Hero Craftsmen: A player's challenge. Judges and general opinions needed. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Hero Craftsmen: A player's challenge. Judges and general opinions needed. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Doopliss
02-01-06, 01:13 AM With the two recent attempts at setting up a Master Player Competition, I figured I'd give it a shot myself.

Hero Craftsmen is a two-part competition. During the first segment, each competitor decides whether he intends to stick around for the second round, and creates a backstory for his character. There will be no elements that must be added, or that grant a point bonus by adding them. If the player intends to stick around for the second round, his character must be of a certain level(Including level adjustment, if any. The specific level will vary with each competition) and he must provide a statistic block for his character. This statistics block must be made with a 28-point buy and recommended character wealth. (Any items are allowed for purchase with this, at market price.) Other than that, it's an open field.

Scoring: Each judge (Three judges in all) gives an entry zero to eight points for his character in general, zero to six points for story-telling, how well-written and enjoyable the backstory is to read, and zero to four points for origionality. Should the competitor wish to continue to the second round, inconsistencies with the provided character block can result in deductions from the score at each individual judges' discretion. (A wealthy merchant with VoP, acts that his ability scores could not possibly allow, etc.) The judges do not share this information with the competitors. Each judge must also nominate, again through PMs, a certain entry to give a bonus point to for whatever reason. This single point will likely have next to no impact on the actual event, and is mainly a bonus prize. Should no two of the judges nominate the same entry, they will converse via PMs until an agreement can be reached. Naturally enough, the competitor with the highest score wins.

________________________________________ ______________________

The second round is an entirely different competition, the only similarity in the characters from the first round. A quest or other challenge awaits the players. This (Mission, henceforth) is revealed at the beginning of the second round, and will not be something that can be achieved through sheer combat prowess. This comes with a brief discription of the current scenario. Should this competition go around more than once, the mission will vary with each competition.

Each player corresponds with the founder(me) via PMs, explaining his actions. As each adventure may branch off in widely different directions, the founder then corresponds with each player in turn updating the scenarios via PMs and asking for new actions by the player. During the first PM, the competitor must also say whether or not he would like his specific actions public, so he may rely on others to back him up if I make a dumb call. If he chooses to make it public, the full record of all PMs will be posted at the end of the competition. When the mission is complete or, in rare cases, failed, the founder sends a record of all PMs between the founder and player to the other two judges, personal comments in underlined text(No personal opinions, just stuff like "Total rescource expediture. 1200 GP out of 50000 GP total wealth") All rulings are open to appeal and can be overturned with consensus of two of the three judges or overwhelming support from non-judges. In a similar strain, the players can request for any series of events during his correspondence with the founder to be made public for any reason, in which case the founder will make a post recording the events the player wishes to be made public. No rulings can be overturned once the contest has ended. With the consensus of two of the three judges, any player can be disqualified from the second round altogether for any reason. This decision must be made before the founder first replies to the player in question, and is open to appeal.

Each player has a pool of 'luck.' This pool is called upon each time he needs to make a roll higher than 3, or in an enemy's case lower than 17. The exact amount of luck each player starts with varies with the mission. Using this method, a player chooses what he rolls and an element of randomness is removed from the competition.

Luck tables:
Each set of two numbers higher than three but lower than ten cost 1 luck point. For example, a roll of 5 costs one luck point, but a roll of 6 or 7 costs 2 luck points.
Each number higher than ten but below 15 costs one luck point. For example, a roll of twelve costs 6 luck. Four for seven points above three but below ten, two for two points above ten.
Each number higher than 14 costs two luck points. Naturally, one cannot roll higher than a 20(before modifiers, of course) under any circumstances.
For low rolls, invert the tables. Two points of luck for every set of two numbers lower than seventeen but above eleven, one additional point per number below eleven but above six, etc.
Rolling non-d20 dice costs one luck per 1/6 margin of the dice rolled, starting from the minimum outcome. Thus a roll of three on a d6 costs two luck. Favorable to the d20 rules. Should a player completely run out of luck, he can roll nothing but natural 1s (or his enemies natural 20s) from that point onward.

