Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zorminster 07-15-05, 02:17 PM	Okay, in the campaign im playing i've got a buddy who is playing as a druid. He also plays a druid in world of warcraft (which is nothing like a dnd druid). Unfortunately, he tries to play the same as wow- he wants to be a tank who can shift and unshift to just heal himself up. Hes third level and all his spells are spent on cure minor and goodberries. We seriously could use him to function as an augmentation / healing caster. We have a paladin, a mage, a barbarian, druid, and a rogue. The campaign is turning into a fight lots of weaklings campaign fast it seems so a druids entangle would be very useful. You guys got any ideas on ways of getting him to come around to the rest of the groups way of thinking? Hes worthless in melee and even worse with his 2 javelins.
celtredleg 07-15-05, 03:22 PM	Sit him down and go point by point why he is not working out. I have never played WOW, but if he wants a casting tank cleric is better than druid.
Aeromus 07-15-05, 06:16 PM	He'll be fine after 5th level and a few added shapeshifter feats. Why must "you" change his way of play to suit you? Why not change yourself? Make a cleric. Some people like to play a class other then the norm.
Count Arioch the 28th 07-15-05, 09:26 PM	Tell him that he's playign his class correctly, that is exactly how a D&D druid is best. As for healing, a druid is not going to keep up with it during battle, tell him to heal the group after the battle. Until he gets the spell "Heal", he's not going to be able to heal more damage than what things will be doing at that level. Hell, a cleric with the healing domain, the augmented healing feat, and the Radiant Servant of Pelor can't keep up with damage done. In conclusion, you're asking too much of the druid class, Druids are about the same as they are in Warcraft, and I suggest you learn what the classes do exactly before you come complaining that they aren't doing something they aren't capable of.
Zorminster 07-15-05, 09:44 PM	erm, okay let me clear some things up for you. Hes wearing hide armor. Hes attempting to throw 2 javelins well over 60 ft. thats double the range inc and he has pretty trashy str (i think its 9-11 or so) Not only is he getting into melee- he trys to be the main 'tank' Out of the two combat encounters, hes engaged enemies in melee before the paladin. Its not so much I want him to change his play style, i want him to start using his feats and skills, and taking a more diverse (read: extremely useful) spell selection. Im not asking him to be the main healer- im not even asking for combat healing (except in the case of my barbarian laying on the ground [you know, stop me from losing an hp each round via magic healing]). Yea, come fourth or fifth when he actually gets shapeshift he will be doing alot better- until then its my, my dms, and my groups feeling that he should be a utility caster until then.
ConradBland 07-15-05, 09:50 PM	Yea, come fourth or fifth when he actually gets shapeshift he will be doing alot better- until then its my, my dms, and my groups feeling that he should be a utility caster until then. If the DM is dictating how players play their PCs, thn why bother to have other players at all?
Demortis 07-15-05, 10:45 PM	well, IMO, druids are just as usefull as a cleric, i mean when they get to a high enough level, or are built correctly, right now i have a druid that took grizzly claws and has 20 str. what dont look at me like that, i rolled 3 natural 18's so yea. that and hes a wood elf. but still, a druid with less then 12 str should be in the back with a bow... unless his dex isnt that great. and why is he using his str with javillins? i thought those were based on dex...
UltimateReality 07-15-05, 11:04 PM	he wants to be a tank who can shift and unshift to just heal himself up. Hes third level and all his spells are spent on cure minor and goodberries. point him towards the "Spontaneous Healer" feat in the Complete Divine. No more need to prepare cures! :) We seriously could use him to function as an augmentation / healing caster.By augmentation you mean buff? Clerics are generally best at that, because they get more of the spells...druids are best as: 1) summoners, or 2) wildshaped melee combatants of D00M!!!!! Other than this, I am not sure I can help you with your issue. If he enjoys playing his character as it is, ride it out for a few levels, and have him check out the Master of Many Forms prestige class (Complete Divine again, I think). If his lack of current combat effectiveness is hampering everyone else's fun, then either: a) y'all need to lighten up, it's just a game, or b) you have different styles and shouldn't game together, or c) you need to learn the druid inside out and offer to help him make his character more combat effective. (If he says no, you have to buzz off.) Everyone should play their character how they want. While your group may feel you need a utility caster, it is not your job to pressure him into playing something he doesn't like, and possibly doesn't know how to use. No one "should" be anything in a party, except what they want to play. In order to alleviate this problem in the future, I suggest your group creates all their characters together, at once. This also gives you time to tie your characters into each other (some might be brothers, or apprentices of the same expert, or followers of the same church, for example). Creating characters as a group results in a much more compatible party, both mechanically and roleplaying-wise. You can cover each others' weaknesses while maintaining your own strengths. (BTW, your group seems fairly balanced in terms of classes right now.) I really must stress that your friend deserves to have fun playing his not-quite-in-its-prime shifter just as much you deserve to have fun by having a healing battery/buff caster. (What class is your mage? Wizards get a bunch of buff spells too...)
