Help with clerics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with clerics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sugar_high
07-23-05, 08:14 AM My DM recently started a new campaign and decided that he wanted all of us to
play something different from normal. I normally play fighter-type characters
and tend to be most comfortable in that role, but he wanted me to try a cleric.

That said, I'd like any advice that you all can give me on playing clerics
effectively. Just in case anyone needs it, the party consists of two fighters
(one dual wielding war maces from the Complete Warrior and the other dual
wielding specialty whips), a druid focused on archery, and myself. My character
is a Half-Orc and channels positive energy and the campaign setting is Forgotten
Realms.

Thanks in advance for your help! :D
celtredleg
07-23-05, 10:34 AM What alignment???If you are good and spontanios cast heal, that helps a lot. You you going for the healing battery/support role?? If so, always remember bless. If your DM allows complete divine, Augmented healing is a very usefull feat for a support clric.
Radijs
07-23-05, 12:23 PM Your role will shift somewhat but not entirely from front line fighter to support cast.

Your offensive capacities are a bit more restricted but you get a whole heap of spells which you can use to help your allies.

celtredleg has already told you about healing. I'm talking about buffing. As a cleric you know the entire divine spell list, make the most of it.
Protection from XXX gives you or any willing target +2 AC and +2 on saves against that alignment.

Cast Doom on your enemies and hamper their abilities to inflict damage while making them more vulnerable to attacks from your side.

Use command to have witless enemies charge at you, flee the scene drop whatever they are holding or even fall prone at your feet!

There are thousands of marvellous options.
GroopaKoopa
07-23-05, 01:26 PM There is a good way to make a cleric very strong in melee.
A metamagic feat that make spells last in 24 hours, and Divine Metamagic.
I think the feats name is Persistent Spell.

Then, try to make you able to do 14 turn undead per day (extra turning, magic items etc).

Then use Divine Metamagic for Righteous Migth and Divine Power.

More information here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=459650

Enjoj!
Dragonsblood
07-23-05, 02:07 PM I played a cleric in the last campaign I played in. I really enjoyed the War Domain. It has a nice offensive spell selection so you don't feel like a healing bot, and it gives you the weapon focus feat in your dieties favored weapon so you're decent in melee. My cleric had near the same melee capacity as the paladin and barbarian in the group, AND I could cast spells.

If you're starting at level 1, you're propably going to be using the vast majority of your spells for healing because buffs only last a single fight. In later levels you'll have more spell slots so you can cast some buffs along with enough healing. Getting a wand of Cure Light Wounds is also a great idea (make your team pay their fair percentage for it).
Vatras
07-23-05, 09:11 PM Go for some good alignment to be able to spontaneously heal, which is a major power for a cleric. Get a god of war and the domains of War and Strength, which is possible in the Realms. Those two grant you weapon specialization and the feat os strength (yes, its usable only once per day, but our cleric has it and is after reaching level 27 still very happy with it).

Featwise you have many choices, but assuming you want to keep warrior style, we can leave many be. The most useful metamagic feats for a cleric are Extend Spell and Quicken Spell, but due to the level modifications and requirements of them they are not needed at first (and it does not matter, if you can extend a 1 minute to a 2 minute spell).
You should probably take Extra Turning soon, because with the category of Divine Feats you can turn your turn attempts into other things, and if you want be able to do that, turn attempts become valuable. Many are enchanted with Divine Metamagic (allows instant modification of spells by expending turn attempts), but our cleric took the divine feat which grants him bonus damage based on his CHA.

Spellwise you can become better than any fighter by combining the combat spells in the PHB, starting with Divine Power at 1st level (better means higher attack and damage). If you can spontaenously heal you can just take all the combat spells, and turn them into heals when needed...the first levels you will basically spend all spells for healing, but then your plate armor and attack are not too bad without spells anyway. The turning point for a cleric comes at level 11+, once he can cast Heal. Thats the moment, when he can actually use the lower level combat spells without having to fear he will be out of healing power (all the combat enhancers are level 1-5, so it does not matter that you need the 6th+ slots for Heal).
Some of those combat spells run pretty long, especially when extended, making them usable all day. Our cleric took Persistent Spell too, so he could use certain spells round the clock (most do this with Divine Metamagic, ours did it by getting 11th level spell slots), which more or less makes him a fighter without being one.
GroopaKoopa
07-23-05, 09:35 PM Yes, don't buy a big enchantment bonus in the weapon or armor since they can be used pretty long by Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment.
Feriin
07-24-05, 08:14 PM Clerics are melee oriented. Your DM screwwed up here, Clerics are fighters with spells for the most part.