Scoring:
As before, each of these point totals are given out by each individual judge. The rankings from each judge are added together to determine the final score.
Rescource expediture: This depends on how much you used up during the mission. This can also extend to include ability drain, negative levels, etc. Scoring from 0 to 7 points.
Risk: Even with the pool of luck, a tactic requiring a natural 20 to succeed is hardly ideal. This can mean more than rolls, though, such as an enemy attacking a certain character when he would be just as likely to attack another, etc. Scoring from 0 to 10 points.
Intrest: a potion of feather fall is fine and good, but rapelling down using a grappling hook while returning fire at six enemy archers is better. Scores from 0 to 7
Roleplaying: Basically sticking with your mental ability scores, alignment, etc. Scores a measily 0 to 4.
Subtract ten points if the player dies or fails to complete the mission.
Highest score wins, as always.

Whew, that's tough to write up. I will be acting as a judge myself, so there are two vacant spots for judges. Also, I need as much contructive criticism as possible. ;)
TheChilliGod
02-01-06, 03:13 AM Whew, that's tough to write up. I will be acting as a judge myself, so there are two vacant spots for judges.Ooh! I love playing Judge! Pick me!
Wait... I guess I should PM you or something like that, huh... Better get out my resumé.

And, I'm assuming your 'luck' pool at the beginning of this mission is determined by your scoring at the first session. So, if you got 18 points, then you'd get 18 luck points to spend throughout the mission.

I also think that the total number of points for the stages should be even, like a total of 20/30, instead of 18/28. Maybe 2 extra points for being accurate with the rules on stage 1, and 6 points for roleplaying instead of 4.

Also, the points for both stages add up, right? So the total amount of points is 46 (50 if the paragraph above is implemented)?

Finally, is there going to be a theme? MDMC's always have themes. ;)
Doopliss
02-01-06, 10:52 AM Nah, the two competitions are completely interchangeable. I want everyone to start out equally in the second. They're two different awards. Keep in mind, 14 luck nets you a natural 20. Methinks we'd have to take 1/5 of the final score or soemthing. Still, it might work. Anyone else have thoughts on these two methods?

P.S. No PM necessary. Welcome to the judging board. :)
Doopliss
02-01-06, 10:53 PM UPDATE:

A quick alteration to the luck system. See first post.

We still need one more judge. There are no requirements for becoming a judge, just ask. :)
TheChilliGod
02-01-06, 11:36 PM Exxxcellent. I R Judge. :plotting:

But you never answered my other comments. Extra scoring points to make the total more even, the scoring points for both stages adding up, & whether or not there will be themes (like, is every competition going to be like this one (but with different elements, such as savage-only characters or rogue-only characters) or will we be focusing on different stuff (like the previous competitions) each competition). It might also be good to make the required character level variable, depending on the themes of the competitions. (if themes do exist)
:confused:
Doopliss
02-02-06, 12:21 AM But you never answered my other comments.

Sorry, my mind was kind of wandering when I last responded. I'll cover that now.

...whether or not there will be themes (like, is every competition going to be like this one (but with different elements, such as savage-only characters or rogue-only characters)

I don't want to pose limits on the backstory, (Hence the lack of required elements) but each 'round two' will vary greatly, possibly enough to make round-one limitations worthwhile. Round-one requirements will be rare, but I guarantee the Missions will be varied and often outlandish. (I'm toying with the idea of giving you x gp, x men, some rough guidelines, and telling you to build a fortress and defenses for said fortress) We're likely going to go with something more traditional for the first competition, though. If a Mission relies on previous competitions, it would probably be something simple like the previous winners finding an artifact you need to recover.

It might also be good to make the required character level variable, depending on the themes of the competitions. (if themes do exist)
:confused:

Ooh, I like that idea. Will update the first post. :)

I also think that the total number of points for the stages should be even, like a total of 20/30, instead of 18/28. Maybe 2 extra points for being accurate with the rules on stage 1, and 6 points for roleplaying instead of 4.

I suppose there's nothing wrong with looking fancy, but it might be better served nice and chaotic, but more fair all-around. The roleplaying score for the second round is intentionally low, I want that round to be mainly based on player skill. This one seems to deserve more debate, though. :)

Also, the points for both stages add up, right? So the total amount of points is 46 (50 if the paragraph above is implemented)?

