Help with a lesser tiefling dragon shaman [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with a lesser tiefling dragon shaman [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zareneth
06-12-06, 11:10 PM Well, I'm making a Lesser Tiefling Dragon Shaman with the Copper Dragon Totem, who worships Bahamut. I need some help making sure I did everything right.

Can Lesser Tieflings take the Outsider Wing feat?

Is it possible to later on become a Dragonborn of Bahamut?(I dont have races of the dragon, my friend does.)

Did i do my ability scores right?

17 STR + 3 = 20
16 DEX +3 +2 Tiefling Modifier = 21
18 CON +4 = 22
14 INT +2 +2 Tiefling = 18
15 WIS +2 = 17
15 CHA +2 -2 Tiefling = 15

I rolled lucky, if my DM wants me to, I'll just reroll.

And finally, is there anywhere i could find an Infernal Phrasebook or Name Generator?
Shadow Weaver
06-12-06, 11:17 PM 17 STR + 3 = 20
16 DEX +3 +2 Tiefling Modifier = 21
18 CON +4 = 22
14 INT +2 +2 Tiefling = 18
15 WIS +2 = 17
15 CHA +2 -2 Tiefling = 15

I rolled lucky, if my DM wants me to, I'll just reroll.

And finally, is there anywhere i could find an Infernal Phrasebook or Name Generator?

I think your stats should be:

STR 17
DEX 18
CON 18
INT 16
WIS 17
CHA 13

Also, I'm pretty sure you need to be a native outsider to qualify for Outsider Wings. Lesser Tieflings are humanoids.
Zareneth
06-12-06, 11:26 PM thanks for the sats, wasnt quite sure.

the prerequisits for ousider wings are Aasimar and Tiefling. Doesnt say anything about outsider(native)
__DnD4Life__
06-13-06, 12:10 AM Well, you are Lesser teifling, which doesnt give you outsider traits. Therefore, no wings.
Zareneth
06-13-06, 12:21 AM sorry, i dont have the book, i'm just going by what i've seen.
Kazeofwinds
06-13-06, 12:40 AM If I remember right, the lesser versions are listed to offer alternative versions of the regular races, and aren't separate races, so they'd be teiflings/aasimar/genasi for purposes of feats and stuff.

Honestly though, this is one of those things you should probably discuss with your DM and get a ruling on.
King_Bulba
06-13-06, 01:20 AM By RAW yes you can. The text says NOTHING about having to be a native(outsider), but does say you need to be a tiefling. You are a tiefling, even if a lessor one, so you qualify. Still costs 2 feats so I dont see why people have issue with this.
Sphyre
06-13-06, 03:04 AM By RAW yes you can. The text says NOTHING about having to be a native(outsider), but does say you need to be a tiefling. You are a tiefling, even if a lessor one, so you qualify. Still costs 2 feats so I dont see why people have issue with this.

The feats says you need a race of "Tiefling." By RAW you are a "Lesser Teifling." Thus you aren't elgible.

See how you can twist things just by saying the word acronym RAW? It says very much, there that you have to be a Tiefling. The text says nothing like "You must be a regular Teifling, or any derivitive of such race."

There's your argument using the same logic with the opposite perspective and it holds up just as well as yours does.

Give RAW a rest. If you're the DM make a judgement call as to what's fair and balanced. If you're a player, ask your DM.
Zareneth
06-13-06, 10:52 AM what exactly is RAW?
Witch
06-13-06, 10:58 AM Did i do my ability scores right?

17 STR + 3 = 20
16 DEX +3 +2 Tiefling Modifier = 21
18 CON +4 = 22
14 INT +2 +2 Tiefling = 18
15 WIS +2 = 17
15 CHA +2 -2 Tiefling = 15

No, you didn't.
I have no idea where you got all those modifiers from.

17 STR = 17
16 DEX +2 = 18
18 CON = 18
14 INT +2 = 16
15 WIS = 15
15 CHA - 2 = 13

You don't add your modifier to your ability score. Your modifier is merely used for other purposes.
WayneTheGame
06-13-06, 11:24 AM FWIW, I do not recall there ever being something specifically called a "Lesser Tiefling" (or Aasimar, or Genasi); The rule in question refers to "lesser versions" of planetouched races to allow you to forego the Level Adjustment, but for all intents and purposes you are still of that race (and still called a Tiefling/Aasimar/Genasi/etc.). I mean really, something like this should not even be an ISSUE of debate. A "Lesser Tiefling" is still a Tiefling. Some people are so adamant about the exact wording of the RAW (Rules As Written, by the way) that they let it get in the way of common sense. :rolleyes:
runestar
06-13-06, 11:37 AM The feats says you need a race of "Tiefling." By RAW you are a "Lesser Teifling." Thus you aren't elgible.
Just when I thought arguments couldn't possibly get any lamer. :rolleyes:

If you actually read the back of the PGTF, it states that the lesser races replace the actual version of the original race. Thus, if you implement the lesser tiefling variant, they take the place of the actual tiefling as presented in the FRCS, ie: the lesser tiefling is the real mccoy, for all intents and purposes of feats/abilities interacting with it.

