House rule suggestions for rolling ability scores? [Archive] - Wizards Community

House rule suggestions for rolling ability scores? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
capone888
08-22-04, 10:26 PM Our group is completely new to tabletop RPG (both players and DM). The Player's Handbook says in order to determine ability scores, you should roll 4d6, subtract the lowest dice, and add the three remaining dice to find out one of the six ability scores. Our group finds this method very unsatisfying. We have four player characters in our group and only one of them ended up with an 18 in any single ability.
Can anyone provide some alternative house rules they use to assign ability scores. We want to stick with rolling our ability scores, and not distributing them with a point system. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Michael
Cymraegmorgan
08-22-04, 10:55 PM Try rolling 3d6, drop the lowest die, then add six to the result. This will give you a minimum of 8 in every score. Give each player the chance to reroll one die out of the whole lot.

My personal opinion on the point buy system is that it creates mediocre cookie cutter characters.

Have the players give the above system a chance. You could also go with the 5d6, drop the lowest two dice.

DnD is a game of heroics, so there is no reason your characters should be "average."
Kilsek of Sheverash
08-22-04, 10:59 PM I hear you... we played D&D 2e for a long time, and in 3.x, rolling dice for ability scores, even at 4d6 is okay, but the way the game system is so much more consistent and balanced, point buy or point pool methods just make more sense, especially when it's important that each character be a solid contributor to the party's success - it starts with stats that are fair across the board for all party members.

If you're going to roll dice, there's going to be some inequities between characters. If you're okay with that, try the 5d6 method instead in the DMG. That one's okay, but you'll never see low scores and get a lot of average and just above average scores.

An alternative might be, something I just thought of, is use 4d6 arranged as desired, and then have the player choose an ability score and roll and add 1d4 or 1d4+1 to it. This gives you "a shot at an 18" which sounds like something your play group is looking for.
Kitt-su
08-22-04, 11:16 PM We always do, 4d6 reroll 1s and drop the lowest. The DM rerolls your lowest score.
Hero of Sshamath
08-22-04, 11:51 PM I once DM'ed a group that wanted to just roll 12+2d6, drop the lowest roll...I wouldn't use this method...it's to prone to lending itself to powergamers and munchkins....but hey, they TRIED to convince me it was okay...

I also disagree with the "point pool" system where you start with a common number in all stats say...10 and then have a pool of "X" number of points to spend increasing them...it has too much a "Diablo II or EverQuest" feel to it...If I wanted to play videogames...I'd be doing that....

Also, keep in mind that every 4th lvl you can add a +1 to any stat...

I personally use the 4d6 drop the lowest roll...but, I don't hand out re-rolls unless a PC's total ability modifiers add up to less than +2....DnD is not a game of heros.....It's a game that MAKES heros...everyone has to start somewhere.

Some of my favorite PC's had low stats....It can be REALLY fun to play a PC with a 10 intelligence and an 18 strength...:smirk:...o0( Hulk MAD, HULK SMASH!!!!)
Mitchell
08-23-04, 12:25 AM 1) If your players don't mind extremes, let them roll 18d6 and pick the sets from those dice. This will let them make a medium all around character, or a character with very high and very low scores. If they roll three of each number, they would be able to have an 18. 15, 12, 9, 6, and 3. You could include more dice so that they would have some throwaway numbers, but the more dice you give them, the more likely they are to gravitate towards the high end on numbers.

2) Any number + dice. This could be a 6+2d6, a 4+1d6+1d8, a 10+1d8, a 12+1d6, whatever. Just realize that the fewer dice involved, the more likely anyone is to be at the high or low extreme on the roll, and the larger the base, the better they are. (10+1d8= 12.5% chance of any number 11 through 18, 12+1d6= 16.666 chance of any number 13 through 18).

3) Let them roll 4d6 in multiple sets, maybe 5 or 10. After they roll their sets, they can pick one to keep.

4) Just like they are, but they replace their highest roll with 18. It may sound simple, but if anything less than 18 is unsatisfactory, why play around? Let them have their 18 and whatever else they end up with. If they don't like this, then let them replace their lowest set, or their third highest set, it doesn't matter. Alternately, you could let them roll five times and just add an 18 to the set.

