Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Skydog10999 04-07-04, 01:04 PM	I'm running a campaign and the players have gotten to high levels (avg 15-16). We have few players so one of my guys plays two characters. We are getting a new player so the person w/two characters wants to get rid of his other PC and instead, replace with an animal companion for his Druid. He sent me the stats for the animal companion he would like to "Find" and it is a Dire bear that he has advanced to 30 HD (378 hit points!). Here's it's stats: STR 39 Dex 11 Con 23 Int 2 Wis 12 Cha 10 Saves: Fort 25, Ref 19, Will 10 Attacks: 2 claws +34/+34 (3d4+14) and bite +29 (3d8+7) AC is an 18 and, did I mention this creature is size category HUGE? Should I allow this? Based on the rules (3.0 btw) it sounds legit unless I missed something. I don't want to discourage my players and I'm sure I can find ways to beat it (I AM the DM after all) but it seems like this creature is approx 17 CR and my player is only a level 15 Druid. Seems a bit powerful. Any thoughts??? :confused:
WaxSniffer 04-07-04, 01:22 PM	You are the DM. If you feel that this Dire Bear is too powerful for your game then substitute one that would fit. You should control your world and not give in to all the wishes that the Players have.
olshanski_home 04-07-04, 01:35 PM	Animal companions do not increase in size, according to either the errata or FAQ: (I don't recall which). Finding a larger creature naturally and making it a companion is up to the DM... typically companions are determined by CR, and increases in size (by advancing) tend to increase CR much faster than HD. I think a fair thing to do is calculate the CR of a huge dire bear... then determine at what point the druid should have it available, then do additional advancement based on the druids animal companions table.
D_Martin 04-07-04, 02:04 PM	IMO, no way! Replace a 15th level PC(15HD) with a 30HD Dire Bear? I don't think so. Not if he is still playing the Druid. If you give him a 18-20HD Dire Bear, maybe that could work a little better. Even though that may be a lot, it is closer to the CR15 the lost PC was. But remember, Dire Bears don't grow on trees! Make him quest or have to search for it. Take advantage of the fact that a Huge Dire Bear won't be able to go everywhere with you. Kind of hard to take that with you into a dungeon. As the DM, you should do the research and create the Bear somewhat. So you don't let the players unbalance your game. If he can't deal with it ...tough. You are the DM, you are GOD. That would wreck your game to allow the 30HD; 378HP Bear(that sounds like near Max. HP's too)!
Skydog10999 04-07-04, 02:36 PM	Thanks for the responses. Sounds like the general concensus is this dire bear is OUT. Not that he can't have one, of course. Anyone know how to figure out the CR of something like a huge dire bear? I read somewhere (MM maybe?) you take the new hit die divided by old HD and multiply by the old CR. So... New HD/Old HD*CR or (30/12)*7 = 17.5 is this right? do you round up or down... either way, this is way too high to use with these PCs.
wdarkk 04-07-04, 02:58 PM	I think there's a section on it in the MM. I found a section on it in the SRD but the SRD tables are almost totally unreadable.
olshanski_home 04-07-04, 07:53 PM	Ok, I guess I'll do the work for you: Basic Dire Bear is size Large, CR 7. A druid should typically be able to choose this beast at level 13 (The druid level is considered to be 12 less when calculating animal companion stats). The Level at which a CR companion can be obtained is usually (2*CR)-1 A Huge advanced dire bear, 18 HD, would have a CR of 10 (+2 CR for the 6 extra HD, +1 CR for the additional size). The earliest a druid could have a Huge Advanced Dire Bear would be level 19. If your 15th level Druid were playing by the rules, he could have a regular Dire Bear (from the monster manual), with the advancement as if he were a 3rd level druid: IE: +2 HD, No size increase, +2 natural armor, +1 strength, +1 Dex, 2 bonus tricks, and evasion.
