Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chitzk0i 11-13-07, 05:18 PM	One of the games I'm in is going well, but I'm somewhat concerned. The DM specifically wanted to run a more over-the-top, no-holds-barred game than the other games currently running. I brought in a Goliath Fighter 10/Barbarian 2 with Combat Brute, Shock Trooper, and Dungeon Crasher. Vogoth kicks some serious butt! Maybe a bit too much. With his 32 strength when raging, a full power attack charge is 3d6+44 made at +25 to attack, followed up with a bull rush made at +25 on the strength check. If I push him into the wall, that's another wad of damage from Dungeon Crasher. After joining the Mighty Arms of Kord, Vogoth shot into its highest ranks after only three days of adventuring. The DM is concerned that monsters that can stand up to that kind of punishment would clobber most anyone else in the party. Tough mosnters like that are often mindless or have high will saves, nerfing the beguiler/binder/anima mage. The dwarf druid is trying to supply blasting spells, but only manages a few times a day due to his spell selection (which is improving). Then there's the vanilla bard who can't contribute much beyond a few songs. I'm thinking of retiring Vogoth after this adventure and introducing a less powerful character. Maybe a goliath paladin instead. Any tips for what to do in this situation?
rimble 11-13-07, 05:52 PM	Well, that's sure one big initial wallop...but isn't your AC abysmal due to raging, charging, and Shock Troopering (not very familiar with any of the tactical feats)? I'm sure you have a bunch of hit points, but your opponents should be able to Power Attack for max too and carve you up pretty good. Seems like some spellcasters would do you pretty good too. Regardless, if it's too much, either the rest of the party needs to step up, or you should step down. There's really no right answer. My personal preference (if the difference in power is becoming a problem) is that it's easier for one slacking player to be brought up to par, or one outshining player to tone it down a bit, than to have several other players adjust their characters.
DarkChipmunk 11-13-07, 05:53 PM	You have a very powerful build with a good level of optimization. It seems the rest of your party does not. This is a common woe for folks that enjoy being very good at what they do. My advice is to stick with the character unless everyone else complains about it. To the DM, I offer the advice of using a few spellcasters with battlefield control defenses. Solid Fog and friends will really ruin any charger's day, and even a simple Entangle can be frustrating. Make sure the enemies take advantage of terrain and tactics and they should be all right. You are designed to Hulk Smash, but you actually have to get up in their face to do it, and there's where spellcasters can trip you up badly.
kelvinaw273 11-13-07, 08:17 PM	Sometimes you need to give and take. See how you can beef up the rest of the party, but at the end of the day they have the right to play the characters they enjoy too. If you are all willing to work as a party to overcome obstacles and the rest of them are not fussed about optimising to that degree, maybe you should tone it down a bit. Of course the DM could easily stimy you by not allowing you to charge (obstacles), using lots of ranged attacks against your less-than-great AC, using assassins who sneak up on the party, very high AC opponents to stop your power attack hitting etc.
StevenO 11-13-07, 11:19 PM	I'm not familiar with the Dungeon Crasher but while the other two are strong together you may be missing something. If I'm reading them correctly Combat Brute would give you a nice advantage to your PA damage the round AFTER the charge while the Shock Trooper's benefit when using PA comes from the attack made during the charge. That is you can't use Shock Trooper to move the attack penalty to AC while enjoying the damage benefit from Combat Brute. If you can work it in to your "monster" builds Elusive Target can make all the power attack in the world useless. "Oh, you take a Headless Charge using Leap Attack at the big nasty converting everything you can into your PA damage; congratulation, you hit now roll damage with no bonus damage from PA."
CryoSilver 11-13-07, 11:25 PM	Be thankful you don't also have Leap Attack (adds another multiplier to your Power Attack bonus). That'd make your DM cry. I feel like I'm having a similar problem in my game, where my warblade clearly outclasses the other fighting characters in the group. At level 3, I'm dealing 6d6+13 at +11 to hit, or swinging twice, or getting damage reduction when I hit, while everyone else is closer to 10-12 damage with no other benefits, on top of the fact that I can heal myself with Vital Recovery. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop optimizing. It just means the rest of the party should put more effort into keeping up; something which I am willing to help them do.
kelvinaw273 11-14-07, 06:23 AM	Be thankful you don't also have Leap Attack (adds another multiplier to your Power Attack bonus). That'd make your DM cry. I feel like I'm having a similar problem in my game, where my warblade clearly outclasses the other fighting characters in the group. At level 3, I'm dealing 6d6+13 at +11 to hit, or swinging twice, or getting damage reduction when I hit, while everyone else is closer to 10-12 damage with no other benefits, on top of the fact that I can heal myself with Vital Recovery. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop optimizing. It just means the rest of the party should put more effort into keeping up; something which I am willing to help them do. Or perhaps they are concentrating on doing things other than dishing out Uber-damage? I'd love to know where that 6d6 is coming from too ...
Chimaera2000 11-14-07, 06:47 AM	Talk with your DM about this and see how he or she feels about the character. For example, a creative DM can find plenty of ways to challenge this character. What if there's obstructed terrain to prevent him from charging? What if there are flying or out-of-reach enemies? What if there are traps or social encounters? What if there are hordes of smaller creatures who can take advantage of his weaker AC or creatures with reach who can use control the battlefield (such as with Improved Trip or Stand Still)? Heck, what if there are spellcasters? Mirror image alone is bad for him, and that's a low-level spell! Also, you might enjoy this author's perspective on overpowered characters (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=792054). I know that I did.
Nygaard 11-14-07, 03:28 PM	You have an effective character level of 13 and the druid in your party has bad spell selection? Damage optimization is easy to push towards the stupid side of things, but other 13th level chars should be able to stand up pretty well next to you. If you're conserned about it being too over the top, try scaling back the optimization and go for things that are more fun than they are effective. Knockback, Rockhurling (and subsequently Fling Enemy), and Auspisious Markings are all pretty powerful abilities, but they stay withen the core rules and only one splat book. Limiting your char construction resources is one of the best ways to bring the power-level closer to earth without gimping yourself. While the knockback/stormtrooper/dungeon crasher combo is really really good, it uses the core rules and 3 or 4 splat books, one of which is 3.0. who needs that stupid 2d8+3xSTR from knocking them into walls thing when you're gonna have 35 strength anyway?
CryoSilver 11-14-07, 09:00 PM	Or perhaps they are concentrating on doing things other than dishing out Uber-damage? I'd love to know where that 6d6 is coming from too ... Greatsword: 2d6 +3 Shocking Burst: 1d6+3. On this, I have been led to suspect that each member of the group has one high-powered item, this being mine. Punishing Stance: 1d6 Rabid Wolf Strike: 2d6 17 Str: +4 Power Attack: +6
runestar 11-14-07, 09:07 PM	Then the OP better get leap attack to bypass the limitations of difficult terrain...:P