Help with rogue 3.5 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with rogue 3.5 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kleive
10-01-05, 08:24 PM It's my turn to play a rogue so do I play a ninja,rogue.trickster or a fighter/rogue? Most of our settings are in dungeons not cities. Any andvice on what race and what type of rogue for 3.5 the rest of party is a paladin,druid and wizard. Even thought about a rogue cleric.
FlameLover
10-01-05, 09:01 PM I would play a Halfling Rogue for simplicty. Have Dex and Int as high as possible, and probably drop Cha and Str. So to use the elite array go Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 13 and Cha 8. That is for a sneak-attacky Rogue.

If you want a more martially-oriented one go for Human and switch Str and Wis around. Take 4 levels of fighter at some point too so you can get stuff like Weapon Specialization (Rapier), Weapon Finesse, etc.

For skills make sure to put plenty of ranks into Hide, Move Silently, Disable Device, Open Lock, and put some ranks into Jump, Swim and Climb for good measure. And last but not least use a finessible weapon and wear probably padded or leather armor.

Hope that helps!
Otto the Bugbear
10-01-05, 09:09 PM I see two routes that I'd consider for that party.

1. Rogue heading for Nightsong Enforcer. This will give you a better BAB than straight rogue, but at the expense of sneak attack dice. The PrC also has a couple of nice party boosting effects. This may not mesh well with the paladin in the party.

2. Rogue / Cleric heading for Shadowbane Stalker. This will do much better with the paladin, but cleric cuts down on rogue skills quite a bit. The paladin could also head for Shadowbane Inquisitor so the two of you would mesh well in the PrC department. Take between one (the minimum) and four levels of cleric. A few low level (1st and 2nd) cleric healing/utility spells always helps out a party, but it'll be at the expense of skill points.

I'd lean toward the second option more strongly thanks to the complimentary PrC. Even if the paladin doesn't take the inquisitor, you'll both be on the same page RP wise. Looking at 10th level, you could end up a Cleric 2 / Rogue 3 / Shadowbane Stalker 5; with 6 levels of cleric spells, 4d6 sneak attack, and some other goodies which are kinda nice, but not overpowering.

Cheers

Otto :)
theif lord
10-01-05, 09:31 PM if your adventuring in alot of dungeons be a rogue concentrated on hiding and sneaking, because when you think about it their are alot of good hiding places in a dungeon. oh and a couple lvls dungeon delver from song and silence would help
^Graff_EpsilonIX
10-01-05, 09:42 PM Just a straight rogue would work. Maybe some fun acrobatic stuff to make use of the tight spaces. Thief acrobat from song and silence... sproing slash. Maybe look at the up the walls feat. Make the most out of your dungeon environment.
Otto the Bugbear
10-01-05, 09:55 PM Uh, he did say 3.5; Song and Silence is not.

Both Dungeon Delver and Thief-Acrobat have been updated and changed for 3.5. They can be found in Complete Adventurer. They're both great for 4 levels at lease, and the DD in particular for more levels than that.

They're both good suggestions and two of my favorite PrCs. The big problem is they are both a rogue's rogue PrC. Neither fits the bill for rogue / fighter or rogue / cleric, as the OP mentioned in his original post.

Cheers

Otto :)
laxrulz7
10-01-05, 09:57 PM is pretty neat if you're looking for something different... You cover all the normal rogue bases (traps, hiding, etc.) and get some nifty abilities on the side...
Psychoticpsymon
10-01-05, 10:03 PM Assassin!

Just such a great class, sneak attack + true strike + death strike + (ring of blinking or spell:invisibility) Really high int! Class skill bonuses!

Take scribe scroll
On days where everyone heals, scribe some scrolls of true strike. 1exp 12.5 gp, 36 minutes. Sell them to party or use them for killing stuff.

Max Move Silently, Hide, Bluff, UMD etc. Disguise. For early invisibility if u dont get a blink ring, buy scrolls and umd them, if you can.
dan1234
10-02-05, 01:37 AM lol, what do you mean it's your turn to play rogue??? You guys take turns, with rogues?? I seriously don't get it. . .