Thorak 04-07-04, 09:07 PM	Olshanski, that's true in 3.5. But the original question was about 3.0, which uses vastly different Animal Companion rules; it explicitly does say they can have up to double their hit dice for an animal companion, and the fact that it generally should be less is left up to DM discretion. Which is a problem. My suggestion; roleplay it. From my reading of the 3.0 SRD, he gets the animal companion to be his companion by casting Animal Friendship on it, right? That's got a pretty small range, 25 feet +5 feet/2 levels. So he, if he's level 16, would have to get within 65 feet of a 30 HD advanced Dire Bear to be able to get it as an animal companion. Otherwise, he just can't target it with the spell, he doesn't get to summon them from wherever they might be hiding. So the really, really simple solution is to tell him "If you can find a 30-HD advanced Dire Bear, you can have it as an animal companion, if it doesn't kill you first." And then, never ever ever introducing a 30 HD advanced Dire Bear. Restrict the big animals in your campaign to whatever you think would be reasonable; a normal Dire Bear, for example. There's absolutely nothing about Animal Companions in the 3.0 SRD that makes me think he gets to imagine whatever he wants and gets it. He has to cast Animal Friendship on what he wants, which means he has to find it first, and as the DM you can make it so all he finds is bunny rabbits with bad teeth, if you want.
Asmodeous 04-08-04, 01:15 AM	I got a real problem with this idea. Sorry, but Im a role player. An Intelligence of two? Seriously, how is the player going to play this dire bear? You as the dm could very well allow this. Simply adjust your encounters to suit. This dire bear is nothing more than a big easy to hit meat shield. Sure it has 378 hit points, But one flying dragon with breath weapon encounter and your players are going to need a really big spit and fire. Oh, and every time a in game discussion takes place, and the player of the dire bear says something, remind him that a bear with an int of 2, cannot speak or understand anything except, well the roars and grunts or other bears, and the druid. Throw some thinking kind of scenario's at the group and the player of the bear should hopefully get bored and want to create something a little bit different. Nothing wrong with letting people fall on their own swords from time to time. :angel:
wdarkk 04-08-04, 03:54 AM	Err. He's not playing the bear. It's a companion.
Bacon and Eggs 04-08-04, 09:21 AM	Then you can call him Boo Boo and go around hunting for dire Picnic Baskets. Now that's an adventure.
Big Dawg 04-08-04, 11:45 AM	Then you can call him Boo Boo and go around hunting for dire Picnic Baskets. LOL... that brings back memories! there was a bear from yellow stone Yogi, YOGI there was a bear from yellow stone Yogi, Yogi bear YOGI, YOGI BEAR, YOGI, YOGI BEAR, There was a bear from yellow stone YOGI, YOGI BEAR. Yogi had a girl friend, Cindy, CINDY Yogi had a girl friend, Cindy, Cindy Bear ---i'll stop before ity get to bad. :devil:
Veton 04-08-04, 08:38 PM	Originally posted by Skydog10999 I'm running a campaign and the players have gotten to high levels (avg 15-16). We have few players so one of my guys plays two characters. We are getting a new player so the person w/two characters wants to get rid of his other PC and instead, replace with an animal companion for his Druid. He sent me the stats for the animal companion he would like to "Find" and it is a Dire bear that he has advanced to 30 HD (378 hit points!). So are you starting a new campaign? If so, I guess you could allow him to have found this Dire Bear before play. If, on the other hand, one of your players is creating a new Druid character, and wants a Dire Bear animal companion, then it's up to you. Either he already found it, or he has to find one. Should I allow this? Based on the rules (3.0 btw) it sounds legit unless I missed something. It's legit, but that doesn't mean you have to allow it. I don't want to discourage my players and I'm sure I can find ways to beat it (I AM the DM after all) but it seems like this creature is approx 17 CR and my player is only a level 15 Druid. Seems a bit powerful. I belive that the CR of a creature doesn't go up if you increase it's HD. Instead, you give the players more XP for it. Any thoughts??? Just remember that if you feel it would be too powerful, just say no. If you would allow him to, I would make him find a Dire Bear that size. A creature that powerful and of that size would be rather legendary, probably with some sort of title along with it, such as "The Massive Bear" (Yes, uncreative, but I'm about to eat dinner). Once he tracks it down, he has to cast the appropriate spell on it. I feel (this isn't offical) that you really can't be invisible to something that you're mind-influencing. So he would have to approch it and not get killed. This could actually be an adventure in itself, if you are willing to put some work in it ;)
Sunrider 04-08-04, 08:53 PM	Let the player have the Dire Bear. Then Dominate it.
