Hmm Multiple Attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Hmm Multiple Attacks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Psychoticpsymon
05-14-06, 05:58 PM I see alot of things about multiple attacks at higher levels and I saw a character sheet that confused me, so might I ask you all a question of painfully noobish proportions?

I don't know when you start getting extra attacks? I thought it was level based, but now I begin to wonder. I saw a character sheet that got -5 -10 -15 -20 in designated extra attack spots. Could you make multiple attacks at any level, just at ridiculous penalties? How does multiple attacks a la two handed weapons go with multiple attacks?

This is driving me crazy. Stoopit character sheet.
TwiddleStootch
05-14-06, 07:16 PM you gain extra attacks as you level, or by duel wielding.
you gain extra a new attack when your BAB reachs 6, 11 and 16 and so on into epic
Tuah
05-14-06, 07:50 PM This gave me trouble, too. :D

Basically, from Base Attack Bonus +0 to +5, you get one attack maximum. This is a standard action.

From +6 to +10 (written as +6/+1 to +10/+5), you may choose to make a second attack for a full-round action instead of a standard (which again, a single attack is a standard action). For example: For a character with +7/+2 the first attack in a full-round attack gets a +7, and the second gets a +2.

After that, you just keep increasing the amount of attacks you get for a full-round attack every five levels. (Note: You still may make a 5-foot-step during this full-round-action)
Another example: A 17th level fighter would have a BAB of +17/+12/+7/+2. For a standard action, he can attack once with a +17. For a full-round-action, he can attack once with +17, a second time with +12, and may also make a third with +7, and may also make a fourth with +2.

Unearthed Arcana gives a good multiclass flexability to BAB. If you have a wizard5/rogue2, you would only get a +3 BAB. With UA's addition, a poor BAB goes up by 1/2 every level, an Average goes up by 3/4 every level, and a good goes up by 1 every level.
Using this, you would instead get 4 3/4 (counts as 4) because you would get 2 1/2 from your 5 wizard levels, and 2 1/4 from your rogue levels.

Hope that helps! ;)
Psychoticpsymon
05-14-06, 08:06 PM It does, however, how does dual-wielding work? Would a 17nth level fighter with dual wield make 8 attacks if he would take the penalties? Or would you do the math for the offhand and give an extra at every +6? Or none at all, is it only 1 more attack? And how about throwing weapons?
Tuah
05-14-06, 08:17 PM Can't help you there, sorry. I'm using a 3.0 PHB. I can tell you though, that with no feat, or with the Two Weapon Fighting feat, you get only one attack with that weapon. With Improved TWF, you get one extra attack for a full-round attack. With Greater TWF, you get another extra attack.

There are also some more feats to look into; like Dual Strike (strike with both weapons once for a standard action), Two-Sword Style (bonuses to AC), Two-Weapon Defense (more bonuses to AC), and an epic feat which grants yet ANOTHER attack with the offhand weapon (only after you have a +16 or higher BAB).

A good offhand weapon to look into is the broadblade shortsword (complete adventurer) (if magic is avaliable, a defending enhancement, too).

Also: Ranged weapons: I have no clue. I don't have any idea how you're supposed to apply multiple attacks to them without special feats.
Nom
05-15-06, 10:02 AM Note: all this applies to full attacks only.

Manufactured weapons, standard attack sequence:

1 attack at full BAB.
If BAB >= 6, 1 attack at BAB - 5.
If BAB >= 11, 1 attack at BAB - 10.
If BAB >= 16, 1 attack at BAB - 15.
These are called incremental attacks.

Several effects can give bonus attacks.
haste: 1 extra attack at full BAB.
Flurry of blows (Mnk1-4): extra attack at full BAB, -2 to all attacks
Flurry of blows (Mnk5-8): extra attack at full BAB, -1 to all attacks
Flurry of blows (Mnk9-10): extra attack at full BAB
Flurry of blows (Mnk11+): 2 extra attacks at full BAB
Rapid Shot: extra ranged attack at full BAB, -2 to all attacks
Two weapon fighting: off hand weapon grants extra attack at full BAB, penalty varies
Improved TWF: off hand weapon grants (2nd) extra attack at -5 BAB
Greater TWF: off hand weapon grants (3rd) extra attack at -10 BAB

