Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bomaz 04-19-05, 09:17 AM	In my party we have no tank. we have a psion thrallheard a cleric (he dont do armor) a warlock a psiwarrior/sorcerer cerebromancer and a druid. None can take any great amounts of damage. how is the best way to survive?
Morka 04-19-05, 09:43 AM	Perhaps summoning monsters? Lots of them? While your foes are dealing with those meat-shields, you can fire them all the range weapons you have. Could your druid wild-shape into a bear or something else with high constitution?
CzarGarrett 04-19-05, 09:54 AM	Thrallherd- get an ogre or some other similiar creature to tank it out. Druid- summon monsters, wildshape into bear to tank Sorcerer- summon monsters. Cleric- start using armor and buff spells, and become tank
DracoDM01 04-19-05, 10:03 AM	If the druid is high enough level they can make wood full plate with woodshape then go with (insert spell that makes wood as hard as iron)(cant remember).
weasel fierce 04-19-05, 08:14 PM	Stay out of combat. If you have to fight, plan ahead, and try to turn the situation to your advantage (long range attacks, flaming oil, traps and running battles)
Moon-Lancer 04-19-05, 09:13 PM	They could wear Dragon hide fullplate armor and put that wild enhancment on it, +amulits of natural armor and wildshape into a bear.
fallabel 04-19-05, 09:18 PM	Why doesn't the cleric 'do armor'?
Razoreface 04-20-05, 12:36 AM	You can't give them big physically dangerous enemies, that's all. They can take spells, because they get saving throws, but if a couple fighters walk up to them, they'd be toasty. Or beat them down a few times, they might take the bloody hint and enhance their constitution. I don't care if you're a spellcaster, constitution is not a dump stat. It's your life.
Lobo13 04-20-05, 12:57 AM	Unless your cleric person is a true roleplayer and/or has a darn good reason nto to wear armor (monk's belt, etc), hit him in the head with a board, tell himt o get some armor, buff his arse, and tank. Clerics are battle casters fromt he start, no reason they can't take a few hits. And with no spell failure percentage for wearing armor, your cleric better have a **** good reason for not "do" ing armor...Lobo13
Ogre Mage 04-20-05, 01:02 AM	Battlefield control is the key. It's a shame you don't have a wizard. Web, Glitterdust and Entangle will stop 'em cold. Liberal use of Blindness and Hold Person can take out key enemies.
bomaz 04-20-05, 06:46 AM	Unless your cleric person is a true roleplayer and/or has a darn good reason nto to wear armor (monk's belt, etc), hit him in the head with a board, tell himt o get some armor, buff his arse, and tank. Clerics are battle casters fromt he start, no reason they can't take a few hits. And with no spell failure percentage for wearing armor, your cleric better have a **** good reason for not "do" ing armor...Lobo13 He is a necromancer, horned harbringer. He travels in a chir carried by 4 skeletons. dont fit his personality. he is a true roleplayer. Hm the druid might be able to get something with a high con. even if he was con drained permanently last session.
Norseman 04-20-05, 06:53 AM	He is a necromancer, horned harbringer. He travels in a chir carried by 4 skeletons. dont fit his personality. he is a true roleplayer. Hm the druid might be able to get something with a high con. even if he was con drained permanently last session. BAH! You have a necromancer and you're complaing about lack of meatshield?!
bomaz 04-20-05, 06:54 AM	yes. he dont have any undead or components at the time.
Callista 04-20-05, 06:56 AM	Well, how 'bout he gets himself some bone armor? I know it's out there, somewhere. And, at any rate, dead black full- or half-plate should work nicely with his character concept. Necromancers should know enough about death to protect themselves from it. Or he could always get glamered armor--that will look like whatever he normally wears, but offer the protection of armor. I'm a "true role-player" myself; but letting my character get killed isn't very conducive to role-playing, is it? And, speaking of necromancers... why not get his undead to tank for you? one low-value gem per undead isn't that much to pay.
