Help with a Half-Dragon Werewolf Warlock...CG [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with a Half-Dragon Werewolf Warlock...CG [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
uglykitten
07-19-07, 06:17 PM Half half dragon werewolf warlock monk, actaully. This is an extremely high stakes game, so I'm not worried about the LA too much. However, I'm having trouble with the warlock class. I know his eldritch blast is a spell-like ability, as is his first least invocation, hideous blow. But I'm having trouble with finding how many times a day he can use these abilities. I've been scouring over the class description for a couple hours now, and it seems like I just can't find it. T_T

Plus, I'm having some trouble determing what to do with the excess skill points. By the rules I have houseruled, characters get skill points for both racial hit dice and then for their character dice. (Most of the time that means very little, but now it means...a little much.)

With him gaining skill points as a half-dragon, he gets somewhere around 280 for the three racial hit dice, in addition to 24 for warlock and 32 for monk. He also gets two feats besides. The other houserule states that you can trade 3 skill points to get full languages from the start, and 10 skill points for an extra bonus feat. After maxing out skill points for every last skill on the list (including cross-class) he still has somewhere around 190 skill points left. This is going to be a highly skilled character as it is...

Since it is a female and chaotic good (natural lycanthrope half dragon), I'm having trouble coming up with a decent backstory for her. (The reason I keep saying "him" is because my baby brother is going to be playing her, I'm solo DMing him.) He is young, so I'm handfeeding DnD to him for now, but I got carried away and told him he could play "anything." ^^; Me n my big mouth.
Fatalis_902
07-19-07, 06:40 PM Okay, uh, what, again?

Half half dragon werewolf warlock monk, actaully. This is an extremely high stakes game, so I'm not worried about the LA too much. However, I'm having trouble with the warlock class. I know his eldritch blast is a spell-like ability, as is his first least invocation, hideous blow. But I'm having trouble with finding how many times a day he can use these abilities. I've been scouring over the class description for a couple hours now, and it seems like I just can't find it. T_T
They are at will abilities. A warlock can use his eldritch blast as many times per day as he likes. I once did some math, and, assuming a 24-hour day, that's something like 3,538 times in one day. But I digress. Additionally, a monk must be lawful, unless it is a chaos monk, or you have done away with that alignment restriction. Also, is this just a multiclass character, or is it gestalt?

Plus, I'm having some trouble determing what to do with the excess skill points. By the rules I have houseruled, characters get skill points for both racial hit dice and then for their character dice. (Most of the time that means very little, but now it means...a little much.)
What do you mean, "house-ruled"? Characters always gain skill points for racial hit dice. Check your monster manual.

With him gaining skill points as a half-dragon, he gets somewhere around 280 for the three racial hit dice, in addition to 24 for warlock and 32 for monk. He also gets two feats besides. The other houserule states that you can trade 3 skill points to get full languages from the start, and 10 skill points for an extra bonus feat. After maxing out skill points for every last skill on the list (including cross-class) he still has somewhere around 190 skill points left. This is going to be a highly skilled character as it is...
280 from where? Half-dragons have no racial hit dice. They only have level adjustment. Level Adjustment (LA) only increases a character's Effective Character Level (ECL), not hit dice, skill points, feats, BAB, or the like. Even if Half-dragons did have racial hit dice, three would not translate to 280 skill points. I don't know what monster manual you're reading, but nothing in the 3.5 one gains ~46 skill points per hit die. Were-wolves have 2 racial hitdice, and gain skill points as (I believe) animals for those hit dice. This means that those skill points can only be applied to the list of animal class skills, and only amount to 2+Int mod per hit die, x4 at first level.

Since it is a female and chaotic good (natural lycanthrope half dragon), I'm having trouble coming up with a decent backstory for her. (The reason I keep saying "him" is because my baby brother is going to be playing her, I'm solo DMing him.) He is young, so I'm handfeeding DnD to him for now, but I got carried away and told him he could play "anything." ^^; Me n my big mouth.
Some good places to start would be, "What is her base race?" Human, elf, dwarf, halfling, etc. Additionally, "What kind of dragon parent does she have?" Judging by her alignment, I'm guessing Brass or Copper, but based on her heritage, White, Green, and Black pop into my mind.