Actually, no. The two rounds are two different competitions, two different awards. It's also why advancement to the second round is completely optional. I suppose I need to work on being more specific.

Finally, is there going to be a theme? MDMC's always have themes. ;)

There will sort of, sort of not be themes. As said before, round-one restrictions will be rare but the Missions will vary greatly.

I'm considering the idea of the Bonus Point granting a bonus to luck in the second round. Not much, just around 5-10 points. (Assuming the person awarded the point intends to stick around for round two. Judges should be under no pressure to avoid giving the point to someone only in round one.)
Any opinions on this?
Doopliss
02-02-06, 01:30 PM UPDATE: It just occured to me that by walking away and forefitting the mission, one can get 7 out of 24 points for round two. For this and similar reasons, a majority of judges may now disqualify someone from round two for any reason they see fit. This will, of course, be open to appeal as are most round two rulings. First post updated.
Doopliss
02-03-06, 12:54 PM Bump. We need one more judge before I can let this die...
Doopliss
02-04-06, 11:11 PM I swear, I shall bump this thread until the mods themselves prevent me from! Absolutely nobody else is interested in judging?
Doopliss
02-05-06, 10:14 PM I want to let this die as much as the next man, but we need one more judge...
Jayr
02-06-06, 10:12 AM I'd judge if I didn't want to enter this comp so much.
Doopliss
02-06-06, 04:46 PM Heh, fair enough... You think I could post an advert on D&D General?
TheChilliGod
02-07-06, 01:24 PM I sure don't see why you shouldn't.
If it's going to take this long to get a judge, then anything will help about now.
Doopliss
02-10-06, 10:50 PM Bump. I doubt any of the WIAPTD frequents are interested, so I'll post the advert. I won't be able to post for ten days, though.
Doopliss
02-11-06, 06:43 AM UPDATE: It seems the D&D General thread is failing like this one. I've saved the rules to my computer and need to leave on vacation in ten minutes, so I think I'll let this die, then make a new one later. ChilliGod will retain his judge status, though. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Doopliss 02-01-06, 01:13 AM	With the two recent attempts at setting up a Master Player Competition, I figured I'd give it a shot myself. Hero Craftsmen is a two-part competition. During the first segment, each competitor decides whether he intends to stick around for the second round, and creates a backstory for his character. There will be no elements that must be added, or that grant a point bonus by adding them. If the player intends to stick around for the second round, his character must be of a certain level(Including level adjustment, if any. The specific level will vary with each competition) and he must provide a statistic block for his character. This statistics block must be made with a 28-point buy and recommended character wealth. (Any items are allowed for purchase with this, at market price.) Other than that, it's an open field. Scoring: Each judge (Three judges in all) gives an entry zero to eight points for his character in general, zero to six points for story-telling, how well-written and enjoyable the backstory is to read, and zero to four points for origionality. Should the competitor wish to continue to the second round, inconsistencies with the provided character block can result in deductions from the score at each individual judges' discretion. (A wealthy merchant with VoP, acts that his ability scores could not possibly allow, etc.) The judges do not share this information with the competitors. Each judge must also nominate, again through PMs, a certain entry to give a bonus point to for whatever reason. This single point will likely have next to no impact on the actual event, and is mainly a bonus prize. Should no two of the judges nominate the same entry, they will converse via PMs until an agreement can be reached. Naturally enough, the competitor with the highest score wins. ________________________________________ ______________________ The second round is an entirely different competition, the only similarity in the characters from the first round. A quest or other challenge awaits the players. This (Mission, henceforth) is revealed at the beginning of the second round, and will not be something that can be achieved through sheer combat prowess. This comes with a brief discription of the current scenario. Should this competition go around more than once, the mission will vary with each competition. Each player corresponds with the founder(me) via PMs, explaining his actions. As each adventure may branch off in widely different directions, the founder then corresponds with each player in turn updating the scenarios via PMs and asking for new actions by the player. During the first PM, the competitor must also say whether or not he would like his specific actions public, so he may rely on others to back him up if I make a dumb call. If he chooses to make it public, the full record of all PMs will be posted at the end of the competition. When the mission is complete or, in rare cases, failed, the founder sends a record of all PMs between the founder and player to the other two judges, personal comments in underlined text(No personal opinions, just stuff like "Total rescource expediture. 