Include all that apply. For example, a 6th level fighter with Rapid Shot and Haste gets 4 attacks, with base attack bonuses of +6 (normal)/+6 (haste)/+6 (rapid shot)/+1 (incremental). Rapid shot applies a global -2 in addition to any other bonuses or penalties.
Witch
05-15-06, 10:05 AM Confirming Nom - he's correct.
Aldarionn
05-15-06, 10:19 AM For a Fighter his Base Attack Bonus is as follows:

Level 1: +1
Level 2: +2
Level 3: +3
Level 4: +4
Level 5: +5
Leve 6: +6/+1
Level 7: +7/+2
Level 8: +8/+3
Level 9: +9/+4
Level 10: +10/+5
Level 11: +11/+6/+1
Level 12: +12/+7/+2
Level 13: +13/+8/+3
Level 14: +14/+9/+4
Level 15: +15/+10/+5
Level 16: +16/+11/+6/+1
Level 17: +17/+12/+7/+2
Level 18: +18/+13/+8/+3
Level 19: +19/+14/+9/+4
Level 20: +20/+15/+10/+5

It's impossible for you to get more attacks than 4 with any single hand without haste of some sort, or some sepcific feats/abilities that allow you to do so. However, you may take the dual wielding feats. The feats are Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, and Greater Two Weapon Fighting. Normally, if you fight with two weapons, you suffer a -4 on all attacks and may only make one attack with your offhand, however with the Two Weapon Fighting feats, you only suffer a -2 to all attacks. With Improved Two Weapon Fighting, you gain an extra attack with your offhand at a further -5 (in addition to the -2 for wielding two weapons), and with Greater Two Weapon Fighting you gain a 3rd attack (at a total of -12). For example:

A 20th level fighter with Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon FIghting, and Greater Two Weapon Fighting, would have the following base attack:

Primary hand:
+18/+13/+8/+3

Offhand:
+18/+13/+8

He would then add his streingth modifier to each attack, along with the enhancement bonus of his weapon, and any feats (such as Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus), and possibly other bonuses to attack. For example:

Take a 20th level fighter using a pair of +5 shortswords that has a Streingth of 30 (+10 modifier) and all of the Two Weapon Fighting feats. In addition, he has Weapon Focus (Shortsword) and Greater Wepaon Focus (Shortsword), giving him a further +4 to attack. His total attack bonus would be as follows:

Primary:
+37/+32/+27/+22

Offhand:
+37/+32/+27

Hope that helps.

Aldarionn
Bulletproof_Condom
05-15-06, 12:22 PM I don't think it's been stated yet, so I may as well.

You can only make multiple attacks when using the Full Attack action (which is a full-round action). If you take any movement during the round beyond a 5-ft. step, you can make only a single attack, as a standard action.

You gain iterative attacks when your lowest BAB - 5 is still greater than 0.
So if you have a BAB of +12, 12 - 5 = 7 (2nd attack), 7 - 5 = 2 (3rd attack) 2 - 5 = -3 (less than 0, no 4th attack). Thus a character with a BAB of +12 can make three attacks with a single weapon at +12/+7/+2.

You gain iterative attacks based on your total BAB, not based on the BAB of your individual classes. A multiclass character with four levels of fighter, four levels of wizard, and four levels of rogue would have a total BAB of +9, which would grant him a second attack at +4, even though none of those classes could possibly have a second iterative attack at 4th level.

I may as well trot this out again.
Main Off Reason Solution
+0 -4 not proficient with off hand Two-Weapon Fighting feat
-2 -2 not trained to fight with Two-Weapon Fighting feat
two weapons at once
-2 -2 off-hand weapon is not light Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting feat
OR weild light weapon in off hand
-2 -2 fighting with two weapons is 5 levels of Tempest
very, very difficult
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-6 -10 TOTAL TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING PENALTIESWhen fighting with two weapons, you suffer all applicable TWF penalties on all of your attacks. So if a 20th-level fighter with none of the feats picks up a second longsword, then (counting only BAB and these penalties) he has five attacks; +14/+9/+4/-1 with his primary hand, and +10 with his off hand.

