Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Anaesthesia 12-27-06, 07:39 PM	Ok, so a week ago I had a problem with a few people in my group. Mostly, it was about a certain race (no I'm not going to say what the race was because I don't want this to become a thread on race-bashing). DM-A is a general newbie to DMing, but has been playing for a long time. DM-B has been playing since 1st edition and has been DMing for at least 10 years or so and owns the house the group meets at to play game. DM-A was hosting this game and it involved races outside of the everyday Gnome, Elf, etc. DM-A told everyone at the start of character creation that we could make anything as long as it wasn't evil-aligned. After looking at the book with other races, I stated what race I wanted to do. DM-B flipped out on me and was saying how the race I picked was the most horrible race ever and shouldn't have been in any official book. I kinda looked at DM-A for support, since he was hosting the game. DM-A told DM-B that the race I chose was completely "legal" and it was fine with him. During this period of time, DM-B was name calling him(DM-A) AND me, as well kept up bashing the race, for no reason other than that he didn't like the race. Let me say that DM-B did not state his feelings about the race at the beginning of character creation and certainly didn't tell DM-A (DM-B expected him to know already..and this is a campaign no one has played as of this time). I told both of them, that I didn't think I should pick other race, unless they came to a compromise on what races I can and can't play, because I felt if I picked another of these races, both DM-A and I would get yelled at again by DM-B. At this point DM-B screams at the top of his lungs that I was being a "spoiled brat" and I should get out of his house. At this time I am trying to collect all my character sheets from the DMs of the group (I only received one so far out of 4). I feel awful about how this happened, and my subsequent "quitting" of this group, but I do feel like if I didn't DM-B would freak out on me again. What do you guys think? Was I wrong for asking for clarification on races? Thanks for any advice.
Serrin 12-27-06, 07:51 PM	DM B is either a control freak, or a 'tard. I wouldn't feel comfortable with him DMing or in his house, either.
PhaedrusXY 12-27-06, 09:00 PM	Jesus christ. I agree with Serrin. DM-B sounds like he needs an ass whoopin', therapy, or both.
DarkRhystar 12-27-06, 09:08 PM	I agree with Serrin and PhaedrusXY. DM-B sounds like a control-freak. Consider getting everyone together for games minus DM-B.
Paneki 12-27-06, 09:19 PM	I agree with everybody. Just because DM-B doesn't like the race he doesn't have the right to bash it, nerf it or any other unless he mentioned it before (or during) character creation. something like: "but in this world XXX race is feared and hated and no-one sells items to them" or "if you choose XXX race the party gets a negative morale bonuse because X and Y reasons" Other than that, he is just being a control freak. Sorry things got out of hand. The best advice I come up with is that you talk with the other players and give them your reason about why your race was so handicaped. If they agree, you all should talk to DM-B and DM-A and expose your points (planned ahead of time) Remember to cast "Calm Emotions" on all of you so no it doesn't happen the same as last time. Good Luck. ;)
Mock26 12-27-06, 10:25 PM	Count yourself lucky that you were able to see the true colors of DM-B. I would rather not play D&D than play with someone that irrational and immature. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Airos 12-28-06, 12:33 AM	Ok, so a week ago I had a problem with a few people in my group. Mostly, it was about a certain race (no I'm not going to say what the race was because I don't want this to become a thread on race-bashing). You say mostly. Aside from the race bashing, and the name calling you point out further down the post, was there other problems that you've had with this group or the DM's? Aside from that, I think you made a good call not complicating this thread with what race you chose. It's not important to your question. :tiphat: DM-A is a general newbie to DMing, but has been playing for a long time. DM-B has been playing since 1st edition and has been DMing for at least 10 years or so and owns the house the group meets at to play game. So I am assuming that DM-A and DM-B are co-DMing? Is DM-B helping DM-A learn the ropes? If so, I'd say he's off to a bad start... DM-A was hosting this game and it involved races outside of the everyday Gnome, Elf, etc. DM-A told everyone at the start of character creation that we could make anything as long as it wasn't evil-aligned. After looking at the book with other races, I stated what race I wanted to do. DM-B flipped out on me and was saying how the race I picked was the most horrible race ever and shouldn't have been in any official book. I kinda looked at DM-A for support, since he was hosting the game. DM-A told DM-B that the race I chose was completely "legal" and it was fine with him. During this period of time, DM-B was name calling him(DM-A) AND me, as well kept up bashing the race, for no reason other than that he didn't like the race. Let me say that DM-B