Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Raindragn 07-01-05, 08:36 AM	Hey all, first time poster. Anyway, I've got a CN fighter who I'm gonna ride to epic. Like all fighters, he's got a soft spot for will saves, and the DM WILL start throwing charm spells and such to wrench control of him (he's done it other chars in other campaigns). So, I'm looking for suggestions on defending from that. I am already getting Iron Will, but my Wis bonus is a 0 (not negative, fortunately). I actually have some Epic stuff planned, and Epic Will is in the mix, too. I'm not really interested in any prestige classes that give slippery mind and such, unless it's an insane bonus over one or two lvls, just so I can get back to fighter (I really just wanna do the meatstick thing this time 'round). I've been looking around and I haven't seen too much in the way of feats that help other than the two I'm already getting. Are there any spells that I can pay to be made permanent that would help (provided I can get it approved by the DM)? Any and all suggestions would be welcome.
fallabel 07-01-05, 08:52 AM	What level are you at? And what god do you worship?
Kragg Bonemeal 07-01-05, 09:00 AM	Feats only go so far. Try a Ring of Mind Shielding. That's about the best a fighter can do. Later on, Epic-wise, maybe you can get a special item that has Mind Blank imbued in it... but that will be friggin' expensive. Just keep your own caster around with Dispel Magic readied.
Merestil Haye 07-01-05, 09:32 AM	A couple of ideas. Is your Wis 10 or 11? You don't say. If it's 11; Multiclass. A level of Cleric (say Kord from the PHB gods) will boost Will saves by 2 points. The Strength domain synergises nicely with your fighter. I'm sure there are other interesting domains associated with Kord. Put a point of ability boost into Wis to get 12 and a bonus spell. The downside is losing 1 point of base attack and an average of 1 hp. If you can get 12 Wisdom easily then consider taking Cleric to 4th; that will give you an additional +2 Wis, and gain access to some useful cleric spells such as Remove Paralysis. Items to boost your Wisdom always work, and synergise with the above option.
Raindragn 07-01-05, 09:56 AM	What level are you at? And what god do you worship? Just hit lvl 2, and I worship no god. My character is disenchanted with both the gods and governments (he is a scarred individual).
fallabel 07-01-05, 10:02 AM	Level 2 and you're already planning Epic stuff? Ambitious... Anyway, I was going to recommend a Tome of Understanding +5, but that's way above your level. At level 2, multiclassing really is the best option.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 07-01-05, 10:17 AM	there's always the peripat of wisdom stuff.
Mirikon 07-01-05, 10:18 AM	Hey all, first time poster. Anyway, I've got a CN fighter who I'm gonna ride to epic. Like all fighters, he's got a soft spot for will saves, and the DM WILL start throwing charm spells and such to wrench control of him (he's done it other chars in other campaigns). So, I'm looking for suggestions on defending from that. I am already getting Iron Will, but my Wis bonus is a 0 (not negative, fortunately). I actually have some Epic stuff planned, and Epic Will is in the mix, too. I'm not really interested in any prestige classes that give slippery mind and such, unless it's an insane bonus over one or two lvls, just so I can get back to fighter (I really just wanna do the meatstick thing this time 'round). I've been looking around and I haven't seen too much in the way of feats that help other than the two I'm already getting. Are there any spells that I can pay to be made permanent that would help (provided I can get it approved by the DM)? Any and all suggestions would be welcome. Get your hands on the best Wis boosting items you can. Use those Tomes of Wisdom upperfication like it was the daily paper. Cloaks of Resistance are also good. Another thing would be to be on the lookout for anything granting SR. Can't be charmed if the caster doesn't beat the SR, right?
danielinthewolvesden 07-01-05, 02:11 PM	Well, when you go into a PrC, make sure it's one with a Good Will save. There is also the Pious Templar, but that PrC doesn't seem to fit. A belt of Dwarvenkind would be cool. I have found that SR never works for the PC's. :weep:
Kintara 07-01-05, 02:14 PM	Hmm, Hexblades have a good Will save. I suppose you wouldn't happen to have a good Charsma score, would you? If so, a few levels of Hexblade would be nifty. Even if you don't, +3 Will and Mettle is pretty nice. Just get a Cloak of Charisma, and you'll have a nice save bonus vs. spells. Get a Vest of Resistance (which is in Complete Arcane, I believe), and you'll be good to go.
