Help with reincarnation and Grey elf [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with reincarnation and Grey elf [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Linkrulesx10
08-27-05, 05:26 AM The above statement almost says it all. Does a grey elf keep it's int bonus when it gets reincarnated?
20goingon1232
08-28-05, 05:14 AM Yes. Reincarnation only gets rid of physical bonuses and penalties. You keep ALL mental stats.

It is debatable if you get rid of aging penalties, but my take on it is that it does.
ShadowDragon8685
08-28-05, 05:32 AM So, one way to achieve a messed-up form of immortality is to become Venerable, slay yourself, and yourself Reincarnated as a healthy young specimen of some other species. :)
Nom
08-28-05, 08:20 AM Unfortunately, the reincarnation rules are a game balance mess. They don't deal well with racial HD, and make a mess of LA. Consider a grey elf (Str + Con penalty, Int (+Dex) bonus) reincarnated as an orc (Str bonus, Int/Wis/Cha penalty). By the rules, the resulting racial mods are +4/+0/+0/+2/+0/+0. What LA do you use; that's not an LA+0 racial mod!

So yes, by the rules, your grey elf keeps his Int bonus (and unmodified Wis and Cha). IMO, the rules are broken; reincarnate should (at a minimum) change all racial characteristics from that point forward.
Linkrulesx10
08-29-05, 08:57 AM In the campaign Im in It got ruled that I don't keep my bonus so I'm looking for a good hard quote I can say to win the Argument.
Nom
08-29-05, 09:41 AM In the campaign Im in It got ruled that I don't keep my bonus so I'm looking for a good hard quote I can say to win the Argument.Good for your DM. As written, I believe the spell is mechanically broken, and I think your DM is correct in changing it.

That said, you might want to try writing customer service. It's been rumoured that on rare occasions they will send armed enforcers to your DM's house to force him to play by the rules exactly as written.
cambric
08-29-05, 10:18 AM In the campaign Im in It got ruled that I don't keep my bonus so I'm looking for a good hard quote I can say to win the Argument.

I agree it's broken, but per the SRD:

Reincarnate
Transmutation
Level: Drd 4
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than one week before the casting of the spell and the subject’s soul is free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
Since the dead creature is returning in a new body, all physical ills and afflictions are repaired. The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be reincarnated, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. The magic of the spell creates an entirely new young adult body for the soul to inhabit from the natural elements at hand. This process takes 1 hour to complete. When the body is ready, the subject is reincarnated.
A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores. The subject’s level (or Hit Dice) is reduced by 1. If the subject was 1st level, its new Constitution score is reduced by 2. (If this reduction would put its Con at 0 or lower, it can’t be reincarnated). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.
It’s possible for the change in the subject’s ability scores to make it difficult for it to pursue its previous character class. If this is the case, the subject is well advised to become a multiclass character.
For a humanoid creature, the new incarnation is determined using the following table. For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created.
A creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be returned to life by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be reincarnated. The spell cannot bring back a creature who has died of old age.

Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma will stay the same.

Cam
Linkrulesx10
08-29-05, 05:40 PM First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) He is using that part of the thing to eliminate my racial bonus to intell... IT doesn't seem to make sense to me....
Nom
08-29-05, 10:19 PM As Cam said, the text is quite clear that the "eliminate the subject's racial adjustments" is telling you how to modify Str, Dex and Con for the new body, and does not apply to the other scores. The sentence doesn't say "all racial adjustments" or even which adjustments, which means that it must apply to the last think spoken of that has racial adjustments - Str, Dex and Con.

You need to speak with your DM and figure out whether he is fixing the spell or just reading incorrectly.
20goingon1232
08-29-05, 10:22 PM So, one way to achieve a messed-up form of immortality is to become Venerable, slay yourself, and yourself Reincarnated as a healthy young specimen of some other species. :)
One word: "Inevitable" :D