did not state his feelings about the race at the beginning of character creation and certainly didn't tell DM-A (DM-B expected him to know already..and this is a campaign no one has played as of this time). Not quite sure what you mean by "hosting". Do you mean that the game is being played at DM-A's house instead of playing at DM-B's? Or do you mean that DM-A's is running this game as opposed to DM-B? I told both of them, that I didn't think I should pick other race, unless they came to a compromise on what races I can and can't play, because I felt if I picked another of these races, both DM-A and I would get yelled at again by DM-B. At this point DM-B screams at the top of his lungs that I was being a "spoiled brat" and I should get out of his house. It really shouldn't matter to DM-B what you play. DM-A, who is going to be running the actual game, (or not, if DM-B pushes all the players away like this), was OK with your choice. He set forth the rules, and you followed them. The second point goes back to my previous question: Who's house were you actually at? Because if you were at DM-A's house, which is what was implied, and DM-B started telling you to get out of his house.... Let's just say that if I was DM-A in that situation, I would have to him to get out of my house. At this time I am trying to collect all my character sheets from the DMs of the group (I only received one so far out of 4). I feel awful about how this happened, and my subsequent "quitting" of this group, but I do feel like if I didn't DM-B would freak out on me again. What do you guys think? Was I wrong for asking for clarification on races? Thanks for any advice. What kind of baffles me a little bit is why your DM's had you character sheets in the first place. Maybe it's a trust issue or something, and your DM's are afraid the players will run home and make all kinds of changes to their characters or something.... Like no DM is going to notice when their PCs suddenly all have 30's in every stat and artifacts out the wazoo.... Personally, I've left games for less. Oh, hey, I was trying to make a point here, wasn't I... It seems to me that DM-B is getting territorial. Perhaps he's afraid that the players, you included, will like DM-A better than you like DM-B because DM-A is allowing material that DM-B restricts simply because "he doesn't like it", and not for any good in-game reason. If I were you.... I would be a total jerk and forget that group. But that's just me. I would suggest that you try something different and try talking to both DM's, preferably together, and try sorting this out. If that doesn't work, then tell DM-A that you still want to game with him and the other players, but not at the expense of being ridiculed by DM-B for every choice you make. Just my :twocents:
Tyler Do'Urden 12-28-06, 12:42 AM	This man has issues that have nothing to do with D&D. Find a new venue and distance yourself from him ASAP.
Neofish 12-28-06, 01:10 AM	Playing a Drow or Kender has this effect on some people...
Beowulf_R_Us 12-28-06, 01:41 AM	that DM is wayyyyyy to controlling, i am both a player and a DM and i play often and i have never seen someone that... off... you shoud get away and find a more open DM and group
Mitchell 12-28-06, 01:42 AM	Maybe you can get up a game with DM-A and DM-B can stay home. The character sheet thing is a fairly common practice in my experience, Airos. The DM has a couple of reasons to keep them. The 1st is so that the sheets are all in one safe place. No worries about someone's dog eating it or it otherwise becoming lost. The 2nd is to not have to make copies of them all but still having access so that they can tailor adventures more closely to the characters as they are, not some generic Xth level party that should use Y% of their resources against challenge Z. If the rogue has a disable device skill of 3 at level 7, then the DM knows that a DC20 trap is quite tough, not the 50/50 thing that it would be if they had a 10. I suppose some DMs may worry about their players altering sheets, but it isn't a concern amongst my group, and when I do get to play, I can have my sheet if I want it.
Anaesthesia 12-28-06, 12:14 PM	Airos- ya the DM wanted to keep them so no one would lose them(there were several members, who, if they had their sheets on them, would have to make them up again each week). DM-A was learning how to DM with DM-B's help at Dm-B's house.. I never really had any problems before with DM-B, but he has done this to several other members(and they still go play DnD with him...), and most of this arguing with the others have been slightly worse than this (very few haven't)..... I do know of another group that meets 2 or 3 blocks from my house so that's why I wanted my sheets. I mean a 3rd level bard and a 5th level cleric aren't that hard to recreate, but I really wanted to have my 10th level dragon shaman..I felt I worked really, really hard on that one! Other than that, I have tried talking to the other members and currently I have been in contact with one person (I think every one else is afraid or something!!) Anyway, the race I choose wasn't like I picked a drow or anything, it was one of those kind of races in the campaign that was one of the commonly used and such. *sigh* Thanks everyone for your advice!!