I would suggest putting your highest or 2nd highest stat in strength , then in wisdom , 3rd into charisma, fill out the rest from there.

DITCH the half - orc. Try for Aasimar if at all possible , otherwise go human.

I would suggest being a follower of Torm.

Take your first 5 levels in Cleric, then take 2 levels in Paladin. Now look for a nice PRC out there.. something with decent BAB , saves and that adds to your clerics spell casting level. ( DragonSlayer comes to mind).

If you do things right with your build you can have fighter type the likes that will make you DM cringe for making you play a different class. Also BUY lots of healing wands, you can stand and be the parties main dmg dealer or you can back off and just keep the other fighters healed with your wands.

If you go the Evil route be a follower of Bane , goto level 4 in cleric, 2 levels in fighter, 2 levels in blackguard, level in dragonslayer , then back to cleric levels..Take Hatred and Destruction as domains and USE them..Again use wands of healing to heal your party members..

Either way get the following feats..
Power Attack
Weapon focus
Divin Might
Extra Turning
Extra smiting ( extremely useful with Destruction domain)..

As far as gear goes Use a two - handed sword. Full plate as well.
Have a potoin belt keep if filled with 4 cure lights 2 cure mods 2 cure serious 2 sancuary.

Use your spell slot for buff spells mostly , Keep 1 Healing spell memmed for each spell level.

Plan out your character progression so you know what feats youa re going ot get so you can easily make the requirements for PRCs.
A Man In Black
07-24-05, 09:00 PM Clerics are melee oriented. Your DM screwwed up here, Clerics are fighters with spells for the most part.
This is correct. The rest is somewhat iffy.

The best core domains are Travel and Luck, hands down. Travel has an awesome power and lots of good spells, and Luck has the best domain power in the game.

Magic is good and has some spells you can't get otherwise. The elemental domains and Sun are good for games where the domain powers are going to be useful (because the spells mostly work on the same foes as the domain powers).

War is weak unless your deity has a really good favored weapon, Strength is awful and limits multiclassing, Healing is hideously weak, the alignment domains aren't much unless you've got a spell in mind to make the most of the caster level bonus, and Death is limited unless you can actually get some use out of the undead-creating spells.

I would suggest putting your highest or 2nd highest stat in strength , then in wisdom , 3rd into charisma, fill out the rest from there.
Wisdom first. Clerics are spellcasters.

Strength next if you can't use Divine feats (primarily Divine Might). Make sure you have a 13 str, of course, for Power Attack.

DITCH the half - orc. Try for Aasimar if at all possible , otherwise go human.
Actually, cleric is one of the few things half-orcs don't suck at. Aasimar isn't really worth it, though, because of the level adjustment.

I would suggest being a follower of Torm.
Unless the game isn't in the Realms...

[qute]Take your first 5 levels in Cleric, then take 2 levels in Paladin. Now look for a nice PRC out there.. something with decent BAB , saves and that adds to your clerics spell casting level. ( DragonSlayer comes to mind).[/quote]
NO NO NO BAD IDEA NO

DO NOT multiclass out of cleric into anything that isn't getting you caster levels. Period. Ever. It's not worth it.

Likewise, you DO NOT want to lose caster levels if you can avoid it. Dragon Slayer is going to cost you five caster levels.

You don't need to multiclass out of cleric to make an effective combatant. Divine Power and Righteous Might help keep you in the front line effectively.

If you go the Evil route be a follower of Bane , goto level 4 in cleric, 2 levels in fighter, 2 levels in blackguard, level in dragonslayer , then back to cleric levels..Take Hatred and Destruction as domains and USE them..Again use wands of healing to heal your party members..
So you're going to be a level 9 character who casts like a level 5 cleric and only managed to gain two BAB and a couple smites out of the deal?

