How bad DMs can be [Archive] - Wizards Community

How bad DMs can be [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Derren S.
03-20-05, 07:03 AM I would interested how bad your worst DMs were and if they can top mine.

My DM is:

- unknowledgable.
Despite owning the 3.5 books since the beginning he still hasn't bothered to read them. He still thinks Darkness gives total concealment and spell focus gives +2 DC and can't even remember basic rules sometimes.

- unprepared/unorganized
Despite telling us he has enough material for months of playing our sessions barely last 3 hours because he always looses important papers. He also fails to even check the rules before he uses them, for example when he plays wizards he doesn't even read the spells he gives them.

- bad tactican
He plays wizards as melee fighters and just uses basic (blasting) spells without any tacitcs in mind. Thats the same for all his opponents. We can basically stay in a dorway and slay hundereds of enemies. And then he is always angry that we win so easily.

- unbalanced
Because of his bad tacitcs he expects us to constantly fight enemies way over our CR (like 4 lcl 6 charaters vs. ten lvl 8 wizards). The bad thing is be often win this encounters. To his defense I don't know he understands how to use CR...

- monty haul
As we constantly fight things over our CL he hands out magical items like candy. (But imo I think thats because his friend wants to be uber, see below). For example at lvl 6 a character now has a intelligent sunblade, two other magical swords and magical armor (each is +1).
When we (than means everyone except his friend) tell him we don't like that he (&friend) argue that we need this treasure because we constantly fight things over our CR and he could kill us all anytime if he wanted to. :rolleyes:

- plays favorites
The sunblade is in posession of his close frind (who is currently a fighter/human paragon/some sort of priest found on the website and soon takes the next class. A player accidentally found one of the lost papers from the DM where the gold values of the gear everyone will have after get after he gives us our "special treasure" and all players will have only have half the gear his close friend has.
We also have so far also found a full plate which is supposed to be the special treasure for a other player (we don't know what it does yet) and when someone other took the armor he treatened to kill the character if he doesn't give the armor to the one it is intended for.

- tells bad stories
While his main story has not unfolded yet so I can't judge it, the whole world is just bad. We play in the FR but this is really hard to notice. Waterdeep is exactly the same as Luskan and while he constantly says he waits for the Waterdeep sourcbook he never uses things which is written in the FRCS about this cities.
His "jokes" are also extremly bad. On the way to Luskan we encountered two woman called Gabi and Xeniella :banghead:
Yeah, its THAT bad.

So anyone out there who has similar DMS?
Oh and don't tell me to simply leave this DM, I will wait to see his next session and will do it then.
allenthailand
03-20-05, 07:14 AM It could be worse, at least your DM isn't trying to control the actions of your characters. My advice? Offer to be DM yourself, or just wait until they ask you.

I was the player with more knowledge of the rules than my DMs for quite some time until I was asked to be DM, but I love doing it now. Hard work though.
Derren S.
03-20-05, 07:17 AM It could be worse, at least your DM isn't trying to control the actions of your characters.

"and when someone other took the armor he treatened to kill the character if he doesn't give the armor to the one it is intended for."

My advice? Offer to be DM yourself, or just wait until they ask you.

I was the player with more knowledge of the rules than my DMs for quite some time until I was asked to be DM, but I love doing it now. Hard work though.

I would but I have DMed for 3 years now and I am burned out.
ehrin
03-20-05, 09:12 AM I always figured the wrong person getting the wrong treasure was some kind of rule... No matter what I do as a DM, placing interesting magical treasure with game/story ties to the characters, it seems inevitable that the Half Orc Barbarian grabs the "stick of power", and the wizard takes the boots of scouting, while the rogue gets the spell gem increaser, and the fighter grabs the flute of charming... leaving the bard with the super heavy battle axe of death or something...

Short of a will "I leave my battle axe to a barbarian or fighter, and my wand of healing to a cleric" or little name tags on everything, I just accept that my best laid plans fail... But I would never railroad or threaten the players for their choices.

You have a bad one...
Gargs454
03-20-05, 09:48 AM Yes, it definitely sounds like a bad DM (which I really hate to say since DM'ing is far from easy). The two most concerning issues are demanding that particular treasure go to specific individuals and his apparent unwillingness to discuss the issues that most everyone else sees.