You are the one who's going to have to provide challenges, so whatever you think works.
wolf_mage
08-23-04, 02:18 AM Originally posted by Hero of Sshamath
Some of my favorite PC's had low stats....It can be REALLY fun to play a PC with a 10 intelligence and an 18 strength...:smirk:...o0( Hulk MAD, HULK SMASH!!!!)
Psst — 10 Intelligence means average intelligence. Not stupid. The quote you gave sounds like, say, Int 4...
jasper
08-23-04, 09:04 AM In the early eighties, my group occasionally did
10 +d8
12 +d6
But why does everone want 18 in their stats?
Nom
08-23-04, 09:06 AM Originally posted by capone888
Our group is completely new to tabletop RPG (both players and DM). The Player's Handbook says in order to determine ability scores, you should roll 4d6, subtract the lowest dice, and add the three remaining dice to find out one of the six ability scores. Our group finds this method very unsatisfying. We have four player characters in our group and only one of them ended up with an 18 in any single ability.Considering that the chance of rolling an 18 is about 1 per 4 sets of stats, one 18 for 4 players is about what you should expect.

Something very important to understand:

10-11: average
12: above average
14: pretty good
16: impressive
18: remarkable

On a standard (best 3 of 4)d6, you've got a pretty good character if you've one score 16+ and a few in the 12-14 range. You don't need a 17 or 18 to have a decent character.
Can anyone provide some alternative house rules they use to assign ability scores. We want to stick with rolling our ability scores, and not distributing them with a point system. Any suggestions?First, I assume you've checked out 169-170 of the 3.5 DMG? If not, do so. Though for your first game (considering you're new to table-top RPGs in general) I strongly recommend either standard rolling or "elite array" (option 3 in DMG). Don't mess with the rules until you've actually given them a fair try.

Failing that, the most interesting idea I've seen is "ability score draft". Everyone rolls up 6 scores (using (best 3 of 4)d6) in order (ie no rearranging), with the option to reroll any "hopeless" characters (PH 3.5 pg 8). Then, each set of scores (eg 4 scores for Str, 4 for Dex, ...) is laid out in a table. Players decide randomly who picks first. The first player may pick any score, crossing it off the table and assigning it to his/her char (eg they might choose the 17 Str). The next player chooses any other score (eg wanting a wizard chooses the 16 Int), and so on. Reverse direction each pass of 4, until after 6 passes all scores are chosen.
Orion959
08-23-04, 12:13 PM Hello there.

In the campaign I am currently a part of, the DM has stated that it would be a 'monty haul' type of campaign, with combat being a major part of it, and most things AT LEAST a CR of +3 or more above us. We are all supposed to be 'major players' in a war that just ended (leaders of our people, clan heads, etc.) and we started at 5th level.

As such, the DM used the following system:

4d6, reroll any ones, THEN drop lowest die.

Also, if by some miracle you rolled 4 6's, you got a 24 in that stat.

There are 8 of us as players, and all of us got good ability scores, but no one is walking around with all 16's+, and no one got the 24.

This is a heroic campaign, and the DM thinks we should have heroic stats.

I have played chars with high stats, and low stats, and enjoyed both.

Find out the kind of campaign it will be, and try house-ruling from there.
danielinthewolvesden
08-23-04, 01:49 PM Originally posted by Orion959

As such, the DM used the following system:

4d6, reroll any ones, THEN drop lowest die.

This is a very reasonable system for making sure no PC will be stuck with a real cruddy number.

Of course- you guys could also do "point buy". I suggest a 32 point buy. I also currently run a combo system- a 30 pt "buy" with one roll of a D6- that adds +1 to the indicated ability. (Roll a 6, add +1 to CHA, etc)

But a 16 is just fine for a starting character. By 8th level, that's an 18, with a +2 item, that's a 20.

A PC with a 16, a couple of 14's, a 13, a 12, and one "dump stat" is just fine.
Thorak
08-23-04, 01:57 PM To reiterate what Nom said, you don't need an 18 to have a good character. And a 10 is an average score. If you want a low intelligence, try playing with a 4 or 6.

Being heroic is one thing, but having an average of 12 means your character is above average. And above average is perfectly fine. If you need an 18 to make a playable character, then IMHO you need to work on your min/max ability. Statistics aren't everything, and you can make a perfectly playable character with low scores. One of the most amusing characters I had recently was a barbarian/wizard whose highest stat was a 14. His lowest was an 11, so while nothing was great, nothing was bad either. It was amusing watching him out-fight the combat guys in the group with 18 strength. Because I chose a reach weapon, and fought tactically.

