Post/Author/DateTime	Post
[GSV] Kirstar 03-26-04, 03:39 AM	As a player I have a problem in game. For some reason i've run out of ideas to fix it. I will lay out the senario for you. My group and I are playing in a fairly low magic campaign. The campaign world also has serious restrictions on characters over 12th level. Think heroic quest to reach 13th, another for 14th etc etc etc. Anyway.... I am part of a 12th level party. There is me 12th Wizard The other characters consist of 10th monk 8th fighter 4th Psion 2nd fighter 10th wizard 12th figther now for reasons I wont go into (think balor and lots of lube). everyone but the monk & myself have had their alignment swapped to CE. Does anyone have any ideas how to swap this back. oh yes..... The highest level priest we have access to is 8th level. answers on a postcard too......
DarkKnight27 03-26-04, 04:32 AM	I'd say that you'll have to roleplay out changing their alignment back to something a little more "party friendly". Perhaps uses of the Diplomacy and/or heal skill to help with the transition. Alternately the use of a couple well used Dominate Person spells could go a long way to bringing them back to the Light Side. Or you could just break down and ask your DM how and the monk can bring their personalities back. Hope this helps a little at least,
q'afuu 03-26-04, 05:31 AM	Originally posted by [GSV] Kirstar now for reasons I wont go into (think balor and lots of lube). everyone but the monk & myself have had their alignment swapped to CE. I don't need to know the why, but the how would be useful. You can go for the brute force approach that solves everything, but given your campaign restrictions that's hard - consequently, you'll want an elegant solution. We're only going to come up with that if we know the particulars.
Heron_Marked_Blade 03-26-04, 09:16 AM	Create a Helm of Opposite Alignment (cursed item; requirements: CL 12, Create Wondrous Item; price 4,000gp) for each person in your party (each helm only works once). Then convince them to fail the DC 15 Will save voluntarily, which will switch their alignments from CE to NG. Cost you 6,000gp + 480xp + 12 days to craft three of them.
nexus83 03-26-04, 05:35 PM	The problem with the Helm of Opposite alignment is that you can't volunterrily fail your save unless of course you lied. Your DM might not appreciate that. Of course what he doesn't know won't kill him.
Quenditar 03-26-04, 06:22 PM	Originally posted by nexus83 The problem with the Helm of Opposite alignment is that you can't volunterrily fail your save unless of course you lied. Your DM might not appreciate that. Of course what he doesn't know won't kill him. Hmm...wouldn't Charm Person or Suggestion work well here? "This is a powerful magic helmet. It's going to cast a spell on you that will make you much more powerful, so don't resist it."
aka Jimmy 03-26-04, 11:58 PM	I really don't see what the problem is here. So they got switched to "eeevvviiilll". Boo freaking hoo. Just have them keep on acting exactly like they did before. If they were "good" characters who just ran afoul of a :censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored::censored::censored:-alignment-happy DM (for example, any DM who has ever started a topic about paladins around the "whats a DM to do" board) then eventually the DM will switch them back to "good". Just ignore his petty alignment switches. Have them play their characters how they want their characters to be. Whats stopping a character whos alignment got switched to evil by the DM from accepting and completing these heroic quests? NOTHING. If the DM objects, just hand your sheets over and tell him to play with himself, because the is obviously what he wants to do.
Lily_Knight 03-27-04, 05:07 AM	Originally posted by [GSV] Kirstar (think balor and lots of lube). Dude...I don't want to... Alignment change huh? The best way to get it changed back is to play it. A chaotic evil wizard is not good for any party, especially a party of lower-level characters. If you play your wizard correctly then your DM has screwed up the campaign. In my unhonourable opinion, this is the best motivation for your DM to change the situation. The DM should fix this situation, as it seems it is impossible for a player to. If he can't see this, then maybe you should point it out.
Lily_Knight 03-27-04, 05:09 AM	Originally posted by aka Jimmy Boo freaking hoo. You sound like my DM...
[GSV] Kirstar 03-27-04, 03:15 PM	i should of mentioned. the alignment change is due to a rule we play where the POWER tha resurects you alters your alignment towards theirs. The how.... the 5 of us... were attacking the camp of the super duper bad guy. He was a half demon, and had a sucubus as a minion. anyway.... we are kicking butt. Lots of criticle hits and failed saves on their part. Sucubus (goes by the name niomi :)) uses her gate ability..... balor turns up. vorpal sword...... 3 party members dead.... I win speed TELEPORT...... later I return to recover the bodies, hoping to get them raised somehow. However a dificulty exisit in that I have the highest level priest in the campaign as a hostage to prevent the country he rules from invading the free city I live in. And the rest of the priest hood now hates my (and the other pc's) guts Hack & slash and politics.. great fun..... Anyway balor raises teh party members... they are already a bit to the darkside.... playing such alignments as Loony Goony, loony Naugty, etc etc you all now the sort of players.... what ever their alignment they are always CRAZY EVIL deep down. Now the reason I was asking adviceis as follows. The DM and I have been playing now for 20 years and we know how the other thinks. Any puzzles are almost impossible for the other to solve because other wise its too easy. I didnt thinkof the helm. Its a great idea. I have wasted all my feats on crafting magic items anyway. Now I could just slay them again. My city and the world would be safe. I could make them a nice tomb and put a statue above it. But then I wouldnt have any other player to play with so i would have to retire. Last thing...... In our campaign we do use the craft magic feats..... but....... we also use wonderous type components. Think 2nd ed. Any ideas for wonderous components for a helm of oppposite alignemnt ?
