Hit Dice, ECL, and ability increases [Archive] - Wizards Community

Hit Dice, ECL, and ability increases [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JadeSpider9643
03-18-05, 04:02 PM Does a character with 4 racial levels and a +4 LA and an ECL of 9 (1 class level) get any ability score increases? (the racial ability information gives skills and feats for the 4 racial levels, but no ability increases) And would it be just 1 for the 4 racial levels? or 2 for the total ECL?
SALDAR
03-18-05, 04:15 PM Level Adjustment only applies with regards to the total experience points needed per level. Feats and ability increases are awarded for total Hit Dice, in the above case only 5 (4 racial and 1 class), the +4 LA doesn't count. Skill points are awarded when you gain a level, in the above case for each of your racial HD and your class HD, LA does not apply to skill points either.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-18-05, 11:50 PM Yes. Just one.
JadeSpider9643
03-19-05, 12:54 AM well, it's 1 more than I was gonna give myself :)
JadeSpider9643
03-20-05, 12:03 AM actually I got another question...same basic concept, cept feats this time. The race description says "the 4 levels of monstrous humanoid give you 2 feats", I originally took this to mean 1 for a new character and one for 3rd level...or is that assuming too much? do I get the 2 feats for race and 1 more for 3rd level?
EarthTremor
03-20-05, 12:13 AM No, your original assumption is correct. Unless a monster description specifically lists a feat as being a bonus feat, it only gets those it's Hit Dice would allow.

Basically, compare your total Hit Dice + Class levels to the Level-based Abilities table near the front of the PHB; that's how many feats and ability score increases your character should have (not including any bonus feats, of course).
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-20-05, 12:17 AM When they say 2 feats like that, they are including the one that all level 1 characters get. You only get 1 feat from HD (at HD #3) with a 4 HD monster.
PlutoniumKnight
03-20-05, 01:30 AM You get (most) level depending stuff depends on your hit dice, ability increases, feats, skill point max ranks. So on and so forth.
Nom
03-20-05, 06:37 AM When they say 2 feats like that, they are including the one that all level 1 characters get. You only get 1 feat from HD (at HD #3) with a 4 HD monster.You have the right idea, but technically you are wrong. All creatures get a feat for their 1st HD, and all creatures get a feat for their 3rd, 6th, 9th, ... HD. And all creatures get an ability score increase for their 4th, 8th, ... HD. Specific rules may grant extra feats or increases (or even negate them, but I don't know of any such rules).

Note that "monsters" with > 4 native HD are considered to have the ability increases already factored in.

From a level adjustment perspective, note that all these rules apply to "character level" or "hit dice", never to "effective character level". A LA is purely an XP handicap - the virtual levels granted by LA have no mechanical effect (but are there to offset in-game effects not tied to HD).
Vatras
03-20-05, 06:42 AM You dont get an increase at all.
The creature has already the increase for the 4th HD in the stats, and you never get an increase for the LA, which only displays how much the abilities of the creature are worth.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JadeSpider9643 03-18-05, 04:02 PM	Does a character with 4 racial levels and a +4 LA and an ECL of 9 (1 class level) get any ability score increases? (the racial ability information gives skills and feats for the 4 racial levels, but no ability increases) And would it be just 1 for the 4 racial levels? or 2 for the total ECL?
SALDAR 03-18-05, 04:15 PM	Level Adjustment only applies with regards to the total experience points needed per level. Feats and ability increases are awarded for total Hit Dice, in the above case only 5 (4 racial and 1 class), the +4 LA doesn't count. Skill points are awarded when you gain a level, in the above case for each of your racial HD and your class HD, LA does not apply to skill points either.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-18-05, 11:50 PM	Yes. Just one.
JadeSpider9643 03-19-05, 12:54 AM	well, it's 1 more than I was gonna give myself :)
JadeSpider9643 03-20-05, 12:03 AM	actually I got another question...same basic concept, cept feats this time. The race description says "the 4 levels of monstrous humanoid give you 2 feats", I originally took this to mean 1 for a new character and one for 3rd level...or is that assuming too much? do I get the 2 feats for race and 1 more for 3rd level?
EarthTremor 03-20-05, 12:13 AM	No, your original assumption is correct. Unless a monster description specifically lists a feat as being a bonus feat, it only gets those it's Hit Dice would allow. Basically, compare your total Hit Dice + Class levels to the Level-based Abilities table near the front of the PHB; that's how many feats and ability score increases your character should have (not including any bonus feats, of course).
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-20-05, 12:17 AM	When they say 2 feats like that, they are including the one that all level 1 characters get. You only get 1 feat from HD (at HD #3) with a 4 HD monster.
PlutoniumKnight 03-20-05, 01:30 AM	You get (most) level depending stuff depends on your hit dice, ability increases, feats, skill point max ranks. So on and so forth.
Nom 03-20-05, 06:37 AM	When they say 2 feats like that, they are including the one that all level 1 characters get. You only get 1 feat from HD (at HD #3) with a 4 HD monster.You have the right idea, but technically you are wrong. All creatures get a feat for their 1st HD, and all creatures get a feat for their 3rd, 6th, 9th, ... HD. And all creatures get an ability score increase for their 4th, 8th, ... HD. Specific rules may grant extra feats or increases (or even negate them, but I don't know of any such rules). Note that "monsters" with > 4 native HD are considered to have the ability increases already factored in. From a level adjustment perspective, note that all these rules apply to "character level" or "hit dice", never to "effective character level". A LA is purely an XP handicap - the virtual levels granted by LA have no mechanical effect (but are there to offset in-game effects not tied to HD).
Vatras 03-20-05, 06:42 AM	You dont get an increase at all. The creature has already the increase for the 4th HD in the stats, and you never get an increase for the LA, which only displays how much the abilities of the creature are worth.