If you want my honest opinion on this character, scrap it, scrap your solo-campaign, read the core books, COVER TO COVER, and then and only then try to run a solo game. And when you do, your brother will be restricted to Player's Handbook races and classes, and the campaign will be restricted to core only.
Turel
07-20-07, 12:56 AM All invocations and spell like abilities, unless stated otherwise, are a std action.
so you cant use your hideous blow and THEN blast them.
If my nose is correct, and you are trying to find a way to use Hideous Blow more than once, look up "expert tactician" in the 3.0 sword and fist (also in Song and Silence 3.0).
vineyard
07-20-07, 11:25 AM aside from the insane houserules (3 skill points to get full languages? really, that is just ignorant) the character concept is fully unsound for a newbie. for that matter it seems like a bad character to DM, especially as it seems as though you arent really that put together in that department. sorry to be harsh but damn man.
and to be honest the whole thing sounds almost made up.
Rederik
07-20-07, 12:20 PM From SRD:

Lycanthropes are humanoids or giants who can transform themselves into animals.

Half-Dragon
The creature’s type changes to dragon. Size is unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves.

So, a half-dragon can not be a werewolf.
forsaken1111
07-20-07, 02:55 PM From SRD:

Lycanthropes are humanoids or giants who can transform themselves into animals.

Half-Dragon
The creature’s type changes to dragon. Size is unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves.

So, a half-dragon can not be a werewolf.

Yep, he's correct. You CANNOT add the were-creature template to a half-dragon.

Besides, why would you? The LA from half-dragon is already high, stacking were on top would make an unplayable character who cannot even deal with even CR encounters. Its a silly concept.
Phrennzy
07-20-07, 03:53 PM Half half dragon werewolf warlock monk, actaully.

I say we take off and nuke the place from orbit - it's the only way to be sure.
Bortas
07-24-07, 11:06 PM From SRD:

Lycanthropes are humanoids or giants who can transform themselves into animals.

Half-Dragon
The creature’s type changes to dragon. Size is unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves.

So, a half-dragon can not be a werewolf.

Actually the Savage Species book on pg. 144 states that a Lycanthrope and a Dragon could produce a Half-Dragon/Lycanthrope.
forsaken1111
07-25-07, 12:44 AM Actually the Savage Species book on pg. 144 states that a Lycanthrope and a Dragon could produce a Half-Dragon/Lycanthrope.

Foiled again!
jagggar
07-25-07, 03:17 PM It is not possible handfeed someone new to the game a 9th ECL character if you plan on not choking him.

I pulled out the puppy-dog eyes and was able to convince my first DM to let me play a half-fiend.

I wish he had said no.
(Threw off game balance and he bsed other bonuses to make the others feel special,)

Apologize to your brother and tell him you meant he could play any 1st level character.*

*While it is technicly possible to play this character from first level with the right sources, that you were giving the character racial HD for being a half-dragon shows that you aren't familiar enough with the game yet to do so.
snakeman830
07-26-07, 01:23 PM 280 from where? Half-dragons have no racial hit dice. They only have level adjustment. Level Adjustment (LA) only increases a character's Effective Character Level (ECL), not hit dice, skill points, feats, BAB, or the like. Even if Half-dragons did have racial hit dice, three would not translate to 280 skill points. I don't know what monster manual you're reading, but nothing in the 3.5 one gains ~46 skill points per hit die. Were-wolves have 2 racial hitdice, and gain skill points as (I believe) animals for those hit dice. This means that those skill points can only be applied to the list of animal class skills, and only amount to 2+Int mod per hit die, x4 at first level.

Half-Dragon alters these HD. They increase to D10's and they get 6+Int modifier skill points instead of the normal 2 + Int modifier.

For the whole "Half-dragons cannot be werewolves" argument. That is true. However, a werewolf (natural only) can be a half-dragon.
mearrin69
07-27-07, 03:49 AM I say we take off and nuke the place from orbit - it's the only way to be sure.

I'm with Phrennzy on this one.

Core is probably easier to get your brother started with. Work up to the really crazy five-halves make a whole (with an undead lycanthrope neo-elemental template) stuff after he gets the hang of the game. The Fighter 2/Monk 1/Rogue 1/Ranger 2/Hexblade 3/Pirate 1/Zombie 1/Robot 1/Ninja 1 thing is also probably best reserved for people who are comfortable and want to experiment with *extreme*. Seems like a lot of people start with this stuff and I suppose it's natural to want to push the limits - but if you push them from the start there's nowhere to go but even crazier. YMMV though.
M
dknight100
07-27-07, 03:55 AM I say we take off and nuke the place from orbit - it's the only way to be sure.

