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help..... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
homey188
07-11-05, 09:32 AM i need advice on dealing my my group. theres 23 (yes 23) people in it, i dont know much but i do know that;:rant: im the only cleric,there 4 wizards, no rogue,over 3 rangers,3barbairians,the dm appointed leader is a shape-happy druid with no clue what hes doing
wizard:"help! the goblins are comeing over the wall".
druid:i can turn into a eagle*flys in circles*:headexplo
theres a paladin or two and the rest i dont know.oh and did I mention, in 23 poeple, im the only cleric!?:banghead:!?I nead advice, before i take first watch and take them out in thier sleep....
LCD2YOU
07-11-05, 09:35 AM With that many players, I don't see how any gaming is done.
fallabel
07-11-05, 09:39 AM Sounds like a joke.
homey188
07-11-05, 09:48 AM i was there for an hour,all we got to do was move from a boat to an inn and back to a boat
its not a joke, my dm is considering putting anyone who knows what thier doing on a different group, there will be like 4 people
Helmed Horror
07-11-05, 10:15 AM yea... split into smaller groups man. Or the ones who now what the heck is going on shall be appointed as assisstant DM's.

I can see like 1 main DM. 5 assistants... 17 or w/e players..

oh btw... that isn't technically a party anymore...thats more of an armada...

You are also insanely lucky to even HAVE 23 PLAYERS YOU PLAY WITH!!!!

I can barley find 4.
homey188
07-11-05, 10:17 AM 23 people because its a summer school program,and we still lose to zombies and goblins
MarkB
07-11-05, 10:57 AM 23 players? That's crazy. Summer school programme or not, it's still crazy. D&D simply isn't designed to sustain a coherent game with those numbers.

Presumably the DM is whoever is running this programme. Instead of DMing one big game, he should choose five competent, willing players and have each of them DM a group, while he acts as a general helper and adviser, moving from group to group as necessary.
Thorak
07-11-05, 11:36 AM 23 players? That's crazy. Summer school programme or not, it's still crazy. D&D simply isn't designed to sustain a coherent game with those numbers.

Presumably the DM is whoever is running this programme. Instead of DMing one big game, he should choose five competent, willing players and have each of them DM a group, while he acts as a general helper and adviser, moving from group to group as necessary.
Reiterated. 23 people isn't a workable group. It's 4-5 workable groups. I've played with 6 PCs, and that was pushing it, each player was getting bored in the off-time.

You'd be much better off splitting the group up into groups of 4-6 people, with a DM for each (so 1 DM, 3-5 players). Feel free to keep contact between the groups, or even have an UberDM (especially if your current DM is the only guy with real experience at it), and each of the separate groups are doing separate portions of the big-picture campaign. You could have some interesting interactions, there, as two groups run into each other (and both groups get together for a big play session).

But definitely break it up. 23 people is far too much. Consider; only one person can talk at a given time and have the DM hear them. So, in combat, if it takes you 1 minute to roll your dice and perform your action, you'll be sitting there for 20+ minutes for your next round. And that's fairly fast-paced; there's no way my 3-PC group goes through a round every 3 minutes in combat.
WizardlyFriend
07-11-05, 11:44 AM But definitely break it up. 23 people is far too much. Consider; only one person can talk at a given time and have the DM hear them. So, in combat, if it takes you 1 minute to roll your dice and perform your action, you'll be sitting there for 20+ minutes for your next round. And that's fairly fast-paced; there's no way my 3-PC group goes through a round every 3 minutes in combat.

It takes about a minute per person, and then hopefully the DM can do all the monsters in a minute. but with 23 people, how many monsters is that? i suspect that PCs will drop like flies if people don't know wht they are doing.

okay 6 of the monsters goes to PC 1, and 6 more to PC 2, and 6 more to PC 3, and 5 more to PC 4. they all attack and PCs 1-4 drop from lots of damage.
homey188
07-11-05, 12:00 PM the encounters are usaully,11 monsters like zombies or 3 goblins and 2 leaders, there was one time this dm sent 15 lv1 chars against a skeleton army, we died there. and he has house rules like" if you talk out of turn,the great dm shall smite you for 2d20+5!" fortunatly he lets us split up often, my real problem is that most poeple dont know what thier doing, and theres on ly 3 healers and on of them is constantly wildshaping(a barbarian offed me 180gp to off him) and sometimes combat can take several sessions (im convincing the fighter to take cleave instead of skill focus ).and monsters ussually attack whoever deals them the most damage or kills their buddies
High Octane
07-11-05, 12:10 PM I concur about dividing the group. Thats 4-6 groups, not 1.

