How can I avoid gimping this character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How can I avoid gimping this character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tavi the Spell-Weaver
05-18-07, 10:34 PM I had an idea for a character that I really like, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to build her without making her way too weak. I've been gifted with a lenient DM, so I can get away with some "creative editing" as long as she okays it. Basically, the character is an archetypal healer. She's more likely to be a favored soul than a cleric. The trouble is, fighting tends to be an important part of DnD, and the character I have in mind is a pacifist. I still want her to have an impact on the game, so I'll probably give her high charisma so she can negotiate and so on. I was thinking of trading a lower base attack bonus progression for more skill points or something to that effect. I haven't rolled stats, otherwise I would post those.

I'm still a fairly inexperienced player. Does anyone have any advice? Foresee any problems?
glacialcat
05-18-07, 10:41 PM http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVarian tCloisteredCleric

This might be helpful. Its a variant from Unearthed Arcana, the Cloistered Cleric. Cloistered Clerics have poor BAB, and a d6 hit die, but they have something like Bardic Knowledge, 6+ skill points, 3 domains (one has to be Knowledge), extra spells on the list. See if your DM will allow this in place of a cleric.
Mattarias
05-18-07, 10:44 PM Uhm, is the book of exalted deeds open to you? Vow of nonviolence seems perfect for your character. :)
Reversefigure4
05-18-07, 10:51 PM I'm still a fairly inexperienced player. Does anyone have any advice? Foresee any problems?

Well, yes. Pacifists are insanely annoying characters, and don't gel well with 99% of adventuring parties (this is even WORSE if you choose to play an Exalted Vow of Non-Violence character). It only works if your entire party is into the idea. Otherwise you're left explaining why your pacifist character is quite happy to chum around with a group of people who will, left to their own devices, probably kill half a dozen things every day of their adventuring life.

There's also a high possibility of annoying the other players, as you try to manevuer them into situations where their greatsword-expert Fighter character is totally useless.

A pacifist is as much of a party-disrupting character as the CE Assassin who kills every NPC that walks in front of him. It only works if the group is happy with it.

Speak to the group first.
Tavi the Spell-Weaver
05-18-07, 10:58 PM http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVarian tCloisteredCleric

This might be helpful. Its a variant from Unearthed Arcana, the Cloistered Cleric. Cloistered Clerics have poor BAB, and a d6 hit die, but they have something like Bardic Knowledge, 6+ skill points, 3 domains (one has to be Knowledge), extra spells on the list. See if your DM will allow this in place of a cleric.

This looks promising. The character I had in mind was a halfling, which is why I was thinking favored soul. I was thinking it'd be more likely for her to be "chosen" rather than being trained by a church, because of the halflings' caravan lifestyle. However, I can see this working if I decide to tweak her backstory a little so that she is either raised by a church or is forced to leave the caravan for some reason.

Uhm, is the book of exalted deeds open to you? Vow of nonviolence seems perfect for your character. :)

I was thinking about this when I came up with the character concept. Unfortunately, no one in our group has the Book of Exalted Deeds.
Nathreet
05-18-07, 11:25 PM hierophant with divine reach. Now you can use your BAB to heal allies at range. Problem is you
need to be a cleric 13 to qualify. And really, it isn't too hard to hit your allies anyway.

But even with the high BAB, a straight cleric doesn't have too much that will be wasted. I think you'll be fine.
Fireclave
05-18-07, 11:32 PM Well, yes. Pacifists are insanely annoying characters, and don't gel well with 99% of adventuring parties (this is even WORSE if you choose to play an Exalted Vow of Non-Violence character).
I sorta have to agree with Reversefigure4. In D&D, might all too often makes right and it's shoot first or be killed. I suggest tweaking your ethos just a bit. I say instead, try my sorcerer's philosophy: "Diplomacy First." *Generously give your potential opponents a **fair chance to come to terms with you and open the channels of diplomacy. If they still continue threaten your life, then it's open season and you should feel no qualms with unleashing some Empowered Flamestrikes, since now your actions are technically self-defense ;)

You might also be interested in taking the Subdual Substitution (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#subdualSubstitu tion) feat.

*Note: Generosity is not to be confused with stupidity.
**Note: A fair chance is a verbal warning, and talking is a free action.
Raveni
05-19-07, 12:08 AM Even if you are a healer who doesn't like to engage in combat, you could still try to end it as fast as possible if you are unable to reason with the enemy. You're an explorer, adventurer, holy-do-gooder, or something of the sort, not a mercenary or killer. You can adventure with other like-minded individuals, and though they may be faster to draw their swords, you can often avoid bloodshed for both sides with a well-spoken word.

