Help with playing an Enlightened Fist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with playing an Enlightened Fist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kerelis
04-04-08, 12:10 PM In one campaign I am playing a human monk2/wzd3/Enlightened Fist 1. This is the first time I've ever played a monk-type, though I have played numerous wzds. I did it because I thought stacking mage armor/shield/cat's grace/bull's strength, etc would be cool--plus it would be interesting to use touch spells to good effect.

So far, compared with the other characters, all straight-class, I feel like the character is sucking. I know it will probably even out later but for now..bleh. I think I will level in Enlightened Fist till level 4 or 5 then go to Abjurant Champion.

Any suggestions for playing strategies for playing a monk effectively? Or for off-setting the balance of power between this multi-class character and the straight-class characters?
kelvinaw273
04-04-08, 01:18 PM OK, you have a monk ... monks are NOT substitute fighters. Get that straight. Where your character stands to gain is buffing, yes, but not just the normal buffs you'd use for a fighter.

Monks alone are best employed not so much as a second fighter as a mobile reserve. You can work as a decent backup to the scout, or the fighter, but you aren't going to do the job of both. Instead, concentrate on being where you are needed. Be the flank-buddy for the rogue (you are one of the few characters more mobile than he is) or the fighter, get behind enemy lines to take on their spellcaster ("Can you cast Magic Missile through broken teeth?"). Keep the BBEG busy while the party chew through his minions. The battle is won by who is fastest with the mostest - you are not the mostest, but you are often the fastest.

Now to use those spells:

Enhance your movement with benign transposition - trading places with a spellcaster about to get bashed is a nasty surprise for a foe.

Mage armour and shield should make your AC phenomenal, and well up there with the fighters at your level.

Cats grace and bull's strength are good, but have you considered owl's wisdom combined with true strike and a stunning fist?

Wraithstrike is so good it doesn't bear mentioning ...

Touch spells are good for you, especially Swift action casts, but think on about how you can enhance your strengths and cover your weaknesses. look at spells that will give you the advantage in any situation. Your lack of armor and mediocre BAB are an Achilles' heel that are easily covered by a few spells (as above), but that's just putting you on the fighter's level. Think about the foes he can't fight so well, and the tactical advantages you can reap with some teamwork.
Justaidan
04-05-08, 11:44 AM You should have a terrible base attack bonus from multiple dips into poor and medium BAB progression classes. Its about +2 right now.

Try to get your DM to use fractional BAB progression from unearthed arcana.
Medium progression (monk and enlightened fist) = 3/4 of an increase
Poor progression (wizard) = 1/2 of an increase

It should be 12/4 + 3/2 = 4 1/2 round down to +4, much better then +2. And frankly more approriate to the level you're at since even a commoner has a BAB of +3 at this level :)

Thats a lot of buffs to be casting in combat, either A: cast just before or B: find another tactic.

Kung Fu genius from dragon magazine subs INT for WIS for all monk class abilities but must be taken before or with the actual monk class. That would allow you to dump WIS to 10 and reduce MAD quite a bit.

Other prestige classes you should take are Abjurant champion (complete mage) for a good BAB progress and AC bonus to shield (not mage armour) and nifty abilities.

Feats: Superior unarmed strike and Improved natural attack to combine with greater mightly wallop (see below).

As for spells the bite of the were*various creatures* from spell compendium are excellant for you giving very large bonuses, Lv7 bite of the werebear gives +16 STR, CON, natural armour, power attack and some more bits,
they start at level 3 with bite of the wererat. Very short duration 1 round per level.

Greater mighty wallop (Races of the dragon) (lv3) increases the effective size of your unarmed strikes based on caster level. Mighty wallop is the weaker version of it. Sharp tooth (Draconium) stacks with the above but lasts only 1 round per level. Remember to apply these bonuses in the way that benefits the player most. Your unarmed damaged slowly increases and by lv20 could be in the region of 16D6-24D8 per punch (depending how far you go) average 56 or108 damage.

Suggested builds would be:
Monk2/Wizard3/Enlightened fist 10/Abjurant champion 5 if using non-fractional bab increases in whatever order you want.

Using fractional BAB increases:
Monk1/Wizard1/Human paragon3/Enlightened fist 10/Abjurant champion 5

For the abilities of the enlightened fist the best is the ability to channel touch attacks and hold ray so rays won't be wasted on a miss. The spell resistance comes a bit late to be really useful except against people who pose no threat anyway and the healing is really weak trade so instead focus on not being hit.

Vampiric touch does damage and gives you a nice temp Hp buffer from attacks
With good unarmed damage use bloodwind from spell compendium to allow your unarmed attacks to gain range of 10ft (max range 50ft) for one round.

NB: Can you give more detail on race, stats and feat choices so far?