Raindragn 07-01-05, 03:29 PM	Wow, thanks all. That's a lot of good suggestions. I feel SO loved :D As for some of your comments: Planning epic- my DM is a serious tweeker, and from him I have picked up the habbit (& an MS Word doc to fill in the info) of planning a character to 36th lvl before ever playing. This char I've only filled out to lvl 20. Can't do Hexblade- Cha= 6. My human char (Kadesh) was severly scarred and left for dead by the gnolls who killed his wife, kids, and left him for dead. That day, Kadesh was a goat-herder no more. Here's the stats: Str 18 Dex 18 Con 18 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 6 I've made him a dual wielder with the exotic wpn Double Sword. I've got the feats packed pretty tight through 20th lvl, and only an idea of what I want beyond. First three feats were: Blooded, TWF, EWP: Double Sword. 2nd lvl gave me WPN Focus. As for tomes, they probably won't be available. This DM uses wishes for building stats. He doesn't see the practicality (from the crafter's point of view) for making such a tome instead of a Ring Of Three Wishes. Was planning on begging though- I don't have the bonuses to get both Perfect TWF AND Devastating Critacal, so I was gonna try and get a tome of +4 for Str or Dex. It'll probably take some flanagling. As for my original question, I'll probably go with a use-activated ring with Mind Blank charges, if not getting it cast on me permanently.
Kragg Bonemeal 07-01-05, 03:43 PM	Str 18 Dex 18 Con 18 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 6 For one... HOLY CR@P! As for my original question, I'll probably go with a use-activated ring with Mind Blank charges, if not getting it cast on me permanently. For two... Mind Blank is a very high level spell, so this will cost a LOT. You'd do better with the Mind Shielding. Not as much punch as the Mind Blank, but it does stop charm, suggestion, possession, etc.
danielinthewolvesden 07-01-05, 05:56 PM	Str 18 Dex 18 Con 18 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 6 . Why not INT10 and WIS 14? :confused:
Raindragn 07-01-05, 06:20 PM	Why not INT10 and WIS 14? :confused: A mistake. I was originally going to take Combat Expertise, which required a 13 Int. Forgot that's why I had the high Int when I cut it out of my char build. Woops :P True Story: I was engageed for 3 years. After knowing this woman for 4 1/2 years (before we broke it off) I was still calling her honey most of the time because I couldn't remember her name. Really. What can I say, I have a mind like a seive.
Kintara 07-01-05, 06:44 PM	You were going to? I still would, if I were you. There's some great feats off of Expertise.
Raindragn 07-01-05, 09:39 PM	You were going to? I still would, if I were you. There's some great feats off of Expertise. Went with Power Attack instead. Going with a theme of Hitting-A-Lot-While-Dealing-Mass-Damage. Getting Improved Crit, Dmg Penetration (Epic), TWF Tree, Imp Bull Rush. Going with light armors until I get Elven Chain or equiv, so I can keep my mobility. Yeah, I know, sounds like a Ranger. I just am not at all interested in casting this time.
was_fired 07-01-05, 09:57 PM	You know if you go straight fighter you have 15 feats ahead of you right? If you want to boost your will save get iron will next level. I strongly advise you pick up CE at some point since you never know when it will come in handy. The best piece of advise I can give you is that you shouldn't overplan your build. You don't know what your DM will throw at you so you shouldn't be thinking more than 8 levels in advance.