Either way get the following feats..
Power Attack is a must-have, as is Extend Spell. Divine Might is great if you can get it, as is Divine Metamagic (especially combined with Persistent Spell). Extra Turning makes Divine Might and Divine Metamagic more potent, but isn't very good on its own except in a undead-heavy game.

As with any caster, Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion are extremely potent and relatively cheap. Craft Magic Weapons/Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Craft Wand are potent as well, but you'll need to make sure your GM does use the 3.5 rules on giving lower-level characters more XP for challenges, in the event you fall behind because of the XP expenditures.

As far as gear goes Use a two - handed sword. Full plate as well.
Have a potoin belt keep if filled with 4 cure lights 2 cure mods 2 cure serious 2 sancuary.
Longspear, spear, morning star, and heavy mace are all good picks for clerics who don't have martial weapon proficiency. You'll want a light crossbow, too, but I'm sure you can figure that out.

Use your spell slot for buff spells mostly , Keep 1 Healing spell memmed for each spell level.
Yes, you want to be buffing yourself and your friends, depending on what you're doing.

As for the healing spells, prep stuff like Remove Blindness/Deafness and Lesser Restoration and such. If you need to do HP healing, trade in the status-healing spells for HP healing spells. Better yet, take a wand of cure light wounds for out-of-healing combat. (If you MUST be evil, try and take Spontaneous Healing, from Complete Divine.)

My personal mix of spells for a cleric is two buffs to two status-healing to one utility when my cleric is going to be in a support role, and three buffs to one status healing to one utility when the cleric is going to be in a frontline role.

Lesser Restoration, Remove B/D, and similar spells are great choices for scrolls.

Plan out your character progression so you know what feats youa re going ot get so you can easily make the requirements for PRCs.
This is good advice no matter what kind of character you're making.
StormCrow42
07-24-05, 09:26 PM If you're in cleric for the healing, the Sun domain is worthwhile if you can take Radiant Servant of Pelor (or insert god with sun domain here). A Radiant Servant basically gains extra healing and undead turning power, as well as a third domain eventually, for absolutely no sacrifice in abilities.
A Man In Black
07-24-05, 10:03 PM If you're in cleric for the healing, the Sun domain is worthwhile if you can take Radiant Servant of Pelor (or insert god with sun domain here). A Radiant Servant basically gains extra healing and undead turning power, as well as a third domain eventually, for absolutely no sacrifice in abilities.
Obviously, any advice anyone gives is tempered by sacrifices for PrCs. Weapon Focus is a pretty sucky feat and Sun is a pretty sucky domain, but if you need them for a PrC, you need them for a PrC.
Feriin
07-25-05, 11:29 AM This is correct. The rest is somewhat iffy.

The best core domains are Travel and Luck, hands down. Travel has an awesome power and lots of good spells, and Luck has the best domain power in the game.

Magic is good and has some spells you can't get otherwise. The elemental domains and Sun are good for games where the domain powers are going to be useful (because the spells mostly work on the same foes as the domain powers).

War is weak unless your deity has a really good favored weapon, Strength is awful and limits multiclassing, Healing is hideously weak, the alignment domains aren't much unless you've got a spell in mind to make the most of the caster level bonus, and Death is limited unless you can actually get some use out of the undead-creating spells.

Wisdom first. Clerics are spellcasters.

Strength next if you can't use Divine feats (primarily Divine Might). Make sure you have a 13 str, of course, for Power Attack.

Actually, cleric is one of the few things half-orcs don't suck at. Aasimar isn't really worth it, though, because of the level adjustment.

Unless the game isn't in the Realms...

[qute]Take your first 5 levels in Cleric, then take 2 levels in Paladin. Now look for a nice PRC out there.. something with decent BAB , saves and that adds to your clerics spell casting level. ( DragonSlayer comes to mind).
NO NO NO BAD IDEA NO

DO NOT multiclass out of cleric into anything that isn't getting you caster levels. Period. Ever. It's not worth it.