My biggest problem with point-buy is that it doesn't allow for low stats. An 8 is low-average, not low. If I want a stupid barbarian, I want a 6 int. If he's a coarse, ugly beast, I want a 6 or lower Cha too.
MGuild917
08-23-04, 06:58 PM our group uses comliness so the numbers are a bit different but if you are having problems with scores from rolls(I personally don't mind a highest score being 14 but is just me) I have also had good luck running with giving the players 10 to 17 and 11 to 18 for scores and allowing them to assign to fit their char concept. The nonpower players will prob put the 17/18 on the main score then arrabge the others in a way that may not make sense to you until you see how the char is played
Lia Nightdemon
08-23-04, 07:04 PM try giving them a fixed score set

like
18
16
14
10
11
8

that let them choose where they go

if you think those are too high try something else
Nom
08-24-04, 01:51 AM Originally posted by Thorak
My biggest problem with point-buy is that it doesn't allow for low stats. An 8 is low-average, not low. If I want a stupid barbarian, I want a 6 int. If he's a coarse, ugly beast, I want a 6 or lower Cha too.Well, the -2 racial modifier for half orcs will happily give you 6 Int and 6 Cha from point buy. ;)
starfire311
08-24-04, 08:54 AM 1st off... Point Buy isnt what everyone likes, it is the ability to gaurantee balance within the group. All the PCs should start on even ground, to many times I have seen one player get barely playable stats like 8, 10, 10, 12, 12, 13 while another player in the group has outstanding stats like 18, 16, 15, 15, 14, 13... the second character is basically have a few ECLs over the first charcter... just because he rolled dice better.

The system that I use most often is Point Buy 28-32 points.

The system I used in my last game was slightly different. We had 5 players and me the DM, I had everyone including me roll 3d6, the rolls were as follows 14, 13, 10, 9, 9, 6 I then had everyone roll 1d3, and I totalled all the rolls and it came out to 13.... that meant that everyone had 13 points to distribute among the stats(max 18 in anyone stat, no 27 strength). This made slightly powerful characters but, it allowed the characters to roll dice, and it allowed me to make sure the party was balanced, and it also removed the cookie cutter feeling.
Rimmy
08-24-04, 12:22 PM This is just a cut and past from the 101 ways to roll your stats in the Player's Handbook forum at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=297935 so if you've already read it don't smack me. Fair warning. ;)

I have my players roll 4d6 and discard the lowest... 36 times.

They arrange them in a 6x6 grid (in order, no grouping the high ones to one side) and then finally choose a line of stats. Forward, backward, up, down, diagonal... whatever they like. They don't get to rearrange them.

No complaints thus far, as there are always (so far) a line or two of stats that give the player what they want. It takes some of the random out of it, but it ups the odds to get a decent monk or paladin.

My current players:

Ranger2: Str15, Dex15, Con14, Int14, Wis12, Cha11

This isn't the set I would have chosen, but it gave him the single best Dex bonus possible and he wanted to play a "stand at the back and shoot arrows" kind of Ranger. He's not a big spellcaster, and he doesn't care about the low Wisdom score. Seems happy.

Monk2: Str15, Dex15, Con13, Int12, Wis14, Cha14

Not a bad set of overall stats. Player is a bit insane, and was talking about starting with a level of Monk, then one of Bard, then one of Rogue, then one of Sorcerer, etc. I pointed out that he'd end up with an atrocious character like that. So then he wanted to go Monk1/Bardx. Turns out he basically wanted to be a cross between Mickey One-punch from Snatch and Johnny Depp's character from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Now he's decided to just be a Monk that plays guitar. He's my old DM. lol

Druid2: Str14, Dex13, Con14, Int17, Wis15, Cha10

Her first time playing. She read through the PHB and decided on a Druid from the start. She seems to enjoy her character, although she's a bit impatient to reach higher levels to get more of the "cool" powers that Druids get. Pretty solid character.

