Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Barlo_Browns 01-17-07, 07:41 AM	Our group consists of a Lawful Good Exalted Human Paladin, a Neutral Good Exalted Human Rogue, a Chaotic Good Raptoran Cleric, and a Chaotic Neutral Human Sleight Mage (a custom-made class, similar to a mage-rogue, said player made). The Sleight Mage is a kleptomaniac. This is not good considering we have 2 (maybe 3) people who don't approve of stealing (though he doesn't steal from us). We have talked to him about it but it is unlikely he is going to change. Apparently, the moment we do anything resembling Mark of Justice on him he's going to charge straight into the cave of the nearest dragon. What should be done about this? He can't keep fooling our spot and listen checks forever, I think, and I'd definitely prefer to have 4 people.
interpretivechaos 01-17-07, 09:19 AM	Is he an actual kleptomanical (as in mental disorder compulsive thief)? If so, then your party can't really blame him, and he might be used to trying to hide it. Regardless, if your party feels indebted to him (he pulls his weight, helped save their lives in a couple encounters: things not too hard for an adventuring party to do), they might respect him while disagreeing with him and try to make ammends when they find out, paying for items, (maybe buying them off the offending character and returning them). If necessary dock his share of the treasure (with or without him knowing). This way, everyone's happy (he gets to steal, you get to be tolerant but ultimately good characters, NPCs get their stuff back, and party wealth remains the same).
AesirRaven 01-17-07, 12:59 PM	Sounds like a big ol' meta/out-of-game issue to me. He wants to steal no matter what, he doesn't want to be stopped by you playing your characters the way you designed them, and he's willing to commit character suicide to foil this. I think it's time for the DM Hammer. This guy's putting himself above everyone else's fun and is only thinking about being able to have his character commit theft with no repercussions. I'd say it's time for the DM to lay it out to him -- either he accepts the consequences of his actions, makes a new character who won't steal like that, or leaves the table so that he isn't interfering with the fun of the rest of the group.
Templetroll 01-17-07, 01:09 PM	If the mage doesnt steal from the party then he must steal from monsters lairs or from innocents along the way. Stealing from lairs is stealing from the party and stealing from innocents is trying to use the party to shield them from the consequences of their thieving and abusing the reputations of the exalted characters. The mage needs to be brought to justice, the kleptomania cured with a heal spell etc. If the player decides the character would suicide then cool; let it happen. If the player insists on stealing then you need to talk to the player or get him out of your game until you are all ready to play a rogue-friendly game.
Puca 01-17-07, 01:21 PM	Some character concepts just dont go together. While I personally loath the klepto-rogue concept, as it tends to annoy everyone else, the Exalted Paladin types are as much to blame. Basically, that players choices severely limit the type of other characters who can be a part of the party, and as such place an obviously unwanted restriction on the others. Let the rogue leave. Let the player make a new character that fits the party. Agree that next time, you will all work together to have characters that dont automatically exclude other players concepts.
Zherog 01-17-07, 01:25 PM	the moment we do anything resembling Mark of Justice on him he's going to charge straight into the cave of the nearest dragon. *shrug* Let him.
fatal error 01-17-07, 01:28 PM	There's no such thing as Kleptomania, it is properly called DEMONIC POSSESSION. The Rogue clearly needs to be exorcised of the particular Demon that is giving him this trouble, probably a Quasit or Baubau, and then he'll be fine. But seriously, throw him in the best jail you can find, if you want to be in character about it, and then have him roll up a new character that doesn't directly clash with the rest of the party. Furthermore, what does running into the nearest cave have to do with a Mark of Justice? Couldn't you tie him down, for his own good, to cast it?
CryoSilver 01-17-07, 01:32 PM	Hit the player with a folding chair and tell him to stop being a dick.
azardm 01-17-07, 02:30 PM	Our group consists of a Lawful Good Exalted Human Paladin, a Neutral Good Exalted Human Rogue, a Chaotic Good Raptoran Cleric, and a Chaotic Neutral Human Sleight Mage .... <emphasis mine> How does your party justify the Paladin traveling and mingling with a neutral character? Is that portion of the PHB houseruled out? If not, I'd say he (the Paladin) should either ask that the PC in question (the Sorcerer-ish) change his ways or the party should choose between the two of them. If it is I'd suggest the situation be played out to its logical conclusion in-game and let the individual PCs decide how they would deeal with the issue. Have a great game! AzarDM
chava 01-17-07, 02:41 PM	paladins cannot travel knowingly with evil by RAW - nothing about neutral, they just prefer traveling with like-minded individuals
DarkNick 01-17-07, 03:16 PM	The way I see it you have a few options you could consider. 1. You as characters get together and decide how to handle the problem character. This might include collectively ousting him from the party. 2. Let him commit suicide. Did you know that it is abusive behaviour to minipulate someone by threatening self harm (even if it is imaginary self harm)? Only way to deal with this aspect is to call his bluff. "Go ahead, we are not reponsible if you choose to do that" 3. Turn a blind eye. Play your characters with less rigidity for the sake of fun. 4. Talk to the DM about comming up with a solution. 5. Talk to him about the problem - "its not really working out, your character just rubs our characters the wrong way. What do you think we should do about it?" 6. Compromise. Tell him if he stops stealing so much you as players will not be so hard on him when he does. (a very tidy solution I rekon, every can end up happy as long as every one is willing to bend a little) 7. One option could be to start a new game where everyone can start on equal footing and make sure from the beginning that everyone is compatible. This saves face for the guy. He is not the only one forced to start again. No campaign is so precious that you can't ditch it and start again for the sake of a good gaming group. Whatever you do don't be confrontational about it. It just won't work. You will only back him into a corner and nothing will get resolved. Try not to get bogged down in the Paladin debate. People will want to talk your ear off about what a Paladin can and can't do. Just do what works for your group.