Likewise, you DO NOT want to lose caster levels if you can avoid it. Dragon Slayer is going to cost you five caster levels.

You don't need to multiclass out of cleric to make an effective combatant. Divine Power and Righteous Might help keep you in the front line effectively.

So you're going to be a level 9 character who casts like a level 5 cleric and only managed to gain two BAB and a couple smites out of the deal?

Power Attack is a must-have, as is Extend Spell. Divine Might is great if you can get it, as is Divine Metamagic (especially combined with Persistent Spell). Extra Turning makes Divine Might and Divine Metamagic more potent, but isn't very good on its own except in a undead-heavy game.

As with any caster, Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion are extremely potent and relatively cheap. Craft Magic Weapons/Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Craft Wand are potent as well, but you'll need to make sure your GM does use the 3.5 rules on giving lower-level characters more XP for challenges, in the event you fall behind because of the XP expenditures.

Longspear, spear, morning star, and heavy mace are all good picks for clerics who don't have martial weapon proficiency. You'll want a light crossbow, too, but I'm sure you can figure that out.

Yes, you want to be buffing yourself and your friends, depending on what you're doing.

As for the healing spells, prep stuff like Remove Blindness/Deafness and Lesser Restoration and such. If you need to do HP healing, trade in the status-healing spells for HP healing spells. Better yet, take a wand of cure light wounds for out-of-healing combat. (If you MUST be evil, try and take Spontaneous Healing, from Complete Divine.)

My personal mix of spells for a cleric is two buffs to two status-healing to one utility when my cleric is going to be in a support role, and three buffs to one status healing to one utility when the cleric is going to be in a frontline role.

Lesser Restoration, Remove B/D, and similar spells are great choices for scrolls.

This is good advice no matter what kind of character you're making.[/QUOTE]

I think you missed some of my underlying reasons for the class progressions listed. Saves are important, as is the BAB, in my clerics spells generally take a second place, used to buff then more or less forgetten for a few rounds.When I said take a level in Dragonslayer I meant Take ONLY 1 level dragonslayer.

Also the OP sais the setting is Forgotten Realms.

Ofcourse there are other things you can do for your clerics , what I listed above is what I like to do.

