Help! Why a Necromancer ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help! Why a Necromancer ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arthur_Pendragon
04-02-04, 12:20 PM I'm playing a PC in our upcoming campaign (see note in sig for reference), and while I ussually play general wizards, and we are playing a vile evil game, I decided I wanted to play a classic evil necromancer, something I tried to do once but that campaign fell apart so I didn't get to try it out for any length of time.

However, I'm struggling on how to roleplay and build (in terms of game mechanics) a necromancer that will make me happy. :(

I'm pursing this in some ways as a roleplaying challenge in that respect, but I need help shaping up the character into a form I like.

One thing I've never liked about necromancy is . . . well . . . gore. The power over souls, immortality (via Lichdom), and the biological effects of its magic (inflicting blindness and disease) have attracted me, but not the whole flesh eating ghouls or rotting zombies bit.

This made me lean toward some sort of "clean" necromancy, perhaps something like medical science. . . which is part of the reason why, as a DM, I've been thinking about setting the campaign in a human city during a time period similiar to the time period of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. And I was thinking about using his knowledge about phisology and medicine to have a cover identity as a physician who wants to build a hospital for the sick in this budding metropolis. (The hospital would become a base of opperations for the group).

However I felt if I wanted to use a setting like that, I felt like magic in a "Age of Reason" would simply become another kind of "science of magic" or a sub-science of physics. Which would (for me as a DM) take away from the "fantasy" feel of the world.

When I think of classic evil wizards (necromancers) I tend to think of villians like the evil sorcereress in Willow for example. But trouble is how to combine a feel like that with "clean" Necromancy?

Any suggestions on my difficulty. Because in part I want to perserve a "fantasy" feel to magic, but at the same time create a more "clean" medical type necromancy?
ehrin
04-02-04, 02:04 PM Why not stick with your basic idea, just not in Victorian Times?

Your necromancer can still run a hospital, still collect specimens, etc.. just do it in the medieval world. It makes sense that someone who wants to be "clean" of the gore aspect would set up a system to do the dirty work first (clean up the bodies, raid the graves, etc..). Your NM would simply be at the top of the food chain, per se, and walk in on clean bodies, well prepared, etc.. He doesn't care how the bodies get there, but once they do, he is all business.

Many medical schools hired grave robbers to do the dirty work, so can your guy. he can have a couple henchmen who in turn have henchmen, down to the undead/ghouls, etc.. Your NM is safely insulated from the dirty work beneath him.
Goblin-Crunch Cerial
04-02-04, 02:16 PM Take an example from a moderen day Sceintist. All things in the physical world can be observed, formulated and then used to make prections...
If you want a "Clean Necromancer" think along these lines:

Lawful Evil: A man obsessed with the total quantification of death magic. How do bodies die, what is a soul, can pain be converted into a formula? Even if he's not in a Victorian setting take it to that level... This is a fanatic for his magic...

Nuetral Evil: A wizard withou feeling. Mortals are nothing more than material for his experiments. How does the soul travel from a crushed vessel? The detached sorcerer who craves the unfeeling bliss of being a Lich.

Chaotic Evil: Good luck with this one... I hate Chaotic evil...
Arthur_Pendragon
04-02-04, 07:21 PM I'm not totally against the whole victorian type setting (which could be equally interesting). Indeed ehrin it was your very suggestions why I was leaning toward that time period. That was why I orginally had the idea of hospital.

If I follow that route, I still need to find a way to situate magic with in this "Age of Reason". I wanted to avoid turning it into a science, that removes the fantastic element from the game to a degree. :(

I thought about having magic be largely lost as superstitious nonsense as the "Age of Reason" dawn. But then that makes magical items difficult (not getting or making them but) becuase people would freak out it they saw someone weilding a flaming longsword or any magical items, not to mention casting spell publicly would cause all manner or problems. So I'm leaning against that angle.

Perhaps magic is not lost, just a little known science. But the trick is, if it is the science of raw power, why would it be little known?

Another Problem is why type of adventures to run (I'm not to great at making city adventures I think)?