If I have not made my clearer, let me reiterate my stand - you don't call the lesser tiefling a lesser tiefling. It is still called a tiefling, just that it's outsider status is replaced with the lesser planetouched feature.

By the RAW, yes, King_Bulba is 100% correct. Ironically, Sphyre is the one playing with semantics. ;)
__DnD4Life__
06-13-06, 12:32 PM Well, I retract my previous statement. I thought the feat required the Outsider (native) subtype.

I think that you would be able to take this feat, since you are a Teifling, and the lesser does not matter in the least. I would ignore the Nays coming from this thread, and go talk to your DM. It is ALWAYS the best bet, unless he is an ignorant fool. No, that was not directed at anyone
Sphyre
06-13-06, 05:29 PM Just when I thought arguments couldn't possibly get any lamer. :rolleyes:

Thank you for being so obvious about it but missing the entire point.

RAW is pointless, because if you read open ended text it's upto interpretation. I don't really support either interpretation. But I was pointing out that someone could say you could play a fuzzy telepathic chicken with laser eyes and dominate monster at will DC 10000 by RAW because it never says you can't.

Saying "RAW" no longer backs up opinion with any sort of justification because the rules weren't written in legal language meant to be analyzed for loopholes so you can get out of jail due to wording inadequency.

I was playing with semantics exactly to illustrate the point that King Bulba was doing the same. I don't care whether you think he's elgible for the feat or not. RAW is DEAD, simple as that.

Pick and choose parts of a post to read, and you're sure not to get the entire picture, and thusly make a fool of yourself.
allenchan
06-13-06, 06:24 PM But I was pointing out that someone could say you could play a fuzzy telepathic chicken with laser eyes and dominate monster at will DC 10000 by RAW because it never says you can't.

You're assuming Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken has a listed Level Adjustment. :P
d24478667
06-13-06, 08:23 PM what book are the lesser planetouched in?
Sphyre
06-13-06, 09:18 PM You're assuming Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken has a listed Level Adjustment. :P

You're assuming that I'm assuming that the Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken has a level adjustment.
RendakorRahn
06-13-06, 09:36 PM What book is the Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken in? ;)
Kazeofwinds
06-13-06, 10:31 PM Lesser planetouched are in Races of Faerun.

The fuzzy chicken is in the Nonexistant Compendium of Nonexistant Monsters, published by nobody inc. publishing.

:P
Zareneth
06-13-06, 10:41 PM is there perhaps a special character sheet i could use to make the chicken?

oh a side note, if i were to find a baby dragon in a campaign, could i steal it, train it, and keep it as an animal companion?
runestar
06-14-06, 12:17 AM I want to play a fuzzy telepathic chicken. :( Can someone post a SS progression for it. :)
allenchan
06-14-06, 01:07 AM You're assuming that I'm assuming that the Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken has a level adjustment.

Yes, because if they dont then the RAW does state you cannot play one (rather, it states it must have one to be played), which would make your whole point moot.
Sphyre
06-14-06, 04:27 AM Yes, because if they dont then the RAW does state you cannot play one (rather, it states it must have one to be played), which would make your whole point moot.

You can make any point moot, by altering the conditions in which it was originally stated, but doing that in itself is moot, because you're stating "Well you'd be wrong if you said the same thing under different circumstances!" (Not paying attention to the fact that others wouldn't say the same thing under different circumstances)

This is getting OT though. back to the lesser teifling dragon shaman
snowlynx
06-15-06, 02:13 AM oh a side note, if i were to find a baby dragon in a campaign, could i steal it, train it, and keep it as an animal companion?

Animal companion: no, it's type dragon, and not an animal. I'ts not trainable either; it is, however, intelligent so you might be able to convince it to do tricks (using diplomacy instead of handle animal.)