DarkRhystar 12-28-06, 02:12 PM	Anyway, the race I choose wasn't like I picked a drow or anything, it was one of those kind of races in the campaign that was one of the commonly used and such. *sigh* I'm kinda curious as to what race it was. :)
Mock26 12-28-06, 04:30 PM	While I don't keep the players character sheets, I do maintain my own copy of the sheets that are updated periodically. I do this primarily in case a player can't make it for a session, and, a few items have been carefully removed by some over zealous thieves. These missing items are noted on my copy, but not the player's copy. Plus, I like being able to pull out a small stack of character sheets that represent one of the player's character as he/she progressed from 1st level thru the current level. I enjoy seeing how they progressed. I do not do this in an attempt to keep my players honest, though. I trust them to be honest. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Drohem 12-28-06, 05:50 PM	This is a clear case of projection. The DM called you a spoiled brat, yet he pulled the classic kid move: "I'm taking my toys and going home!" Unfortunately, in this case it was his home. He is childish and petty. As others have already stated, count yourself lucky that you have seen his true colors and got out of the situation relatively cheap. In the future, I would recommend never giving over your character sheets or books to a DM. That is just weird and controlling. Give the DM a copy and just provide level updates. In my groups' case, we have a message board hosted by one of the players and we just post an updated character sheet whenever the character levels up or needs an update. Also, email is a great medium for this if you don't want others to see your updates. I no longer create paper versions of my characters. I create an electronic version of my character sheet, and just update it for each level. This is great because you can keep a record of each level and track development of the character for future reference or story purposes. I just email my DM the updated version of the character sheet at each level. This works out great, and any reasonable person should be fine with this type of exchange.
Mock26 12-28-06, 06:20 PM	I thought that this was taking place at the home of DM-A, not DM-B. The original post says that DM-A was hosting. To me, that says that is was at DM-A's house. In the same post, it says: At this point DM-B screams at the top of his lungs that I was being a "spoiled brat" and I should get out of his house. The fact that "his" is italicized also leads me to believe that DM-B was speaking as if he were in his own home. But, I could be wrong.
DarkRhystar 12-28-06, 08:35 PM	I thought that this was taking place at the home of DM-A, not DM-B. The original post says that DM-A was hosting. To me, that says that is was at DM-A's house. In the same post, it says: The fact that "his" is italicized also leads me to believe that DM-B was speaking as if he were in his own home. But, I could be wrong. Read again: DM-B has been playing since 1st edition and has been DMing for at least 10 years or so and owns the house the group meets at to play game.
Mock26 12-28-06, 08:45 PM	DarkRhystar, I understand that DM-B is the regular host. But, in this case, I think that this particular incident took place at the home of DB-A. Please read the highligted parts: Ok, so a week ago I had a problem with a few people in my group. Mostly, it was about a certain race (no I'm not going to say what the race was because I don't want this to become a thread on race-bashing). DM-A is a general newbie to DMing, but has been playing for a long time. DM-B has been playing since 1st edition and has been DMing for at least 10 years or so and owns the house the group meets at to play game. DM-A was hosting this game and it involved races outside of the everyday Gnome, Elf, etc. DM-A told everyone at the start of character creation that we could make anything as long as it wasn't evil-aligned. After looking at the book with other races, I stated what race I wanted to do. DM-B flipped out on me and was saying how the race I picked was the most horrible race ever and shouldn't have been in any official book. I kinda looked at DM-A for support, since he was hosting the game. DM-A told DM-B that the race I chose was completely "legal" and it was fine with him. During this period of time, DM-B was name calling him(DM-A) AND me, as well kept up bashing the race, for no reason other than that he didn't like the race. Let me say that DM-B did not state his feelings about the race at the beginning of character creation and certainly didn't tell DM-A (DM-B expected him to know already..and this is a campaign no one has played as of this time). I told both of them, that I didn't think I should pick other race, unless they came to a compromise on what races I can and can't play, because I felt if I picked another of these races, both DM-A and I would get yelled at again by DM-B. At this point DM-B screams at the top of his lungs that I was being a "spoiled brat" and I should get out of his house. At this time I am trying to collect all my character sheets from the DMs of the group (I only received one so far out of 4). I feel awful about how this happened, and my subsequent "quitting" of this group, but I do feel like if I didn't DM-B would freak out on me again. What do you guys think? Was I wrong for asking for clarification on races? Thanks for any advice. Generally speaking, if it is said that Mr. X is hosting an event, that implies that he is hosting it at his house, not the house of someone else. That, combined with the italicized "his" leads me to believe that this event actually did take place at the house of DM-A. But, the original poster might not have meant that, which is why I posted my last post, to get clarification from the original poster.