Another problem is, where to take the campaign over archingly? I imagine him wanting to conquer some villiages and forge his own kingdom at high levels? *sigh* What to do?

To Goblin-Crunch Cerial: Yeah, I kinda already leaned toward LE (and your kind of description).

PS: Thanks for the suggestions so far, please keep them coming.
Arthur_Pendragon
04-02-04, 08:02 PM Actually the more I think about it the more I lean toward doing a more classic setting.

I get this image of eventually wanting to create a dark keep somewhere in a mist shrouded woods.

I thought about the idea of being very scientific in terms of preparation, tools used, etc. and even in his pursuit of necromantic knowledge (diliberate, catgorical, etc.) Yet not so science-like that it looses the fantasical aspect of magic. . . (this probably sounds very foolish reinterative, however, it just finally clicked in my mind a way to do what I want and keep the feel that I want, and it's hard to put down in words. Reading what's been suggested here, and writing the post itself, has helped alot.) Thanks guy! :)

My trouble is I think, now, more along the lines of what type of adventures to run as a DM. . . :(

Though perhaps I should post that on the What's a DM to Do? board.
Crossover-Chronicler
04-02-04, 09:21 PM You might shoot for Cleric (no deity, Knowledge/Death domains) instead of wizard.

A "clean" necromancer might be more interested in souls than meat and bone. That might even be his/her long-term goal: to transcend messy fleshy existence into a purely spiritual existence as an undead.

A "spiritual" necromancer might be more of a metaphysical philosopher than a doctor, and thus might rescue the "feel" of magic by immersing himself in the "Wonders of the Universe." Such a necromancer might be a spiritual medium, or someone obsessed with immortality or even godhood through power over the soul.

Also keep in mind that it a lot of ways technology developed because we don't have D&D style magic; why bother developing mass-transit when there are teleportation circles and flying carpets? A D&D-style "Victorian" setting might be more "high-magic" than "high-tech."
Remnant
04-02-04, 10:40 PM Ha! Excellent!

So, you run this "hospital", until you've got about 300 bodies. Then, separate the bone from the flesh, and put them in two great vats. Make a massive skeleton from the bone-paste, then coat it with the flesh goop from the flesh vat. Transfer your conciousness to the flesh collossus, and... uh... I think I missed the point.
ronyon
04-12-04, 03:17 PM I myself am playing a necromancer in a game set roughly in "1730s Europe".Havers Makebate is nuetral,something of a fop,and his only corporal undead is his bat familier.Mostly he uses divenation and a house ruled ability to talk to the dead to be something of a PI.
His partner is a cleric of Wealth and Celebraty(Merchant and Charm) who" believes it a sin to be poor and ugly".
Not only is he the face man (at least with the living)he is also the brains and the money...but i digress.What do I do?Well ,I track down missing peaple,my low hd ghosts (stillborn children) do recon and stake outs,I talk to dead and they give up info they would never give up alive, I cast the occasional curse,i liase with the local constabulary, and I write up wills.Some people dont like me but its nothing personal, lawyers are always veiwed with distrust...
As for clean, there is none cleaner.His ring "Havers Red Eye" is a gentlemans ring, which is to say it allows Prestidigitation at will.
Each body he intrerveiws is treated with respect-even thoseof his enimes.Prestidigitation cleans them,sews their wounds,chills thier flesh.Gauzy shrouds cover them(temporarily,Prestidigitation only lasts one hour).All are given a decent burial, and the right to dictate a will.He has yet to do any of the violence, and this noninvolvement makes the vanquished more trusting of him.Only once has he ever used his abilities to force a soul to speak.he did this regretfully.
He lives the good life of a bachlor professional,with a suit of rooms, an undead mage as his manservant, and a carrige at his beck and call.