:rofl:

phrennzy, we need you to post more, you're so succinct.
Callista
07-27-07, 07:42 AM I think you should start him out as just a warlock. If he wants monkish flavor, he can take unarmed combat feats. You might also consider a dragon bloodline, from Unearthed Arcana. (If you give everyone a bloodline for free--that is, without taking "bloodline levels"--you will keep the game balanced. My DM did this. Just be sure to remember everyone's true ECL when you put them up against monsters, or they will win too easily.) That's about the simplest way I can think of to get the flavor he wants, without all this LA and complications. Point out that being human would give him that extra feat--which he can use for unarmed combat. This isn't optimized for a warlock, but it's way better than what you'd have if you let him play that mess of a monster of a character...

If you go ahead with your plan, it'll be like you're trying to teach him to play the violin--using something it'd take a master a year to learn. It'd only frustrate him and you--it seems like this build is at the edge of your capacity, and way out of his reach, to make playable. Both of you need more practice. (That is not a bad thing. I don't know whether I could make that build workable, myself, and I've played for three years now.)

When you teach someone to play the violin, you start with scales and simple songs. When you teach someone D&D, you start with simple classes. He has to learn the mechanics before you do anything fancy--and there are ways to give him that "cool factor" he's looking for without doing something mechanically complicated.

Regarding Eldritch Blast: Just think of it as a magical crossbow with unlimited ammunition. He can use it anytime he wants.
Fatalis_902
07-27-07, 05:12 PM Half-Dragon alters these HD. They increase to D10's and they get 6+Int modifier skill points instead of the normal 2 + Int modifier.

Dragons have d12 hit dice, for the record. You're right about all else, though. My mistake.

EDIT: He still doesn't get 280 skill points, though.
Caelic
07-28-07, 11:31 AM Half-Dragon alters these HD. They increase to D10's and they get 6+Int modifier skill points instead of the normal 2 + Int modifier.

That still leaves the question of how you managed to come up with 280 skill points from 2 racial hit dice.
snakeman830
07-28-07, 11:40 AM Dragons have d12 hit dice, for the record. You're right about all else, though. My mistake.

EDIT: He still doesn't get 280 skill points, though.

Yes. Dragons have D12 HD. The Half-Dragon template, however, increases the racial HD by 1 size (to a maximum of D12). Thus, the normal D8 HD are now D10's.