The only real advice that I can offer is try to talk to him again as a group in an effort to show him the error of his ways. Things like tactics and CR's etc. can be improved over time, but if he is unwilling to listen to the faults, then he will never improve.

If he refuses to listen, then you and your group will have to decide a) are we still having enough fun despite all the issues? and b) if not, is it worth it to overthrow him and either make our own game or just start a new campaign with a different DM.

I would definitely recommend trying to talk to him again. Make sure you stress how unenjoyable he is making the game and let him know that the rest of the group (aside from his apparent favorite) does not enjoy the game as it is running and that you all might be forced to end the campaign if he doesn't start to improve. That way at least, if you do have to take the harsh action of quitting or overthrowing the DM, he will at least have been warned and would only have himself to blame. Also, you may want to try to approach his friend in private (but as a group) and let him know how the rest of you feel. Its possible that you will be able to sway him, which would go a long way toward winning over the DM as well. If his friend though simply wants to "be uber" then you should really ask yourself if you even want to play with him.
Derren S.
03-20-05, 09:59 AM Sadly he is one of the type that never listens. He plaed since 3.0 came out so he should know the basic things.

To his defense, he really tries, but it seems to me that he simply can't do it better.
Moon-Lancer
03-20-05, 11:10 AM i had (knew of) a dm that played his own pc's and 4 to 6 of his characters stats would be 18's he said he rolled them. He also had no reading comprehension. he also would somehow get a ton of stuff at level 1. he would read the rules and read them over and over and justify bending them (every read something over and over and suddenly new meanings in the reading change because that is what you wanted it to say)

I had another dm (actual dm) that had taken out the monk. He also took out everything that did not fit into a very ridged templar type campaign. Only races could be sertion classes. There were no rapiers or fullplates. I guess its all right to have your campaign setting anyway you wish, but if tell your players they are going to play 3.5 and then change it completely.... its kindof like false advertising. he also had a power issue problems that stemmed from the dm god hood of 2.0.

an example was that i was playing an elf, and at the end of the session the entire party was put to sleep. No save, just asleep. Elves’s have magical immunity to sleep effects, but if it was non magical, were was the will or fort save?

Dms that take away from the will of the pc's characters by having important events that disallowing the characters a chance to change fate really ticks me off. I really dislike it when a dm has to throw away all the rules and choices or will of the characters to make a story. Its more interactive if the pc’s alter the stream of fate rather then the dm.
Nytmare
03-20-05, 11:19 AM The The Worst Dungeon Master Ever (http://thingsihate.org/view/123/the_worst_dungeon_master_ever_part_one)
Maerdash
03-20-05, 01:44 PM You want a bad dm try these house rules on for size.
1:Attacks are staggered meaning you take one attack at a time and go through all characters before taking second attacks and so on
2:All metamagic feats only increase spell level by one (thats right quickened magic missle as a second level spell....needless to say im a wizard)
3:If you close on an enemy they get an attack of opp(because i would smack someone running at me with a sword in my dms words)
4:Ogres dont get a level adjustment
5:nor due minotaur :rolleyes:
6:You cant grapple an enemy with a weapon unless hes on the ground because he can "keep you at bay with his weapon(to which i replied ok ill take an ATTACK OF OPP even though i have imp grapple.....he allowed it and i slaughtered his little wyvern)
7:nevermind i can go on forever so im stopping here and being grateful that i dm my own group once a week too
weasel fierce
03-20-05, 01:48 PM I had another dm (actual dm) that had taken out the monk. He also took out everything that did not fit into a very ridged templar type campaign. Only races could be sertion classes. There were no rapiers or fullplates. I guess its all right to have your campaign setting anyway you wish, but if tell your players they are going to play 3.5 and then change it completely.... its kindof like false advertising. he also had a power issue problems that stemmed from the dm god hood of 2.0.

While I agree with the rest of your post, the above, I have no problem with. I dont have any renaisance stuff in my campaign world, since the world isnt at that technological level. Likewise, racial class limitations are fine, in my book.

However, its something the DM should make players aware of. If I change things drastically, I always provide a sheet of paper, with the changes
Salla
03-20-05, 04:09 PM I would interested how bad your worst DMs were and if they can top mine.So anyone out there who has similar DMS?