If a 4th-level fighter/16th-level monk with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (and all the preceding feats of course) and Rapid Shot and Quick Draw was to use his full attack to throw as many shuriken as possible, he would attack at +12/+12/+12/+12/+7/+2/-3 and +12/+7/+2 (4 attacks from BAB, 2 attacks from flurry, 1 attack from Rapid Shot, plus 3 off-hand attacks from Greater Two-Weapon Fighting).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Psychoticpsymon 05-14-06, 05:58 PM	I see alot of things about multiple attacks at higher levels and I saw a character sheet that confused me, so might I ask you all a question of painfully noobish proportions? I don't know when you start getting extra attacks? I thought it was level based, but now I begin to wonder. I saw a character sheet that got -5 -10 -15 -20 in designated extra attack spots. Could you make multiple attacks at any level, just at ridiculous penalties? How does multiple attacks a la two handed weapons go with multiple attacks? This is driving me crazy. Stoopit character sheet.
TwiddleStootch 05-14-06, 07:16 PM	you gain extra attacks as you level, or by duel wielding. you gain extra a new attack when your BAB reachs 6, 11 and 16 and so on into epic
Tuah 05-14-06, 07:50 PM	This gave me trouble, too. :D Basically, from Base Attack Bonus +0 to +5, you get one attack maximum. This is a standard action. From +6 to +10 (written as +6/+1 to +10/+5), you may choose to make a second attack for a full-round action instead of a standard (which again, a single attack is a standard action). For example: For a character with +7/+2 the first attack in a full-round attack gets a +7, and the second gets a +2. After that, you just keep increasing the amount of attacks you get for a full-round attack every five levels. (Note: You still may make a 5-foot-step during this full-round-action) Another example: A 17th level fighter would have a BAB of +17/+12/+7/+2. For a standard action, he can attack once with a +17. For a full-round-action, he can attack once with +17, a second time with +12, and may also make a third with +7, and may also make a fourth with +2. Unearthed Arcana gives a good multiclass flexability to BAB. If you have a wizard5/rogue2, you would only get a +3 BAB. With UA's addition, a poor BAB goes up by 1/2 every level, an Average goes up by 3/4 every level, and a good goes up by 1 every level. Using this, you would instead get 4 3/4 (counts as 4) because you would get 2 1/2 from your 5 wizard levels, and 2 1/4 from your rogue levels. Hope that helps! ;)
Psychoticpsymon 05-14-06, 08:06 PM	It does, however, how does dual-wielding work? Would a 17nth level fighter with dual wield make 8 attacks if he would take the penalties? Or would you do the math for the offhand and give an extra at every +6? Or none at all, is it only 1 more attack? And how about throwing weapons?
Tuah 05-14-06, 08:17 PM	Can't help you there, sorry. I'm using a 3.0 PHB. I can tell you though, that with no feat, or with the Two Weapon Fighting feat, you get only one attack with that weapon. With Improved TWF, you get one extra attack for a full-round attack. With Greater TWF, you get another extra attack. There are also some more feats to look into; like Dual Strike (strike with both weapons once for a standard action), Two-Sword Style (bonuses to AC), Two-Weapon Defense (more bonuses to AC), and an epic feat which grants yet ANOTHER attack with the offhand weapon (only after you have a +16 or higher BAB). A good offhand weapon to look into is the broadblade shortsword (complete adventurer) (if magic is avaliable, a defending enhancement, too). Also: Ranged weapons: I have no clue. I don't have any idea how you're supposed to apply multiple attacks to them without special feats.
Nom 05-15-06, 10:02 AM	Note: all this applies to full attacks only. Manufactured weapons, standard attack sequence: 1 attack at full BAB. If BAB >= 6, 1 attack at BAB - 5. If BAB >= 11, 1 attack at BAB - 10. If BAB >= 16, 1 attack at BAB - 15. These are called incremental attacks. Several effects can give bonus attacks. haste: 1 extra attack at full BAB. Flurry of blows (Mnk1-4): extra attack at full BAB, -2 to all attacks Flurry of blows (Mnk5-8): extra attack at full BAB, -1 to all attacks Flurry of blows (Mnk9-10): extra attack at full BAB Flurry of blows (Mnk11+): 2 extra attacks at full BAB Rapid Shot: extra ranged attack at full BAB, -2 to all attacks Two weapon fighting: off hand weapon grants extra attack at full BAB, penalty varies Improved TWF: off hand weapon grants (2nd) extra attack at -5 BAB Greater TWF: off hand weapon grants (3rd) extra attack at -10 BAB Include all that apply. For example, a 6th level fighter with Rapid Shot and Haste gets 4 attacks, with base attack bonuses of +6 (normal)/+6 (haste)/+6 (rapid shot)/+1 (incremental). Rapid shot applies a global -2 in addition to any other bonuses or penalties.