When combat does break out, try to minimize damage to your party through buff spells. Try to disable the enemies with charm, hold, and other mental spells. Area-effect disablers and de-buffs work great at this. This also helps you get more prisoners and less bodybags. You shouldn't have to do any damage to be "effective" in combat.

These are just a few examples of how you can be "peaceful" and get along with your party. Full-blown "pacifist" can be hard to do, but at the very least you can be the voice of reason. It would be interesting to see if your party started to follow your example and give time for negotiations and dialogue instead of charging everything right away.
Fireclave
05-19-07, 12:37 AM Full-blown "pacifist" can be hard to do, but at the very least you can be the voice of reason. It would be interesting to see if your party started to follow your example and give time for negotiations and dialogue instead of charging everything right away.
Or in other words, ask yourself "What would Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0171.html) do?"
Thubby
05-19-07, 02:28 AM pacifist is only good if everyone is OK with it. that is the only condition.
likes-killing-less-than-typical-adventurer is cool, just dont go overboard with it.

do you have complete divine? if you do check out the feats, some are very good for healers.
Tavi the Spell-Weaver
05-19-07, 03:07 AM Thanks for all the good suggestions! The comments about avoiding complete pacifism are good. I especially like Raveni's suggestions. I'll talk to people and try to keep it sensible.
geekling
05-19-07, 03:15 AM A cleric or favoured soul / bard. Probably would do the trick if you want to keep within RAW and not, as you say you are a bit inexperienced in these matters, get involved in tweaking existing classes.

One I've played myself was a bard/cleric, who while not as much a pacifist, just really were a bit squeamish about hurting folks herself, didn't want blood on her hands - so to speak. Went for the buffing / healing / battlefield control line of magic rather than hurting spells. With a side order of diplomacy type face skills and the charm domain.
I would absolutely say she pulled her weight in the party. Even if the only foes she 'felled' was those killed by people she'd charmed.

While healing is always appreciated, in actual combat buffing the other players and the odd grease spell etc. to give the foes a disadvantage can do even more.

Even if you don't effectivly attack anything, you can still be useful in a fight. Fighting defensivly to aid another in combat giving them bonuses to their attacks or defence (aid another bonuses stack with everything, so they are ontop of the buffing you've provided by bardsong etc.) and to provide better flanking oportunities - rogues love their flanking (and of course flanking bonuses stack with other buffing as well.)

The important thing for player-harmony seems to be to actually _do_ something during combat. Not just hang back and wait around for combat to end so you can come in and heal up the ones still standing.
ArcanaKnight
05-19-07, 03:55 AM Another way you could help out is to focus more on either buffing the rest of the party or summoning allies to fight with you. A cleric focused on summoning buddies and eventually getting planar allies can be pretty handy in a fight and allows for more flanking opportunities for the sneaky ones.

Creatures with Magic Circle vs Evil are great fun.
draco1119
05-19-07, 04:20 AM My DM put together a "Pacifist" bard NPC. Vow of Nonviolence and all. Thing is, he's an adversary, and uses a whip with Improved Disarm. Little so-and-so stole my +6 Adamantine Bastard Sword. :weep:

I fyou want, I'll see if I can get him to PM you his stats.
DrMorganes
05-19-07, 11:39 AM Tad Williams' excellent fantasy trilogy Sorrow, Memory, and Thorn (comprised of The Dragon Bone Chair, The Stone of Farewell, and To Green Angel Tower) contains an excellent character who may provide inspiration. Camaris - now in his late 60s or early 70s - was and is the greatest warrior the world has seen. He is a very holy man (perhaps a paladin in D&D terms) who is an absolute terror on the battlefield. However, before the battle he does everything he can to avoid the necessity for a fight. After he spends time praying for himself and the souls of those he was forced to slay. He understands his martial prowess to be a gift from God, but he worries that violence is too easy a path with too little return. (The series has an inspired method of placing a monotheistic religion into a standard polytheistic world without being preachy one way or the other - great stuff for DMs wishing to deal with such things!)

I found Caramis - a very minor supporting NPC - to be a more memorable character than most of the main characters largely due to how well his ethos were defined.