Well, I'm in a game with a rotating DM structure (different games), but I can definitely say that your list synchs up quite well with one guy in my group.
Afarian
03-20-05, 08:25 PM Hmmmm, I wouldn't say he's all that terrible, perhaps a bit inexperienced but not beyond redemption. The one flaw I see as being a major problem though is the amount of wealth his "favored" PC has compared to the rest of you, that's definetly bad Dm'ing in anyone's book and I believe you should bring that up as an issue.
As for the rest of the flaws, like I said before, sounds like mostly Newbie mistakes. Being a Noob DM myself I must admit to having made quite a few of the above mentioned, albeit inadvertently.

As for Bad Dm's, the DM in my game has made some interesting House rules. He's by all means a cool guy outside of the game and very nice person but some of his rules seem a bit unfair. The most recent thing he did was basically erase my 3 levels of wizard. I died and was somehow mysteriously brought back as a "Curst" a wierd sort of Undead from FR. The good news I have a lot more HP than I did before and slightly higher AC. The bad news, he made me drop everything I had on me at the time (I had no choice, apparently I wasn't in control of my character) and I essentially lost 3 levels of caster. I lost all my spells, Feats, skills etc. Basically the only thing I kept from those caster levels was the +1 BAB and saves.
Koofoo95
03-20-05, 09:21 PM One of my DMs runs a good campaign normally, but he had these two NPCs come with us, and they both were basically invincable leaving no point to us PC's and in that same campaign he had an iceberg get shot out of a catapult and land on me, yes and iceberg, lets just say that the other pcs didnt get it off me in time to be saved from -10
allenthailand
03-21-05, 03:06 AM Sorry, I had missed the part about the Dm threatening your character. Run, don't walk from this game. Get involved in an online game or something instead, it's slower, but at least it's something.
Kaldric
03-21-05, 07:46 AM You don't like the DM, not much point in wasting more time. You probably don't like his friend, either, and his friend doesn't seem to be doing anything to help anyone else have fun, so that's a player to avoid, as well. Maybe you should just DM a game for the rest of the players. And let the DM and his friend know beforehand, and tell them why you and the other players feel it is necessary. If the other players don't have a problem with the playstyle, then I would suggest you find another group.
Cold Napalm
03-21-05, 02:22 PM Humm worst DM...

1) Did NOT know the rules at all...but when he was a player he was somwhow a rules lawyer.

2) Since he could not recall the rules, made on up on the spot...usually to the players detriment.

3) RAILROAD...oh your character wouldn't do that. No the paladin is going to work with somebody who obviously acted evil and callious (killed a minion and made a cold snide comment about it)...just so the story can go on.

4) LACK of treasure. EVERYONE had less then a 1/4 of the treasure they were suppose to have and most of it was in the form of comsumable.

5) but the lack of treasure is okay, we all got custom rings worth 25k that basically ONLY lets us talk with his NPC. (custom magic items cost more don't ya know). Oh yeah and we can't sell em because our characters wouldn't.

6) ALWAY complains that character builds are broken. Somehow an arcane archer is broken?!? Umm yeah...doing 4d8+12 a round at level 15 is broken...sure...

7) Monsters way to easy since they never use anything they have right. I'm sure the red dragon will waltz into an ice storm to try to melee the mage instead of say using it's breath weapon and getting the mage and the bard and the archer all at once AND not enter an ice storm.

8) oh yeah plays favorites...(the bard).

We de DMed him already.
Phrennzy
03-21-05, 04:30 PM To his defense, he really tries, but it seems to me that he simply can't do it better.

Then make peace with it and find the good parts.
RogerWilco
03-27-05, 11:13 AM Sadly he is one of the type that never listens. He plaed since 3.0 came out so he should know the basic things.