sorry that not everything i wanted to quote is in the quote box.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sugar_high 07-23-05, 08:14 AM	My DM recently started a new campaign and decided that he wanted all of us to play something different from normal. I normally play fighter-type characters and tend to be most comfortable in that role, but he wanted me to try a cleric. That said, I'd like any advice that you all can give me on playing clerics effectively. Just in case anyone needs it, the party consists of two fighters (one dual wielding war maces from the Complete Warrior and the other dual wielding specialty whips), a druid focused on archery, and myself. My character is a Half-Orc and channels positive energy and the campaign setting is Forgotten Realms. Thanks in advance for your help! :D
celtredleg 07-23-05, 10:34 AM	What alignment???If you are good and spontanios cast heal, that helps a lot. You you going for the healing battery/support role?? If so, always remember bless. If your DM allows complete divine, Augmented healing is a very usefull feat for a support clric.
Radijs 07-23-05, 12:23 PM	Your role will shift somewhat but not entirely from front line fighter to support cast. Your offensive capacities are a bit more restricted but you get a whole heap of spells which you can use to help your allies. celtredleg has already told you about healing. I'm talking about buffing. As a cleric you know the entire divine spell list, make the most of it. Protection from XXX gives you or any willing target +2 AC and +2 on saves against that alignment. Cast Doom on your enemies and hamper their abilities to inflict damage while making them more vulnerable to attacks from your side. Use command to have witless enemies charge at you, flee the scene drop whatever they are holding or even fall prone at your feet! There are thousands of marvellous options.
GroopaKoopa 07-23-05, 01:26 PM	There is a good way to make a cleric very strong in melee. A metamagic feat that make spells last in 24 hours, and Divine Metamagic. I think the feats name is Persistent Spell. Then, try to make you able to do 14 turn undead per day (extra turning, magic items etc). Then use Divine Metamagic for Righteous Migth and Divine Power. More information here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=459650 Enjoj!
Dragonsblood 07-23-05, 02:07 PM	I played a cleric in the last campaign I played in. I really enjoyed the War Domain. It has a nice offensive spell selection so you don't feel like a healing bot, and it gives you the weapon focus feat in your dieties favored weapon so you're decent in melee. My cleric had near the same melee capacity as the paladin and barbarian in the group, AND I could cast spells. If you're starting at level 1, you're propably going to be using the vast majority of your spells for healing because buffs only last a single fight. In later levels you'll have more spell slots so you can cast some buffs along with enough healing. Getting a wand of Cure Light Wounds is also a great idea (make your team pay their fair percentage for it).
Vatras 07-23-05, 09:11 PM	Go for some good alignment to be able to spontaneously heal, which is a major power for a cleric. Get a god of war and the domains of War and Strength, which is possible in the Realms. Those two grant you weapon specialization and the feat os strength (yes, its usable only once per day, but our cleric has it and is after reaching level 27 still very happy with it). Featwise you have many choices, but assuming you want to keep warrior style, we can leave many be. The most useful metamagic feats for a cleric are Extend Spell and Quicken Spell, but due to the level modifications and requirements of them they are not needed at first (and it does not matter, if you can extend a 1 minute to a 2 minute spell). You should probably take Extra Turning soon, because with the category of Divine Feats you can turn your turn attempts into other things, and if you want be able to do that, turn attempts become valuable. Many are enchanted with Divine Metamagic (allows instant modification of spells by expending turn attempts), but our cleric took the divine feat which grants him bonus damage based on his CHA. Spellwise you can become better than any fighter by combining the combat spells in the PHB, starting with Divine Power at 1st level (better means higher attack and damage). If you can spontaenously heal you can just take all the combat spells, and turn them into heals when needed...the first levels you will basically spend all spells for healing, but then your plate armor and attack are not too bad without spells anyway. The turning point for a cleric comes at level 11+, once he can cast Heal. Thats the moment, when he can actually use the lower level combat spells without having to fear he will be out of healing power (all the combat enhancers are level 1-5, so it does not matter that you need the 6th+ slots for Heal). Some of those combat spells run pretty long, especially when extended, making them usable all day. Our cleric took Persistent Spell too, so he could use certain spells round the clock (most do this with Divine Metamagic, ours did it by getting 11th level spell slots), which more or less makes him a fighter without being one.
GroopaKoopa 07-23-05, 09:35 PM	Yes, don't buy a big enchantment bonus in the weapon or armor since they can be used pretty long by Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment.