I agree that the skill points shouldn't be anywhere near that high, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
uglykitten 07-19-07, 06:17 PM	Half half dragon werewolf warlock monk, actaully. This is an extremely high stakes game, so I'm not worried about the LA too much. However, I'm having trouble with the warlock class. I know his eldritch blast is a spell-like ability, as is his first least invocation, hideous blow. But I'm having trouble with finding how many times a day he can use these abilities. I've been scouring over the class description for a couple hours now, and it seems like I just can't find it. T_T Plus, I'm having some trouble determing what to do with the excess skill points. By the rules I have houseruled, characters get skill points for both racial hit dice and then for their character dice. (Most of the time that means very little, but now it means...a little much.) With him gaining skill points as a half-dragon, he gets somewhere around 280 for the three racial hit dice, in addition to 24 for warlock and 32 for monk. He also gets two feats besides. The other houserule states that you can trade 3 skill points to get full languages from the start, and 10 skill points for an extra bonus feat. After maxing out skill points for every last skill on the list (including cross-class) he still has somewhere around 190 skill points left. This is going to be a highly skilled character as it is... Since it is a female and chaotic good (natural lycanthrope half dragon), I'm having trouble coming up with a decent backstory for her. (The reason I keep saying "him" is because my baby brother is going to be playing her, I'm solo DMing him.) He is young, so I'm handfeeding DnD to him for now, but I got carried away and told him he could play "anything." ^^; Me n my big mouth.
Fatalis_902 07-19-07, 06:40 PM	Okay, uh, what, again? Half half dragon werewolf warlock monk, actaully. This is an extremely high stakes game, so I'm not worried about the LA too much. However, I'm having trouble with the warlock class. I know his eldritch blast is a spell-like ability, as is his first least invocation, hideous blow. But I'm having trouble with finding how many times a day he can use these abilities. I've been scouring over the class description for a couple hours now, and it seems like I just can't find it. T_T They are at will abilities. A warlock can use his eldritch blast as many times per day as he likes. I once did some math, and, assuming a 24-hour day, that's something like 3,538 times in one day. But I digress. Additionally, a monk must be lawful, unless it is a chaos monk, or you have done away with that alignment restriction. Also, is this just a multiclass character, or is it gestalt? Plus, I'm having some trouble determing what to do with the excess skill points. By the rules I have houseruled, characters get skill points for both racial hit dice and then for their character dice. (Most of the time that means very little, but now it means...a little much.) What do you mean, "house-ruled"? Characters always gain skill points for racial hit dice. Check your monster manual. With him gaining skill points as a half-dragon, he gets somewhere around 280 for the three racial hit dice, in addition to 24 for warlock and 32 for monk. He also gets two feats besides. The other houserule states that you can trade 3 skill points to get full languages from the start, and 10 skill points for an extra bonus feat. After maxing out skill points for every last skill on the list (including cross-class) he still has somewhere around 190 skill points left. This is going to be a highly skilled character as it is... 280 from where? Half-dragons have no racial hit dice. They only have level adjustment. Level Adjustment (LA) only increases a character's Effective Character Level (ECL), not hit dice, skill points, feats, BAB, or the like. Even if Half-dragons did have racial hit dice, three would not translate to 280 skill points. I don't know what monster manual you're reading, but nothing in the 3.5 one gains ~46 skill points per hit die. Were-wolves have 2 racial hitdice, and gain skill points as (I believe) animals for those hit dice. This means that those skill points can only be applied to the list of animal class skills, and only amount to 2+Int mod per hit die, x4 at first level. Since it is a female and chaotic good (natural lycanthrope half dragon), I'm having trouble coming up with a decent backstory for her. (The reason I keep saying "him" is because my baby brother is going to be playing her, I'm solo DMing him.) He is young, so I'm handfeeding DnD to him for now, but I got carried away and told him he could play "anything." ^^; Me n my big mouth. Some good places to start would be, "What is her base race?" Human, elf, dwarf, halfling, etc. Additionally, "What kind of dragon parent does she have?" Judging by her alignment, I'm guessing Brass or Copper, but based on her heritage, White, Green, and Black pop into my mind. If you want my honest opinion on this character, scrap it, scrap your solo-campaign, read the core books, COVER TO COVER, and then and only then try to run a solo game. And when you do, your brother will be restricted to Player's Handbook races and classes, and the campaign will be restricted to core only.
Turel 07-20-07, 12:56 AM	All invocations and spell like abilities, unless stated otherwise, are a std action. so you cant use your hideous blow and THEN blast them. If my nose is correct, and you are trying to find a way to use Hideous Blow more than once, look up "expert tactician" in the 3.0 sword and fist (also in Song and Silence 3.0).
vineyard 07-20-07, 11:25 AM	aside from the insane houserules (3 skill points to get full languages? really, that is just ignorant) the character concept is fully unsound for a newbie. for that matter it seems like a bad character to DM, especially as it seems as though you arent really that put together in that department. sorry to be harsh but damn man. and to be honest the whole thing sounds almost made up.
Rederik 07-20-07, 12:20 PM	From SRD: Lycanthropes are humanoids or giants who can transform themselves into animals. Half-Dragon The creature’s type changes to dragon. Size is unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves. So, a half-dragon can not be a werewolf.
