Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tlalocbyu 07-13-07, 11:31 AM	I haven't played a Dungeons and Dragons character in over ten years, and have only DM'd a few half-hearted campaigns in that same timeframe. However, I recently got in contact with a local DM (a retiree who has been playing the game since its earliest "Chainmail" incarnation) and it looks like I may be playing again soon. I'm familiar with Third Edition Rules (and 3.5, as well) but I'm worried about putting form (character concepts, ideals, goals) before substance (optimization, numbers, etc). Am I gimping myself with the following character concept/build? Rules: Core Only (PHB, DMG, MM) + Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Attributes: 18, 16, 15, 12, 12, 10 Pre-Concepts: I want to play something I've never played before, so I'm leaning towared Cleric I don't want to play the steretypical heavy armor-mace-sheild cleric I want to play a Cleric of a lesser-known deitiy I've never played a caster class before, so I'm leaning towards a more martial build, so as to make the transition easier. However, I am open to rethinking this position. Concept: I'm currently looking at a Cleric of Anhur, with perhaps a single level of Barbarian mixed in. For domains: War and Storm. He would wear medium armor, use a falchion (a two-handed curved sword with mediocre damage but a great crit range), and focus on feats that improve speed or manuverability, perhaps starting with Lightning Reflexes and Improved Initiative (part of his veneration of the fury of a desert storm). Why I'm Worried about the Build: First: I'm not convinced that storm is really all that useful of a domain (although I really like the flavor). As a Cleric of Horus-Re, I could choose Retribution and/or Nobility, both of which seem to be more useful than Storm, but I don't like the feel of the deity as much as I like Anhur. Second: As a Cleric of a War God, my top three stats will probably be in Str, Con, and Wis (in some order). That would leave my Dex at 12. With medium armor and a two-handed sword that leaves me shieldless, my AC won't be all that great. Any general or specific advice for me in building this character? Should I be worried about building a character who has a really neat concept but is less than optimized? Thanks for any help.
Matthew77 07-13-07, 12:15 PM	Sounds like a great character to me! When I first started reading, I thought you were going to end up doing Cleric-Archer, but Cleric-Barbarian should be fine. The only time I might worry is if the other players are strong optimizers, and the DM is expecting the party to have a very high power level. Even then, melee Clerics are inherently strong characters, and bring a lot of useful spells to the party in addition to their combat prowess. I wouldn't worry too much about the low AC issue. You should have the HP and offensive power that it won't be much of a problem. You might end up being the first character to hit the ground, but as long as you deal enough damage before you go down, the rest of the party can mop up. If you are the only character with any healing ability, that would be a concern, but as long as someone else has enough healing to get you conscious (even the heal skill will work) you can then heal yourself. Lots of Cleric buffs will be helpful for this build, Shield of Faith, Divine Favor, Magic weapon all leap to mind. I like to keep a protection from evil prepared, and use it as an emergency measure if someone gets charmed or dominated. In battle, I would try to cast one buff spell, then charge into the fray. More than one round buffing wastes too much time. You didn't say what level the campaign is starting at, but if you have enough feats the old classic of powerattack and cleave would work well. Also Extra rage if you do take the level of Barbarian (is that in the allowed books?) I don't know what is available in the Forgotten realms books, but I like to pick one feat that gives me an alternate use for my turn undead attempts. They are a free resource so if you can convert them into a combat benefit or healing for the party or something, that would be great. (my current favorites are Divine Vigor, and Sacred Healing, but those are not core feat) Skillwise, maxing out the heal skill and always carrying bandages so you can do long-term care makes other party members less upset about your lack of focus on healing spells. I often tell the party that I'll use healing spells to save a dying character, but for routine recovery I won't use spells. If I was you, I would introduce myself to the party as a "warrior of the storms" or a "champion of Anhur" instead of as a Cleric, just to avoid the "you must stand in the back and heal us" assumptions that some people have about Clerics.