Find new DMs. If you dont get volunteers, simply pick them. Eliminate possible candidates that will not work, and pick from the crop. In 23 players there is bound to be a few that can DM.

Perhaps you yourself can do it. There is another section for you if you need help. If you want, you can even PM me. From the sound of things, you have an immense swarm of potential new D&D players, and I would consider it an honor of sorts to help them stay in the D&D world.
homey188
07-11-05, 12:17 PM the main dm is the librarian at our scool, he has 2 assistants that are from a higher grade
MarkB
07-11-05, 01:06 PM the main dm is the librarian at our scool, he has 2 assistants that are from a higher grade
That's two potential independent DMs there for a start. The group would still be overlarge split in three, but it would be a major improvement.

Frankly, in a group of 23 players, draconic houserules like smiting for talking out of turn seem to be simultaneously the only way to maintain any kind of order, an arbitrary imposition of DM power, and a guarantee of interminable boredom between turns. Aside from anything else, it's a clear indication that this situation isn't working at all.

Those players who are having trouble with the rules need individual attention and guidance, and there's no way they can get it in this situation without further draining time from the other players.
Bruunwald
07-11-05, 01:27 PM Back in high school, my girlfriend would drag me to a game with about 12 people. You know what gone done? Absolutely ziltch. Not a damn thing. Not a single die was rolled. The DM never got past the first description in two whole sessions. The second time, after half the people left (they got bored and went to get stoned), the serious players stayed behind, and I ran a game for those who remained, and we had a blast.

Split that group up.
Jonnadiah
07-11-05, 01:38 PM I am playing in a campaign with 5 other people and it takes an obscenely long time to complete anything. I don't know how you even get through a round or even sit at a table.

At places like Cons, where there are a lot of people, several tables are set up, each with a limit of about 5. If you get one other person to DM (including the librarian and his 2 assistants) then you should be fine. Either that or do like 4 way PvP battles or something.
homey188
07-11-05, 02:20 PM Frankly, in a group of 23 players, draconic houserules like smiting for talking out of turn seem to be simultaneously the only way to maintain any kind of order, an arbitrary imposition of DM power, and a guarantee of interminable boredom between turns. Aside from anything else, it's a clear indication that this situation isn't working at all.

its more like if the dm is helping the scout figure out his spot mod,and someone shouts out that he wants to buy a new sword the dm would say"you trip over a root and take 3 damage".we actually lose some people that way.and it works good,onetime i was in a 2d ed adventure with that dm and some person kept shouting out about not having enough turns in a round(isnt one enough?) so that character was sent to the abyss(at 1st level), we were perfectly orderly for the rest of that dungeon
Phrennzy
07-11-05, 09:52 PM If I were the DM for 23 players, I would take my own life.
SnowbearK
07-11-05, 11:13 PM :uh-huh: :nonono:

A) This is a joke, ha ha, go away.

B) This is not a joke, your DM is a novice (perhaps even a newbie) and should be shot with a hammer if he even contemplates trying this again.

C) This is not a joke, your DM is "experienced," and a complete idiot.

D) This is not a joke, somehow an inmate..er..patient, got internet access and is describing what might be referred to as "group therapy" except the patients are running the asylum.

Make your selection from my responses as best fits the reality of the situation. If you have chosen selection D, please also dial 911 and explain the matter to them as well. I'm certain they will be happy to assist in case the rest of us will not. Should you experience a sudden drop in cabin pressure, the oxygen masks will fall from the ceiling. Immediately place yours over your own head before attempting to help others. This will start the flow of nitrous oxide, so that you may enjoy your final few moments before landing.