1200 GP out of 50000 GP total wealth") All rulings are open to appeal and can be overturned with consensus of two of the three judges or overwhelming support from non-judges. In a similar strain, the players can request for any series of events during his correspondence with the founder to be made public for any reason, in which case the founder will make a post recording the events the player wishes to be made public. No rulings can be overturned once the contest has ended. With the consensus of two of the three judges, any player can be disqualified from the second round altogether for any reason. This decision must be made before the founder first replies to the player in question, and is open to appeal. Each player has a pool of 'luck.' This pool is called upon each time he needs to make a roll higher than 3, or in an enemy's case lower than 17. The exact amount of luck each player starts with varies with the mission. Using this method, a player chooses what he rolls and an element of randomness is removed from the competition. Luck tables: Each set of two numbers higher than three but lower than ten cost 1 luck point. For example, a roll of 5 costs one luck point, but a roll of 6 or 7 costs 2 luck points. Each number higher than ten but below 15 costs one luck point. For example, a roll of twelve costs 6 luck. Four for seven points above three but below ten, two for two points above ten. Each number higher than 14 costs two luck points. Naturally, one cannot roll higher than a 20(before modifiers, of course) under any circumstances. For low rolls, invert the tables. Two points of luck for every set of two numbers lower than seventeen but above eleven, one additional point per number below eleven but above six, etc. Rolling non-d20 dice costs one luck per 1/6 margin of the dice rolled, starting from the minimum outcome. Thus a roll of three on a d6 costs two luck. Favorable to the d20 rules. Should a player completely run out of luck, he can roll nothing but natural 1s (or his enemies natural 20s) from that point onward. Scoring: As before, each of these point totals are given out by each individual judge. The rankings from each judge are added together to determine the final score. Rescource expediture: This depends on how much you used up during the mission. This can also extend to include ability drain, negative levels, etc. Scoring from 0 to 7 points. Risk: Even with the pool of luck, a tactic requiring a natural 20 to succeed is hardly ideal. This can mean more than rolls, though, such as an enemy attacking a certain character when he would be just as likely to attack another, etc. Scoring from 0 to 10 points. Intrest: a potion of feather fall is fine and good, but rapelling down using a grappling hook while returning fire at six enemy archers is better. Scores from 0 to 7 Roleplaying: Basically sticking with your mental ability scores, alignment, etc. Scores a measily 0 to 4. Subtract ten points if the player dies or fails to complete the mission. Highest score wins, as always. Whew, that's tough to write up. I will be acting as a judge myself, so there are two vacant spots for judges. Also, I need as much contructive criticism as possible. ;)
TheChilliGod 02-01-06, 03:13 AM	Whew, that's tough to write up. I will be acting as a judge myself, so there are two vacant spots for judges.Ooh! I love playing Judge! Pick me! Wait... I guess I should PM you or something like that, huh... Better get out my resumé. And, I'm assuming your 'luck' pool at the beginning of this mission is determined by your scoring at the first session. So, if you got 18 points, then you'd get 18 luck points to spend throughout the mission. I also think that the total number of points for the stages should be even, like a total of 20/30, instead of 18/28. Maybe 2 extra points for being accurate with the rules on stage 1, and 6 points for roleplaying instead of 4. Also, the points for both stages add up, right? So the total amount of points is 46 (50 if the paragraph above is implemented)? Finally, is there going to be a theme? MDMC's always have themes. ;)
Doopliss 02-01-06, 10:52 AM	Nah, the two competitions are completely interchangeable. I want everyone to start out equally in the second. They're two different awards. Keep in mind, 14 luck nets you a natural 20. Methinks we'd have to take 1/5 of the final score or soemthing. Still, it might work. Anyone else have thoughts on these two methods? P.S. No PM necessary. Welcome to the judging board. :)