To his defense, he really tries, but it seems to me that he simply can't do it better.
Well, We rotate DMship in our group, and one of us has some of the problems you mention as DM:
- unknowledgable
- unprepared/unorganized
- bad tactican
- unbalanced
- monty haul
Fortunately he does listen to our advice, but he just has the memory of a seeve, so being a DM is hard for him. He is (slowly) improving, experience is the only master here.
As to playing favorites, that just has to stop. Tell your DM that very clearly. All other things will only get better with time, giving advice (after a session) on how he could have done better, might improve him over time.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Derren S. 03-20-05, 07:03 AM	I would interested how bad your worst DMs were and if they can top mine. My DM is: - unknowledgable. Despite owning the 3.5 books since the beginning he still hasn't bothered to read them. He still thinks Darkness gives total concealment and spell focus gives +2 DC and can't even remember basic rules sometimes. - unprepared/unorganized Despite telling us he has enough material for months of playing our sessions barely last 3 hours because he always looses important papers. He also fails to even check the rules before he uses them, for example when he plays wizards he doesn't even read the spells he gives them. - bad tactican He plays wizards as melee fighters and just uses basic (blasting) spells without any tacitcs in mind. Thats the same for all his opponents. We can basically stay in a dorway and slay hundereds of enemies. And then he is always angry that we win so easily. - unbalanced Because of his bad tacitcs he expects us to constantly fight enemies way over our CR (like 4 lcl 6 charaters vs. ten lvl 8 wizards). The bad thing is be often win this encounters. To his defense I don't know he understands how to use CR... - monty haul As we constantly fight things over our CL he hands out magical items like candy. (But imo I think thats because his friend wants to be uber, see below). For example at lvl 6 a character now has a intelligent sunblade, two other magical swords and magical armor (each is +1). When we (than means everyone except his friend) tell him we don't like that he (&friend) argue that we need this treasure because we constantly fight things over our CR and he could kill us all anytime if he wanted to. :rolleyes: - plays favorites The sunblade is in posession of his close frind (who is currently a fighter/human paragon/some sort of priest found on the website and soon takes the next class. A player accidentally found one of the lost papers from the DM where the gold values of the gear everyone will have after get after he gives us our "special treasure" and all players will have only have half the gear his close friend has. We also have so far also found a full plate which is supposed to be the special treasure for a other player (we don't know what it does yet) and when someone other took the armor he treatened to kill the character if he doesn't give the armor to the one it is intended for. - tells bad stories While his main story has not unfolded yet so I can't judge it, the whole world is just bad. We play in the FR but this is really hard to notice. Waterdeep is exactly the same as Luskan and while he constantly says he waits for the Waterdeep sourcbook he never uses things which is written in the FRCS about this cities. His "jokes" are also extremly bad. On the way to Luskan we encountered two woman called Gabi and Xeniella :banghead: Yeah, its THAT bad. So anyone out there who has similar DMS? Oh and don't tell me to simply leave this DM, I will wait to see his next session and will do it then.
allenthailand 03-20-05, 07:14 AM	It could be worse, at least your DM isn't trying to control the actions of your characters. My advice? Offer to be DM yourself, or just wait until they ask you. I was the player with more knowledge of the rules than my DMs for quite some time until I was asked to be DM, but I love doing it now. Hard work though.
Derren S. 03-20-05, 07:17 AM	It could be worse, at least your DM isn't trying to control the actions of your characters. "and when someone other took the armor he treatened to kill the character if he doesn't give the armor to the one it is intended for." My advice? Offer to be DM yourself, or just wait until they ask you. I was the player with more knowledge of the rules than my DMs for quite some time until I was asked to be DM, but I love doing it now. Hard work though. I would but I have DMed for 3 years now and I am burned out.
ehrin 03-20-05, 09:12 AM	I always figured the wrong person getting the wrong treasure was some kind of rule... No matter what I do as a DM, placing interesting magical treasure with game/story ties to the characters, it seems inevitable that the Half Orc Barbarian grabs the "stick of power", and the wizard takes the boots of scouting, while the rogue gets the spell gem increaser, and the fighter grabs the flute of charming... leaving the bard with the super heavy battle axe of death or something... Short of a will "I leave my battle axe to a barbarian or fighter, and my wand of healing to a cleric" or little name tags on everything, I just accept that my best laid plans fail... But I would never railroad or threaten the players for their choices. You have a bad one...