I think that about covers it, thank you and good night.
homey188
07-12-05, 07:26 AM im doing a 3 strike system, if someone is stupid 3 times, ISW, it is enough to knock out most people in my group:evillaugh
LCD2YOU
07-12-05, 09:04 AM If I were the DM for 23 players, I would take my own life.If I wanted to take my own life, DMing for 23 people would be a good way to do it.
homey188
07-12-05, 09:51 AM i just got back from a session,the dm solved the problem by having some players team up and split the group for working in shifts at the area , or having all rangers track at one time, all wizards cast at one time,or he lets us make our own subgroups,we finished half the campaighn in a hour
Jonnadiah
07-12-05, 10:55 AM i just got back from a session,the dm solved the problem by having some players team up and split the group for working in shifts at the area , or having all rangers track at one time, all wizards cast at one time,or he lets us make our own subgroups,we finished half the campaighn in a hour

That's an awfully short campaign. Did you mean adventure? The campaign I'm DMing was meant to be short and we've already had close to 13 hours of session total and we're only about 15% of the way there.
homey188
07-12-05, 01:32 PM its an adventure not campaighn, i cant tell the difference
UltimateReality
07-12-05, 04:45 PM its an adventure not campaighn, i cant tell the difference
A campaign is like a television series, an adventure is an individual episode. Sometimes campaigns have chapters. These are like an entire season of the series.
Sprain Ogre
07-12-05, 06:16 PM I once DMed a group that was made up of, onaverage 12 people (although the number was as low as 8 some weeks, and as high as 16 other weeks). 12 was insane! 16, well I tried REAL hard, and I walked around the table a lot to make usre everyone was doing something. I started the campaign with a CoDM, but he went out of state for college right as the party was getting big. Even though I now run a group that's made up of 4-6 players (depending on who can show up week-by-week) my DM style has yet to recover from it. I cann't seem to reset my mindset to lower the CR curve I run, and I keep letting small side conversations run on and on (becouse when you have a dozen players, who can refocus when their turns come up, side talk isn't too big of a problem). I don't think I'd ever want to run a group of more then 8 people (and that's streching it) again, much less 23. Spilt the group up. You'll end up with more stuff being done, happier players, and a less stressed DM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
homey188 07-11-05, 09:32 AM	i need advice on dealing my my group. theres 23 (yes 23) people in it, i dont know much but i do know that;:rant: im the only cleric,there 4 wizards, no rogue,over 3 rangers,3barbairians,the dm appointed leader is a shape-happy druid with no clue what hes doing wizard:"help! the goblins are comeing over the wall". druid:i can turn into a eagleflys in circles:headexplo theres a paladin or two and the rest i dont know.oh and did I mention, in 23 poeple, im the only cleric!?:banghead:!?I nead advice, before i take first watch and take them out in thier sleep....
LCD2YOU 07-11-05, 09:35 AM	With that many players, I don't see how any gaming is done.
fallabel 07-11-05, 09:39 AM	Sounds like a joke.
homey188 07-11-05, 09:48 AM	i was there for an hour,all we got to do was move from a boat to an inn and back to a boat its not a joke, my dm is considering putting anyone who knows what thier doing on a different group, there will be like 4 people
Helmed Horror 07-11-05, 10:15 AM	yea... split into smaller groups man. Or the ones who now what the heck is going on shall be appointed as assisstant DM's. I can see like 1 main DM. 5 assistants... 17 or w/e players.. oh btw... that isn't technically a party anymore...thats more of an armada... You are also insanely lucky to even HAVE 23 PLAYERS YOU PLAY WITH!!!! I can barley find 4.
homey188 07-11-05, 10:17 AM	23 people because its a summer school program,and we still lose to zombies and goblins
MarkB 07-11-05, 10:57 AM	23 players? That's crazy. Summer school programme or not, it's still crazy. D&D simply isn't designed to sustain a coherent game with those numbers. Presumably the DM is whoever is running this programme. Instead of DMing one big game, he should choose five competent, willing players and have each of them DM a group, while he acts as a general helper and adviser, moving from group to group as necessary.