Doopliss 02-01-06, 10:53 PM	UPDATE: A quick alteration to the luck system. See first post. We still need one more judge. There are no requirements for becoming a judge, just ask. :)
TheChilliGod 02-01-06, 11:36 PM	Exxxcellent. I R Judge. :plotting: But you never answered my other comments. Extra scoring points to make the total more even, the scoring points for both stages adding up, & whether or not there will be themes (like, is every competition going to be like this one (but with different elements, such as savage-only characters or rogue-only characters) or will we be focusing on different stuff (like the previous competitions) each competition). It might also be good to make the required character level variable, depending on the themes of the competitions. (if themes do exist) :confused:
Doopliss 02-02-06, 12:21 AM	But you never answered my other comments. Sorry, my mind was kind of wandering when I last responded. I'll cover that now. ...whether or not there will be themes (like, is every competition going to be like this one (but with different elements, such as savage-only characters or rogue-only characters) I don't want to pose limits on the backstory, (Hence the lack of required elements) but each 'round two' will vary greatly, possibly enough to make round-one limitations worthwhile. Round-one requirements will be rare, but I guarantee the Missions will be varied and often outlandish. (I'm toying with the idea of giving you x gp, x men, some rough guidelines, and telling you to build a fortress and defenses for said fortress) We're likely going to go with something more traditional for the first competition, though. If a Mission relies on previous competitions, it would probably be something simple like the previous winners finding an artifact you need to recover. It might also be good to make the required character level variable, depending on the themes of the competitions. (if themes do exist) :confused: Ooh, I like that idea. Will update the first post. :) I also think that the total number of points for the stages should be even, like a total of 20/30, instead of 18/28. Maybe 2 extra points for being accurate with the rules on stage 1, and 6 points for roleplaying instead of 4. I suppose there's nothing wrong with looking fancy, but it might be better served nice and chaotic, but more fair all-around. The roleplaying score for the second round is intentionally low, I want that round to be mainly based on player skill. This one seems to deserve more debate, though. :) Also, the points for both stages add up, right? So the total amount of points is 46 (50 if the paragraph above is implemented)? Actually, no. The two rounds are two different competitions, two different awards. It's also why advancement to the second round is completely optional. I suppose I need to work on being more specific. Finally, is there going to be a theme? MDMC's always have themes. ;) There will sort of, sort of not be themes. As said before, round-one restrictions will be rare but the Missions will vary greatly. I'm considering the idea of the Bonus Point granting a bonus to luck in the second round. Not much, just around 5-10 points. (Assuming the person awarded the point intends to stick around for round two. Judges should be under no pressure to avoid giving the point to someone only in round one.) Any opinions on this?
Doopliss 02-02-06, 01:30 PM	UPDATE: It just occured to me that by walking away and forefitting the mission, one can get 7 out of 24 points for round two. For this and similar reasons, a majority of judges may now disqualify someone from round two for any reason they see fit. This will, of course, be open to appeal as are most round two rulings. First post updated.
Doopliss 02-03-06, 12:54 PM	Bump. We need one more judge before I can let this die...
Doopliss 02-04-06, 11:11 PM	I swear, I shall bump this thread until the mods themselves prevent me from! Absolutely nobody else is interested in judging?
Doopliss 02-05-06, 10:14 PM	I want to let this die as much as the next man, but we need one more judge...
Jayr 02-06-06, 10:12 AM	I'd judge if I didn't want to enter this comp so much.
Doopliss 02-06-06, 04:46 PM	Heh, fair enough... You think I could post an advert on D&D General?
TheChilliGod 02-07-06, 01:24 PM	I sure don't see why you shouldn't. If it's going to take this long to get a judge, then anything will help about now.
Doopliss 02-10-06, 10:50 PM	Bump. I doubt any of the WIAPTD frequents are interested, so I'll post the advert. I won't be able to post for ten days, though.
Doopliss 02-11-06, 06:43 AM	UPDATE: It seems the D&D General thread is failing like this one. I've saved the rules to my computer and need to leave on vacation in ten minutes, so I think I'll let this die, then make a new one later. ChilliGod will retain his judge status, though. :)