Feriin 07-24-05, 08:14 PM	Clerics are melee oriented. Your DM screwwed up here, Clerics are fighters with spells for the most part. I would suggest putting your highest or 2nd highest stat in strength , then in wisdom , 3rd into charisma, fill out the rest from there. DITCH the half - orc. Try for Aasimar if at all possible , otherwise go human. I would suggest being a follower of Torm. Take your first 5 levels in Cleric, then take 2 levels in Paladin. Now look for a nice PRC out there.. something with decent BAB , saves and that adds to your clerics spell casting level. ( DragonSlayer comes to mind). If you do things right with your build you can have fighter type the likes that will make you DM cringe for making you play a different class. Also BUY lots of healing wands, you can stand and be the parties main dmg dealer or you can back off and just keep the other fighters healed with your wands. If you go the Evil route be a follower of Bane , goto level 4 in cleric, 2 levels in fighter, 2 levels in blackguard, level in dragonslayer , then back to cleric levels..Take Hatred and Destruction as domains and USE them..Again use wands of healing to heal your party members.. Either way get the following feats.. Power Attack Weapon focus Divin Might Extra Turning Extra smiting ( extremely useful with Destruction domain).. As far as gear goes Use a two - handed sword. Full plate as well. Have a potoin belt keep if filled with 4 cure lights 2 cure mods 2 cure serious 2 sancuary. Use your spell slot for buff spells mostly , Keep 1 Healing spell memmed for each spell level. Plan out your character progression so you know what feats youa re going ot get so you can easily make the requirements for PRCs.
A Man In Black 07-24-05, 09:00 PM	Clerics are melee oriented. Your DM screwwed up here, Clerics are fighters with spells for the most part. This is correct. The rest is somewhat iffy. The best core domains are Travel and Luck, hands down. Travel has an awesome power and lots of good spells, and Luck has the best domain power in the game. Magic is good and has some spells you can't get otherwise. The elemental domains and Sun are good for games where the domain powers are going to be useful (because the spells mostly work on the same foes as the domain powers). War is weak unless your deity has a really good favored weapon, Strength is awful and limits multiclassing, Healing is hideously weak, the alignment domains aren't much unless you've got a spell in mind to make the most of the caster level bonus, and Death is limited unless you can actually get some use out of the undead-creating spells. I would suggest putting your highest or 2nd highest stat in strength , then in wisdom , 3rd into charisma, fill out the rest from there. Wisdom first. Clerics are spellcasters. Strength next if you can't use Divine feats (primarily Divine Might). Make sure you have a 13 str, of course, for Power Attack. DITCH the half - orc. Try for Aasimar if at all possible , otherwise go human. Actually, cleric is one of the few things half-orcs don't suck at. Aasimar isn't really worth it, though, because of the level adjustment. I would suggest being a follower of Torm. Unless the game isn't in the Realms... [qute]Take your first 5 levels in Cleric, then take 2 levels in Paladin. Now look for a nice PRC out there.. something with decent BAB , saves and that adds to your clerics spell casting level. ( DragonSlayer comes to mind).[/quote] NO NO NO BAD IDEA NO DO NOT multiclass out of cleric into anything that isn't getting you caster levels. Period. Ever. It's not worth it. Likewise, you DO NOT want to lose caster levels if you can avoid it. Dragon Slayer is going to cost you five caster levels. You don't need to multiclass out of cleric to make an effective combatant. Divine Power and Righteous Might help keep you in the front line effectively. If you go the Evil route be a follower of Bane , goto level 4 in cleric, 2 levels in fighter, 2 levels in blackguard, level in dragonslayer , then back to cleric levels..Take Hatred and Destruction as domains and USE them..Again use wands of healing to heal your party members.. So you're going to be a level 9 character who casts like a level 5 cleric and only managed to gain two BAB and a couple smites out of the deal? Either way get the following feats.. Power Attack is a must-have, as is Extend Spell. Divine Might is great if you can get it, as is Divine Metamagic (especially combined with Persistent Spell). Extra Turning makes Divine Might and Divine Metamagic more potent, but isn't very good on its own except in a undead-heavy game. As with any caster, Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion are extremely potent and relatively cheap. Craft Magic Weapons/Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Craft Wand are potent as well, but you'll need to make sure your GM does use the 3.5 rules on giving lower-level characters more XP for challenges, in the event you fall behind because of the XP expenditures. As far as gear goes Use a two - handed sword. Full plate as well. Have a potoin belt keep if filled with 4 cure lights 2 cure mods 2 cure serious 2 sancuary. Longspear, spear, morning star, and heavy mace are all good picks for clerics who don't have martial weapon proficiency. You'll want a light crossbow, too, but I'm sure you can figure that out. Use your spell slot for buff spells mostly , Keep 1 Healing spell memmed for each spell level. Yes, you want to be buffing yourself and your friends, depending on what you're doing. As for the healing spells, prep stuff like Remove Blindness/Deafness and Lesser Restoration and such. If you need to do HP healing, trade in the status-healing spells for HP healing spells. Better yet, take a wand of cure light wounds for out-of-healing combat. (If you MUST be evil, try and take Spontaneous Healing, from Complete Divine.) My personal mix of spells for a cleric is two buffs to two status-healing to one utility when my cleric is going to be in a support role, and three buffs to one status healing to one utility when the cleric is going to be in a frontline role. Lesser Restoration, Remove B/D, and similar spells are great choices for scrolls. Plan out your character progression so you know what feats youa re going ot get so you can easily make the requirements for PRCs. This is good advice no matter what kind of character you're making.