He has yet to make a zombi.
He wears skulls only as his badge of office as a necromancer, and changes his clothing all the time, thanks to Havers Red Eye.
No sickles or sythes for him, just his gradfathers double barrled howda pistol,and a cane.
He repects the dead, knowing he will one day be among them,and thus he actually pays his man servant instead of controlling him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arthur_Pendragon 04-02-04, 12:20 PM	I'm playing a PC in our upcoming campaign (see note in sig for reference), and while I ussually play general wizards, and we are playing a vile evil game, I decided I wanted to play a classic evil necromancer, something I tried to do once but that campaign fell apart so I didn't get to try it out for any length of time. However, I'm struggling on how to roleplay and build (in terms of game mechanics) a necromancer that will make me happy. :( I'm pursing this in some ways as a roleplaying challenge in that respect, but I need help shaping up the character into a form I like. One thing I've never liked about necromancy is . . . well . . . gore. The power over souls, immortality (via Lichdom), and the biological effects of its magic (inflicting blindness and disease) have attracted me, but not the whole flesh eating ghouls or rotting zombies bit. This made me lean toward some sort of "clean" necromancy, perhaps something like medical science. . . which is part of the reason why, as a DM, I've been thinking about setting the campaign in a human city during a time period similiar to the time period of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. And I was thinking about using his knowledge about phisology and medicine to have a cover identity as a physician who wants to build a hospital for the sick in this budding metropolis. (The hospital would become a base of opperations for the group). However I felt if I wanted to use a setting like that, I felt like magic in a "Age of Reason" would simply become another kind of "science of magic" or a sub-science of physics. Which would (for me as a DM) take away from the "fantasy" feel of the world. When I think of classic evil wizards (necromancers) I tend to think of villians like the evil sorcereress in Willow for example. But trouble is how to combine a feel like that with "clean" Necromancy? Any suggestions on my difficulty. Because in part I want to perserve a "fantasy" feel to magic, but at the same time create a more "clean" medical type necromancy?
ehrin 04-02-04, 02:04 PM	Why not stick with your basic idea, just not in Victorian Times? Your necromancer can still run a hospital, still collect specimens, etc.. just do it in the medieval world. It makes sense that someone who wants to be "clean" of the gore aspect would set up a system to do the dirty work first (clean up the bodies, raid the graves, etc..). Your NM would simply be at the top of the food chain, per se, and walk in on clean bodies, well prepared, etc.. He doesn't care how the bodies get there, but once they do, he is all business. Many medical schools hired grave robbers to do the dirty work, so can your guy. he can have a couple henchmen who in turn have henchmen, down to the undead/ghouls, etc.. Your NM is safely insulated from the dirty work beneath him.
Goblin-Crunch Cerial 04-02-04, 02:16 PM	Take an example from a moderen day Sceintist. All things in the physical world can be observed, formulated and then used to make prections... If you want a "Clean Necromancer" think along these lines: Lawful Evil: A man obsessed with the total quantification of death magic. How do bodies die, what is a soul, can pain be converted into a formula? Even if he's not in a Victorian setting take it to that level... This is a fanatic for his magic... Nuetral Evil: A wizard withou feeling. Mortals are nothing more than material for his experiments. How does the soul travel from a crushed vessel? The detached sorcerer who craves the unfeeling bliss of being a Lich. Chaotic Evil: Good luck with this one... I hate Chaotic evil...
Arthur_Pendragon 04-02-04, 07:21 PM	I'm not totally against the whole victorian type setting (which could be equally interesting). Indeed ehrin it was your very suggestions why I was leaning toward that time period. That was why I orginally had the idea of hospital. If I follow that route, I still need to find a way to situate magic with in this "Age of Reason". I wanted to avoid turning it into a science, that removes the fantastic element from the game to a degree. :( I thought about having magic be largely lost as superstitious nonsense as the "Age of Reason" dawn. But then that makes magical items difficult (not getting or making them but) becuase people would freak out it they saw someone weilding a flaming longsword or any magical items, not to mention casting spell publicly would cause all manner or problems. So I'm leaning against that angle. Perhaps magic is not lost, just a little known science. But the trick is, if it is the science of raw power, why would it be little known? Another Problem is why type of adventures to run (I'm not to great at making city adventures I think)? Another problem is, where to take the campaign over archingly? I imagine him wanting to conquer some villiages and forge his own kingdom at high levels? sigh What to do? To Goblin-Crunch Cerial: Yeah, I kinda already leaned toward LE (and your kind of description). PS: Thanks for the suggestions so far, please keep them coming.