Thorak 07-11-05, 11:36 AM	23 players? That's crazy. Summer school programme or not, it's still crazy. D&D simply isn't designed to sustain a coherent game with those numbers. Presumably the DM is whoever is running this programme. Instead of DMing one big game, he should choose five competent, willing players and have each of them DM a group, while he acts as a general helper and adviser, moving from group to group as necessary. Reiterated. 23 people isn't a workable group. It's 4-5 workable groups. I've played with 6 PCs, and that was pushing it, each player was getting bored in the off-time. You'd be much better off splitting the group up into groups of 4-6 people, with a DM for each (so 1 DM, 3-5 players). Feel free to keep contact between the groups, or even have an UberDM (especially if your current DM is the only guy with real experience at it), and each of the separate groups are doing separate portions of the big-picture campaign. You could have some interesting interactions, there, as two groups run into each other (and both groups get together for a big play session). But definitely break it up. 23 people is far too much. Consider; only one person can talk at a given time and have the DM hear them. So, in combat, if it takes you 1 minute to roll your dice and perform your action, you'll be sitting there for 20+ minutes for your next round. And that's fairly fast-paced; there's no way my 3-PC group goes through a round every 3 minutes in combat.
WizardlyFriend 07-11-05, 11:44 AM	But definitely break it up. 23 people is far too much. Consider; only one person can talk at a given time and have the DM hear them. So, in combat, if it takes you 1 minute to roll your dice and perform your action, you'll be sitting there for 20+ minutes for your next round. And that's fairly fast-paced; there's no way my 3-PC group goes through a round every 3 minutes in combat. It takes about a minute per person, and then hopefully the DM can do all the monsters in a minute. but with 23 people, how many monsters is that? i suspect that PCs will drop like flies if people don't know wht they are doing. okay 6 of the monsters goes to PC 1, and 6 more to PC 2, and 6 more to PC 3, and 5 more to PC 4. they all attack and PCs 1-4 drop from lots of damage.
homey188 07-11-05, 12:00 PM	the encounters are usaully,11 monsters like zombies or 3 goblins and 2 leaders, there was one time this dm sent 15 lv1 chars against a skeleton army, we died there. and he has house rules like" if you talk out of turn,the great dm shall smite you for 2d20+5!" fortunatly he lets us split up often, my real problem is that most poeple dont know what thier doing, and theres on ly 3 healers and on of them is constantly wildshaping(a barbarian offed me 180gp to off him) and sometimes combat can take several sessions (im convincing the fighter to take cleave instead of skill focus ).and monsters ussually attack whoever deals them the most damage or kills their buddies
High Octane 07-11-05, 12:10 PM	I concur about dividing the group. Thats 4-6 groups, not 1. Find new DMs. If you dont get volunteers, simply pick them. Eliminate possible candidates that will not work, and pick from the crop. In 23 players there is bound to be a few that can DM. Perhaps you yourself can do it. There is another section for you if you need help. If you want, you can even PM me. From the sound of things, you have an immense swarm of potential new D&D players, and I would consider it an honor of sorts to help them stay in the D&D world.
homey188 07-11-05, 12:17 PM	the main dm is the librarian at our scool, he has 2 assistants that are from a higher grade
MarkB 07-11-05, 01:06 PM	the main dm is the librarian at our scool, he has 2 assistants that are from a higher grade That's two potential independent DMs there for a start. The group would still be overlarge split in three, but it would be a major improvement. Frankly, in a group of 23 players, draconic houserules like smiting for talking out of turn seem to be simultaneously the only way to maintain any kind of order, an arbitrary imposition of DM power, and a guarantee of interminable boredom between turns. Aside from anything else, it's a clear indication that this situation isn't working at all. Those players who are having trouble with the rules need individual attention and guidance, and there's no way they can get it in this situation without further draining time from the other players.
Bruunwald 07-11-05, 01:27 PM	Back in high school, my girlfriend would drag me to a game with about 12 people. You know what gone done? Absolutely ziltch. Not a damn thing. Not a single die was rolled. The DM never got past the first description in two whole sessions. The second time, after half the people left (they got bored and went to get stoned), the serious players stayed behind, and I ran a game for those who remained, and we had a blast. Split that group up.