Norseman 04-20-05, 07:20 AM	yes. he dont have any undead or components at the time. What about the four skeletons carrying his pansy ass? (Edit: wow, ass wasn't censored? Eh.) If he doesn't share the load don't share the loot.
Solidcobra 04-20-05, 07:29 AM	...wow. necro cleric without armor? Rrright. Step 1 for the cleric: Get some darn armor. Step 2: Kill anything big and bad. Step 3: Raise as skeleton or zombie. Step 4: Ta-dah. tank minion. Step 5: ??? Step 6: PROFIT! For the druid... HOW THE HECK ISN'T HE A TANK? Druids are ZE tanks. They should have a dragonhide fullplate with the wild enhancement plus their natural AC in animal form, which stacks with the natural AC from barkskin. AND they get their wicked summons. o_O Wow. Druid...no tank...my bony ass.
CzarGarrett 04-20-05, 09:52 AM	Step 2: Kill anything big and bad. Step 3: Raise as skeleton or zombie. Step 4: Ta-dah. tank minion. Step 5: ??? Step 6: PROFIT! Hell, it doesn't even have to be big and bad at first. You can go around killing a couple of medium animals or something and get 3 or 4 lesser tanks.
Lobo13 04-20-05, 10:09 PM	-The main problem here is that this guy's group just doesn't know what their characters can do...i suggest you meet about a half hour early before next game, take some ideas from this thread, take whatever source material you're allowed, sit around a table, and brainstorm... You guys have a solid group that is very flexible, having to ask just means you haven't thought about it enough...creativity is a good thing.-Lobo13
Razoreface 04-21-05, 12:30 AM	... skeletons and zombies are meat shields? Hell, if you take a wood shield and smack it with a skeleton, the skeleton will break before the shield will. People would just go around something as nonthreatening as that.. it's not Diablo. Meat shields need to be dangous, not just space fillers. :) Mostly the problem is that with both arcane and divine casters, there are always summon spells. Those are meat shields.
Mirikon 04-21-05, 12:45 AM	Hit and run, guerilla warfare. You fire, and move back. Fire, and move back. If that doesn't work, just run. That strategy will, most likely, get you to the higher levels when you can actually survive.
Plastik 04-21-05, 12:55 AM	I think you should look at WHY you don't have a tank. My grup now doesn't have atank, and it's very much my fault. I was the tank, and the other PCs betrayed me by taking everything they could lay their hands on while I was distracted. After I found out, I turned on them in battle. Almost a TPK. And now I'm a wiz/rogue and VERRRY much a theif. Do you have similar problems?
Marcus Majarra 04-21-05, 01:07 AM	You're a bunch of caster-types. It would help to know which spells/powers those with limited casting ability know. The PsyWar/Sorcerer should be buffing himself, and concentrate on dealing battle damage as often as possible. Tanking is easy as a Sorcerer, with access to spells such as Alter Self (you can easily get humanoid forms with +6 to +8 Natural Armor bonuses, plus a number of natural weapons), Polymorph (THE most versatile spell there is outside Shapechange), etc. Personal transmutations are your best friends. Complement this with some very useful PsyWar powers (such as Psionic Lion's Charge, Hustle, and Expansion), and you've got your battlefield control covered. There's nothing more dangerous to your opponents than a Gargantuan (or possibly Colossal if you can augment Expansion) Behir who can just decide to grab them all and swallow them one after the other (or just repeatedly rake them). Interesting forms are those with a great size advantage, and a truckload of natural weapons. Dragon forms are interesting, since your Expansion power grants you access to dragon abilities that depend on size (such as Crush). The thrallherd should be relying on Psionic Charm and Psionic Dominate on weak-willed opponents to use as meat shields against other enemies. That's a given. The warlock can do a lot, but it really depends on his choice of invocations. Until we know a bit more, all I can suggest is to keep away from the monsters, and concentrate the Eldritch Blasts on the opponents taking the most damage. The necromantic cleric can always provide more meat shields for damage, depending on the need. Remember that zombies have DR 5/slashing and skeletons have DR 5/bludgeoning. He should keep high-HD undead nearby for combat meat shielding while he buffs the party. He should always keep a stash of black onyxes of various values on hand. Animate Dead requires only a standard action to cast, and this allows you to turn your fallen foes into permanent allies. He should keep in mind that his undead should never be sacrificed unless he can't afford to do otherwise. It's cheaper to channel negative energy to heal an undead than to come up with more onyxes to animate more corpses. The druid should concentrate on summoning. He can take part in melee combat through Wild Shape and the Animal Growth spell if need be.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 04-21-05, 10:42 PM	But skeletons can't be meatshields. They don't have meat... :) But yeah, the undead are your good friends. Also, have the druid get a bear or something as an animal companion. Also, have all your summoners get the appropriate feats to beef up the stuff they summon. And lastly, there is no reason your PCs can't multi-class.