Iron Chef Vastrox 04-09-04, 02:12 AM	I distinctly remember reading a 3.0 errata/clarification/something! stating that a Druid was limited by his HD for individual animal companion max HD. This meant that he could have 2 15 HD dire bears, but no 30 HD dire bear. I know this was written out. I just have no idea where.
pyk 04-09-04, 06:51 AM	Originally posted by Iron Chef Vastrox I distinctly remember reading a 3.0 errata/clarification/something! stating that a Druid was limited by his HD for individual animal companion max HD. This meant that he could have 2 15 HD dire bears, but no 30 HD dire bear. I know this was written out. I just have no idea where. Unfortunately, by the rules as written/errated/FAQed (if that can be considered a word), the 30 HD dire bear is perfectly acceptable to be had by a 15 level Druid. In 3.0, not 3.5. They are two entirely different games, and can not be mixed without a lot of effort. This does NOT mean that a 30 HD dire bear has to even exist in your campaign world. Your world could be perfectly fine having only the normal 12 HD dire bears in it, or even no dire bears at all. The creature advancement is a variant rule, and does not have to be adopted by the DM at all. You have to decide if this is legitamate in your campaign. It is legal, but does not have to be acceptable. Oh, and if you do allow it, check the stats again. They seem a little off (the damage of the claws should be 2d6, not 3d4, for instance). If your player handed you the sheet of stats, you should double check them, anyway. Unless, you adjusted them the way you saw fit, which is perfectly fine.
quaiven 04-09-04, 07:59 AM	I don't have my 3.0 books anymore, and I haven't been able to find a 3.0 SRD in quite a while, but...if memory serves me. An adventuring druid, (ie: someone who moves around alot, like a PC) was limited to his HD in animal companions. He could have up to 2xHD if he remained in one place (like a specific forest for example). Now it's been a while since I played 3.0, so I could be wrong but check the description for the Animal Friendship spell.
Veton 04-09-04, 08:41 AM	Originally posted by quaiven I don't have my 3.0 books anymore, and I haven't been able to find a 3.0 SRD in quite a while, but...if memory serves me. An adventuring druid, (ie: someone who moves around alot, like a PC) was limited to his HD in animal companions. He could have up to 2xHD if he remained in one place (like a specific forest for example). Now it's been a while since I played 3.0, so I could be wrong but check the description for the Animal Friendship spell. That was just something they suggested in the DMG.
KShaver 04-09-04, 09:15 AM	Originally posted by Veton That was just something they suggested in the DMG. It was a good suggestion. Too many druids wanted to be wandering circuses.
Heron_Marked_Blade 04-09-04, 10:16 AM	Originally posted by quaiven I don't have my 3.0 books anymore, and I haven't been able to find a 3.0 SRD in quite a while, but... Link in my sig.