Zorminster 07-16-05, 01:09 PM	point him towards the "Spontaneous Healer" feat in the Complete Divine. No more need to prepare cures! :) By augmentation you mean buff? Clerics are generally best at that, because they get more of the spells...druids are best as: 1) summoners, or 2) wildshaped melee combatants of D00M!!!!! No, by augmentation i guess i really mean utility- entangle, barkskin, fogs, warp wood- stuff like that. In order to alleviate this problem in the future, I suggest your group creates all their characters together, at once. This also gives you time to tie your characters into each other (some might be brothers, or apprentices of the same expert, or followers of the same church, for example). Creating characters as a group results in a much more compatible party, both mechanically and roleplaying-wise. You can cover each others' weaknesses while maintaining your own strengths. (BTW, your group seems fairly balanced in terms of classes right now.) We did, he said he was going to be a utility/augmentation caster and then as soon as we actually started he started acting like a melee combatant instead of a caster. As for str w/ javelin- my DM has ruled (and we agreed- and it makes sense) that if you attempt to throw beyond a thrown weapons range you take the -2 attack roll for each increment increase- if you have negative str mod you also lose that per increment. This is to represent how much exertion you have to use to try and even make that range. If you have a positive str mod, you add that (but not per increment- just once)
UltimateReality 07-16-05, 02:51 PM	No, by augmentation i guess i really mean utility- entangle, barkskin, fogs, warp wood- stuff like that.Ahhhh okay...non-damage-dealing combat spells, then? Terrain and movement control type stuff? We did, he said he was going to be a utility/augmentation caster and then as soon as we actually started he started acting like a melee combatant instead of a caster.*headscratch* Maybe you should flat-out ask him if he wants to play a melee combatant more...either he didn't know what he wanted, went along with the group to please you, or his idea of his character evolved in the meantime...maybe just ask him what's up, cuz you noticed he's playing something different than he first said he wanted to? Does your DM allow "rewrites" of characters within the first few sessions/levels? (Sometimes, there are kinks to be worked out in the party, such as when you have three rogues in a party of 5...) If your group is seriously deficient in some important area, I'm sure the DM would let you guys alter your characters, rather than have you kill someone off and suck at the campaign in the meantime. As for str w/ javelin- my DM has ruled (and we agreed- and it makes sense) that if you attempt to throw beyond a thrown weapons range you take the -2 attack roll for each increment increase- if you have negative str mod you also lose that per increment.Well, the -2/increment is RAW (PHB p. 114). The second part isn't. Rou get -Str to the damage of thrown weapons (PHB p. 134 and 135), but the attack roll for throwing a weapon usually goes off your Dex, not your Str...so he only gets the -Str on damage, by the RAW. If your DM wants to rule it otherwise, he's free to do so, but I think that kind waters down some ranged combatants, and in particular hoses druids (see next paragraph for why). If you want to play it by the RAW, your druid should probably take a ranged weapon that isn't thrown. He'll have to take Weapon Proficiency in it (all the druid gets are thrown weapons), but it may be worth it. What exactly are his ability scores? (If the DM will let him switch a couple around, he may be okay.) Oh, and I'm sure you know that just cuz he's doing combat doesn't mean he can't do spells as well. See if he has full ranks in Concentration, for starters. Also, do you guys ever discuss strategy at the beginning of or during a fight? He simply may not be tactically-oriented enough to think of more than "hmm, I guess I should attack this guy, right?!" (Tactics never came intuitively for me; I had to make a little cheat sheet of things to consider.)
Zorminster 07-16-05, 02:54 PM	thats true, i suppose i should know his tactics arent up to par [read as: I once sent in a single marine on starcraft into the back of the base and his enitre army went after him while my army came in the front.] I don't know his stats or if he even took ranks in concentration.
Demortis 07-17-05, 04:50 PM	If you want to play it by the RAW, your druid should probably take a ranged weapon that isn't thrown. He'll have to take Weapon Proficiency in it (all the druid gets are thrown weapons), but it may be worth it. What exactly are his ability scores? (If the DM will let him switch a couple around, he may be okay.) i thought druids were proficient with bows? i mean, it wouldnt be hard for a druid to walk up to a tree, and use warp wood on its branchs and make a bow to use.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 07-17-05, 05:52 PM	i thought druids were proficient with bows? i mean, it wouldnt be hard for a druid to walk up to a tree, and use warp wood on its branchs and make a bow to use. Sorry dude, but... Druids are proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, sickle, short spear, sling, and spear. They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) or any form they assume with wild shape". Druids are powerful enough as is. Do we really need them to be archers too? :P
Demortis 07-17-05, 06:26 PM	is that the 3rd ed or 3.5? i think 3.5 allows them to use bows, besides, a druid with a wooden quarter staff is still scary! for example and this is with called shot rules: DM: you meet a minitore(sp?), and he looks really mad at you. what do you do? Druid: i warp my staff into a point then stab him in the hip. DM: ok, you shank him in the hip he hits you and you fly backwards 10ft. Druid: i warp the staff to get smaller, and expand width ways, tearing his leg off. DM: he falls to the ground and is begging for mercy Druid: called shot to the eye DM: ........ so yea, a druid even with a staff is scary!
High Octane 07-17-05, 07:55 PM	Called shots are against the RAW (do what you want, but theyre a bad idea.) There is nothing wrong with the way he is playing the character that a DM should intervene on. He is not burning forests, or acting counter alignment. This is between the players if they are dissatisfied with the way hes playing it, the players, AND THEIR CHARCTERS should talk to him. It can remain in character the whole time. Paladin: Hey Druid guy, can we talk? Druid: Certainly. Something wrong? Paladin: Well you have been charging our enemies and engaging them in melee combat? Druid: Something wrong? Paladin: Well between me and (Barbarian guys name) we have plenty of melee combatants, you would be more valuable using your spells to disable our enemies or give us enhancements and heal us. Notice that the DM did not talk?
UltimateReality 07-17-05, 07:58 PM	is that the 3rd ed or 3.5? 3.5. so yea, a druid even with a staff is scary!Shillelagh - a very low level melee druid's best friend. Summoning is better though. :D
celtredleg 07-17-05, 08:06 PM	called shots are always a bad idea. How about greatax to the throat??? All shots are fatal in a called shot enviroment, and why would you not call every shot???
Phrennzy 07-18-05, 11:12 AM	Called shots are against the RAW (do what you want, but theyre a bad idea.) There is nothing wrong with the way he is playing the character that a DM should intervene on. He is not burning forests, or acting counter alignment. This is between the players if they are dissatisfied with the way hes playing it, the players, AND THEIR CHARCTERS should talk to him. It can remain in character the whole time. Paladin: Hey Druid guy, can we talk? Druid: Certainly. Something wrong? Paladin: Well you have been charging our enemies and engaging them in melee combat? Druid: Something wrong? Paladin: Well between me and (Barbarian guys name) we have plenty of melee combatants, you would be more valuable using your spells to disable our enemies or give us enhancements and heal us. Notice that the DM did not talk? I like that, I think that's a good way to go about requesting other players make changes. However, if the Druid player refuses, let it go. Adjust your tactics to compensate.
Demortis 07-18-05, 03:02 PM	well, with the called shots we have the penities, but when your in combat with twenty orcs and theres only 4-5 of you.... you kinda take that chance then
High Octane 07-18-05, 03:33 PM	Called shots makes anybody with a decent idea of anatomy able to insta-kill any lving being with one natural 20.
DDogwood 07-18-05, 04:24 PM	is that the 3rd ed or 3.5? i think 3.5 allows them to use bows They are allowed to use bows in 3.5, but they are not proficient with them (i.e. they have a -4 to hit with a bow). If a druid gains bow proficiency, or is an elf, then yes, he can use bows. It may be worth talking to the player to see why he is always charging into combat. Quite often new players like to roll lots of dice and see an immediate impact from their actions, and casting utility spells doesn't really support this. One option might be to give the player full control over his summoned animals, and let him roll all their attacks, etc. - it doesn't really give him much more power, but it might make the game more fun for him.