Rogue2: Str17, Dex15, Con12, Int14, Wis10, Cha10

With that strength, and no d10 fighter in the group, opted to burn his 1st level feat and take TWF. Wields a morningstar and short sword. Knocks guys down like you wouldn't believe. As the rest of the party waxes in combat prowess, he plans to ease back into a more "circle the combat, tumble in to flank, sneak attack to maximum advantage" approach. And ranged - saving up for a composite bow to take advantage of his strength.

Okay, so they're not minmaxers, but they all have fun. The crazed Monk has decided that he likes this rolling system way more than point buy. I guess something good DID come out of second edition, which is where I was introduced to it.

Sorry about the length of the post. I was feeling expansive. ;)
Drachasor
08-24-04, 01:43 PM You can adopt a moderate generation method (4d6 for instance, with rerolling 1s perhaps). After everything is rolled, line the numbers up and let the players modify them as follows:

You can increase a stat by 1, if you take 2 away from another stat.

You can only take away points from a particular stat once.

This usually allows people to get something close to what they want. They'll get some high scores (an 18 if they want and/or are lucky) and some low scores for adjustments. It also makes it so they can't min-max too much (such as dropping Charisma down to 4).

Though there are many fine suggestions here.

-Drachasor
Lycanthrope King
08-31-04, 12:59 AM My group likes the point buy 28, because, lets say Rob rolls, and his totals equal 50 or so (when adding the ability scores together) and then, lets say jason, when he rolls, gets 96.
I personally prefer rolling 4d6, 7 times, drop the lowest roll of each 4d6 and then drop the lowest 4d6.
Sae Cael Oanar
08-31-04, 10:38 AM we just started new characters, did the 4d6 thing, except you get one 18. it makes everyone good at what they are supposed to be. the wizard has 18 int, ranger (elf) has 20 dex. i other than that all the scores were around average, i think it will work out fine.
Draeconix
09-09-04, 03:07 AM I favor the following method:

Roll 4d6 7 times dropping the lowest die on each roll and totaling the rest. Then drop your lowest score of the 7 and use the other 6. It gives you the oppurtunity to get a better score but also maintains the diversity in scores needed to create an interesting character.

And by the way, the Hulk's stats would be more like Int 16, Str 20. He was a freaking geneticist people if ou follow the movie, but a scientist nonetheless if not.
General Dorsey
09-09-04, 04:46 AM The 1st Edition Unearthed Arcana had another way of rolling. Here is a how it worked:

This method can only be used to create human (in 3.5 I think it won't matter so much) player characters. It gives the player an opportunity to generate a character of a desired class (subject to the DM’s approval) and be assured that the ability scores for the character will meet the minimum requirements for the class in question.

After the player’s selection of a class is approved, he or she rolls a certain number of six-sided dice for each ability score to be generated, as indicated on the following table. The best three die rolls for each ability are added together to produce the score. (For example, a fighter’s strength is determined by rolling 9d6 and keeping the three highest results.)

Class Strength Dexterity Constitution Intelligence Wisdom Charisma
Barbarian 9 7 8 3 5 6
Cleric 7 5 8 4 9 6
Druid 7 5 6 4 8 8
Fighter 9 7 8 3 5 6
Monk 7 8 6 5 9 4
Paladin 7 3 6 5 8 9
Ranger 7 5 9 6 8 4
Rogue 6 9 7 5 3 4
Wizard 4 8 6 9 7 5

It looks like you would basically take 38d6 and divide the rolls up amongst the 6 stats. You cannot put less than 3 dice into one stat and no more than 9 dice. Simply take the best three of each set. I never used the method myself. I have been using the 4d6 reroll 1's drop the lowest since the mid 80's.

BTW, how does one create tables on these boards. I hate how my tables always turn out.
Darrett
09-09-04, 03:07 PM For anyone wanting high-powered campaigns, do point buy.

Otherwise, stick with the 4D6 - (Lowest Die) method.

Another option is to allow players to reroll all 1s.