StormCrow42 07-24-05, 09:26 PM	If you're in cleric for the healing, the Sun domain is worthwhile if you can take Radiant Servant of Pelor (or insert god with sun domain here). A Radiant Servant basically gains extra healing and undead turning power, as well as a third domain eventually, for absolutely no sacrifice in abilities.
A Man In Black 07-24-05, 10:03 PM	If you're in cleric for the healing, the Sun domain is worthwhile if you can take Radiant Servant of Pelor (or insert god with sun domain here). A Radiant Servant basically gains extra healing and undead turning power, as well as a third domain eventually, for absolutely no sacrifice in abilities. Obviously, any advice anyone gives is tempered by sacrifices for PrCs. Weapon Focus is a pretty sucky feat and Sun is a pretty sucky domain, but if you need them for a PrC, you need them for a PrC.
Feriin 07-25-05, 11:29 AM	This is correct. The rest is somewhat iffy. The best core domains are Travel and Luck, hands down. Travel has an awesome power and lots of good spells, and Luck has the best domain power in the game. Magic is good and has some spells you can't get otherwise. The elemental domains and Sun are good for games where the domain powers are going to be useful (because the spells mostly work on the same foes as the domain powers). War is weak unless your deity has a really good favored weapon, Strength is awful and limits multiclassing, Healing is hideously weak, the alignment domains aren't much unless you've got a spell in mind to make the most of the caster level bonus, and Death is limited unless you can actually get some use out of the undead-creating spells. Wisdom first. Clerics are spellcasters. Strength next if you can't use Divine feats (primarily Divine Might). Make sure you have a 13 str, of course, for Power Attack. Actually, cleric is one of the few things half-orcs don't suck at. Aasimar isn't really worth it, though, because of the level adjustment. Unless the game isn't in the Realms... [qute]Take your first 5 levels in Cleric, then take 2 levels in Paladin. Now look for a nice PRC out there.. something with decent BAB , saves and that adds to your clerics spell casting level. ( DragonSlayer comes to mind). NO NO NO BAD IDEA NO DO NOT multiclass out of cleric into anything that isn't getting you caster levels. Period. Ever. It's not worth it. Likewise, you DO NOT want to lose caster levels if you can avoid it. Dragon Slayer is going to cost you five caster levels. You don't need to multiclass out of cleric to make an effective combatant. Divine Power and Righteous Might help keep you in the front line effectively. So you're going to be a level 9 character who casts like a level 5 cleric and only managed to gain two BAB and a couple smites out of the deal? Power Attack is a must-have, as is Extend Spell. Divine Might is great if you can get it, as is Divine Metamagic (especially combined with Persistent Spell). Extra Turning makes Divine Might and Divine Metamagic more potent, but isn't very good on its own except in a undead-heavy game. As with any caster, Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion are extremely potent and relatively cheap. Craft Magic Weapons/Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Craft Wand are potent as well, but you'll need to make sure your GM does use the 3.5 rules on giving lower-level characters more XP for challenges, in the event you fall behind because of the XP expenditures. Longspear, spear, morning star, and heavy mace are all good picks for clerics who don't have martial weapon proficiency. You'll want a light crossbow, too, but I'm sure you can figure that out. Yes, you want to be buffing yourself and your friends, depending on what you're doing. As for the healing spells, prep stuff like Remove Blindness/Deafness and Lesser Restoration and such. If you need to do HP healing, trade in the status-healing spells for HP healing spells. Better yet, take a wand of cure light wounds for out-of-healing combat. (If you MUST be evil, try and take Spontaneous Healing, from Complete Divine.) My personal mix of spells for a cleric is two buffs to two status-healing to one utility when my cleric is going to be in a support role, and three buffs to one status healing to one utility when the cleric is going to be in a frontline role. Lesser Restoration, Remove B/D, and similar spells are great choices for scrolls. This is good advice no matter what kind of character you're making.[/QUOTE] I think you missed some of my underlying reasons for the class progressions listed. Saves are important, as is the BAB, in my clerics spells generally take a second place, used to buff then more or less forgetten for a few rounds.When I said take a level in Dragonslayer I meant Take ONLY 1 level dragonslayer. Also the OP sais the setting is Forgotten Realms. Ofcourse there are other things you can do for your clerics , what I listed above is what I like to do. sorry that not everything i wanted to quote is in the quote box.