Zorminster 07-18-05, 04:34 PM	A weathered man walks into the room, his head just a couple feet short of the door jambs top. His dark brown hair and eyes blend together and his hair falls leisurely on his wide shoulders. He is wearing a bright chain shirt and carries a great axe. He lifts his eyes to the present onlookers. Tilting his head slightly and with fierce speed he brings the axe up and over his head, down onto a table utterly splintering it. "This is my thread and by force I reclaim it." now all you thread jackers shooo! shooo! off with ya! :P
Demortis 07-18-05, 04:47 PM	Called shots makes anybody with a decent idea of anatomy able to insta-kill any lving being with one natural 20. well, live, learn, and remember to duck :D A weathered man walks into the room, his head just a couple feet short of the door jambs top. His dark brown hair and eyes blend together and his hair falls leisurely on his wide shoulders. He is wearing a bright chain shirt and carries a great axe. He lifts his eyes to the present onlookers. Tilting his head slightly and with fierce speed he brings the axe up and over his head, down onto a table utterly splintering it. "This is my thread and by force I reclaim it." now all you thread jackers shooo! shooo! off with ya! A man in dress in green leaf walks up to the axe weilding man and places a staff at his throat. The staff seems to come to life as it splits and wraps around the axe weilders neck, then begings to constrict till its a snugg fit. "This maybe your thread, but it has its use. Now relax and have a drink."
Thoronmir 07-18-05, 05:11 PM	High Octane has it right. Your DM lacks standing to intervene and, if the Druid’s tactics are a problem for the other PCs, it needs to be handled in-character. I’ve ceased to be amazed at how little communication actually takes place among PCs in most campaigns.
psionichamster 07-18-05, 05:46 PM	are you the mage? if you've got the gold or the knowhow, darkwood shields and dragonhide ([i]wild[i] enchanted) fullplate on a [i]wildshaped[i] druid is a very very scary thing. generally, the only major flaw that i see in druid melee combat, if it's happening now, is that he is not in a very powerful creature form, with as many of similar typed creatures beside him. and his dog/wolf/bird/cat that follows him around. with draconic wildshape, or exalted wildshape, it becomes all the more crazy. i agree with the IC convo, though. depending on your character, the interaction would play out a lot differently. but everyone's smart enough to tell someone when they're being stabbed a lot, and casters (ie, the party's wizard) should know enough and be smart enough to come up with tactics for the group. namaste' the hamster (ps: if he's gonna go melee, go big or go home. also: bring your posse' with you. and trips are cool, as are very large grapple modifiers...a constrictor snake with longstrider, other buffs, and druid spells makes for a very nice grapple/flank partner for your rogue. not to mention the cohesion with party buffs and summoned creatures...hasted summons are even nastier.)
Red_Ninja 07-18-05, 06:23 PM	Tell your druid that he's doing everything right, have the paladin or barbarian (in character) offer to help him with his moves, -work as a team- so use the druid in the plan! if he wants to run up and battle have your paladin say "i'm right there with you! you come up from the side, and keep him focused on my heaviy armored behind- make sure you can heal me though, these guys look tough!" -keep helping him out, if you criticize his character out of game, he'll never heal you! -let him learn the hard way, when his tactics a horrendous say so, like Druid: "I charge the Dragon" Paladin: "I agree that valor is a virtue, but to throw away your life is a sin! I cannot go with you this time my friend, godspeed" [you may have to raise him from the dead, if the dragon doesn't digest him!] In game communication is KEY!
RogerWilco 07-18-05, 06:34 PM	I haven't played WoW myself, but some of my friends have. I think you need to explain to him that DnD is more a team effort, instead of a "bash the bad guys" free for all. And he does not need Spontanious Healer, he need Escew Components at level3 and Natural Spell at level6. The Master of Many forms might be an interesting idea, but it doesn't seem very powerfull at high levels. It's nice up until about level7 IIRC, so a total of 12 or thereabouts. Can you just sit down with him, and tell him, you'd like him to use his spells/abilities differenly. He's probably unfamiliar with all the utility spells, walk him through those and give examples how they would have benefitted you in past encounters.
Zorminster 07-18-05, 06:42 PM	nah, im the barb. hes not in any wildshape (gotta be level 4 for that) and his wolf is erm....detained...by something. Ill see how it plays out on thursday.
High Octane 07-18-05, 10:17 PM	High Octane has it right. Your DM lacks standing to intervene and, if the Druid’s tactics are a problem for the other PCs, it needs to be handled in-character. I’ve ceased to be amazed at how little communication actually takes place among PCs in most campaigns. The first sentence seen here is going in my sig ^^
ILL34GL3 07-19-05, 01:31 AM	I'm currently playing a druid and he is the melee MVP. However, he almost never engages in melee himself. Instead he spontaneously casts Summon Nature's Ally and orders his animal companion into combat. My summoned Dire Wolves tripping everything in sight are making the fighters and the psychic warrior in the party just look relatively inept. And he once killed off 10+ hobgoblins in one round with a well placed Briar Web spell. Yeah if your buddy's druid isn't making most of the other players feel like they have useless characters, he's definitely doing something wrong. You might try directing him to the druid handbook in the character optimization forum. It sucks that his wolf has been taken. Let him take 24 hours to obtain another one. Better yet, get a riding dog trained for war. Riding dog trained for war = wolf +2STR. :D Considering your party has no cleric, he's right to memorize a bunch of cure spells. Entangle is usually very helpful too though.
Zorminster 07-19-05, 07:04 AM	thats the thing- his wolf is still alive- he knows this via his empthatic link so he won't get another one. So after were finished with our current little jaunt through the woods, i guess were goin after his darn wolf. I know he should be holding enough cure spells but the last thing you said isn't happening at all. We've gone through 2 or three sessions and hes not taken entangle at all. and yes, weve been walking through the woods almost 100% of the time. We have a paladin who gets 8 points of laying on of hands and will get cure spells as well (what level do pals start to cast? dont have PHB with me). I think were going to be picking up some scrolls and potions next time were in the big town as well.
UltimateReality 07-19-05, 01:07 PM	I know he should be holding enough cure spells but the last thing you said isn't happening at all. <snip> I think were going to be picking up some scrolls and potions next time were in the big town as well.Our group has a cleric who usually doesn't show up to game. As I'm playing the druid in the campaign, we just use party loot to buy me wands of cure as needed...and man has it come in handy. (Last session I used 30+ charges out of a CLW. :eek: ) A wand of CLW only costs 750 gp according to the DMG...if you have no cleric, this can be a good investment. The druid may want to look at getting a Pearl of Power as high as he can, too.