Even the basic roll method of 4D6 - (Lowest Die) is a step up from what I've always played. In 2nd Edition AD&D we always did 3D6, assign scores, with no rerolls allowed. You play what you get. In a lot of ways, that method makes the game more fun since you're not always able to deal with every situation. Less pulp fiction, more reality.
Sphyre
09-09-04, 05:20 PM I've devised this method up for versatile random scores: Pointbuy Rolling Method It allows players to have a high chance of an 18 at the cost of others, or have a more regular stat aquisition method - player's choice with DM control.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
capone888 08-22-04, 10:26 PM	Our group is completely new to tabletop RPG (both players and DM). The Player's Handbook says in order to determine ability scores, you should roll 4d6, subtract the lowest dice, and add the three remaining dice to find out one of the six ability scores. Our group finds this method very unsatisfying. We have four player characters in our group and only one of them ended up with an 18 in any single ability. Can anyone provide some alternative house rules they use to assign ability scores. We want to stick with rolling our ability scores, and not distributing them with a point system. Any suggestions? Thanks, Michael
Cymraegmorgan 08-22-04, 10:55 PM	Try rolling 3d6, drop the lowest die, then add six to the result. This will give you a minimum of 8 in every score. Give each player the chance to reroll one die out of the whole lot. My personal opinion on the point buy system is that it creates mediocre cookie cutter characters. Have the players give the above system a chance. You could also go with the 5d6, drop the lowest two dice. DnD is a game of heroics, so there is no reason your characters should be "average."
Kilsek of Sheverash 08-22-04, 10:59 PM	I hear you... we played D&D 2e for a long time, and in 3.x, rolling dice for ability scores, even at 4d6 is okay, but the way the game system is so much more consistent and balanced, point buy or point pool methods just make more sense, especially when it's important that each character be a solid contributor to the party's success - it starts with stats that are fair across the board for all party members. If you're going to roll dice, there's going to be some inequities between characters. If you're okay with that, try the 5d6 method instead in the DMG. That one's okay, but you'll never see low scores and get a lot of average and just above average scores. An alternative might be, something I just thought of, is use 4d6 arranged as desired, and then have the player choose an ability score and roll and add 1d4 or 1d4+1 to it. This gives you "a shot at an 18" which sounds like something your play group is looking for.
Kitt-su 08-22-04, 11:16 PM	We always do, 4d6 reroll 1s and drop the lowest. The DM rerolls your lowest score.
Hero of Sshamath 08-22-04, 11:51 PM	I once DM'ed a group that wanted to just roll 12+2d6, drop the lowest roll...I wouldn't use this method...it's to prone to lending itself to powergamers and munchkins....but hey, they TRIED to convince me it was okay... I also disagree with the "point pool" system where you start with a common number in all stats say...10 and then have a pool of "X" number of points to spend increasing them...it has too much a "Diablo II or EverQuest" feel to it...If I wanted to play videogames...I'd be doing that.... Also, keep in mind that every 4th lvl you can add a +1 to any stat... I personally use the 4d6 drop the lowest roll...but, I don't hand out re-rolls unless a PC's total ability modifiers add up to less than +2....DnD is not a game of heros.....It's a game that MAKES heros...everyone has to start somewhere. Some of my favorite PC's had low stats....It can be REALLY fun to play a PC with a 10 intelligence and an 18 strength...:smirk:...o0( Hulk MAD, HULK SMASH!!!!)
Mitchell 08-23-04, 12:25 AM	1) If your players don't mind extremes, let them roll 18d6 and pick the sets from those dice. This will let them make a medium all around character, or a character with very high and very low scores. If they roll three of each number, they would be able to have an 18. 15, 12, 9, 6, and 3. You could include more dice so that they would have some throwaway numbers, but the more dice you give them, the more likely they are to gravitate towards the high end on numbers. 2) Any number + dice. This could be a 6+2d6, a 4+1d6+1d8, a 10+1d8, a 12+1d6, whatever. Just realize that the fewer dice involved, the more likely anyone is to be at the high or low extreme on the roll, and the larger the base, the better they are. (10+1d8= 12.5% chance of any number 11 through 18, 12+1d6= 16.666 chance of any number 13 through 18). 3) Let them roll 4d6 in multiple sets, maybe 5 or 10. After they roll their sets, they can pick one to keep. 4) Just like they are, but they replace their highest roll with 18. It may sound simple, but if anything less than 18 is unsatisfactory, why play around? Let them have their 18 and whatever else they end up with. If they don't like this, then let them replace their lowest set, or their third highest set, it doesn't matter. Alternately, you could let them roll five times and just add an 18 to the set. You are the one who's going to have to provide challenges, so whatever you think works.