Witch 05-15-06, 10:05 AM	Confirming Nom - he's correct.
Aldarionn 05-15-06, 10:19 AM	For a Fighter his Base Attack Bonus is as follows: Level 1: +1 Level 2: +2 Level 3: +3 Level 4: +4 Level 5: +5 Leve 6: +6/+1 Level 7: +7/+2 Level 8: +8/+3 Level 9: +9/+4 Level 10: +10/+5 Level 11: +11/+6/+1 Level 12: +12/+7/+2 Level 13: +13/+8/+3 Level 14: +14/+9/+4 Level 15: +15/+10/+5 Level 16: +16/+11/+6/+1 Level 17: +17/+12/+7/+2 Level 18: +18/+13/+8/+3 Level 19: +19/+14/+9/+4 Level 20: +20/+15/+10/+5 It's impossible for you to get more attacks than 4 with any single hand without haste of some sort, or some sepcific feats/abilities that allow you to do so. However, you may take the dual wielding feats. The feats are Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, and Greater Two Weapon Fighting. Normally, if you fight with two weapons, you suffer a -4 on all attacks and may only make one attack with your offhand, however with the Two Weapon Fighting feats, you only suffer a -2 to all attacks. With Improved Two Weapon Fighting, you gain an extra attack with your offhand at a further -5 (in addition to the -2 for wielding two weapons), and with Greater Two Weapon Fighting you gain a 3rd attack (at a total of -12). For example: A 20th level fighter with Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon FIghting, and Greater Two Weapon Fighting, would have the following base attack: Primary hand: +18/+13/+8/+3 Offhand: +18/+13/+8 He would then add his streingth modifier to each attack, along with the enhancement bonus of his weapon, and any feats (such as Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus), and possibly other bonuses to attack. For example: Take a 20th level fighter using a pair of +5 shortswords that has a Streingth of 30 (+10 modifier) and all of the Two Weapon Fighting feats. In addition, he has Weapon Focus (Shortsword) and Greater Wepaon Focus (Shortsword), giving him a further +4 to attack. His total attack bonus would be as follows: Primary: +37/+32/+27/+22 Offhand: +37/+32/+27 Hope that helps. Aldarionn
Bulletproof_Condom 05-15-06, 12:22 PM	I don't think it's been stated yet, so I may as well. You can only make multiple attacks when using the Full Attack action (which is a full-round action). If you take any movement during the round beyond a 5-ft. step, you can make only a single attack, as a standard action. You gain iterative attacks when your lowest BAB - 5 is still greater than 0. So if you have a BAB of +12, 12 - 5 = 7 (2nd attack), 7 - 5 = 2 (3rd attack) 2 - 5 = -3 (less than 0, no 4th attack). Thus a character with a BAB of +12 can make three attacks with a single weapon at +12/+7/+2. You gain iterative attacks based on your total BAB, not based on the BAB of your individual classes. A multiclass character with four levels of fighter, four levels of wizard, and four levels of rogue would have a total BAB of +9, which would grant him a second attack at +4, even though none of those classes could possibly have a second iterative attack at 4th level. I may as well trot this out again. Main Off Reason Solution +0 -4 not proficient with off hand Two-Weapon Fighting feat -2 -2 not trained to fight with Two-Weapon Fighting feat two weapons at once -2 -2 off-hand weapon is not light Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting feat OR weild light weapon in off hand -2 -2 fighting with two weapons is 5 levels of Tempest very, very difficult -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -6 -10 TOTAL TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING PENALTIESWhen fighting with two weapons, you suffer all applicable TWF penalties on all of your attacks. So if a 20th-level fighter with none of the feats picks up a second longsword, then (counting only BAB and these penalties) he has five attacks; +14/+9/+4/-1 with his primary hand, and +10 with his off hand. If a 4th-level fighter/16th-level monk with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (and all the preceding feats of course) and Rapid Shot and Quick Draw was to use his full attack to throw as many shuriken as possible, he would attack at +12/+12/+12/+12/+7/+2/-3 and +12/+7/+2 (4 attacks from BAB, 2 attacks from flurry, 1 attack from Rapid Shot, plus 3 off-hand attacks from Greater Two-Weapon Fighting).