Arthur_Pendragon 04-02-04, 08:02 PM	Actually the more I think about it the more I lean toward doing a more classic setting. I get this image of eventually wanting to create a dark keep somewhere in a mist shrouded woods. I thought about the idea of being very scientific in terms of preparation, tools used, etc. and even in his pursuit of necromantic knowledge (diliberate, catgorical, etc.) Yet not so science-like that it looses the fantasical aspect of magic. . . (this probably sounds very foolish reinterative, however, it just finally clicked in my mind a way to do what I want and keep the feel that I want, and it's hard to put down in words. Reading what's been suggested here, and writing the post itself, has helped alot.) Thanks guy! :) My trouble is I think, now, more along the lines of what type of adventures to run as a DM. . . :( Though perhaps I should post that on the What's a DM to Do? board.
Crossover-Chronicler 04-02-04, 09:21 PM	You might shoot for Cleric (no deity, Knowledge/Death domains) instead of wizard. A "clean" necromancer might be more interested in souls than meat and bone. That might even be his/her long-term goal: to transcend messy fleshy existence into a purely spiritual existence as an undead. A "spiritual" necromancer might be more of a metaphysical philosopher than a doctor, and thus might rescue the "feel" of magic by immersing himself in the "Wonders of the Universe." Such a necromancer might be a spiritual medium, or someone obsessed with immortality or even godhood through power over the soul. Also keep in mind that it a lot of ways technology developed because we don't have D&D style magic; why bother developing mass-transit when there are teleportation circles and flying carpets? A D&D-style "Victorian" setting might be more "high-magic" than "high-tech."
Remnant 04-02-04, 10:40 PM	Ha! Excellent! So, you run this "hospital", until you've got about 300 bodies. Then, separate the bone from the flesh, and put them in two great vats. Make a massive skeleton from the bone-paste, then coat it with the flesh goop from the flesh vat. Transfer your conciousness to the flesh collossus, and... uh... I think I missed the point.
ronyon 04-12-04, 03:17 PM	I myself am playing a necromancer in a game set roughly in "1730s Europe".Havers Makebate is nuetral,something of a fop,and his only corporal undead is his bat familier.Mostly he uses divenation and a house ruled ability to talk to the dead to be something of a PI. His partner is a cleric of Wealth and Celebraty(Merchant and Charm) who" believes it a sin to be poor and ugly". Not only is he the face man (at least with the living)he is also the brains and the money...but i digress.What do I do?Well ,I track down missing peaple,my low hd ghosts (stillborn children) do recon and stake outs,I talk to dead and they give up info they would never give up alive, I cast the occasional curse,i liase with the local constabulary, and I write up wills.Some people dont like me but its nothing personal, lawyers are always veiwed with distrust... As for clean, there is none cleaner.His ring "Havers Red Eye" is a gentlemans ring, which is to say it allows Prestidigitation at will. Each body he intrerveiws is treated with respect-even thoseof his enimes.Prestidigitation cleans them,sews their wounds,chills thier flesh.Gauzy shrouds cover them(temporarily,Prestidigitation only lasts one hour).All are given a decent burial, and the right to dictate a will.He has yet to do any of the violence, and this noninvolvement makes the vanquished more trusting of him.Only once has he ever used his abilities to force a soul to speak.he did this regretfully. He lives the good life of a bachlor professional,with a suit of rooms, an undead mage as his manservant, and a carrige at his beck and call. He has yet to make a zombi. He wears skulls only as his badge of office as a necromancer, and changes his clothing all the time, thanks to Havers Red Eye. No sickles or sythes for him, just his gradfathers double barrled howda pistol,and a cane. He repects the dead, knowing he will one day be among them,and thus he actually pays his man servant instead of controlling him.