wolf_mage 08-23-04, 02:18 AM	Originally posted by Hero of Sshamath Some of my favorite PC's had low stats....It can be REALLY fun to play a PC with a 10 intelligence and an 18 strength...:smirk:...o0( Hulk MAD, HULK SMASH!!!!) Psst — 10 Intelligence means average intelligence. Not stupid. The quote you gave sounds like, say, Int 4...
jasper 08-23-04, 09:04 AM	In the early eighties, my group occasionally did 10 +d8 12 +d6 But why does everone want 18 in their stats?
Nom 08-23-04, 09:06 AM	Originally posted by capone888 Our group is completely new to tabletop RPG (both players and DM). The Player's Handbook says in order to determine ability scores, you should roll 4d6, subtract the lowest dice, and add the three remaining dice to find out one of the six ability scores. Our group finds this method very unsatisfying. We have four player characters in our group and only one of them ended up with an 18 in any single ability.Considering that the chance of rolling an 18 is about 1 per 4 sets of stats, one 18 for 4 players is about what you should expect. Something very important to understand: 10-11: average 12: above average 14: pretty good 16: impressive 18: remarkable On a standard (best 3 of 4)d6, you've got a pretty good character if you've one score 16+ and a few in the 12-14 range. You don't need a 17 or 18 to have a decent character. Can anyone provide some alternative house rules they use to assign ability scores. We want to stick with rolling our ability scores, and not distributing them with a point system. Any suggestions?First, I assume you've checked out 169-170 of the 3.5 DMG? If not, do so. Though for your first game (considering you're new to table-top RPGs in general) I strongly recommend either standard rolling or "elite array" (option 3 in DMG). Don't mess with the rules until you've actually given them a fair try. Failing that, the most interesting idea I've seen is "ability score draft". Everyone rolls up 6 scores (using (best 3 of 4)d6) in order (ie no rearranging), with the option to reroll any "hopeless" characters (PH 3.5 pg 8). Then, each set of scores (eg 4 scores for Str, 4 for Dex, ...) is laid out in a table. Players decide randomly who picks first. The first player may pick any score, crossing it off the table and assigning it to his/her char (eg they might choose the 17 Str). The next player chooses any other score (eg wanting a wizard chooses the 16 Int), and so on. Reverse direction each pass of 4, until after 6 passes all scores are chosen.
Orion959 08-23-04, 12:13 PM	Hello there. In the campaign I am currently a part of, the DM has stated that it would be a 'monty haul' type of campaign, with combat being a major part of it, and most things AT LEAST a CR of +3 or more above us. We are all supposed to be 'major players' in a war that just ended (leaders of our people, clan heads, etc.) and we started at 5th level. As such, the DM used the following system: 4d6, reroll any ones, THEN drop lowest die. Also, if by some miracle you rolled 4 6's, you got a 24 in that stat. There are 8 of us as players, and all of us got good ability scores, but no one is walking around with all 16's+, and no one got the 24. This is a heroic campaign, and the DM thinks we should have heroic stats. I have played chars with high stats, and low stats, and enjoyed both. Find out the kind of campaign it will be, and try house-ruling from there.
danielinthewolvesden 08-23-04, 01:49 PM	Originally posted by Orion959 As such, the DM used the following system: 4d6, reroll any ones, THEN drop lowest die. This is a very reasonable system for making sure no PC will be stuck with a real cruddy number. Of course- you guys could also do "point buy". I suggest a 32 point buy. I also currently run a combo system- a 30 pt "buy" with one roll of a D6- that adds +1 to the indicated ability. (Roll a 6, add +1 to CHA, etc) But a 16 is just fine for a starting character. By 8th level, that's an 18, with a +2 item, that's a 20. A PC with a 16, a couple of 14's, a 13, a 12, and one "dump stat" is just fine.