Zorminster 07-19-05, 01:26 PM	yea, i stole the dmg from my dm last night to research some stuff like wands of CLW and stuff :) Im thinking we may get a couple of those if our freaking DM will let us by magic items like that.
Demortis 07-19-05, 04:51 PM	Entangle is usually very helpful too though. yes, and since they are magical roots that you create, they can be used indoors aswell correct?
UltimateReality 07-19-05, 04:56 PM	yes, and since they are magical roots that you create, they can be used indoors aswell correct? If you want to get technical, "Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees" are what's listed. I've had DMs rule that when I was on the fish docks, seaweed or moss didn't count. So if there's grasses, weeds, bushes, or trees within that 40-ft radius, no matter where you are, then entangle works.
Demortis 07-19-05, 04:59 PM	or better yet, if there are enough trees around, warp wood and poke stabby people :D
UltimateReality 07-19-05, 05:04 PM	or better yet, if there are enough trees around, warp wood and poke stabby people :D Heh, warping wood to make their weapons useless is fun, and then cast Animate Wood (found in one of the Complete books)...then you can go a-stabbing. :) The general rule to assume for spell and feat interpretation is that if it doesn't specifically state you can do it, you can't. As a DM I would disallow the use of warp wood to injure people. I would suggest something like Spike Stones if you're looking for a similar effect with one spell, though. :)
Demortis 07-19-05, 05:06 PM	so if i was gaming with you, i wouldnt beable to use a quaterstaff to make a thrusting weapon with warp wood? it doesnt say that you cant, it just has to have the same mass as the object you used thats all if i remember correctly
UltimateReality 07-19-05, 05:11 PM	so if i was gaming with you, i wouldnt beable to use a quaterstaff to make a thrusting weapon with warp wood? it doesnt say that you cant, it just has to have the same mass as the object you used thats all if i remember correctly eh? You mean like turn your quarterstaff into a wooden longspear? That'd be an interesting application...yeah, I'd let you do it, but you'd take a small minus to your attack roll (probably -2) for it being an improvised weapon. Your damage type would change from bludgeoning to piercing too. On the other hand, warp wood doesn't state you can control how it warps, just that you make it warped. The spell itself states "A warped melee weapon causes a -4 penalty on attack rolls." However, because this is such a creative idea, I would probably let you get away with it a few times at low level. If you were just trying to powergame it, though, I'd probably enforce the spell more strictly. So I guess in conclusion I'm not sure. :P Oh, if you just wanted to beef up your quarterstaff I'd suggest the shillelagh spell too. :) One more edit: I've got a link to the SRD description of Warp Wood (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/warpWood.htm) if you're curious. (click on the title graphic to get to the main page if you want to check out the SRD some more -- it's a real good source if you have internet but no books nearby.)
Demortis 07-19-05, 05:16 PM	well, i guess you could consider it powergaming, but my DM gets to toying with us and we have to end up abusing the system at times, makes you come up with some interesting ideas lol
UltimateReality 07-19-05, 05:19 PM	well, i guess you could consider it powergaming, but my DM gets to toying with us and we have to end up abusing the system at times, makes you come up with some interesting ideas lol Ah, now that's a different thing altogether. If the tone of the game is like that, then I would allow it. But I try not to be a vindictive DM -- the whole point is for the players to succeed, eventually, and constantly killing them is a bit counterproductive to a good time. However, I have played in groups where you had to fight hard for every scrap and struggle for every bit. I enjoyed the challenge at times, but at others I thought "okay, can't I just sleep peacefully in the inn?" If it's a real issue, I'd talk to the DM and say you all are finding the challenges too hard, or feeling like you're getting rewards miniscule compared to your effort. If the group and DM is mature, you can take it from there and work out a compromise. (If the DM won't change, you could always offer to DM too, although I'd maybe look for more playing experience first...it never hurts to know the rules inside out. I know them because I used to game with people who constantly tried to abuse or break them. I've since moved on to better groups.)
CalculatedTHAC0 07-19-05, 11:41 PM	Tell your druid that he's doing everything right, have the paladin or barbarian (in character) offer to help him with his moves, -work as a team- so use the druid in the plan! if he wants to run up and battle have your paladin say "i'm right there with you! Zorminster, I think Red_Ninja has a pretty good idea. If your party ever encounters a one-man wrecking crew, the druid could run up there with the barbarian and the paladin, as well as the the wolf familiar (or a summoned nature's ally), giving everyone a +2 on attack rolls for flanking bonuses (if everyone is positioned correctly). Couple this with the druid's ability to cast Bull's Strength on himself and Shillelagh on his quarterstaff, and you're enemy has a pretty big problem (even bigger problem if the druid has two-weapon fighting and can use two attacks with the enhanced quarterstaff). However, a druid probably shouldn't always be used as a beat-stick, and maybe your DM could remedy that problem by having your group encounter an evil druid with some minions. The DM could have the evil druid use all the different abilities that your friend is neglecting, and maybe it would give your friend a chance to see just how neat a druid can be if you use him in a more balanced way. Hope this helps a little . . .
Zorminster 07-20-05, 07:46 AM	well, by luck (this is legit, no foul play was involved) the DM lost his character sheet. So last night I had the opportunity to make him come over and we rerolled him up to third level. I explained to him some of the things i thought he should be doing and somethings he took my advice, some he didnt. str 9 -1 dex 17 +3 con 13 +1 int 10 0 wis 13 +1 cha 14 +2 22 HPs, +3 init, BAB +2 Hide armor + Heavy wooden shield for 18 AC, -5 armor check, 20 speed [In ranks, not counting ability scores] 6 concentration, handle animal, heal, listen, and spellcraft, 3 ranks CC Intimidate, 2 ranks survival. Hes got a +2 on Knowledge:Nature and Survival from "Nature Sense" class ability. He took Weapon Finesse and Dodge as his first and third level feats. (Dodge brings him up to 19 AC vs one enemy, finesse brings his sickle form a +1 to a +5) longspear | +1 | d8 | x2 | P Sickle | +5 (Finesse) | d6 | x2 | S 2 x Javelin | +5 | d6 | x2 | P Animal Companion: Wolf [successful attack has chance to trip opponent] For spells hes at 4 / 3 / 2 (bonus spells , 1 per first three spell levels) His 0 levels hes been taking CMW (1hp heal) x 3 and Light x 1 [This was NEVER even cast in the night battle we had] For first level, hes been taking goodberries x 1 and some other randomly useless spell it would seem. He just now got access to his 2 level 2 spells. Heres what I think he should be taking (Hes our main healer, and the DM out and out told me last night that we will NOT be able to by any magic items, including potions or wands of CLW) -0- Light (1) Cure minor wounds (2) [used to stabalize fallen warriors mainly] Flare (1) [used to protect mage if he gets one on him] -1- Cure Light Wounds (2) [used as actual, your hurt, have health, healing] Obscuring Mist (1) [Do people inside the mist suffer the concealment penalty from firing out of the mist? or just attackers firing into it? Would likely be used as either an escape skill, or a way to stabalize and get players back on their feet for battle] or Entangle (1) [With a 40' radius that stops movement and or slows movement to 1/2 for 30 rounds (hes CL 3) whats not to like? Sure it may entangle the party, but heck- weve got bows! Could also be effectively used as an escape tool. May not be best since were going dungeon crawling this next adventure.] -2- Barkskin (1) Cats Grace (1) [Buff himself to pickup an additional +2 on his attack bonus for 30 rounds] So, what do you guys think of this character? What would you change about the spell listing? Also- Druids aren't profficient with bows. Elves are. Hes an elven druid. Can he use a bow or is there something about them against the druid's oath? I was thinking maybe it was the metal arrowheads or the fact that it was piercing damage (these happen to be the older, 2.0 restrictions- metal and piercing); the dagger is piercing as is the spear though, and both are metal as is the sickle. So- is there anything wrong with him getting a bow?