Gargs454 03-20-05, 09:48 AM	Yes, it definitely sounds like a bad DM (which I really hate to say since DM'ing is far from easy). The two most concerning issues are demanding that particular treasure go to specific individuals and his apparent unwillingness to discuss the issues that most everyone else sees. The only real advice that I can offer is try to talk to him again as a group in an effort to show him the error of his ways. Things like tactics and CR's etc. can be improved over time, but if he is unwilling to listen to the faults, then he will never improve. If he refuses to listen, then you and your group will have to decide a) are we still having enough fun despite all the issues? and b) if not, is it worth it to overthrow him and either make our own game or just start a new campaign with a different DM. I would definitely recommend trying to talk to him again. Make sure you stress how unenjoyable he is making the game and let him know that the rest of the group (aside from his apparent favorite) does not enjoy the game as it is running and that you all might be forced to end the campaign if he doesn't start to improve. That way at least, if you do have to take the harsh action of quitting or overthrowing the DM, he will at least have been warned and would only have himself to blame. Also, you may want to try to approach his friend in private (but as a group) and let him know how the rest of you feel. Its possible that you will be able to sway him, which would go a long way toward winning over the DM as well. If his friend though simply wants to "be uber" then you should really ask yourself if you even want to play with him.
Derren S. 03-20-05, 09:59 AM	Sadly he is one of the type that never listens. He plaed since 3.0 came out so he should know the basic things. To his defense, he really tries, but it seems to me that he simply can't do it better.
Moon-Lancer 03-20-05, 11:10 AM	i had (knew of) a dm that played his own pc's and 4 to 6 of his characters stats would be 18's he said he rolled them. He also had no reading comprehension. he also would somehow get a ton of stuff at level 1. he would read the rules and read them over and over and justify bending them (every read something over and over and suddenly new meanings in the reading change because that is what you wanted it to say) I had another dm (actual dm) that had taken out the monk. He also took out everything that did not fit into a very ridged templar type campaign. Only races could be sertion classes. There were no rapiers or fullplates. I guess its all right to have your campaign setting anyway you wish, but if tell your players they are going to play 3.5 and then change it completely.... its kindof like false advertising. he also had a power issue problems that stemmed from the dm god hood of 2.0. an example was that i was playing an elf, and at the end of the session the entire party was put to sleep. No save, just asleep. Elves’s have magical immunity to sleep effects, but if it was non magical, were was the will or fort save? Dms that take away from the will of the pc's characters by having important events that disallowing the characters a chance to change fate really ticks me off. I really dislike it when a dm has to throw away all the rules and choices or will of the characters to make a story. Its more interactive if the pc’s alter the stream of fate rather then the dm.
Nytmare 03-20-05, 11:19 AM	The The Worst Dungeon Master Ever (http://thingsihate.org/view/123/the_worst_dungeon_master_ever_part_one)
Maerdash 03-20-05, 01:44 PM	You want a bad dm try these house rules on for size. 1:Attacks are staggered meaning you take one attack at a time and go through all characters before taking second attacks and so on 2:All metamagic feats only increase spell level by one (thats right quickened magic missle as a second level spell....needless to say im a wizard) 3:If you close on an enemy they get an attack of opp(because i would smack someone running at me with a sword in my dms words) 4:Ogres dont get a level adjustment 5:nor due minotaur :rolleyes: 6:You cant grapple an enemy with a weapon unless hes on the ground because he can "keep you at bay with his weapon(to which i replied ok ill take an ATTACK OF OPP even though i have imp grapple.....he allowed it and i slaughtered his little wyvern) 7:nevermind i can go on forever so im stopping here and being grateful that i dm my own group once a week too
weasel fierce 03-20-05, 01:48 PM	I had another dm (actual dm) that had taken out the monk. He also took out everything that did not fit into a very ridged templar type campaign. Only races could be sertion classes. There were no rapiers or fullplates. I guess its all right to have your campaign setting anyway you wish, but if tell your players they are going to play 3.5 and then change it completely.... its kindof like false advertising. he also had a power issue problems that stemmed from the dm god hood of 2.0. While I agree with the rest of your post, the above, I have no problem with. I dont have any renaisance stuff in my campaign world, since the world isnt at that technological level. Likewise, racial class limitations are fine, in my book. However, its something the DM should make players aware of. If I change things drastically, I always provide a sheet of paper, with the changes
