtic Goddess of horses). In this specific case, you would have to warn Joe-the-Butcher to take extra care to horses today. And as you explain all this to Joe-the-Butcher, some deliveryman loose control of his horse-dragged cart, the cart passes exactly where Joe would have been, shouldn't have you begin talking to him. Result: you save Joe-the-Butcher's life, he is now Friendly or Helpful instead of Indifferent.
egodefluo 02-14-08, 05:27 PM	No, what I meant is your character can cast some divination spell each day. Instead of each time having a more or less cryptic clue on the campaign plot (which is some hard work for the DM to not tell too much), he could just drop a clue about some random NPC. For example, that Joe-the-Butcher will have an hard meeting with Nic Epona (or Epona's daughter, where Epona is the Celtic Goddess of horses). In this specific case, you would have to warn Joe-the-Butcher to take extra care to horses today. And as you explain all this to Joe-the-Butcher, some deliveryman loose control of his horse-dragged cart, the cart passes exactly where Joe would have been, shouldn't have you begin talking to him. Result: you save Joe-the-Butcher's life, he is now Friendly or Helpful instead of Indifferent. Ah, I see what you mean. That is def a different take on it.
egodefluo 02-14-08, 05:31 PM	I'll post back with a run-down of arcane divinations and some notes on how DMs may use divinations of all sorts. Thanks for the info on the spells. I was actually looking at negotiating reworking some arcane divinations into the mix by means of divine magician from complete mage. What would be suggested arcane divinations to look at? Or would there be good divination feats that might fit better? In your opinion where does scrying fit into that? How often does scrying on the evil guys really work? Is scry location a good alternative?