Besides, your local nature deity might not like it too much if too many filthy humans start mucking up her backyard.
Linkrulesx10
08-30-05, 03:01 AM I am talking about racial traits not age traits. Any way where can I find the customer support that shall help me in my battle against the Dm that allows spell fire but not my int bonus. (This is a store run game and any official DnD books are allowed)
Linkrulesx10
09-11-05, 06:58 AM Sorry for the bump but has any one got a quote of customer service actually saying that the creature keeps it racial bonus to intell. If not could some one please give me a link I ca ncontact them on. Thanks in advance.
Nom
09-11-05, 07:25 AM If you look down the bottom of this page you will find a link that says "Contact us". Click it and follow the prompts.
Linkrulesx10
09-11-05, 07:42 AM Lol thank you... I hate this low wisdom of mine...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Linkrulesx10 08-27-05, 05:26 AM	The above statement almost says it all. Does a grey elf keep it's int bonus when it gets reincarnated?
20goingon1232 08-28-05, 05:14 AM	Yes. Reincarnation only gets rid of physical bonuses and penalties. You keep ALL mental stats. It is debatable if you get rid of aging penalties, but my take on it is that it does.
ShadowDragon8685 08-28-05, 05:32 AM	So, one way to achieve a messed-up form of immortality is to become Venerable, slay yourself, and yourself Reincarnated as a healthy young specimen of some other species. :)
Nom 08-28-05, 08:20 AM	Unfortunately, the reincarnation rules are a game balance mess. They don't deal well with racial HD, and make a mess of LA. Consider a grey elf (Str + Con penalty, Int (+Dex) bonus) reincarnated as an orc (Str bonus, Int/Wis/Cha penalty). By the rules, the resulting racial mods are +4/+0/+0/+2/+0/+0. What LA do you use; that's not an LA+0 racial mod! So yes, by the rules, your grey elf keeps his Int bonus (and unmodified Wis and Cha). IMO, the rules are broken; reincarnate should (at a minimum) change all racial characteristics from that point forward.
Linkrulesx10 08-29-05, 08:57 AM	In the campaign Im in It got ruled that I don't keep my bonus so I'm looking for a good hard quote I can say to win the Argument.
Nom 08-29-05, 09:41 AM	In the campaign Im in It got ruled that I don't keep my bonus so I'm looking for a good hard quote I can say to win the Argument.Good for your DM. As written, I believe the spell is mechanically broken, and I think your DM is correct in changing it. That said, you might want to try writing customer service. It's been rumoured that on rare occasions they will send armed enforcers to your DM's house to force him to play by the rules exactly as written.
cambric 08-29-05, 10:18 AM	In the campaign Im in It got ruled that I don't keep my bonus so I'm looking for a good hard quote I can say to win the Argument. I agree it's broken, but per the SRD: Reincarnate Transmutation Level: Drd 4 Components: V, S, M, DF Casting Time: 10 minutes Range: Touch Target: Dead creature touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None; see text Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than one week before the casting of the spell and the subject’s soul is free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw. Since the dead creature is returning in a new body, all physical ills and afflictions are repaired. The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be reincarnated, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. The magic of the spell creates an entirely new young adult body for the soul to inhabit from the natural elements at hand. This process takes 1 hour to complete. When the body is ready, the subject is reincarnated. A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores. The subject’s level (or Hit Dice) is reduced by 1. If the subject was 1st level, its new Constitution score is reduced by 2. (If this reduction would put its Con at 0 or lower, it can’t be reincarnated). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. It’s possible for the change in the subject’s ability scores to make it difficult for it to pursue its previous character class. If this is the case, the subject is well advised to become a multiclass character. For a humanoid creature, the new incarnation is determined using the following table. For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created. A creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be returned to life by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be reincarnated. The spell cannot bring back a creature who has died of old age. Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma will stay the same. Cam
Linkrulesx10 08-29-05, 05:40 PM	First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) He is using that part of the thing to eliminate my racial bonus to intell... IT doesn't seem to make sense to me....
Nom 08-29-05, 10:19 PM	As Cam said, the text is quite clear that the "eliminate the subject's racial adjustments" is telling you how to modify Str, Dex and Con for the new body, and does not apply to the other scores. The sentence doesn't say "all racial adjustments" or even which adjustments, which means that it must apply to the last think spoken of that has racial adjustments - Str, Dex and Con. You need to speak with your DM and figure out whether he is fixing the spell or just reading incorrectly.
20goingon1232 08-29-05, 10:22 PM	So, one way to achieve a messed-up form of immortality is to become Venerable, slay yourself, and yourself Reincarnated as a healthy young specimen of some other species. :) One word: "Inevitable" :D Besides, your local nature deity might not like it too much if too many filthy humans start mucking up her backyard.
Linkrulesx10 08-30-05, 03:01 AM	I am talking about racial traits not age traits. Any way where can I find the customer support that shall help me in my battle against the Dm that allows spell fire but not my int bonus. (This is a store run game and any official DnD books are allowed)
Linkrulesx10 09-11-05, 06:58 AM	Sorry for the bump but has any one got a quote of customer service actually saying that the creature keeps it racial bonus to intell. If not could some one please give me a link I ca ncontact them on. Thanks in advance.
Nom 09-11-05, 07:25 AM	If you look down the bottom of this page you will find a link that says "Contact us". Click it and follow the prompts.
Linkrulesx10 09-11-05, 07:42 AM	Lol thank you... I hate this low wisdom of mine...