I encourage you to expand on your character's view of violence. If he opposed to violence as a concept (i.e., total pacifism like the Way of the Leaf from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time), scrap it. This sort of ethical high horse works well for NPC foils, but is a practical impossibility for a PC. As noted, you'll find yourself arguing with your party as much or more as you find yourself adventuring.

So ask your character some questions. How does (s)he feel about self-defense? Does she strike to kill or merely to subdue? killing animals? Aberrations? Outsiders? other races? That is, does your character believe that standard demihuman races have more "value" than, say, an orc, goblin, or ogre? (demihuman an old school term for the Player Character races listed in the Player's Handbook.) witnessing violent confrontations? That is, if he witnessed a street fight, would he step in to break it up and use the opportunity to give a short sermon on the benefits of peace? How does your character behave after doing something violent? Does she spend some time in prayer? Does she say a prayer for the departed?

Once you've defined just how pacifistic your PC will be and under what circumstances, then and only then should you worry about the actual build: class, spell selection, weapon choices, domains, etc.
Sci
05-19-07, 11:47 AM There's always the Healer class in the Miniatures handbook. You get a unicorn companion, you add your charisma bonus to heal spells (making those 0-level spells actually somewhat useful for once), and you have crazy good spells-per-day. It goes AWESOME with the Combat Medic from Heroes of Battle, which tags sanctuary on all your heal spells and gives other nice little bonuses with full caster progression. Throw in Vow of Nonviolence/Vow of Peace and that one prestige class in the Book of Exalted Deeds that I forget the name of (Acolyte of something? The one with ninth-level spells in nine levels and a touch that censures demons) and you have the ultimate healer.

Is it fun to play? If you're a combat guy like me, HECK NO, but it's sure great to have on your team.
Magrus
05-19-07, 12:59 PM There's always the Healer class in the Miniatures handbook. You get a unicorn companion, you add your charisma bonus to heal spells (making those 0-level spells actually somewhat useful for once), and you have crazy good spells-per-day. It goes AWESOME with the Combat Medic from Heroes of Battle, which tags sanctuary on all your heal spells and gives other nice little bonuses with full caster progression. Throw in Vow of Nonviolence/Vow of Peace and that one prestige class in the Book of Exalted Deeds that I forget the name of (Acolyte of something? The one with ninth-level spells in nine levels and a touch that censures demons) and you have the ultimate healer.

Is it fun to play? If you're a combat guy like me, HECK NO, but it's sure great to have on your team.

I was just going to suggest the Healer/ Combat Medic route, so I'll second it.
Nathreet
05-19-07, 01:37 PM My DM put together a "Pacifist" bard NPC. Vow of Nonviolence and all. Thing is, he's an adversary, and uses a whip with Improved Disarm. Little so-and-so stole my +6 Adamantine Bastard Sword. :weep:

I fyou want, I'll see if I can get him to PM you his stats.

There you go. Grab improved trip, improved disarm or improved grapple. That'd use your attack rolls. Or ignore them altogether. You can be an effective straight cleric without attacking.
HassanNinkin
05-19-07, 06:49 PM So ask your character some questions. How does (s)he feel about self-defense? Does she strike to kill or merely to subdue? killing animals? Aberrations? Outsiders? other races? That is, does your character believe that standard demihuman races have more "value" than, say, an orc, goblin, or ogre? (demihuman an old school term for the Player Character races listed in the Player's Handbook.)

Once you've defined just how pacifistic your PC will be and under what circumstances, then and only then should you worry about the actual build: class, spell selection, weapon choices, domains, etc.

Wow, this just gave me an awesome roleplaying idea. How fun would it be to play an absolute pacifist who defines violence as: violence done against my species. As long as they're dirty savages, slaughtering's too good for 'em!
StoneStokes
05-20-07, 01:38 AM I agree with Sci:

Go Healer, from the Miniature's Handbook.

It is almost exactly what you described in your original post. The rest of the party will LOVE you!
kelvinaw273
05-20-07, 05:02 AM I found Caramis - a very minor supporting NPC - to be a more memorable character than most of the main characters largely due to how well his ethos were defined.

Caramis was Sir Lancelot in a different setting, really, and followed the chivalry ethos to the spirit and the letter ... mostly. Like Lancelot his great weakness was for Queens ...
Shaftiel
05-20-07, 05:16 PM DrMorganes hit the nail on the head: will you kill constructs? undead? demons? wolves? oozes? There are billions of critters in D&D that really should be killed.