forsaken1111 07-20-07, 02:55 PM	From SRD: Lycanthropes are humanoids or giants who can transform themselves into animals. Half-Dragon The creature’s type changes to dragon. Size is unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves. So, a half-dragon can not be a werewolf. Yep, he's correct. You CANNOT add the were-creature template to a half-dragon. Besides, why would you? The LA from half-dragon is already high, stacking were on top would make an unplayable character who cannot even deal with even CR encounters. Its a silly concept.
Phrennzy 07-20-07, 03:53 PM	Half half dragon werewolf warlock monk, actaully. I say we take off and nuke the place from orbit - it's the only way to be sure.
Bortas 07-24-07, 11:06 PM	From SRD: Lycanthropes are humanoids or giants who can transform themselves into animals. Half-Dragon The creature’s type changes to dragon. Size is unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves. So, a half-dragon can not be a werewolf. Actually the Savage Species book on pg. 144 states that a Lycanthrope and a Dragon could produce a Half-Dragon/Lycanthrope.
forsaken1111 07-25-07, 12:44 AM	Actually the Savage Species book on pg. 144 states that a Lycanthrope and a Dragon could produce a Half-Dragon/Lycanthrope. Foiled again!
jagggar 07-25-07, 03:17 PM	It is not possible handfeed someone new to the game a 9th ECL character if you plan on not choking him. I pulled out the puppy-dog eyes and was able to convince my first DM to let me play a half-fiend. I wish he had said no. (Threw off game balance and he bsed other bonuses to make the others feel special,) Apologize to your brother and tell him you meant he could play any 1st level character.* *While it is technicly possible to play this character from first level with the right sources, that you were giving the character racial HD for being a half-dragon shows that you aren't familiar enough with the game yet to do so.
snakeman830 07-26-07, 01:23 PM	280 from where? Half-dragons have no racial hit dice. They only have level adjustment. Level Adjustment (LA) only increases a character's Effective Character Level (ECL), not hit dice, skill points, feats, BAB, or the like. Even if Half-dragons did have racial hit dice, three would not translate to 280 skill points. I don't know what monster manual you're reading, but nothing in the 3.5 one gains ~46 skill points per hit die. Were-wolves have 2 racial hitdice, and gain skill points as (I believe) animals for those hit dice. This means that those skill points can only be applied to the list of animal class skills, and only amount to 2+Int mod per hit die, x4 at first level. Half-Dragon alters these HD. They increase to D10's and they get 6+Int modifier skill points instead of the normal 2 + Int modifier. For the whole "Half-dragons cannot be werewolves" argument. That is true. However, a werewolf (natural only) can be a half-dragon.
mearrin69 07-27-07, 03:49 AM	I say we take off and nuke the place from orbit - it's the only way to be sure. I'm with Phrennzy on this one. Core is probably easier to get your brother started with. Work up to the really crazy five-halves make a whole (with an undead lycanthrope neo-elemental template) stuff after he gets the hang of the game. The Fighter 2/Monk 1/Rogue 1/Ranger 2/Hexblade 3/Pirate 1/Zombie 1/Robot 1/Ninja 1 thing is also probably best reserved for people who are comfortable and want to experiment with extreme. Seems like a lot of people start with this stuff and I suppose it's natural to want to push the limits - but if you push them from the start there's nowhere to go but even crazier. YMMV though. M
dknight100 07-27-07, 03:55 AM	I say we take off and nuke the place from orbit - it's the only way to be sure. :rofl: phrennzy, we need you to post more, you're so succinct.
Callista 07-27-07, 07:42 AM	I think you should start him out as just a warlock. If he wants monkish flavor, he can take unarmed combat feats. You might also consider a dragon bloodline, from Unearthed Arcana. (If you give everyone a bloodline for free--that is, without taking "bloodline levels"--you will keep the game balanced. My DM did this. Just be sure to remember everyone's true ECL when you put them up against monsters, or they will win too easily.) That's about the simplest way I can think of to get the flavor he wants, without all this LA and complications. Point out that being human would give him that extra feat--which he can use for unarmed combat. This isn't optimized for a warlock, but it's way better than what you'd have if you let him play that mess of a monster of a character... If you go ahead with your plan, it'll be like you're trying to teach him to play the violin--using something it'd take a master a year to learn. It'd only frustrate him and you--it seems like this build is at the edge of your capacity, and way out of his reach, to make playable. Both of you need more practice. (That is not a bad thing. I don't know whether I could make that build workable, myself, and I've played for three years now.) When you teach someone to play the violin, you start with scales and simple songs. When you teach someone D&D, you start with simple classes. He has to learn the mechanics before you do anything fancy--and there are ways to give him that "cool factor" he's looking for without doing something mechanically complicated. Regarding Eldritch Blast: Just think of it as a magical crossbow with unlimited ammunition. He can use it anytime he wants.
Fatalis_902 07-27-07, 05:12 PM	Half-Dragon alters these HD. They increase to D10's and they get 6+Int modifier skill points instead of the normal 2 + Int modifier. Dragons have d12 hit dice, for the record. You're right about all else, though. My mistake. EDIT: He still doesn't get 280 skill points, though.
Caelic 07-28-07, 11:31 AM	Half-Dragon alters these HD. They increase to D10's and they get 6+Int modifier skill points instead of the normal 2 + Int modifier. That still leaves the question of how you managed to come up with 280 skill points from 2 racial hit dice.
snakeman830 07-28-07, 11:40 AM	Dragons have d12 hit dice, for the record. You're right about all else, though. My mistake. EDIT: He still doesn't get 280 skill points, though. Yes. Dragons have D12 HD. The Half-Dragon template, however, increases the racial HD by 1 size (to a maximum of D12). Thus, the normal D8 HD are now D10's. I agree that the skill points shouldn't be anywhere near that high, though.