Novabomb 01-17-07, 07:07 PM	Hit the player with a folding chair and tell him to stop being a dick. Dude, your getting repetitive and boring. At least post a link when you right that comment. Additionally it should be reserved for the worst sort of player, this case does not qualify...yet. <emphasis mine> How does your party justify the Paladin traveling and mingling with a neutral character? Is that portion of the PHB houseruled out? If not, I'd say he (the Paladin) should either ask that the PC in question (the Sorcerer-ish) change his ways or the party should choose between the two of them. If it is I'd suggest the situation be played out to its logical conclusion in-game and let the individual PCs decide how they would deeal with the issue. Have a great game! AzarDM I suggest you re-read the PHB Palidin do not lose class features for assosiating with neutral people (which would just be stupid) they lose class features for associating with evil.
FntsyWlkr 01-18-07, 01:30 PM	Personally, I think it depends: Maybe he's stealing hair, rocks, feathers or things of no value. just for character flavor. If he's stealing stuff from the group, I say hack him in character. That's what would happen in real life. "You steal from me? I bust a 9 in yo skull!' Comment Directly linked to your question: Let him know that if you catch him stealing, your character will throw him in jail. And he may have to roll up another character.
Some_call_me_Tim 01-18-07, 03:42 PM	The Sleight Mage is a kleptomaniac. ... (though he doesn't steal from us). Then he isn't really a kleptomaniac if he can control himself and not steal from the party. It sounds like he is just using this little bit of role-playing to be a tool. I don't know about you, but I don't knowingly associate with tools, nor will I continue an association with someone who consistently offends my moral code; why should my character behave differently. Just because he is a member of 'the party' doesn't mean he should be treated any different than an NPC. An NPC that did that would probably be hacked to pieces, looted, and their body left for the vultures. If the player can't see that there is no in-character reason for the party to accept his character's shenanigans then the same should happen to him. :P
owlkeeper 01-18-07, 04:21 PM	You said the other members of the party keep failing checks whenever he steals. So the way I see it, the rest of the party doesn't know about the thief they're traveling with! I don't see why any special actions should be taken. If he gets caught with his hand in a cookie jar whist traveling with an exalted paladin, well then, I think the exalted would just bring him to justice, no questions asked. Furthermore, why would the paladin care if a thief wishes to seek refuge in a dragon's den: Justice is done for him the natural, druid approved, way.
Puca 01-18-07, 04:35 PM	You know, I said before: I hate the klepto-rogue. This character concept might be new to the player, but the rest of us have seen it before and it is nearly always an irritant. But in principle, the rogue is not automatically in the wrong here. The Exalted players, especially the Paladin by the nature of his rigid code, are as much a part of the problem. In choosing to play such characters, those players have basically limited the types of characters the other players can create. As the result of the choices of one or two players, all the rest have to be good, or at least behave good at all times, and “respect legitimate authority and act with honor,” code for acting “non-chaotic.” If they do not, the Exalted Paladin has to kill you, see you imprisoned, or at least leave the party. Klepto-rogues deserve a smack down, but in principle, players who want characters whose power is affected by the morals and the behavior of the rest of the party should have discussed this and gotten some consensus at character creation. If they did this, kill the klepto. If not, they are as much to blame for this conflict as his player is.
SneakyPetey 01-18-07, 05:01 PM	You know, I said before: I hate the klepto-rogue. This character concept might be new to the player, but the rest of us have seen it before and it is nearly always an irritant. But in principle, the rogue is not automatically in the wrong here. The Exalted players, especially the Paladin by the nature of his rigid code, are as much a part of the problem. In choosing to play such characters, those players have basically limited the types of characters the other players can create. [snip] ...And this is why I think you should discuss this problem with your DM. A good DM should know that you can't just slap together a party with just any characters (and alignments) and expect things to work out. The DM should not have allowed the party make-up to include a paladin and a CN rogue. As a player I ran into the exact same situation. The DM asked what I wanted to play (this was a 2e campaign) and I said "A paladin, unless it doesn't jive with the other players' choices. I don't want to be the party 'stick in the mud.' Otherwise, I'll be more than happy playing a fighter/mage" Well, apparently the DM thought inter-party strife was amusing, so he let me take the paladin even though there were three CN characters in the party! :doh: We gutted the campaign out for a while, but it wasn't long before things got ugly. I don't want to get into details, but it was the single most unpleasant gaming experience I've ever had. :yuck: At one point, I sent an email a day to the DM begging him to let me doff the paladin and roll-up a new character. He never let me do it, and eventually removed himself from the group for an unrelated incident which will not be discussed here. But I digress... If I were you I would have a talk with the other players and the DM and figure out who will roll up a new character in order to get the party composition to a happier place. I hope this helps, have good gaming! :D
danielinthewolvesden 01-18-07, 11:26 PM	1. This seems to be more of an OOC problem than an IC problem. Sit down with the player and discuss it like adults. 2. If that does not work, or you do not want to try it, then there is this: Have the Good Pc's tell the CN PC "hey Buddy, it's been nice but you don't seem to fit in with us very well. We think you'd be happier with anothe rgroup. So, we are leaving now, and you'r enot coming with us. Good by and good luck". PS- the DM shouldn't have forced you guys to play with that PC in the first place.