Sry, I am just curious.
laxrulz7
10-02-05, 11:59 AM general disdain for certain archetypes (usually cleric or rogue IME). Often they "take turns" or "last one that makes a character plays the thief" etc.
ArcImpulse
10-02-05, 01:33 PM Assassin!

Just such a great class, sneak attack + true strike + death strike + (ring of blinking or spell:invisibility) Really high int! Class skill bonuses!

Take scribe scroll
On days where everyone heals, scribe some scrolls of true strike. 1exp 12.5 gp, 36 minutes. Sell them to party or use them for killing stuff.

Max Move Silently, Hide, Bluff, UMD etc. Disguise. For early invisibility if u dont get a blink ring, buy scrolls and umd them, if you can.

First off, unless you were able to get the DM to alter the requirements for Assassin (alignment: any evil), he wouldn't be able to take that class because of the paladin in the party.

Also, unless he took a level in wizard/sorcerer, he wouldn't have access to the True Strike spell. However, with there being a wizard in the party already, it might be a little redundant.

Rings of Blinking cost at least 27,000 gold if you're just buying it straight. If you didn't buy it straight, you'd need to have at least a 12th level wizard/bard/sorcerer. You'd have to have a VERY generous DM to get that anywhere "early" in the game. If you still wanted invisibility, your best bet would either be to use potions or scrolls.

That being said, the rogue/cleric or straight rogue would probably be one of the better choices for you to choose.
Light of Day
10-02-05, 02:56 PM Rogue/spellcasters can be fun. Remember that any ray or touch spell that deals damage is a potential sneak attack. Rogue/clerics can be particularly nice in this respect. Inflict serious wounds + sneak attack, anyone? Skills are a problem for this one, though...

Also, I can't say I've tried this myself before, but I imagine rogue/monk could work pretty nicely. The skill sets dovetail quite nicely as far as sneaking and acrobatics are concerned, and I'd imagine a stunning fist followed up by a flurry of sneak attacks would hurt quite a bit. The Ascetic Rogue feat from Complete Adventurer is nice for this build, allowing you to freely multiclass between monk and rogue.

As for races, as far as core races are concerned, it's a toss-up between human, elf and halfling. Humans have the extra skillpoints and feat. They're worth considering for just about ANY build, but I don't think they're the best rogues out there. Halflings have a dex bonus (always good for a rogue), as well as small size (between the bonus to attack rolls, AC, and hide checks this is an ADVANTAGE to rogues). They also have that nasty 20-foot movement rate, which may or may not be a concern to you (I know it is to me). The next choice is elves. We lose the small size, but in return we get faster movement. We still have the all-important bonus to dex, and we have a higher strength as well. We have less con, though, which can be bad if you get in melee combat much. One very nice aspect of elven rogues is their ability to get automatic search checks for secret doors. As a rogue, you'll probably have quite a few ranks in rearch, making this fairly worthwile.