CalculatedTHAC0 07-20-05, 11:27 AM	Take a look at the following as a reason to trade his strength score for another stat: Weight of his equipment: Hide Armor: 25 Heav.Wd.Sh: 10 2 Javelins: 4 Longspear: 9 Sickle: 2 All of this adds to 50 pounds: assuming he is carrying nothing else, he is already close to having a heavy load because of the poor strength score. If he carries only 11 more pounds, he will be at a heavy load. But let's assume now that he's only at a medium load: Modified speed with hide armor and medium carrying load: 15 feet (as opposed to his normal rate of 30 feet). Why not trade the charisma score with the strength score? He's already got a bonus to his handle animal check (while being able to put more skill points there later anyway), and if he keeps his strength score where it is, he has a chance of making a successful hit and then doing absolutely no damage :( . If his reasoning for putting the 14 to his charisma is because of handle animal, just tell him that he can put more skill points there later. And it's a good bet that your party will make attack/damage rolls more often than the druid will make a handle animal check anyway, so a high strength score will be more beneficial more often. If he keeps everything as it is, and he plans on adding one to his dex score at 4th level, it won't help his armor class any: the maximum dex bonus to AC with a medium load is +3 (PH 162). One other thing that might be beneficial would be to scratch the Dodge feat. Unless he is working to get Spring attack later (although with a 15 ft. movement it wouldn't be very wise), the feat used on Dodge seems to be wasted a little. If he wants to use a bow, have him use the feat on a bow proficiency so that he doesn't take a -4 penalty. And, if he puts enough skill points in Craft: Bow-making, he can make a bow whenever he wants, maybe even making a composite bow with a strength rating for himself (assuming his strength score is high enough to add a strength rating) . As long as he doesn't tear down a forest to make the bow and arrows, he won't be violating his druidic code: he would just need to look for sticks or logs that have already fallen instead of chopping them down himself. Hope this helps...
Zorminster 07-20-05, 11:52 AM	Take a look at the following as a reason to trade his strength score for another stat: Weight of his equipment: Hide Armor: 25 Heav.Wd.Sh: 10 2 Javelins: 4 Longspear: 9 Sickle: 2 All of this adds to 50 pounds: assuming he is carrying nothing else, he is already close to having a heavy load because of the poor strength score. If he carries only 11 more pounds, he will be at a heavy load. But let's assume now that he's only at a medium load: Modified speed with hide armor and medium carrying load: 15 feet (as opposed to his normal rate of 30 feet). Why not trade the charisma score with the strength score? He's already got a bonus to his handle animal check (while being able to put more skill points there later anyway), and if he keeps his strength score where it is, he has a chance of making a successful hit and then doing absolutely no damage :( . If his reasoning for putting the 14 to his charisma is because of handle animal, just tell him that he can put more skill points there later. And it's a good bet that your party will make attack/damage rolls more often than the druid will make a handle animal check anyway, so a high strength score will be more beneficial more often. If he keeps everything as it is, and he plans on adding one to his dex score at 4th level, it won't help his armor class any: the maximum dex bonus to AC with a medium load is +3 (PH 162). One other thing that might be beneficial would be to scratch the Dodge feat. Unless he is working to get Spring attack later (although with a 15 ft. movement it wouldn't be very wise), the feat used on Dodge seems to be wasted a little. If he wants to use a bow, have him use the feat on a bow proficiency so that he doesn't take a -4 penalty. And, if he puts enough skill points in Craft: Bow-making, he can make a bow whenever he wants, maybe even making a composite bow with a strength rating for himself (assuming his strength score is high enough to add a strength rating) . As long as he doesn't tear down a forest to make the bow and arrows, he won't be violating his druidic code: he would just need to look for sticks or logs that have already fallen instead of chopping them down himself. Hope this helps... His loading has already been considered- i dont know why he did this to himself. The DM had his ability scores written down but nothing else- no changing them now. Elves are proficient with bows already What feat would you suggest instead of dodge then? Hes the kind that LOVES being in melee no matter the consequences.
