Post/Author/DateTime	Post
timenight113 05-22-06, 12:05 AM	well my DM is acting odd the way. he says that if i make a hide check (after finding out if there is enough cover/consealment) i cant make a sneak attack unless i am in a one on one fight. like if my group is up vs 5 gaint ants, like we ran into the other day. he said that even if i got enough of a hide check that none of them saw me that i didnt get sneak attack cause they already on their guard cause its combat.... which makes no since cause if they cant see me how can they guard vs me? it makes no since at all. Is there any where i can show him where the rules say i can.... or am i wrong? i mean it makes my rouge useless... and it doesnt make since to me at all... i mean if they had some feat or ability like sent or something it would make since.
JadeSpider9643 05-22-06, 12:33 AM	They won't be flatfooted if that's what your trying to achieve from hiding. You can still sneak attack if you get into a flanking position with an ally.
ressurrector 05-22-06, 12:54 AM	via the rules: if they cannot see you, you are effectively invisible, and they loose their Dex to AC vs your next attack. (not next series of attacks) By rules, you can sneak attack them. Although, you aren't going to be able to hide while in melee combat with them, so you're probably going to have to move in and attack, or shoot a bow or other ranged weapon.
TheChilliGod 05-22-06, 12:59 AM	I never really figured out how that made sense either. Even (nay, especially) if it's a 1 vs. 1 fight, and you've already been spotted (unless you wait for the guy to forget about you, I suppose, but if you hide behind a rock in a gladiator arena during a match, chances are he will not be put off.) Probably this is because creatures in combat are assumed to be looking all around them, judging what is going on in the background of the combat. Therefore, they would be realistically able to see anybody coming up on them, and be able to reflex themselves away from the surprise attack (not to mention that their adrenaline's already up high, higher than it would be if they were not in combat, and this would help to make up for any situation where you may be able to effectively surprise them.) unless they're being flanked, in which case they could still look around, but then they wouldn't have the luxury in combat to make complete turns to look behind them without taking their focus off of the enemy for at least a bit (which is why you can sneak attack when flanking). Note that you still have to move up to them to attack them, unless you're in ranged combat, meaning that the enemy would have enough time to notice you, theoretically. But you can still flank, and there's still feinting available for you, if you're that way inclined. via the rules: if they cannot see you, you are effectively invisible, and they loose their Dex to AC vs your next attack. (not next series of attacks) By rules, you can sneak attack them. Although, you aren't going to be able to hide while in melee combat with them, so you're probably going to have to move in and attack, or shoot a bow or other ranged weapon. Eh? Where on earth does it say that you're effectively invisible if you hide? I would have thought that, given the description of the hide skill, that invisibility and hiding are two different things (being invisible just gives you a nice bonus to hide). And, if you move in to attack, doesn't that mean that you are no longer hiding, which means that you would no longer be "invisible," and therefore the enemy has his dex bonus back?
timenight113 05-22-06, 01:03 AM	via the rules: if they cannot see you, you are effectively invisible, and they loose their Dex to AC vs your next attack. (not next series of attacks) By rules, you can sneak attack them. Although, you aren't going to be able to hide while in melee combat with them, so you're probably going to have to move in and attack, or shoot a bow or other ranged weapon. see that is what i thought but he says that since there is more than one of them and that we r in a group the creature r on their guard and wouldnt lose their dex to their ac so i cant use a sneak attack (and it is a ranged attack with a sling i am a halfling lol). also where does it say that exactly in the books so i can show him he says if i put up a good defense of it he might change his mind.
ressurrector 05-22-06, 04:50 AM	see that is what i thought but he says that since there is more than one of them and that we r in a group the creature r on their guard and wouldnt lose their dex to their ac so i cant use a sneak attack (and it is a ranged attack with a sling i am a halfling lol). also where does it say that exactly in the books so i can show him he says if i put up a good defense of it he might change his mind. P136, top left hand column You loose your Dexterity bonus when, for example, an invisible opponant attacks you also p151, table 8-5, subnote 2 The defender looses any Dexterity bonus to ACThis subtext is referring to the "attacker is invisible" entry on the table. It also states on table 8-6 subscript 1 that a blinded defender also looses any Dexterity to AC. Hide prevents your opponant(s) from seeing you, rendering you effectively invisible. Remember, you cannot hide while being watched without either bluffing to provide a distraction, or having a special ability that says you can. You can immediatly make a hide check after attacking with a ranged weapon, at a -20 penalty. If you show him the above pages in the book, and then ask him if an opponant you hide from can see you, it should be convincing.
kelvinaw273 05-22-06, 04:51 AM	A one-on-one is the situation in which you CANNOT make a sneak attack, unless you attack somebody who is unaware of your presence, then you get the first attack in as a sneak (and they presumably turn around and fight you). Sneak attacking is all about flanking. You hard guy fighter takes on a baddy face-to-face, slugging it out the hard way, and the rogue uses sneak/tumble/whatever to get behind the baddy and flanks him, delivering sneak attacks that do massive damage and take him down fast. When flanking, both flankers get a +2 attack bonus, and if the target is not fighting a rogue, then the rogue can sneak attack them. Your DM needs to re-read the rulebook. Slowly.
timenight113 05-22-06, 12:53 PM	P136, top left hand column also p151, table 8-5, subnote 2 This subtext is referring to the "attacker is invisible" entry on the table. It also states on table 8-6 subscript 1 that a blinded defender also looses any Dexterity to AC. Hide prevents your opponant(s) from seeing you, rendering you effectively invisible. Remember, you cannot hide while being watched without either bluffing to provide a distraction, or having a special ability that says you can. You can immediatly make a hide check after attacking with a ranged weapon, at a -20 penalty. If you show him the above pages in the book, and then ask him if an opponant you hide from can see you, it should be convincing. thanks for the help hopefullly this is enough convincing.... he told me something about the fact other might see me but if they miss their spot checks it shouldnt matter and plus to talk is a free action that they can only make on their turn i think but even if they point it out it would be like an aid other check to spot i think... but thanks for all ur help. (worse comes to worse and he doesnt like me id do receless things till i die and then pull out my ranger back up character
timenight113 05-22-06, 01:21 PM	ok now he says that fireing into mellee makes it where i cant sneak attack... they should only give me a -4 (ranged sneak attack.)
hmmmm 05-22-06, 02:26 PM	Has he read the rules?
ressurrector 05-22-06, 02:48 PM	Tell him to either stop castrating your rogue with HOUSERULES or let you rebuild as a class that dosen't have its balls ripped off. Nothing he's doing is via the rules as written, the rules as clarified by Wizards, or the general understanding of those rules. Point him to this topic, and the many other "sneak attack" topics on these boards.
hmmmm 05-22-06, 03:51 PM	Show him what it says in the PHB.