Thorak 08-23-04, 01:57 PM	To reiterate what Nom said, you don't need an 18 to have a good character. And a 10 is an average score. If you want a low intelligence, try playing with a 4 or 6. Being heroic is one thing, but having an average of 12 means your character is above average. And above average is perfectly fine. If you need an 18 to make a playable character, then IMHO you need to work on your min/max ability. Statistics aren't everything, and you can make a perfectly playable character with low scores. One of the most amusing characters I had recently was a barbarian/wizard whose highest stat was a 14. His lowest was an 11, so while nothing was great, nothing was bad either. It was amusing watching him out-fight the combat guys in the group with 18 strength. Because I chose a reach weapon, and fought tactically. My biggest problem with point-buy is that it doesn't allow for low stats. An 8 is low-average, not low. If I want a stupid barbarian, I want a 6 int. If he's a coarse, ugly beast, I want a 6 or lower Cha too.
MGuild917 08-23-04, 06:58 PM	our group uses comliness so the numbers are a bit different but if you are having problems with scores from rolls(I personally don't mind a highest score being 14 but is just me) I have also had good luck running with giving the players 10 to 17 and 11 to 18 for scores and allowing them to assign to fit their char concept. The nonpower players will prob put the 17/18 on the main score then arrabge the others in a way that may not make sense to you until you see how the char is played
Lia Nightdemon 08-23-04, 07:04 PM	try giving them a fixed score set like 18 16 14 10 11 8 that let them choose where they go if you think those are too high try something else
Nom 08-24-04, 01:51 AM	Originally posted by Thorak My biggest problem with point-buy is that it doesn't allow for low stats. An 8 is low-average, not low. If I want a stupid barbarian, I want a 6 int. If he's a coarse, ugly beast, I want a 6 or lower Cha too.Well, the -2 racial modifier for half orcs will happily give you 6 Int and 6 Cha from point buy. ;)
starfire311 08-24-04, 08:54 AM	1st off... Point Buy isnt what everyone likes, it is the ability to gaurantee balance within the group. All the PCs should start on even ground, to many times I have seen one player get barely playable stats like 8, 10, 10, 12, 12, 13 while another player in the group has outstanding stats like 18, 16, 15, 15, 14, 13... the second character is basically have a few ECLs over the first charcter... just because he rolled dice better. The system that I use most often is Point Buy 28-32 points. The system I used in my last game was slightly different. We had 5 players and me the DM, I had everyone including me roll 3d6, the rolls were as follows 14, 13, 10, 9, 9, 6 I then had everyone roll 1d3, and I totalled all the rolls and it came out to 13.... that meant that everyone had 13 points to distribute among the stats(max 18 in anyone stat, no 27 strength). This made slightly powerful characters but, it allowed the characters to roll dice, and it allowed me to make sure the party was balanced, and it also removed the cookie cutter feeling.
Rimmy 08-24-04, 12:22 PM	This is just a cut and past from the 101 ways to roll your stats in the Player's Handbook forum at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=297935 so if you've already read it don't smack me. Fair warning. ;) I have my players roll 4d6 and discard the lowest... 36 times. They arrange them in a 6x6 grid (in order, no grouping the high ones to one side) and then finally choose a line of stats. Forward, backward, up, down, diagonal... whatever they like. They don't get to rearrange them. No complaints thus far, as there are always (so far) a line or two of stats that give the player what they want. It takes some of the random out of it, but it ups the odds to get a decent monk or paladin. My current players: Ranger2: Str15, Dex15, Con14, Int14, Wis12, Cha11 This isn't the set I would have chosen, but it gave him the single best Dex bonus possible and he wanted to play a "stand at the back and shoot arrows" kind of Ranger. He's not a big spellcaster, and he doesn't care about the low Wisdom score. Seems happy. Monk2: Str15, Dex15, Con13, Int12, Wis14, Cha14 Not a bad set of overall stats. Player is a bit insane, and was talking about starting with a level of Monk, then one of Bard, then one of Rogue, then one of Sorcerer, etc. I pointed out that he'd end up with an atrocious character like that. So then he wanted to go Monk1/Bardx. Turns out he basically wanted to be a cross between Mickey One-punch from Snatch and Johnny Depp's character from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Now he's decided to just be a Monk that plays guitar. He's my old DM. lol Druid2: Str14, Dex13, Con14, Int17, Wis15, Cha10 Her first time playing. She read through the PHB and decided on a Druid from the start. She seems to enjoy her character, although she's a bit impatient to reach higher levels to get more of the "cool" powers that