[GSV] Kirstar 03-27-04, 03:16 PM	Originally posted by aka Jimmy I really don't see what the problem is here. So they got switched to "eeevvviiilll". Boo freaking hoo. Just have them keep on acting exactly like they did before. If they were "good" characters who just ran afoul of a :censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored::censored::censored:-alignment-happy DM (for example, any DM who has ever started a topic about paladins around the "whats a DM to do" board) then eventually the DM will switch them back to "good". Just ignore his petty alignment switches. Have them play their characters how they want their characters to be. Whats stopping a character whos alignment got switched to evil by the DM from accepting and completing these heroic quests? NOTHING. If the DM objects, just hand your sheets over and tell him to play with himself, because the is obviously what he wants to do. The thing is this. If they dont play their alignment they dont get XP. Simple.
Felgraf2 03-27-04, 05:34 PM	The thing is this. If they dont play their alignment they dont get XP. Simple. This is logic I never understood. Alignments do not determine what kind of actions a person takes: Rather, a PERSON'S ACTIONS DETERMINES HIS ALIGNMENT. The whole "If they don't play their alignment thing" doesn't make any *sense*. If that were true, that Alignment dictated actions, then Paladins could never, ever fall to evil and the like, since their lawful good to begin with. I believe that if you don't play your alignment, it should gradually get changed. Now, that said, I'm not sure how helms of opposite alignment fit in here, as it would probably drastically re-wire how their minds worked, and the like. Items such as that make figuring out how to play alignment quite hard (as you would have to play evil for a while until one could convince you to redeem yourself). I do often wonder if such items should exist: They seem far, far too powerful for what it takes to create them.
gerbilattack 03-27-04, 11:29 PM	get an awsome good diety and a miricle, if your DM gives you that... both acoually alignment kinda dictates personality but, things change when things happen
RRG 03-28-04, 11:08 AM	Creat three of the most powerful weapons you can, make sure that they are either Lawful, Holy, or both. Once finished, offer them the deal; if they shape up their acts (act as a more good alignment), they get the swords. If they try and steal the swords, laugh at them as they begin to suck when they use them. Then, bring in the 3 Helms of Alignment Changing and offer them up to the evil trie; "If you wear these helmets, their magic will cancel out the magic in the swords that are causing you to suck!" Trust me, this will work :D :smirk:
[GSV] Kirstar 03-29-04, 02:20 AM	no need now. they attacked the church again. we already had the highest level priest in the campaign, they were trying for the second.... 3 failed fortitude saves for Baneful Polymorph later//// problem solved.
noshoes 03-30-04, 05:33 PM	did the players know that they had a choise to be brought back or not as they would know who was attempting to raise them and refuse if they wanted? Other than that theres always the Atonement spell Clr/Drd 5
[GSV] Kirstar 03-31-04, 05:18 AM	no they didnt get a choice. the only priest able to raise them is a statue in my basement unfortunately it would have been to long to get them raised.
ssh_agent 04-05-04, 04:59 AM	I feel i need to add to the above comments... the above "campaign" kirstar refers to was run by me. believe it or not, i run a low powered world ( balors?!?! low powered...are you crazy...just bare with me with this )...and this was some high level action in my campaign setting. the world has been running since 2nd Ed, and has a whole host of history. by limiting the levels of characters ( npc's ) in the setting, and makin characters who reach 12th level have to work there balls off to get there next levels ( even more so, than the mass of xp needed to normally progress )...ive created an interested world. the introduction of 3rd/3.5 Ed has needed some quirks to the world. Basically as it stood the only character in the world who could raise people from the dead...was the high priest ( i guess the pope ) of the main god of the pantheon. At some point along the campaign the pc's took him captive after a few sessions of trying to apprehend him. They had imprisoned him and held him hostage to halt war against the city they called home. among my originally world/campain idea(s), was the idea that if a god ( or power ) was going to grant his priest the power to raise someone from the dead...that the raised guy would rise up...influenced in someway b/to the power of this god. That makes perfect sense to me. This serves to add a minion/servant to the god , which perhaps the god would free him of this once a quest was done. Now as the DM and in the interests of keepin the campaign going the tanar'ri' raised the three captive pc's. The logic being that the three pc's capture were border line in there alignments as it was, and the raisin process would probally topple there sanity...and bring more the whole evil thing. Anyhooo, i adjusted there character sheets to show that there alignment was now Chaotic Evil. Two of the three pc's are very experienced roleplayers...and are more than capable of playin an influenced character. There was no need for them to throw tantrum's and give me back there sheets. The game was good fun for all, 3 of them got to play Evil guys with various struggles with there own sanity / reasoning for there actoins. While kirstar ( above ) tried to keep them in order and get them "cured". To add to the above...as time would have passed there alignment would have slipped back to the original, although obviously good roleplaying of a confused character...or perhaps some sort of atonement sort out...or questing would have resolved this. Now in summary, im in complete agreement that alignment does not dictate or restrict how you act...but i think you'll agree in the above scenario the CE aligmnent change was more of an influence...rather than an alignment. anyway enough of my blurb...