You could probably keep it as a cohort or as a familiar or something with the appropriate feats, or the DM might be nice and let you hold onto it as long as you were treating it well but that would be an in-game thing, not something we need a sheet of rules for :D I bet you could bribe the dragon with treasure if you wanted him/her to stick with you too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zareneth 06-12-06, 11:10 PM	Well, I'm making a Lesser Tiefling Dragon Shaman with the Copper Dragon Totem, who worships Bahamut. I need some help making sure I did everything right. Can Lesser Tieflings take the Outsider Wing feat? Is it possible to later on become a Dragonborn of Bahamut?(I dont have races of the dragon, my friend does.) Did i do my ability scores right? 17 STR + 3 = 20 16 DEX +3 +2 Tiefling Modifier = 21 18 CON +4 = 22 14 INT +2 +2 Tiefling = 18 15 WIS +2 = 17 15 CHA +2 -2 Tiefling = 15 I rolled lucky, if my DM wants me to, I'll just reroll. And finally, is there anywhere i could find an Infernal Phrasebook or Name Generator?
Shadow Weaver 06-12-06, 11:17 PM	17 STR + 3 = 20 16 DEX +3 +2 Tiefling Modifier = 21 18 CON +4 = 22 14 INT +2 +2 Tiefling = 18 15 WIS +2 = 17 15 CHA +2 -2 Tiefling = 15 I rolled lucky, if my DM wants me to, I'll just reroll. And finally, is there anywhere i could find an Infernal Phrasebook or Name Generator? I think your stats should be: STR 17 DEX 18 CON 18 INT 16 WIS 17 CHA 13 Also, I'm pretty sure you need to be a native outsider to qualify for Outsider Wings. Lesser Tieflings are humanoids.
Zareneth 06-12-06, 11:26 PM	thanks for the sats, wasnt quite sure. the prerequisits for ousider wings are Aasimar and Tiefling. Doesnt say anything about outsider(native)
__DnD4Life__ 06-13-06, 12:10 AM	Well, you are Lesser teifling, which doesnt give you outsider traits. Therefore, no wings.
Zareneth 06-13-06, 12:21 AM	sorry, i dont have the book, i'm just going by what i've seen.
Kazeofwinds 06-13-06, 12:40 AM	If I remember right, the lesser versions are listed to offer alternative versions of the regular races, and aren't separate races, so they'd be teiflings/aasimar/genasi for purposes of feats and stuff. Honestly though, this is one of those things you should probably discuss with your DM and get a ruling on.
King_Bulba 06-13-06, 01:20 AM	By RAW yes you can. The text says NOTHING about having to be a native(outsider), but does say you need to be a tiefling. You are a tiefling, even if a lessor one, so you qualify. Still costs 2 feats so I dont see why people have issue with this.
Sphyre 06-13-06, 03:04 AM	By RAW yes you can. The text says NOTHING about having to be a native(outsider), but does say you need to be a tiefling. You are a tiefling, even if a lessor one, so you qualify. Still costs 2 feats so I dont see why people have issue with this. The feats says you need a race of "Tiefling." By RAW you are a "Lesser Teifling." Thus you aren't elgible. See how you can twist things just by saying the word acronym RAW? It says very much, there that you have to be a Tiefling. The text says nothing like "You must be a regular Teifling, or any derivitive of such race." There's your argument using the same logic with the opposite perspective and it holds up just as well as yours does. Give RAW a rest. If you're the DM make a judgement call as to what's fair and balanced. If you're a player, ask your DM.
Zareneth 06-13-06, 10:52 AM	what exactly is RAW?
Witch 06-13-06, 10:58 AM	Did i do my ability scores right? 17 STR + 3 = 20 16 DEX +3 +2 Tiefling Modifier = 21 18 CON +4 = 22 14 INT +2 +2 Tiefling = 18 15 WIS +2 = 17 15 CHA +2 -2 Tiefling = 15 No, you didn't. I have no idea where you got all those modifiers from. 17 STR = 17 16 DEX +2 = 18 18 CON = 18 14 INT +2 = 16 15 WIS = 15 15 CHA - 2 = 13 You don't add your modifier to your ability score. Your modifier is merely used for other purposes.
WayneTheGame 06-13-06, 11:24 AM	FWIW, I do not recall there ever being something specifically called a "Lesser Tiefling" (or Aasimar, or Genasi); The rule in question refers to "lesser versions" of planetouched races to allow you to forego the Level Adjustment, but for all intents and purposes you are still of that race (and still called a Tiefling/Aasimar/Genasi/etc.). I mean really, something like this should not even be an ISSUE of debate. A "Lesser Tiefling" is still a Tiefling. Some people are so adamant about the exact wording of the RAW (Rules As Written, by the way) that they let it get in the way of common sense. :rolleyes:
runestar 06-13-06, 11:37 AM	The feats says you need a race of "Tiefling." By RAW you are a "Lesser Teifling." Thus you aren't elgible. Just when I thought arguments couldn't possibly get any lamer. :rolleyes: If you actually read the back of the PGTF, it states that the lesser races replace the actual version of the original race. Thus, if you implement the lesser tiefling variant, they take the place of the actual tiefling as presented in the FRCS, ie: the lesser tiefling is the real mccoy, for all intents and purposes of feats/abilities interacting with it. If I have not made my clearer, let me reiterate my stand - you don't call the lesser tiefling a lesser tiefling. It is still called a tiefling, just that it's outsider status is replaced with the lesser planetouched feature. By the RAW, yes, King_Bulba is 100% correct. Ironically, Sphyre is the one playing with semantics. ;)
__DnD4Life__ 06-13-06, 12:32 PM	Well, I retract my previous statement. I thought the feat required the Outsider (native) subtype. I think that you would be able to take this feat, since you are a Teifling, and the lesser does not matter in the least. I would ignore the Nays coming from this thread, and go talk to your DM. It is ALWAYS the best bet, unless he is an ignorant fool. No, that was not directed at anyone
Sphyre 06-13-06, 05:29 PM	Just when I thought arguments couldn't possibly get any lamer. :rolleyes: Thank you for being so obvious about it but missing the entire point. RAW is pointless, because if you read open ended text it's upto interpretation. I don't really support either interpretation. But I was pointing out that someone could say you could play a fuzzy telepathic chicken with laser eyes and dominate monster at will DC 10000 by RAW because it never says you can't. Saying "RAW" no longer backs up opinion with any sort of justification because the rules weren't written in legal language meant to be analyzed for loopholes so you can get out of jail due to wording inadequency. I was playing with semantics exactly to illustrate the point that King Bulba was doing the same. I don't care whether you think he's elgible for the feat or not. RAW is DEAD, simple as that. Pick and choose parts of a post to read, and you're sure not to get the entire picture, and thusly make a fool of yourself.
allenchan 06-13-06, 06:24 PM	But I was pointing out that someone could say you could play a fuzzy telepathic chicken with laser eyes and dominate monster at will DC 10000 by RAW because it never says you can't. You're assuming Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken has a listed Level Adjustment. :P
d24478667 06-13-06, 08:23 PM	what book are the lesser planetouched in?
Sphyre 06-13-06, 09:18 PM	You're assuming Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken has a listed Level Adjustment. :P You're assuming that I'm assuming that the Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken has a level adjustment.
RendakorRahn 06-13-06, 09:36 PM	What book is the Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken in? ;)
Kazeofwinds 06-13-06, 10:31 PM	Lesser planetouched are in Races of Faerun. The fuzzy chicken is in the Nonexistant Compendium of Nonexistant Monsters, published by nobody inc. publishing. :P
Zareneth 06-13-06, 10:41 PM	is there perhaps a special character sheet i could use to make the chicken? oh a side note, if i were to find a baby dragon in a campaign, could i steal it, train it, and keep it as an animal companion?
runestar 06-14-06, 12:17 AM	I want to play a fuzzy telepathic chicken. :( Can someone post a SS progression for it. :)
allenchan 06-14-06, 01:07 AM	You're assuming that I'm assuming that the Fuzzy Telepathic Chicken has a level adjustment. Yes, because if they dont then the RAW does state you cannot play one (rather, it states it must have one to be played), which would make your whole point moot.
Sphyre 06-14-06, 04:27 AM	Yes, because if they dont then the RAW does state you cannot play one (rather, it states it must have one to be played), which would make your whole point moot. You can make any point moot, by altering the conditions in which it was originally stated, but doing that in itself is moot, because you're stating "Well you'd be wrong if you said the same thing under different circumstances!" (Not paying attention to the fact that others wouldn't say the same thing under different circumstances) This is getting OT though. back to the lesser teifling dragon shaman
snowlynx 06-15-06, 02:13 AM	oh a side note, if i were to find a baby dragon in a campaign, could i steal it, train it, and keep it as an animal companion? Animal companion: no, it's type dragon, and not an animal. I'ts not trainable either; it is, however, intelligent so you might be able to convince it to do tricks (using diplomacy instead of handle animal.) You could probably keep it as a cohort or as a familiar or something with the appropriate feats, or the DM might be nice and let you hold onto it as long as you were treating it well but that would be an in-game thing, not something we need a sheet of rules for :D I bet you could bribe the dragon with treasure if you wanted him/her to stick with you too.