LCD2YOU 04-22-05, 08:51 AM	You can't give them big physically dangerous enemies, that's all. They can take spells, because they get saving throws, but if a couple fighters walk up to them, they'd be toasty. Or beat them down a few times, they might take the bloody hint and enhance their constitution. I don't care if you're a spellcaster, constitution is not a dump stat. It's your life. Sometimes they choose you. This party sounds like it could be taken out with 6 orcs using bows.
Anthus_Longblade 04-22-05, 11:24 AM	I once DMed for a party of three characters without a "tank" (A ranger, a wizard[necromancer] and a druid.), and they did fine because of one thing: range. As long as they started combat a couple of hundred feet away, they'd do fine. The ranger had a TAB something crazy with his bow, and the wizard could just sling fireballs. The druid spent the time the enemy spent closing whip up a few summons, which served as a distraction while they scrammed. They rarely entered melee themselves.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 04-24-05, 12:47 AM	I once DMed for a party of three characters without a "tank" (A ranger, a wizard[necromancer] and a druid.), and they did fine because of one thing: range. As long as they started combat a couple of hundred feet away, they'd do fine. The ranger had a TAB something crazy with his bow, and the wizard could just sling fireballs. The druid spent the time the enemy spent closing whip up a few summons, which served as a distraction while they scrammed. They rarely entered melee themselves. Actually, in my group rangers are considered to be tanks, albeit light ones. With good dexterity, studded leather armor, and two-weapon fighting, a ranger can be just as effective a tank as a fighter or barbarian. They just use slightly different tactics is all.
ILL34GL3 04-24-05, 06:03 AM	Why is everyone talking about druids with fullplate? They have to burn an feat to wear heavy armor. Despite that, if your druid isn't fulfilling the role of tank, he doesn't know how to play a druid. Animal companion, wildshape, spell buffs, spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally spells. That's plenty of tank right there. Direct the druid player to the Character Optimization boards and check out the druid handbook in the stickied 3.5 build thread.
solbergb 04-27-05, 04:20 PM	A party with no tanks just has to use mobility and terrain. We had a party who was so bad at tanking my wizard was the "Tank" for the first 6 levels because of a high constitution score. It really wasn't that big a deal. You just don't fight toe-to-toe with anything, you never stand still for the full attack. It's a bit of a more fluid style than most folks are used to but it does work.
tiercel 04-28-05, 07:37 PM	Lots of solutions, mostly already discussed at length: 1) Druid + wildshape + buffing self = tank 2) Summon minions = disposable tanks 3) Create undead minions = mostly-disposable tanks (cost some money, time to find black opals) 4) Charm/dominate/enthrall/fast-talk/whatever people into tanking for you 5) Be light on your feet so that you aren't forced to tank and, of course, 6) Splatter them so hard from range that you hardly ever need to worry about tanking. Seriously - with that many spellcasters/manifesters you should be able to throw down a pretty hideous amount of damage and/or status ailments (blindness, concealment, nausea, confusion, weakness, whatever) in a very short amount of time. You have to have a solution for the rare times you get jumped in melee, but as long as someone (at least the druid!) has good Spot/Listen, you should be able to have some say over the range at which you begin combat.