UltimateReality 07-20-05, 01:26 PM	Warning: what follows is my personal take on the druid, based on experience and what I generally see when I look at other druid builds. str 9 -1 dex 17 +3 con 13 +1 int 10 0 wis 13 +1 cha 14 +2Can you change the positioning of the stat scores? The Wisdom score should definitely be higher, as it's what his spells are tied off of -- and before he hits 5th level, Summon Nature's Ally and other spells are really all he's got. I'd also put a higher score in Con, as you regain hit points when you wildshape. Dex and Str change to match the form you take, so that Dex 17 only helps him until 5th level...Here's how I'd arrange it all: Str 9 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 17 Cha 13 Hide armor + Heavy wooden shield for 18 AC, -5 armor check, 20 speedOuch. See if your DM will allow the special material darkwoodfrom p. 283 of the DMG for his shield...it lessens the shield's AC penalty by 2, halves the weight of the thing, and costs an additional 10 gp per pound of the original weight + masterwork (150gp). A darkwood heavy wooden shield costs 257gp, has no AC penalty, and weighs 5 lbs. As for his armor, I'd suggest sticking to something light to keep his movement up...if you can get the DM to allow the bluewood special material from p. 58 of the "Unapproachable East", he can wear the equivalent of metal armor without breaking his druid vows, and it weighs half as much and is considered masterwork. Unfortunately it does nothing for his AC penalty, so I'd take studded leather or a chain shirt at best. What he should be looking at to help with his AC is barksin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/barkskin.htm). (In ranks, not counting ability scores) 6 concentration, handle animal, heal, listen, and spellcraft, 3 ranks CC Intimidate, 2 ranks survival. Hes got a +2 on Knowledge:Nature and Survival from "Nature Sense" class ability. A druid's "base skills" to always max out usually includes Knowledge (nature), Survival, Concentration, Spellcraft, and Handle Animal. Heal can be useful if you have no cleric. He took Weapon Finesse and Dodge as his first and third level feats. (Dodge brings him up to 19 AC vs one enemy, finesse brings his sickle form a +1 to a +5)If he's going for any sort of prestige class he should check the requirements now. A lot of them have feat requirements. If he's not going for a prestige class, he has a couple options. My druids tend to focus on summoning feats, so I would pick up Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning. (If your DM allows the Ashbound feat from the Eberron Campaign Setting, so much the better.) For going melee, there are a lot of Wild Shape feats he can take, but most of them require he already have the ability. :( I would look for fighter-type feats that are useful for the majority of forms he intends to take. If he's not going MoMF, Natural Spell at 6th level is a no-brainer. longspear | +1 | d8 | x2 | P <snip> 2 x Javelin | +5 | d6 | x2 | PThe longspear damage is actually 1d8-1 and the javelin is 1d6-1 because you get your Strength modifier to thrown weapons (PHB, p. 113). Animal Companion: Wolf [successful attack has chance to trip opponent]Standard and excellent choice. Works well if he sends it into melee, then summons other creatures there to surround the opponent and attack while they're prone. For spellsNote that with a Wisdom of 13, he can't learn or cast above 3rd level spells, and his save DCs, if he uses spells that have them, are abysmal. If he's going for the MoMF PrC, he doesn't need more than that as the MoMF doesn't gain spell progression, but if he's going for anything else, he really wants to put that 17 in Wis, and up it to 18 or 19 at the first chance he gets. His 0 levels hes been taking CMW (1hp heal) x 3 and Light x 1 [This was NEVER even cast in the night battle we had] For first level, hes been taking goodberries x 1 and some other randomly useless spell it would seem. He just now got access to his 2 level 2 spells.For comparison, here's my Drd3's spells prepared: 0th - Guidance, Naturewatch, Read Magic, Resistance. 1st - Faerie Fire, Magic Stone, Sandblast 2nd - Barkskiin and one I can't decide on yet. :P My list may be different than others because our current adventure involves lots of undead and dark areas, and we are without a bloody cleric. (Did I mention that already? :P) He should never prepare any SNA spell, as he can spontaneously cast them. the DM out and out told me last night that we will NOT be able to by any magic items, including potions or wands of CLW)Ick. Did he say why? Will you find them in treasure or be able to buy them later? Obscuring Mist (1) [Do people inside the mist suffer the concealment penalty from firing out of the mist? or just attackers firing into it?Both, from my understanding. It's a mist, right? Works both ways. Entangle (1) [With a 40' radius that stops movement and or slows movement to 1/2 for 30 rounds (hes CL 3) whats not to like?A nasty DM may rule that only "weeds, grasses, bushes, or even trees" can twist for it -- I've had vindictive DMs rule that there was nothing on the docks, not even seaweed under it, that counted. The only thing with Entangle is that his save against it is so pitiful it will be insanely easy for opponents to make their Reflex saves, and possibly their Strength or Escape Artist checks. Barkskin (1) Cats Grace (1) [Buff himself to pickup an additional +2 on his attack bonus for 30 rounds]Excellent choices. Buff spells are generally a good idea, especially with his low Dex. Just make sure that after the Dex enhancement, he doesn't cap out on his armor's Max Dex. Also- Druids aren't profficient with bows. Elves are. Hes an elven druid. Can he use a bow or is there something about them against the druid's oath?Nope, he can use it. It's metal armor that he can't wear and that breaks his oath. The weapons listed are simply the weapons the druid is proficient with due to class; these stack with any racial weapon proficiencies. (these happen to be the older, 2.0 restrictions- metal and piercing);Er...what edition are you playing, now I think of it? *d'oh* My post is written for 3.5.
Zorminster 07-20-05, 02:24 PM	were playing 3.5 if you read the last post youd see i already adressed that abilities are what they are and cant be changed- weve already had 2 sessions and this guy is too unorginized to keep his own sheet- he left it thinking the dm would get it, but it was lost. We wont ever be purchasing magic items as my dm thinks there are only about 5 in the world it seems. We will find stuff, but it will all be story-related stuff if i know this guy like i think i do again, i dont know why dumbarse took a 17 dex when he casts of wis We wont be reaching PRC levels in this campaign- we may get 4 more sessions before the summer is over and we all end up 500 miles apart for college Core and complete books only. Even then complete books are subject to scrutiny and he wont give them to us to look at, we have to request something and hope its in there. Probably out of the question to get a darkwood shield since its impossible for me to buy a masterwork breastplate unless im in the largest of trade ports. (seriously, this dm has played too many monty haul campaigns and goes in the opposite direction) We don't have a cleric (go figure) just him and a paladin. I told him to leave survival down in lieu of other skills because my character is maxing survival out. Bah, i knew i forgot something bout those javs- whys the long spear get it though? I was under the impression (and i dunno why) that if your str is -mod you dont take it into consideration on melee weapons? He dosnt use SNA- let me quote him- Man, summon natures ally? That spell sucks- it only lasts one round! spoken as a level 3 druid. Im telling you, this guy is stupid as crap and hes one of my best friends so im 100% allowed to say it lol. The mention of 2.0 was me giving rationalization on why i wasnt sure about the druid oath.
psionichamster 07-20-05, 03:40 PM	the only beneficial advice i can give this character is : cast enlarge person, bull's strength, cat's grace, or barkskin before every battle charge with your now great strength (use longstrider for more speed), and hack into the enemy with your sickle. when you get sliced to ribbons (and you will) the party will dissolve, and someone more ready to DM can do so. in the meantime, run everywhere, either into or immediately away from combat. a 13 wis, 17 dex elf is not a druid. at best, he's a really smooth gardener...who can slice hedges with the best of them. good luck namaste' the hamster
UltimateReality 07-20-05, 04:09 PM	Zorminster, I was going to type out a reply to your post, but I see it is fairly pointless as you won't be gaming much longer and your friend doesn't seem inclined to take advice from you (too much) anyway. So the best I can do is suggest he visit these boards himself, and echo psionichamster's suggestion: get someone else to DM! (Maybe you? Or someone else who has some sense? :P)
Zorminster 07-20-05, 05:17 PM	okay, where do you guys get that our dm is inept? hes a great very descriptive good RP dm, just has his own ideas about purchasing stuff. Yea, Jake isn't very prone to taking ANYONES advice unless its one of the 7 different girls using him. I figure were just gunna let him die and thatll be good enough for me, My character has no particular attachment to him and as such wont be willing to shell out $$$ to help res him.