Salla 03-20-05, 04:09 PM	I would interested how bad your worst DMs were and if they can top mine.So anyone out there who has similar DMS? Well, I'm in a game with a rotating DM structure (different games), but I can definitely say that your list synchs up quite well with one guy in my group.
Afarian 03-20-05, 08:25 PM	Hmmmm, I wouldn't say he's all that terrible, perhaps a bit inexperienced but not beyond redemption. The one flaw I see as being a major problem though is the amount of wealth his "favored" PC has compared to the rest of you, that's definetly bad Dm'ing in anyone's book and I believe you should bring that up as an issue. As for the rest of the flaws, like I said before, sounds like mostly Newbie mistakes. Being a Noob DM myself I must admit to having made quite a few of the above mentioned, albeit inadvertently. As for Bad Dm's, the DM in my game has made some interesting House rules. He's by all means a cool guy outside of the game and very nice person but some of his rules seem a bit unfair. The most recent thing he did was basically erase my 3 levels of wizard. I died and was somehow mysteriously brought back as a "Curst" a wierd sort of Undead from FR. The good news I have a lot more HP than I did before and slightly higher AC. The bad news, he made me drop everything I had on me at the time (I had no choice, apparently I wasn't in control of my character) and I essentially lost 3 levels of caster. I lost all my spells, Feats, skills etc. Basically the only thing I kept from those caster levels was the +1 BAB and saves.
Koofoo95 03-20-05, 09:21 PM	One of my DMs runs a good campaign normally, but he had these two NPCs come with us, and they both were basically invincable leaving no point to us PC's and in that same campaign he had an iceberg get shot out of a catapult and land on me, yes and iceberg, lets just say that the other pcs didnt get it off me in time to be saved from -10
allenthailand 03-21-05, 03:06 AM	Sorry, I had missed the part about the Dm threatening your character. Run, don't walk from this game. Get involved in an online game or something instead, it's slower, but at least it's something.
Kaldric 03-21-05, 07:46 AM	You don't like the DM, not much point in wasting more time. You probably don't like his friend, either, and his friend doesn't seem to be doing anything to help anyone else have fun, so that's a player to avoid, as well. Maybe you should just DM a game for the rest of the players. And let the DM and his friend know beforehand, and tell them why you and the other players feel it is necessary. If the other players don't have a problem with the playstyle, then I would suggest you find another group.
Cold Napalm 03-21-05, 02:22 PM	Humm worst DM... 1) Did NOT know the rules at all...but when he was a player he was somwhow a rules lawyer. 2) Since he could not recall the rules, made on up on the spot...usually to the players detriment. 3) RAILROAD...oh your character wouldn't do that. No the paladin is going to work with somebody who obviously acted evil and callious (killed a minion and made a cold snide comment about it)...just so the story can go on. 4) LACK of treasure. EVERYONE had less then a 1/4 of the treasure they were suppose to have and most of it was in the form of comsumable. 5) but the lack of treasure is okay, we all got custom rings worth 25k that basically ONLY lets us talk with his NPC. (custom magic items cost more don't ya know). Oh yeah and we can't sell em because our characters wouldn't. 6) ALWAY complains that character builds are broken. Somehow an arcane archer is broken?!? Umm yeah...doing 4d8+12 a round at level 15 is broken...sure... 7) Monsters way to easy since they never use anything they have right. I'm sure the red dragon will waltz into an ice storm to try to melee the mage instead of say using it's breath weapon and getting the mage and the bard and the archer all at once AND not enter an ice storm. 8) oh yeah plays favorites...(the bard). We de DMed him already.
Phrennzy 03-21-05, 04:30 PM	To his defense, he really tries, but it seems to me that he simply can't do it better. Then make peace with it and find the good parts.
RogerWilco 03-27-05, 11:13 AM	Sadly he is one of the type that never listens. He plaed since 3.0 came out so he should know the basic things. To his defense, he really tries, but it seems to me that he simply can't do it better. Well, We rotate DMship in our group, and one of us has some of the problems you mention as DM: - unknowledgable - unprepared/unorganized - bad tactican - unbalanced - monty haul Fortunately he does listen to our advice, but he just has the memory of a seeve, so being a DM is hard for him. He is (slowly) improving, experience is the only master here. As to playing favorites, that just has to stop. Tell your DM that very clearly. All other things will only get better with time, giving advice (after a session) on how he could have done better, might improve him over time.