Anaesthesia 12-28-06, 09:58 PM	DM-A was only hosting the game, and DM-B had the house that DM-A's game was at... (is that clearer for everyone? I might have mis-typed so that's why it looks weird......) Again, everyone, thanks for the additional advice, etc.. Ana
Rell 12-28-06, 10:19 PM	Erm, wait a second : while I agree about DM-B having been too angry for comfort on that particular night, a singular event shouldn't enough to stop seeing a friend. Have you talked with him since that ? Maybe he was tired or something. I'd suggest you try to see the opinion of your fellow players - including DM-A and try to get a cold-headed explanation from DM-B before you leave your roleplaying group, your job, your town and your dog. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but it can't really hurt, can it ?
Anaesthesia 12-28-06, 10:36 PM	The only explanation I got (through another member of the group) was that someone else did that race and the person roledplayed her character not exactly crazy, but close to it, with the character (as a char. quirk or something), so DM-B took it upon himself to kill off that character(in game and substequently also booted the person out of his house, too) and tell off everyone else who wants to play that race...(I know it's new info, but they just told me) I don't know, but that explanation sounds FUNNY to me. OH by the way. The person from the group also said DM-B went basically balistic during that game and his character decided he was a canibal when the person got him a little ticked off about a petty outside of game thing (he thought the person was drifting from the group's motives for the game, and what the person I'm talking to says, the person didn't deviate a lot aside from the crazy roleplaying part)... *sigh* Oh, I forgot, the incident between me and the DM-B took place at like 1 in the afternoon.
Mock26 12-28-06, 10:49 PM	DM-A was only hosting the game, and DM-B had the house that DM-A's game was at... (is that clearer for everyone? I might have mis-typed so that's why it looks weird......) Again, everyone, thanks for the additional advice, etc.. Ana Thanks for the clarification. I misunderstood the post.
Ryusage 12-29-06, 02:42 PM	do a google for the following. Steve site:boards1.wizards.com that should solve all of your problems :)
High Octane 12-30-06, 03:40 PM	What race was it?? I must know!
taradusis 12-30-06, 06:55 PM	You actually have a problem with 2 bad people,DM-B is a jerk you should avoid like everyone else is going to avoid.DM-A is unable or unwilling to provide an enjoyable session for his players.Talk to DM-A about playing at a new house minus DM-B.If this fails buy a few books and start your own game,pilfer the players from your old game and try not to laugh when you see DM-B on the street.:)
Merryadocc 12-30-06, 08:30 PM	I had a player whose house we used to play at, he tried to force rule changes in my games cos it was his house, there fore the "house rules" where his to control. Very annoying! Communictaion is the key to over coming this, and I still don't allow drow players unless we are in an underdark campaign and someone has joined late or died, the starting players being non-drow surface dwellers, yet when they get to the surface they have to under go a ritual that makes them standard elf or they get killed, like in Feist's book Magician. They where a munchkin race from 2nd ED I never let people play, plus they are an evil race that raid the surface at night for their evil schemes, if one enters a village or town they should get mobbed while having screamed at them "RED EYED DEVIL, KILL IT"; they where called red eye devils in one of the old source books because they had superior infravision because their eyes where a source "light" or heat for infravision. I am curious to know what race you played, I already bashed drow so you can't blame yourself for the race bashing starting in this thread. So can you tell us? :)
Mock26 12-30-06, 08:43 PM	I would rather not play D&D than you be the DM and someone else's house and have the person try to enforce rules changes simply becaue it was his house. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Merryadocc 12-30-06, 08:56 PM	I would rather not play D&D than you be the DM and someone else's house and have the person try to enforce rules changes simply becaue it was his house. Don't worry, he didn't get his way, and he tried some insane load of sh!t arguements to try and win.