UltimateReality 07-20-05, 06:30 PM	okay, where do you guys get that our dm is inept?I wouldn't say inept so much as...overly restrictive. If the group is happy with it, there is no problem. Most of the players I've run into IRL and on these boards, though, would probably not play under him from the little you have told us in your posts. Making me take my stats where they lay as I roll? Eh...I guess I can handle it, but I really don't like it. Restricting magic items? Sure. Making them practically non-existant? ...Okay, but don't expect me to play anything other than an item creation *****. Not allowing me to even look through the allowed splat books? That sounds like a load of hooey IMNSHO. It sounds almost like he's afraid of his players getting too powerful. Beyond the monty hauls, has he ever played any other kind of D&D? Yea, Jake isn't very prone to taking ANYONES advice unless its one of the 7 different girls using him.I'd chuckle, but it's kinda sad when you think about it. I've seen guys like this before. They have too much pride to admit they're being used even when you present them with undeniable proof. I figure were just gunna let him die and thatll be good enough for me, My character has no particular attachment to him and as such wont be willing to shell out $$$ to help res him.As there's only 4 more sessions left, this isn't a problem anyway. But if it was a continuing game, he'd just make another character, and what if that one is just as mechanically useless? If he does make another one, I'd try to steer him more towards a straight tank build, seeing as that's where his interest seems to lies. Don't mean to rag on ya, man, just pointing out my opinion. I've been blessed with a very special group that works for me -- and we are quite unusual in some ways, so we have our own quirks and preferences, "hell no" house-rule taboos and "duh, of course" variants.
psionichamster 07-20-05, 07:59 PM	inept? no, i can't say that i apologize if my above comments came off as unneccessarily harsh, but disallowing even minor magic-acquisition (potions/scrolls/enemy spell books?) and forcing a player to continue with a 13 wis druid (here, it is likely the player's choice, and so be it, it's his character) seem to be detrimental to fun for me. not that low-level, low-powered, run-away-from-everything kinds of games don't have their appeal, but they're not really my cuppa tea if its frustrating you that the druid is not being as effective a combatant as he can be (and in a low-magic, low-powered world, a shapeshifting, med-hit dice, armored spellcaster with an animal companion - like your druid should be- should kick major booty!) as is, it seems you are "stuck" with what you have for the moment. as i said before: good luck namaste' the hamster
Zorminster 07-20-05, 10:29 PM	sry wasnt clear on this- we created using 4d6, high three- re-roll ones. Placed where you want them. JAKE put his stats where they are and has played two sessions with them like that- thats why they cant be moved. We dont leave our stats as they lie in order of the rolls- sry for that misconstruation. Yea, mechanically i wish id been sitting behind him when he chose race class and stats. Unfortunately thats not the case. In jakes defense he has only played a couple of times (maybe 4 short [4 or less session] campaigns) Unfortunately, its not his pride thats causing his behavior- its actually his stupidity. He ACTUALLY believes them each to be interested in him. He won't admit hes wrong because he's NEVER right and any chance he thinks he is then holds fast in it. I honestly didn't even realize his 17 dex vs 13 wis until you said something about it- I don't know how no one else looked at that fact.
UltimateReality 07-20-05, 10:54 PM	sry wasnt clear on this- we created using 4d6, high three- re-roll ones. Placed where you want them. JAKE put his stats where they are and has played two sessions with them like that- thats why they cant be moved.Ah, okay. That, I can see a DM doing. (Our DM has since been more leniant and said that anything within the first 5 sessions is changable.) In jakes defense he has only played a couple of times (maybe 4 short [4 or less session] campaigns)That would do it. If you don't know it or have an experienced player to help, D&D can be quite rules-heavy and complicated. (Just think, they simplified a lot from 3.0 and it's still this big...) If he's anything like I was when I was a brand new player, his selection process for race and class was determined more by the book illustrations than the sea of rules-babble that didn't quite make sense yet... OTOH, I've never played WOW so I don't know what it's like. In any case, I know it does take time to adjust to and learn a new rules system. Unfortunately, its not his pride thats causing his behavior- its actually his stupidity.The stupidity makes the girls latch onto them and them not realize it. They don't even think that she's using them when she gets him to buy $100+ of booze, drinks it with him, and then spends the night flirting with another guy online and eventually gets him to come pick her up at the fools' house. On two separate occasions. (I watched this happen. It was hilarious.) Of course he insisted she wasn't using him when we confronted him about it, but as soon as the paycheck was gone, so was she... :confused: I honestly didn't even realize his 17 dex vs 13 wis until you said something about it- I don't know how no one else looked at that fact.*shrug* Sometimes people only skim posts or misread things. I've done it myself at times. Oh, edit: what's your character in this game?
Zorminster 07-21-05, 08:29 AM	im the barbarian linked in my sig- Tandar.