landadmiral 07-13-07, 12:46 PM	1- Go with Anhur as your diety. 2- Take War and Strength as your domains and run with it As you look into strength, you'll find that your domain spells revolve around enlarge person, bulls strength, and righteous might. You'll get weapon focus as a free feat with the falchion b/c of War domain. Then, with enlargement from the strength domain, you'll gain reach and increased damage with the sword because it also enlarges 1 size catagory. Feats will be your flavor. Power attack/Cleaving battle cleric? How about a whirlwind battle cleric with reach? Or a quickened caster to get multiple strength buffs in a single round? But, just for fun, you could also enlarge the main tank of the party and watch the chaos ensue. For some real fun, take a closer look into how far you can buff up your strength by time you hit 20. Right now my lvl 10 dwarven battle cleric has his base strength of 20 and can enlarge himself and have his strength boosted above 30 in 1 round, above 40 strength if he uses the Strength domain ability to increase his strength for 1 round. Check out the online comic OOTS to see enlarged concept http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0427.html http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html
BW0222 07-13-07, 01:17 PM	tlalocbyu, Nothing wrong with the character build. Clerics have a lot of spells to buff AC. Nothing says you can't cast shield of faith, protection from evil, or cat's grace on yourself prior to combat. A few issues with any melee cleric I'll bring up. The cleric's optimal duty is typically spell casting -- either defensive, buffs, or healing as the combat goes on. This is at odds with a melee cleric, since you don't want to spent more than a round buffing once combat starts, and once in melee your ability to heal others is an issue. In a typical combat, folks will be taking damage at rates at which you'll need to be healing every round after a few rounds of combat. As such... a) Look for longer lasting buff and defensive spells you can cast on folks prior to combat. Consider extended spell, carrying lots of scrolls, wands, etc. Buff others repeatedly prior to opening doors -- since if you can't heal them later, you can at least give everyone cat's grace or shield of faith to reduce the damage they will be taking. b) Make sure others are aware of your build and to not expect healing during the combat. c) Try some better scouting. Listening at doors, sending a rogue ahead, etc. This gives you some idea of when combat is coming up making wasted buffing less of an issue. d) Take silence spell and let the rogue block the passage ahead so that they can't hear you buffing all the time. e) Work with your other casters and take a lot more miscellaneous spells of use outside of combat. Detect magic, comprehend languages, locate object, etc. This lets them focus more on their combat spells, getting the combat over with quicker. Ask your wizards to take some more defensives spells -- such as blur, displacement, etc. and use them in combat to cut down on the immediate need for healing. Tell them not to forget you also. Invest in a wand of displacement for your bard or wizard. f) Encourage your other casts to take a few 'delaying' type spells -- web, summonings, etc. to buy you an extra couple of rounds to buff folks at the beginning of combat. g) Look at taking brew potion so you can give lots of healing potions to others so that they can heal themselves. Make sure your bard, druid, ranger, paladin, etc. have wands or scrolls of cure light (and/or cure moderate wounds). h) Encourage others to buy potions of blur, displacement, and other defensive spells and use them in most serious combats. Take a few for yourself. i) Although dangerous in melee, consider shield other for another front-line fighter. k) At higher levels, look at the mass healing spells, imbune with spell ability, etc. such that others can be healed from a distance. l) Take skill focus (concentration) and/or combat casting, and do expect the need to heal both yourself and others. You might consider dodge and mobility also. Stay close to your other front-line fighter. m) Take a few "delaying" type spells in case combat goes badly. Darkness, obscuring mist, fog cloud, etc. When others are seriously injured you can toss up one of these while they move back, drink potions, etc. n) Do expect that around 8th+ levels that you'll reach a point at which in many combats your only choice will be to be healing almost all the time. Although it might look great to charge the frost giants with your two handed sword, they'll be dropping PCs in two rounds if you aren't putting cure critical wounds into them almost all the time. Monsters will be dishing out damage so quickly that potions, wands, and scrolls just won't cut it. o) Invest heavily in your AC.
landadmiral 07-13-07, 02:08 PM	BW has some good points, such as spending every round healing and not being the focus of attention fromt he enemy. But if not mistaken, you want to do a more melee oriented cleric. Great, still go with the battle cleric build. At low levels you'll have the fun going melee while learning the healing roles of a cleric - then later levels you can mold more into the typical party cleric. Hey, there is nothing stopping you from using the buffs on your main tank instead of yourself...as mentioned earlier by my chaos comment. Here are a couple of experiences in my encounters - *As cleric healing the party I was targeted as the largest threat. To the detriment of the monsters, I could fight back as effectively as the warrior. *Once I went in as main tank all buffed (party at the time was a bard, wizard, rogue and myself). The monsters were dealing so much damage, I spent more than half my time healing myself just to live instead of fighting back...which meant the wizard and rogue did the killing while i was a meat shield.
tlalocbyu 07-13-07, 02:39 PM	Thanks for the replies, everyone. I'm feeling much better about this build. And thanks also for all the tips on battle strategies. Since I've never played a cleric before, I was a little unsure on the best way to divide my time between buffing, fighting, and healing. Your posts have helped to clarify that for me.