Help settle a disagreement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help settle a disagreement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Worguron
10-05-05, 01:47 AM Can someone on here help me settle an argument between a friend and I regarding Skill Mastery.

He maintains that skills such as Spot, Listen, Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, etc. cannot be used with Skill Mastery.

I on the other hand maintain that the only skill that cannot be used with Skill Mastery is UMD because it is the only skill that specifically says you can't take 10 with it.
Lord Gwydion
10-05-05, 02:33 AM IIRC, there's nothing in the rules that prevent any of the skills from benefiting from Skill Mastery, as long as it's a skill with which you can take 10.

As you mentioned, UMD doesn't allow a Take 10 ever, even under non-stressed situations, so that's out. Knowledge Checks (with the no re-roll, you know it or you don't rule, even though you can take 10 on the check) also may not be allowed, but then no one I know of has ever tried to apply Skill Mastery to a Knowledge skill.

NPCs such as guards take 10 on Listen and Spot checks by default when they are "on lookout." It's easier for the DM to have a set DC for the players' stealth attempts than rolling all the time for every guard that might see or hear the character. So those skills can definitely benefit from Skill Mastery.

Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Bluff are a little trickier, but as long as the time to use the ability, I don't see why it would hurt. A Rogue with Skill Mastery in Bluff would be both an expert at lying, and a good feinter in combat. Giving the benefits to Diplomacy and/or Sense Motive mean the character is particulary adept at smoothing ruffled feathers and reading others.

Anyway, IMO the ability to always take 10 on a skill is nice because it makes dramatic failures unlikely, but it won't do much good in those situations where only a dramatic success will prevail (roll of natural 15+), since you're only hitting the average for a character of your level of training. It's not some all-powerful ability that means you'll never fail a skill roll of that type again.
Tiran
10-05-05, 02:35 AM well I don't see why you couldn't, but why would you want to. Those skills depend on rolling high.
SnowbearK
10-05-05, 02:44 AM As you mentioned, UMD doesn't allow a Take 10 ever, even under non-stressed situations, so that's out.

Just a quick note, Warlocks of at least 4th level CAN take 10 on UMD.
Draco Strang
10-05-05, 11:47 AM Skill mastery can be applied to all of those.

From the SRD:

Skill Mastery
The rogue becomes so certain in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions.

Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A rogue may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for it to apply to each time.

I don't see anything restricting the skills you can select (save UMD).

Good luck.
DragonDeadite
10-05-05, 05:15 PM I really don't see any reason for not getting Skill Mastery on those skills. If you focus your abilities in that area then why wouldn't you be able to be better at it than normal? Seems kinda silly to me to not be able to take SM in those skills... What are his reasonings?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Worguron 10-05-05, 01:47 AM	Can someone on here help me settle an argument between a friend and I regarding Skill Mastery. He maintains that skills such as Spot, Listen, Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, etc. cannot be used with Skill Mastery. I on the other hand maintain that the only skill that cannot be used with Skill Mastery is UMD because it is the only skill that specifically says you can't take 10 with it.
Lord Gwydion 10-05-05, 02:33 AM	IIRC, there's nothing in the rules that prevent any of the skills from benefiting from Skill Mastery, as long as it's a skill with which you can take 10. As you mentioned, UMD doesn't allow a Take 10 ever, even under non-stressed situations, so that's out. Knowledge Checks (with the no re-roll, you know it or you don't rule, even though you can take 10 on the check) also may not be allowed, but then no one I know of has ever tried to apply Skill Mastery to a Knowledge skill. NPCs such as guards take 10 on Listen and Spot checks by default when they are "on lookout." It's easier for the DM to have a set DC for the players' stealth attempts than rolling all the time for every guard that might see or hear the character. So those skills can definitely benefit from Skill Mastery. Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Bluff are a little trickier, but as long as the time to use the ability, I don't see why it would hurt. A Rogue with Skill Mastery in Bluff would be both an expert at lying, and a good feinter in combat. Giving the benefits to Diplomacy and/or Sense Motive mean the character is particulary adept at smoothing ruffled feathers and reading others. Anyway, IMO the ability to always take 10 on a skill is nice because it makes dramatic failures unlikely, but it won't do much good in those situations where only a dramatic success will prevail (roll of natural 15+), since you're only hitting the average for a character of your level of training. It's not some all-powerful ability that means you'll never fail a skill roll of that type again.
Tiran 10-05-05, 02:35 AM	well I don't see why you couldn't, but why would you want to. Those skills depend on rolling high.
SnowbearK 10-05-05, 02:44 AM	As you mentioned, UMD doesn't allow a Take 10 ever, even under non-stressed situations, so that's out. Just a quick note, Warlocks of at least 4th level CAN take 10 on UMD.
Draco Strang 10-05-05, 11:47 AM	Skill mastery can be applied to all of those. From the SRD: Skill Mastery The rogue becomes so certain in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A rogue may gain this special ability multiple times, selecting additional skills for it to apply to each time. I don't see anything restricting the skills you can select (save UMD). Good luck.
DragonDeadite 10-05-05, 05:15 PM	I really don't see any reason for not getting Skill Mastery on those skills. If you focus your abilities in that area then why wouldn't you be able to be better at it than normal? Seems kinda silly to me to not be able to take SM in those skills... What are his reasonings?