Druids get. Pretty solid character. Rogue2: Str17, Dex15, Con12, Int14, Wis10, Cha10 With that strength, and no d10 fighter in the group, opted to burn his 1st level feat and take TWF. Wields a morningstar and short sword. Knocks guys down like you wouldn't believe. As the rest of the party waxes in combat prowess, he plans to ease back into a more "circle the combat, tumble in to flank, sneak attack to maximum advantage" approach. And ranged - saving up for a composite bow to take advantage of his strength. Okay, so they're not minmaxers, but they all have fun. The crazed Monk has decided that he likes this rolling system way more than point buy. I guess something good DID come out of second edition, which is where I was introduced to it. Sorry about the length of the post. I was feeling expansive. ;)
Drachasor 08-24-04, 01:43 PM	You can adopt a moderate generation method (4d6 for instance, with rerolling 1s perhaps). After everything is rolled, line the numbers up and let the players modify them as follows: You can increase a stat by 1, if you take 2 away from another stat. You can only take away points from a particular stat once. This usually allows people to get something close to what they want. They'll get some high scores (an 18 if they want and/or are lucky) and some low scores for adjustments. It also makes it so they can't min-max too much (such as dropping Charisma down to 4). Though there are many fine suggestions here. -Drachasor
Lycanthrope King 08-31-04, 12:59 AM	My group likes the point buy 28, because, lets say Rob rolls, and his totals equal 50 or so (when adding the ability scores together) and then, lets say jason, when he rolls, gets 96. I personally prefer rolling 4d6, 7 times, drop the lowest roll of each 4d6 and then drop the lowest 4d6.
Sae Cael Oanar 08-31-04, 10:38 AM	we just started new characters, did the 4d6 thing, except you get one 18. it makes everyone good at what they are supposed to be. the wizard has 18 int, ranger (elf) has 20 dex. i other than that all the scores were around average, i think it will work out fine.
Draeconix 09-09-04, 03:07 AM	I favor the following method: Roll 4d6 7 times dropping the lowest die on each roll and totaling the rest. Then drop your lowest score of the 7 and use the other 6. It gives you the oppurtunity to get a better score but also maintains the diversity in scores needed to create an interesting character. And by the way, the Hulk's stats would be more like Int 16, Str 20. He was a freaking geneticist people if ou follow the movie, but a scientist nonetheless if not.
General Dorsey 09-09-04, 04:46 AM	The 1st Edition Unearthed Arcana had another way of rolling. Here is a how it worked: This method can only be used to create human (in 3.5 I think it won't matter so much) player characters. It gives the player an opportunity to generate a character of a desired class (subject to the DM’s approval) and be assured that the ability scores for the character will meet the minimum requirements for the class in question. After the player’s selection of a class is approved, he or she rolls a certain number of six-sided dice for each ability score to be generated, as indicated on the following table. The best three die rolls for each ability are added together to produce the score. (For example, a fighter’s strength is determined by rolling 9d6 and keeping the three highest results.) Class Strength Dexterity Constitution Intelligence Wisdom Charisma Barbarian 9 7 8 3 5 6 Cleric 7 5 8 4 9 6 Druid 7 5 6 4 8 8 Fighter 9 7 8 3 5 6 Monk 7 8 6 5 9 4 Paladin 7 3 6 5 8 9 Ranger 7 5 9 6 8 4 Rogue 6 9 7 5 3 4 Wizard 4 8 6 9 7 5 It looks like you would basically take 38d6 and divide the rolls up amongst the 6 stats. You cannot put less than 3 dice into one stat and no more than 9 dice. Simply take the best three of each set. I never used the method myself. I have been using the 4d6 reroll 1's drop the lowest since the mid 80's. BTW, how does one create tables on these boards. I hate how my tables always turn out.
Darrett 09-09-04, 03:07 PM	For anyone wanting high-powered campaigns, do point buy. Otherwise, stick with the 4D6 - (Lowest Die) method. Another option is to allow players to reroll all 1s. Even the basic roll method of 4D6 - (Lowest Die) is a step up from what I've always played. In 2nd Edition AD&D we always did 3D6, assign scores, with no rerolls allowed. You play what you get. In a lot of ways, that method makes the game more fun since you're not always able to deal with every situation. Less pulp fiction, more reality.
Sphyre 09-09-04, 05:20 PM	I've devised this method up for versatile random scores: Pointbuy Rolling Method It allows players to have a high chance of an 18 at the cost of others, or have a more regular stat aquisition method - player's choice with DM control.