Edit: Word to the wise wrath strike is too good for gish classes and I think it is too cheesy/unbalancing so I never use it as a player/DM. Likewise my DM has agreed never to have a CR20 red dragon use it in combination with power attack ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kerelis 04-04-08, 12:10 PM	In one campaign I am playing a human monk2/wzd3/Enlightened Fist 1. This is the first time I've ever played a monk-type, though I have played numerous wzds. I did it because I thought stacking mage armor/shield/cat's grace/bull's strength, etc would be cool--plus it would be interesting to use touch spells to good effect. So far, compared with the other characters, all straight-class, I feel like the character is sucking. I know it will probably even out later but for now..bleh. I think I will level in Enlightened Fist till level 4 or 5 then go to Abjurant Champion. Any suggestions for playing strategies for playing a monk effectively? Or for off-setting the balance of power between this multi-class character and the straight-class characters?
kelvinaw273 04-04-08, 01:18 PM	OK, you have a monk ... monks are NOT substitute fighters. Get that straight. Where your character stands to gain is buffing, yes, but not just the normal buffs you'd use for a fighter. Monks alone are best employed not so much as a second fighter as a mobile reserve. You can work as a decent backup to the scout, or the fighter, but you aren't going to do the job of both. Instead, concentrate on being where you are needed. Be the flank-buddy for the rogue (you are one of the few characters more mobile than he is) or the fighter, get behind enemy lines to take on their spellcaster ("Can you cast Magic Missile through broken teeth?"). Keep the BBEG busy while the party chew through his minions. The battle is won by who is fastest with the mostest - you are not the mostest, but you are often the fastest. Now to use those spells: Enhance your movement with benign transposition - trading places with a spellcaster about to get bashed is a nasty surprise for a foe. Mage armour and shield should make your AC phenomenal, and well up there with the fighters at your level. Cats grace and bull's strength are good, but have you considered owl's wisdom combined with true strike and a stunning fist? Wraithstrike is so good it doesn't bear mentioning ... Touch spells are good for you, especially Swift action casts, but think on about how you can enhance your strengths and cover your weaknesses. look at spells that will give you the advantage in any situation. Your lack of armor and mediocre BAB are an Achilles' heel that are easily covered by a few spells (as above), but that's just putting you on the fighter's level. Think about the foes he can't fight so well, and the tactical advantages you can reap with some teamwork.
Justaidan 04-05-08, 11:44 AM	You should have a terrible base attack bonus from multiple dips into poor and medium BAB progression classes. Its about +2 right now. Try to get your DM to use fractional BAB progression from unearthed arcana. Medium progression (monk and enlightened fist) = 3/4 of an increase Poor progression (wizard) = 1/2 of an increase It should be 12/4 + 3/2 = 4 1/2 round down to +4, much better then +2. And frankly more approriate to the level you're at since even a commoner has a BAB of +3 at this level :) Thats a lot of buffs to be casting in combat, either A: cast just before or B: find another tactic. Kung Fu genius from dragon magazine subs INT for WIS for all monk class abilities but must be taken before or with the actual monk class. That would allow you to dump WIS to 10 and reduce MAD quite a bit. Other prestige classes you should take are Abjurant champion (complete mage) for a good BAB progress and AC bonus to shield (not mage armour) and nifty abilities. Feats: Superior unarmed strike and Improved natural attack to combine with greater mightly wallop (see below). As for spells the bite of the werevarious creatures from spell compendium are excellant for you giving very large bonuses, Lv7 bite of the werebear gives +16 STR, CON, natural armour, power attack and some more bits, they start at level 3 with bite of the wererat. Very short duration 1 round per level. Greater mighty wallop (Races of the dragon) (lv3) increases the effective size of your unarmed strikes based on caster level. Mighty wallop is the weaker version of it. Sharp tooth (Draconium) stacks with the above but lasts only 1 round per level. Remember to apply these bonuses in the way that benefits the player most. Your unarmed damaged slowly increases and by lv20 could be in the region of 16D6-24D8 per punch (depending how far you go) average 56 or108 damage. Suggested builds would be: Monk2/Wizard3/Enlightened fist 10/Abjurant champion 5 if using non-fractional bab increases in whatever order you want. Using fractional BAB increases: Monk1/Wizard1/Human paragon3/Enlightened fist 10/Abjurant champion 5 For the abilities of the enlightened fist the best is the ability to channel touch attacks and hold ray so rays won't be wasted on a miss. The spell resistance comes a bit late to be really useful except against people who pose no threat anyway and the healing is really weak trade so instead focus on not being hit. Vampiric touch does damage and gives you a nice temp Hp buffer from attacks With good unarmed damage use bloodwind from spell compendium to allow your unarmed attacks to gain range of 10ft (max range 50ft) for one round. NB: Can you give more detail on race, stats and feat choices so far? Edit: Word to the wise wrath strike is too good for gish classes and I think it is too cheesy/unbalancing so I never use it as a player/DM. Likewise my DM has agreed never to have a CR20 red dragon use it in combination with power attack ;)