hey..need some rogue help [Archive] - Wizards Community

hey..need some rogue help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sunkist_junky
05-27-06, 11:48 PM hey guys...i recently ran into a problem with the wording of hide and sneak attack...i have a character that was allowed to obtain the ability shadowblend....which allows me to have total concealment in any conditions other than direct sunlight....now....it says for sneak attack you have to catch them flat-footed or flank your enemy for sneak attack.....now it says that invisibility allows you to attack them and they're flat-footed, but for concealment it doesnt directly say that you catch them flatfooted..it's merely a defensive measure...but if i have total concealment.....doesnt that mean they can't see me..which should mean i can catch them flatfooted for my first attack at least....i dunno how to defend myself and my dm is saying that it doesnt work for sneak.....am i missing a obvious rule somewhere or am i really screwed here?
kelvinaw273
05-28-06, 12:20 AM No. Read the entry for sneak attack carefully: you can sneak attack whenever your target is not in a position to protect themselves adequately against you, and you can pick a vital spot to strike. Flanking and being flat-footed are EXAMPLES of this situation.

Toyal conceal ment SHOULD mean you are hidden, so an opposed hide vs. spot check should be made. Obviously if you hide right in front of them, they will still be aware that you are close and will defend themselves. If you start already hidden, then a spot vs hide check should tell if they catch you out.

If you are concealed and they do not spot you before you strike, they will be flat-footed anyway. If they don't spot you, roll for surprise as normal. Generally speaking, if you can reach the target and strike in a single surprise combat round, you should sneak attack.
SoldierOfFortune187
05-28-06, 12:25 AM Think of concealment as interference in properly identifying a target, whereas cover actually blocks sight of the target. The greater the degree of concealment, the more modifiers come into play, and by the time you reach total concealment, you are completely obscured from view (i.e. invisible).

Consider this (for the sake of defending yourself) : Two characters are fighting (we'll say they are both rogues). At some point in the fight, the lighting goes completely out (middle of a moonless, starless night for example, or deep underground). Both characters now have total concealment from one another, effectively making each invisible. All appropriate modifiers would come into effect, as they would be swinging blindly. However, one of the characters has darkvision, so is completely unaffected by the lack of light and can see with perfect clarity the other character. As they are now 'invisible' from total concealment, can see their opponent and study them, they are free to make sneak attacks against them.

While I don't know the exact description of the ability you were given (i.e. functions continuous, fails as invisibility does after a hostile action, etc) I can't say that ALL your attacks should be sneak attacks, but if your opponent doesn't have some ability to detect you in the dark (lowlight/darkvision), you should get at least one sneak attack on them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sunkist_junky 05-27-06, 11:48 PM	hey guys...i recently ran into a problem with the wording of hide and sneak attack...i have a character that was allowed to obtain the ability shadowblend....which allows me to have total concealment in any conditions other than direct sunlight....now....it says for sneak attack you have to catch them flat-footed or flank your enemy for sneak attack.....now it says that invisibility allows you to attack them and they're flat-footed, but for concealment it doesnt directly say that you catch them flatfooted..it's merely a defensive measure...but if i have total concealment.....doesnt that mean they can't see me..which should mean i can catch them flatfooted for my first attack at least....i dunno how to defend myself and my dm is saying that it doesnt work for sneak.....am i missing a obvious rule somewhere or am i really screwed here?
kelvinaw273 05-28-06, 12:20 AM	No. Read the entry for sneak attack carefully: you can sneak attack whenever your target is not in a position to protect themselves adequately against you, and you can pick a vital spot to strike. Flanking and being flat-footed are EXAMPLES of this situation. Toyal conceal ment SHOULD mean you are hidden, so an opposed hide vs. spot check should be made. Obviously if you hide right in front of them, they will still be aware that you are close and will defend themselves. If you start already hidden, then a spot vs hide check should tell if they catch you out. If you are concealed and they do not spot you before you strike, they will be flat-footed anyway. If they don't spot you, roll for surprise as normal. Generally speaking, if you can reach the target and strike in a single surprise combat round, you should sneak attack.
SoldierOfFortune187 05-28-06, 12:25 AM	Think of concealment as interference in properly identifying a target, whereas cover actually blocks sight of the target. The greater the degree of concealment, the more modifiers come into play, and by the time you reach total concealment, you are completely obscured from view (i.e. invisible). Consider this (for the sake of defending yourself) : Two characters are fighting (we'll say they are both rogues). At some point in the fight, the lighting goes completely out (middle of a moonless, starless night for example, or deep underground). Both characters now have total concealment from one another, effectively making each invisible. All appropriate modifiers would come into effect, as they would be swinging blindly. However, one of the characters has darkvision, so is completely unaffected by the lack of light and can see with perfect clarity the other character. As they are now 'invisible' from total concealment, can see their opponent and study them, they are free to make sneak attacks against them. While I don't know the exact description of the ability you were given (i.e. functions continuous, fails as invisibility does after a hostile action, etc) I can't say that ALL your attacks should be sneak attacks, but if your opponent doesn't have some ability to detect you in the dark (lowlight/darkvision), you should get at least one sneak attack on them.