Zorminster 07-22-05, 07:26 AM	well, had the session yesterday. We got there and the first thing i did was look @ the druids sheet- it had a 17 down as wisdom. Now im not sure if i made a typo (or rather, copied a typo the DM had made to me) or if a certain druid just happened to become a sage over night. Anyway, he actually took entangle at my request, and used it (without anyone needing to tell him to) and effectively got 12 orcs stuck for easy pincoushining and beheadment. (Granted, i did have to help him place the epicenter for maximum use) He then proceded to actually take a CLW instead of just 3 CMW + goodberries-- also a very helpful change. He left early though so i didn't get to see how much hed really changed his play- And of course, seeing as we were in a dungeon crawl, the DM pulled some jackassery shenanigans- i walk out a door and see animated armor i start fighting- EVERYONE comes out to help fight- except the druid (Jakes already gone, DM playing him)- the druid finds the only trapped book in the dungeon (which likely wasn't previously trapped) and just happens to read the page with sepia snake sigil. This made me really angry with the dm faster than anything else that day because HE GOT RID OF OUR ONLY COMBAT HEALER. Now I understand its easier to write out the character than have that character played by someone else but seriously- such an integral part in a dungeon crawl. Thats bad judgement and poor DMing if you ask me. Throughout the day i solidified the fact I wont play another campaign with the DM after this one- 1) In shooting from a tree [in concealment] at an orc thats fleeing towards us, from something else- Im instantly spotted by all the orcs. I dunno how this one happened because no spot or hide checks were rolled and I very SERIOUSLY doubt that all 12 happen to look up the instant i shoot one and see me. whatever- not a huge deal 2) The mage IS GIVEN A SPELL BOOK- as random loot. he gets to copy 2 spells to his at no cost in one day. Erm- WTF? Last I checked you can copy 1 spell a day, no matter the level, and it costs 100gp per page (pages = spell level) 3) The DMs girlfriend was playing (she was in for a week to visit him) and wouldnt ya know it? She showed up WITH MAGICAL ITEMS. To make it worse, she happened to be one of the "I use tiny dice so it takes 10 minutes to read each roll" players, as well as a "My dice roll higher if i roll them around in my palm for a good 30 seconds before each and every roll" and a "Im the only female here, and i play with jason at school, but im still not going to be social" player. 4) The dm totally threw RP out the window. He took to just roll-playing the whole game. I started getting descriptions ONLY when I asked- and they came back like "Its a suit of armor, with a sword, swinging at you" not "It appears to be an unoccupied suit of half plate, it wields a bastard sword and seems intent on someones death" 5) Apparently, if I make conversation with a gardner (A good 10-12 sentences) I DONT NOTICE HIS EYES ARE BLANK OR THAT HIS MOUTH IS SEWN SHUT- but as soon as favored player #1 asks to talk to him it becomes VERY apparent 6) My combat turn was attempted to be skipped multiple times [accidental or not, the DM had the init sheet- not hard to look and not miss anyone] 7) Everyone but my character got notable loot. I got some gold pieces and an ornately decorated flail [1 i dont use flails, 2 this wasnt special in anyway other than looking pretty- sold for a lil more than normal flails but thats it] - others came out with Longbow +1 (The mage got this one over a rogue, a barb, and a paladin), A sword of shocking (the rogue got this broad sword), a Mastercraft Bastard sword (Paladin got it), A CLW and CMW healing potions (went to the mage who gave to paladin), A spellbook (to the mage), A necklace of fireball with 2 beads (The mage got this too), an amulet of health (mage got it), and i think [and i mean i think because it weighs 15 instead of 30 but he made no mention of it being mithral even though im a weaponsmith- nor did he mention what color it was : / ]mithral scale(Which im carrying and is of no use to anyone), oh yea- i got 3 chain shirts...as loot to sell i suppose. 8) The barbarian seemed targetted more than most other members. Theres a Paladin of Helm and were fighting a priestess of Sharn (FR deity of darkness). Her ghast comes right for me, and then later a magic flail is summoned- it swings at the pally once, then turns and attacks me. After a 27hp inflict serious wounds on me, I bull rushed her off the second story balcony and the d6 fall damage just happened to be enough to finally kill her. 9) He just had a real jackass attitude towards me the whole day [this was of course, because i was being a douche after the first two hours of his crap- after seeing the favoritism and disregard for applicable skills and such i pretty much started being a rules lawyer and pointing out everything stupid he did- - - hes been playing 3 years longer than me, and much more often so him being a newb was no excuse.] Anyway, I emailed him the list of things i disliked and told him I wont be playing in anymore campaigns once this one is finished- oh well.
Phrennzy 07-22-05, 11:34 AM	9) He just had a real jackass attitude towards me the whole day [this was of course, because i was being a douche after the first two hours of his crap- after seeing the favoritism and disregard for applicable skills and such i pretty much started being a rules lawyer and pointing out everything stupid he did- - - hes been playing 3 years longer than me, and much more often so him being a newb was no excuse.] Anyway, I emailed him the list of things i disliked and told him I wont be playing in anymore campaigns once this one is finished- oh well. Did you tell him about the "favoritism and disregard for applicable skills and such" you perceived? Perhaps pulling him aside? That might have made the game more enjoyable. If you only have 4 more sessions, why not try to have the most fun you can? Quit worrying about who gets what, whether or not the druid is the most effective he can be and just have fun? Here's an idea - take all of this supposed favortism and lack of magical items and 'the orcs spot me' and role play it as "I am cursed by the Gods". Make something useful out of it. If I got an email from someone listing all the things you listed - as well as a note that said, "I wont be playing in anymore campaigns once this one is finished" I would be upset. I would talk to that player, because I am assuming you are both friends. The behavior here smacks of immaturity. If you have a problem with what is going on in the game - and it's obvious you do - try talking with the DM (without being a jerk) and get it resolved. He may have been a 'douche' only in response to your rules-lawyering jerkness, which was a response to what you saw as being screwed over, which I am sure wasn't intentional on his part. Talk with him if you are friends. If you aren't friends, then don't bother going back to the game - for your sake and everyone elses - since you aren't having fun.
Zorminster 07-22-05, 01:52 PM	Did you tell him about the "favoritism and disregard for applicable skills and such" you perceived? Perhaps pulling him aside? That might have made the game more enjoyable. Well ya know, it was tried and met with angst and the usual dm cop out regardless of how time-sensitive something may be "After the session" which is what i did, emailed him immediately after the session. Here's an idea - take all of this supposed favortism and lack of magical items and 'the orcs spot me' and role play it as "I am cursed by the Gods". Make something useful out of it. Might not be a bad idea if i wasn't getting ready to try and multiclass a level of cleric. I dont particularly think that emailing him with what he requested or giving him a statement of my intentions is immature really. Apart from the 'hush you have no say here Rule 0' met with my "suits me, im gunna do everything to **** ya off today then" actions ive not done anything outta line. Had you been there you would have percieved things differently as well- he wasn't exactly civilized about most of the things he said to me (high pitched, straining voice, anquish in the eyes, and a loath slam of the hand any time he was talking to me pretty much) As far as being friends we were in highschool together and were pretty good friends, being about 600 miles from eachother in college and him a year older than me we are merely acquaintinces now really. While at college he pretty much became a religious zealot as well- one of the things i despise [and yes so you know, we both claim christianity- i just dont go around trying to force my beliefs on people like he does]
On_the_wings_of_TPK 07-22-05, 03:09 PM	It sounds like you and your group have some serious play issues. What I think is happening is that you and your DM have grown apart. (Hey, college will do that to you.) It happened with me and my friends. Although honestly it sounds like you and the DM are now having some person issues that are spilling over in game. I would discontiue the campaign immedaitely and explain that you feel that you have just plain grown apart as indivduals. Also explain that you are no longer having fun and you feel that it would be in everyone's best interest if you just went your separtate ways.