Jonnadiah 07-11-05, 01:38 PM	I am playing in a campaign with 5 other people and it takes an obscenely long time to complete anything. I don't know how you even get through a round or even sit at a table. At places like Cons, where there are a lot of people, several tables are set up, each with a limit of about 5. If you get one other person to DM (including the librarian and his 2 assistants) then you should be fine. Either that or do like 4 way PvP battles or something.
homey188 07-11-05, 02:20 PM	Frankly, in a group of 23 players, draconic houserules like smiting for talking out of turn seem to be simultaneously the only way to maintain any kind of order, an arbitrary imposition of DM power, and a guarantee of interminable boredom between turns. Aside from anything else, it's a clear indication that this situation isn't working at all. its more like if the dm is helping the scout figure out his spot mod,and someone shouts out that he wants to buy a new sword the dm would say"you trip over a root and take 3 damage".we actually lose some people that way.and it works good,onetime i was in a 2d ed adventure with that dm and some person kept shouting out about not having enough turns in a round(isnt one enough?) so that character was sent to the abyss(at 1st level), we were perfectly orderly for the rest of that dungeon
Phrennzy 07-11-05, 09:52 PM	If I were the DM for 23 players, I would take my own life.
SnowbearK 07-11-05, 11:13 PM	:uh-huh: :nonono: A) This is a joke, ha ha, go away. B) This is not a joke, your DM is a novice (perhaps even a newbie) and should be shot with a hammer if he even contemplates trying this again. C) This is not a joke, your DM is "experienced," and a complete idiot. D) This is not a joke, somehow an inmate..er..patient, got internet access and is describing what might be referred to as "group therapy" except the patients are running the asylum. Make your selection from my responses as best fits the reality of the situation. If you have chosen selection D, please also dial 911 and explain the matter to them as well. I'm certain they will be happy to assist in case the rest of us will not. Should you experience a sudden drop in cabin pressure, the oxygen masks will fall from the ceiling. Immediately place yours over your own head before attempting to help others. This will start the flow of nitrous oxide, so that you may enjoy your final few moments before landing. I think that about covers it, thank you and good night.
homey188 07-12-05, 07:26 AM	im doing a 3 strike system, if someone is stupid 3 times, ISW, it is enough to knock out most people in my group:evillaugh
LCD2YOU 07-12-05, 09:04 AM	If I were the DM for 23 players, I would take my own life.If I wanted to take my own life, DMing for 23 people would be a good way to do it.
homey188 07-12-05, 09:51 AM	i just got back from a session,the dm solved the problem by having some players team up and split the group for working in shifts at the area , or having all rangers track at one time, all wizards cast at one time,or he lets us make our own subgroups,we finished half the campaighn in a hour
Jonnadiah 07-12-05, 10:55 AM	i just got back from a session,the dm solved the problem by having some players team up and split the group for working in shifts at the area , or having all rangers track at one time, all wizards cast at one time,or he lets us make our own subgroups,we finished half the campaighn in a hour That's an awfully short campaign. Did you mean adventure? The campaign I'm DMing was meant to be short and we've already had close to 13 hours of session total and we're only about 15% of the way there.
homey188 07-12-05, 01:32 PM	its an adventure not campaighn, i cant tell the difference
UltimateReality 07-12-05, 04:45 PM	its an adventure not campaighn, i cant tell the difference A campaign is like a television series, an adventure is an individual episode. Sometimes campaigns have chapters. These are like an entire season of the series.
Sprain Ogre 07-12-05, 06:16 PM	I once DMed a group that was made up of, onaverage 12 people (although the number was as low as 8 some weeks, and as high as 16 other weeks). 12 was insane! 16, well I tried REAL hard, and I walked around the table a lot to make usre everyone was doing something. I started the campaign with a CoDM, but he went out of state for college right as the party was getting big. Even though I now run a group that's made up of 4-6 players (depending on who can show up week-by-week) my DM style has yet to recover from it. I cann't seem to reset my mindset to lower the CR curve I run, and I keep letting small side conversations run on and on (becouse when you have a dozen players, who can refocus when their turns come up, side talk isn't too big of a problem). I don't think I'd ever want to run a group of more then 8 people (and that's streching it) again, much less 23. Spilt the group up. You'll end up with more stuff being done, happier players, and a less stressed DM.