BeyondFated 07-01-05, 10:27 PM	Str 18 Dex 18 Con 18 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 6 --- For one... HOLY CR@P! Meh, his stats are pretty standard for my campaigns. Infact, with the WIS of 10 and the CHA of 6, he's sorta underpowered... I love our high-powered campaigns. :D
Gurv 07-01-05, 10:50 PM	The Ring of Mind Shielding is great, but it doesn't protect you against the real dangers of failing a Will save: mind-affecting effects. What you need to do is find a way to get a protection from [alignment] effect. This might be potions at low-level, used only when a threat becomes obvious. As you gain more resources, find methods that allow you to utilize the spell more often, and for as long as possible. The worst thing that an epic-oriented fighter can do is become a weapon in the hands of a foe; you'll soon be able to kill your own companions just by winning initative.
kliate 07-01-05, 10:52 PM	Umm...cloak of resistance? That +1 is a good start, after all. At higher levels, ring of counterspells filled with charm person, dominate person or other spells that tend to hit your character. At very high levels, ring of spell turning. Hit the caster with their own compulsion and see them enjoy it :)
One Wolf 07-01-05, 11:21 PM	Just out of curiosity, what system did you use to generate those stats? -One Wolf
Raindragn 07-01-05, 11:26 PM	[QUOTE=One Wolf]Just out of curiosity, what system did you use to generate those stats? DM said we could start with three 18s and three 10s, then swap 1 for 1 as desired. It was originally two 18s, but I was having trouble spreading out the points. I've only been playing D&D again for the past year. b4 that I played 2ed when it first came out.
One Wolf 07-01-05, 11:45 PM	Wow, under that system (and since you've accepted the 6 CHA) I would've gone . . . STR: 18 DEX: 13 CON: 18 INT: 13 WIS: 16 CHA: 6 Best of all worlds. (but would've should've could've never helped anybody) To answer your original question, you could put all your stat advancement points into wisdom, as well as the other things mentioned above. Your other stats don't really NEED more help. :) -One Wolf
Raindragn 07-02-05, 07:34 AM	Actually, I do need to boost my other stats. Following a TWF build, hopefully to perfect one day, and following a cleave, great cleave, improved crit to devastating crit plan. So as I see it, I'm still underpowered. Or am I just being greedy? ;P
The_Fan 07-02-05, 11:02 AM	You could ask the mage that if you ever start acting funny, to cast "dispel magic" on you immediately.
Raindragn 07-02-05, 12:09 PM	Party= Fighter (me); two rogues; Cleric; Druid NPC (occasional) So, no Wiz for it :P
Aeromus 07-02-05, 04:48 PM	Luck of Heroes +1 all saves Iron Will +2 will save Discipline + 1 will saves +4 total bonus from 3 feats.
Jherid 07-03-05, 12:43 PM	If you hadn't already set a build in stone I would've suggsted Occult Slayer, wonderful Prc for fighter types who want an edge against spell casters.
Steelborn86 07-03-05, 02:38 PM	You could take 3 levels of Human Paragon from UA. That will net you: +2 BAB +1 Fort, +1 Ref, +3 Will saves 1 bonus feat (can be any feat you qualify for, not just fighter ones, so you could take iron will with it) Additional permanent class skill, which would really help a fighter and to top it all off, a +2 bonus to one of your ability scores of your choice.
danielinthewolvesden 07-03-05, 02:50 PM	Luck of Heroes +1 all saves +4 total bonus from 3 feats. He has already taked "Blooded' which is his one regional feat. I would have taken something to boost your Will save like Bullheaded.
Milandros 07-03-05, 04:47 PM	Before people react, this is not intended to be a criticism of the poster or his question. There are many ways to play D&D and there is no "right" one. One of the points in "classic" D&D play is that various classes have strengths and weaknesses. You can never have it all; If you're a mage, never expect to have loads of hit points, if you're a fighter, expect to be vulnerable to mind-affecting magics, and so on. It does seem that you don't like the weakness that goes with the class. Fair enough; maybe you should speak with your DM and look at the "Gestalt Character" option from Unearthed Arcana? It basically lets you take the abilities of two classes every level. With this, you could easily create an exceptionally good fighter character with almost no weaknesses (monk abilities and saves would make a big difference). (Of course, you still wouldn't be great in the Arcana and Divine magic areas, but if you really feel the need for that as well, then you probably ought to be playing a superhero game like Champions with a monster point build :) )
20goingon1232 07-03-05, 11:01 PM	Try the Slayer PrC from the SRD. Never have to worry about Will saves again (ok, so I exaggerate...! :D) Item with permanent Protection vs Evil will also stop you from being dominated, charmed, etc.