Elf-Killer 04-11-04, 02:42 AM	give your player a regular Dire Bear, if he wants it to be advanced, he can use the ritual described in MotW to increase the companion's HD by 1, it takes a full day and costs 200xp for each HD... a regular Dire Bear has 12HD, so if he wants a 30 HD Dire Bear, he would have to spend 18 days and 3600xp, also it must be at holy place or a natural glade... this should make your player think...:rolleyes:
BW0222 04-11-04, 06:31 PM	Skydog10999, Roleplay it and stick to the rules. First, where is he going to find such a bear? If maybe one bear in 100 reaches dire size, and one bear in 100 dire bears is 15hd+, etc. A 20hd+ bear is something like one in 100 of those. He's looking for a one in a million bear. Literally have him role-play going around every nasty corner of the world looking for large bears. Even with speak with animals and detect plants or animals, this isn't going to be easy scouring the planet looking for such things. Second, how does he know it is X HD or Y Str? Role play him running into a large bear. Now what? Looks big and strong. If he wants an accurate stat ranges he can spend a few days testing the bears strength. Other than this, unless he is planning on seeing how many arrows it takes to drop the bear or how much poison it can withstand, the player has no way of knowing what the creatures HD, Hp, or Con stats are. Third, run encounters. If the players is going looking for places where 20+hd bears hang out, happily toss in things that the bear is likely to run into. Wyverns, hydras, other dire elk, packs of dire wolves, etc. isn't out of the question. Toss some other high level druids in, elves who worship the large bear as a god, etc. The bear itself might be someone elses, pregnant, with young, too old, etc. And of course confincing the bear to go out of it's safe valley to fight nasty creatures isn't a sure bet. Remember, it has to be willing to be a companion and charms and dominations (even if it somehow fails it's save). It, or some litter mates might just decide to get rid of the druid. Fourth, keep track of time. If he spends a year looking for a bear, remove him from the campaign for that length of time. Keep asking the other players if they wish to wait for the druid. If not, play without the druid. It is bad enough that the druid is going to have to take months of time training the bear. Hopefully after a month or two, he'll get the idea that he can't pick exact stats, unless he is dedicating his life to finding the "perfect bear". Fifth, role play the bear and peoples reactions to it. Remember it eats 1/10th of it's weight each day. Remember that cattle, chicken coups, dogs, the lord's horse, etc. are all valid food sources after not eating for a few days. Outside, it needs about one week out of every two to forage -- likely more if there are no dire elk to eat, etc. I'm seeing the druid hiring a small army of carts to haul tons of food with them. It can't go into any dungeon less than 10'x10', it won't go near cities, etc. And of course, no one would let such a creature near their inn, town, village, farm, etc. Town guards -- and likely an army detatchment -- would be called upon seeing a 20' bear wandering through the country-side. And of course it can't be left alone for more than a short time and no one in their right mind is going to "baby sit" for it. Thanks, Brett
DungeonMaster 04-11-04, 06:43 PM	If the druid is sitting at home in his grove, he can have an advanced dire bear. You decide how big they get, but if he scries on it, and finds it, and isn't mauled to death by it, he should get the creature. It still has to fail it's will save on his animal friendship spell. It protects his grove and keeps him company only then. As soon as he starts to adventure, he can't. He can have a 15 HD animal only. The dire bear will wander off. It's fair. Heck with charm monster you can get much more deadly creatures rather easily.
quaiven 04-11-04, 07:12 PM	Animal Friendship Enchantment (Charm) [Mind-Affecting] Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One animal Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes The character wins the loyalty of an animal. The spell functions only if the character actually wishes to be the animal's friend. If the character is not willing to treat the animal as a the spell fails. An animal's loyalty is natural (not magical) and lasting. The character can teach the befriended animal three specific tricks or tasks for each point of Intelligence it possesses. They cannot be complex (complex tricks require the Handle Animal skill). .At most, the character can have animal friends whose Hit Dice total no more than twice the character’s caster level (though the demands of adventuring generally restrict a character to half that number). The character may dismiss animal friends to enable the character to befriend new ones. Thanks to Heron This is the 3.0 version of the spell that allows a druid to gain an animal companion. I have highlighted the important parts
NinjaHedge 04-11-04, 07:28 PM	Also, if you look under the section on druids in the 3.0 PHB, it explicitly states that while adventuring they can only have hitdie up to their level. While the druid is 1st level, this particular animal is loyal enough to stay with her, even though an adventuring druid usually can only maintain animal friends whose hit dice total up to her level.