My all-time favorite rogue race is kobold, though (although I'm a little biased on this one. I love anything with scales, basically). We combine a dex bonus, small size, darkvision (important for sneaking up on people in the dark), 30-foot movement rate, the best AC I've ever seen in a LA +0 race, and a racial bonus on search checks. The downsides? -4 to strength, -2 to con, common isn't an automatic language for you, and you'll likely be run out of most towns you set foot in. The con penalty is no worse than an elf, the language barrier is no problem if you have INT 12+ and pick common up as a bonus language, and the not-too-popular-with-the-other-races thing isn't going to be such a big deal in a dungeon. The real problem is that -4 to strength. You'd have to accept that a kobold rogue is never gonna do much damage, even with sneak attack, or find ways to do damage without your strength bonus. Using a crossbow works fairly well here, as do spells (rogue/sorceror/arcane trickster could work for this, as could spending a whole load of skill points in use magic device and making your weapon of choice a wand of acid splash). The downside to both of those is you can't flank with spells or ranged weapons, making it more difficult to get sneak attacks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kleive 10-01-05, 08:24 PM	It's my turn to play a rogue so do I play a ninja,rogue.trickster or a fighter/rogue? Most of our settings are in dungeons not cities. Any andvice on what race and what type of rogue for 3.5 the rest of party is a paladin,druid and wizard. Even thought about a rogue cleric.
FlameLover 10-01-05, 09:01 PM	I would play a Halfling Rogue for simplicty. Have Dex and Int as high as possible, and probably drop Cha and Str. So to use the elite array go Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 13 and Cha 8. That is for a sneak-attacky Rogue. If you want a more martially-oriented one go for Human and switch Str and Wis around. Take 4 levels of fighter at some point too so you can get stuff like Weapon Specialization (Rapier), Weapon Finesse, etc. For skills make sure to put plenty of ranks into Hide, Move Silently, Disable Device, Open Lock, and put some ranks into Jump, Swim and Climb for good measure. And last but not least use a finessible weapon and wear probably padded or leather armor. Hope that helps!
Otto the Bugbear 10-01-05, 09:09 PM	I see two routes that I'd consider for that party. 1. Rogue heading for Nightsong Enforcer. This will give you a better BAB than straight rogue, but at the expense of sneak attack dice. The PrC also has a couple of nice party boosting effects. This may not mesh well with the paladin in the party. 2. Rogue / Cleric heading for Shadowbane Stalker. This will do much better with the paladin, but cleric cuts down on rogue skills quite a bit. The paladin could also head for Shadowbane Inquisitor so the two of you would mesh well in the PrC department. Take between one (the minimum) and four levels of cleric. A few low level (1st and 2nd) cleric healing/utility spells always helps out a party, but it'll be at the expense of skill points. I'd lean toward the second option more strongly thanks to the complimentary PrC. Even if the paladin doesn't take the inquisitor, you'll both be on the same page RP wise. Looking at 10th level, you could end up a Cleric 2 / Rogue 3 / Shadowbane Stalker 5; with 6 levels of cleric spells, 4d6 sneak attack, and some other goodies which are kinda nice, but not overpowering. Cheers Otto :)
theif lord 10-01-05, 09:31 PM	if your adventuring in alot of dungeons be a rogue concentrated on hiding and sneaking, because when you think about it their are alot of good hiding places in a dungeon. oh and a couple lvls dungeon delver from song and silence would help
^Graff_EpsilonIX 10-01-05, 09:42 PM	Just a straight rogue would work. Maybe some fun acrobatic stuff to make use of the tight spaces. Thief acrobat from song and silence... sproing slash. Maybe look at the up the walls feat. Make the most out of your dungeon environment.
Otto the Bugbear 10-01-05, 09:55 PM	Uh, he did say 3.5; Song and Silence is not. Both Dungeon Delver and Thief-Acrobat have been updated and changed for 3.5. They can be found in Complete Adventurer. They're both great for 4 levels at lease, and the DD in particular for more levels than that. They're both good suggestions and two of my favorite PrCs. The big problem is they are both a rogue's rogue PrC. Neither fits the bill for rogue / fighter or rogue / cleric, as the OP mentioned in his original post. Cheers Otto :)
laxrulz7 10-01-05, 09:57 PM	is pretty neat if you're looking for something different... You cover all the normal rogue bases (traps, hiding, etc.) and get some nifty abilities on the side...