Colmarr 07-03-05, 11:48 PM	This free adventure (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20050329a) from the WoTC website opens the door to magic items that grant resistance bonuses to one save only (in this case Will). The cost seems to have been calculated as the cost of a "+1 to all saves" item divided by 3 and rounded up. So, an item granting a +1 resistance bonus to Will would cost 350gp. A +2 item would be approx. 1500, a +3 item would be 3000gp, etc. It you wanted an item granting a bonus other than restistance, such as holy, the cost would be [bonus squared x 2000 / 3]. So a +1 item would be 700gp. A +2 item would be approx. 3000, and a +3 item would be approx 6000gp. The good news? They stack with each other, so you could get a +4 to will saves from two items for a cost of 4,500gp.
HorizonWalker 07-03-05, 11:59 PM	If it wasn't for that charisma, I'd have suggested the Paladin of Freedom variant from Unearthed Arcana. 4 levels of that wouldn't affect a Fighter that much, and this would net you several useful abilities, not the least which are: Divine Grace: Charisma bonus added to all saves. Yum! Immunity to Compulsion effects (most of the spells you are afraid of) and grants +4 to your allies saves vs. these effects. Spellcasting: yes, I know you don't want to be a caster, but you'd only actually get the spell with a 12 Wisdom. That having been said, Protection from Evil is a nice spell, even if only useable once per day. Spell-list: you could use scrolls and wands of Paladin spells, many of which are also Cleric spells. Lay on Hands: a little extra healing never hurt anyone. And did you say your group has a DRUID?! Don't be fooled, the Druid may be a divine spellcaster, but don't expect them to be able to patch you up the way a Cleric can! Given your build, the question is, exactly how dangerous are you when you fail a Will save? If you're REALLY dangerous, I have the following suggestion. Cumbrous Will [General] Prerequisites: Iron Will Benefit: before rolling a Will save, you can decide to activate this Feat, which gives you a +6 bonus on your saving throw. After the saving throw is resolved, regardless of the result, you are shaken until the end of the encounter. A shaken character takes a -2 morale penalty on attack rolls, checks, and saving throws. Source: Savage Species Combined with Iron Will, that's a potential +8 to a Will save! Shaken kind of hurts, but you may find a way to get around the penalty, and even if not, at high levels, you could take this penalty in your sleep. Not to mention, nothing prevents you from using this Feat multiple times per encounter (although penalties do stack, so that could get...troublesome).
20goingon1232 07-04-05, 12:26 AM	How would the penalties stack? Shaken is a condition. I don't think you can be more shaken than shaken, if you'll pardon the pun.
HorizonWalker 07-04-05, 01:02 AM	Ugh, lol. I saw (-2 morale penalty) and forgot why you were getting it. Morale penalties DO stack, but Shaken doesn't, you are correct. So basically, you can get +6 on a Will save, and then +4 on all other Will saves, if you don't mind a -2 penalty on attacks, checks, and non-Will saves.
Raindragn 07-05-05, 05:58 PM	Cumbrous Will [General] Prerequisites: Iron Will Benefit: before rolling a Will save, you can decide to activate this Feat, which gives you a +6 bonus on your saving throw. After the saving throw is resolved, regardless of the result, you are shaken until the end of the encounter. A shaken character takes a -2 morale penalty on attack rolls, checks, and saving throws. Source: Savage Species Combined with Iron Will, that's a potential +8 to a Will save! Shaken kind of hurts, but you may find a way to get around the penalty, and even if not, at high levels, you could take this penalty in your sleep. Not to mention, nothing prevents you from using this Feat multiple times per encounter (although penalties do stack, so that could get...troublesome). I had my DM look over this thread, and this is great news!! The 3.5 version of Blooded states that you cannot be shaken. So he has directly stated that I would not suffer the penalty for this feat. Thanks! I love you HorizonWalker. I want to have your babies.