Psychoticpsymon 10-01-05, 10:03 PM	Assassin! Just such a great class, sneak attack + true strike + death strike + (ring of blinking or spell:invisibility) Really high int! Class skill bonuses! Take scribe scroll On days where everyone heals, scribe some scrolls of true strike. 1exp 12.5 gp, 36 minutes. Sell them to party or use them for killing stuff. Max Move Silently, Hide, Bluff, UMD etc. Disguise. For early invisibility if u dont get a blink ring, buy scrolls and umd them, if you can.
dan1234 10-02-05, 01:37 AM	lol, what do you mean it's your turn to play rogue??? You guys take turns, with rogues?? I seriously don't get it. . . Sry, I am just curious.
laxrulz7 10-02-05, 11:59 AM	general disdain for certain archetypes (usually cleric or rogue IME). Often they "take turns" or "last one that makes a character plays the thief" etc.
ArcImpulse 10-02-05, 01:33 PM	Assassin! Just such a great class, sneak attack + true strike + death strike + (ring of blinking or spell:invisibility) Really high int! Class skill bonuses! Take scribe scroll On days where everyone heals, scribe some scrolls of true strike. 1exp 12.5 gp, 36 minutes. Sell them to party or use them for killing stuff. Max Move Silently, Hide, Bluff, UMD etc. Disguise. For early invisibility if u dont get a blink ring, buy scrolls and umd them, if you can. First off, unless you were able to get the DM to alter the requirements for Assassin (alignment: any evil), he wouldn't be able to take that class because of the paladin in the party. Also, unless he took a level in wizard/sorcerer, he wouldn't have access to the True Strike spell. However, with there being a wizard in the party already, it might be a little redundant. Rings of Blinking cost at least 27,000 gold if you're just buying it straight. If you didn't buy it straight, you'd need to have at least a 12th level wizard/bard/sorcerer. You'd have to have a VERY generous DM to get that anywhere "early" in the game. If you still wanted invisibility, your best bet would either be to use potions or scrolls. That being said, the rogue/cleric or straight rogue would probably be one of the better choices for you to choose.
Light of Day 10-02-05, 02:56 PM	Rogue/spellcasters can be fun. Remember that any ray or touch spell that deals damage is a potential sneak attack. Rogue/clerics can be particularly nice in this respect. Inflict serious wounds + sneak attack, anyone? Skills are a problem for this one, though... Also, I can't say I've tried this myself before, but I imagine rogue/monk could work pretty nicely. The skill sets dovetail quite nicely as far as sneaking and acrobatics are concerned, and I'd imagine a stunning fist followed up by a flurry of sneak attacks would hurt quite a bit. The Ascetic Rogue feat from Complete Adventurer is nice for this build, allowing you to freely multiclass between monk and rogue. As for races, as far as core races are concerned, it's a toss-up between human, elf and halfling. Humans have the extra skillpoints and feat. They're worth considering for just about ANY build, but I don't think they're the best rogues out there. Halflings have a dex bonus (always good for a rogue), as well as small size (between the bonus to attack rolls, AC, and hide checks this is an ADVANTAGE to rogues). They also have that nasty 20-foot movement rate, which may or may not be a concern to you (I know it is to me). The next choice is elves. We lose the small size, but in return we get faster movement. We still have the all-important bonus to dex, and we have a higher strength as well. We have less con, though, which can be bad if you get in melee combat much. One very nice aspect of elven rogues is their ability to get automatic search checks for secret doors. As a rogue, you'll probably have quite a few ranks in rearch, making this fairly worthwile. My all-time favorite rogue race is kobold, though (although I'm a little biased on this one. I love anything with scales, basically). We combine a dex bonus, small size, darkvision (important for sneaking up on people in the dark), 30-foot movement rate, the best AC I've ever seen in a LA +0 race, and a racial bonus on search checks. The downsides? -4 to strength, -2 to con, common isn't an automatic language for you, and you'll likely be run out of most towns you set foot in. The con penalty is no worse than an elf, the language barrier is no problem if you have INT 12+ and pick common up as a bonus language, and the not-too-popular-with-the-other-races thing isn't going to be such a big deal in a dungeon. The real problem is that -4 to strength. You'd have to accept that a kobold rogue is never gonna do much damage, even with sneak attack, or find ways to do damage without your strength bonus. Using a crossbow works fairly well here, as do spells (rogue/sorceror/arcane trickster could work for this, as could spending a whole load of skill points in use magic device and making your weapon of choice a wand of acid splash). The downside to both of those is you can't flank with spells or ranged weapons, making it more difficult to get sneak attacks.