The other things you should think about before hand are
1) If you go subdual/disarm/etc, what do you do with the people you disable? That is, if your party fights 6 orcs, kills 5, you knock one out, and the fighter coup-de-gras it that seems to defeat the purpose of knocking it out.
2) If you keep your enemies alive, what the hck do you do with them after? Escorting prisoners, or letting them go with instructions to never return, can both be either a huge problems or none at all depending on the DM.
3) Finally, what would make you fight full-on? Because at some point it's going to come down to you attacking or a potential TPK, and figuring out a little of the rationale/conditions for your committing violence beforehand will speed things up (when it happens), let you do it in character, and maybe keep the party from getting killed during the round or two where you'd otherwise be going "I don't know guys, I really don't like using my staff."

Good luck with the character! It sounds like a challenge.

-Shaftiel

Edit: Also, there's a feat in (I think) Complete divine that lets all your healing spells heal +2 hp/spell level. Great feat and totally fits the character.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tavi the Spell-Weaver 05-18-07, 10:34 PM	I had an idea for a character that I really like, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to build her without making her way too weak. I've been gifted with a lenient DM, so I can get away with some "creative editing" as long as she okays it. Basically, the character is an archetypal healer. She's more likely to be a favored soul than a cleric. The trouble is, fighting tends to be an important part of DnD, and the character I have in mind is a pacifist. I still want her to have an impact on the game, so I'll probably give her high charisma so she can negotiate and so on. I was thinking of trading a lower base attack bonus progression for more skill points or something to that effect. I haven't rolled stats, otherwise I would post those. I'm still a fairly inexperienced player. Does anyone have any advice? Foresee any problems?
glacialcat 05-18-07, 10:41 PM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVarian tCloisteredCleric This might be helpful. Its a variant from Unearthed Arcana, the Cloistered Cleric. Cloistered Clerics have poor BAB, and a d6 hit die, but they have something like Bardic Knowledge, 6+ skill points, 3 domains (one has to be Knowledge), extra spells on the list. See if your DM will allow this in place of a cleric.
Mattarias 05-18-07, 10:44 PM	Uhm, is the book of exalted deeds open to you? Vow of nonviolence seems perfect for your character. :)
Reversefigure4 05-18-07, 10:51 PM	I'm still a fairly inexperienced player. Does anyone have any advice? Foresee any problems? Well, yes. Pacifists are insanely annoying characters, and don't gel well with 99% of adventuring parties (this is even WORSE if you choose to play an Exalted Vow of Non-Violence character). It only works if your entire party is into the idea. Otherwise you're left explaining why your pacifist character is quite happy to chum around with a group of people who will, left to their own devices, probably kill half a dozen things every day of their adventuring life. There's also a high possibility of annoying the other players, as you try to manevuer them into situations where their greatsword-expert Fighter character is totally useless. A pacifist is as much of a party-disrupting character as the CE Assassin who kills every NPC that walks in front of him. It only works if the group is happy with it. Speak to the group first.
Tavi the Spell-Weaver 05-18-07, 10:58 PM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVarian tCloisteredCleric This might be helpful. Its a variant from Unearthed Arcana, the Cloistered Cleric. Cloistered Clerics have poor BAB, and a d6 hit die, but they have something like Bardic Knowledge, 6+ skill points, 3 domains (one has to be Knowledge), extra spells on the list. See if your DM will allow this in place of a cleric. This looks promising. The character I had in mind was a halfling, which is why I was thinking favored soul. I was thinking it'd be more likely for her to be "chosen" rather than being trained by a church, because of the halflings' caravan lifestyle. However, I can see this working if I decide to tweak her backstory a little so that she is either raised by a church or is forced to leave the caravan for some reason. Uhm, is the book of exalted deeds open to you? Vow of nonviolence seems perfect for your character. :) I was thinking about this when I came up with the character concept. Unfortunately, no one in our group has the Book of Exalted Deeds.
Nathreet 05-18-07, 11:25 PM	hierophant with divine reach. Now you can use your BAB to heal allies at range. Problem is you need to be a cleric 13 to qualify. And really, it isn't too hard to hit your allies anyway. But even with the high BAB, a straight cleric doesn't have too much that will be wasted. I think you'll be fine.
Fireclave 05-18-07, 11:32 PM	Well, yes. Pacifists are insanely annoying characters, and don't gel well with 99% of adventuring parties (this is even WORSE if you choose to play an Exalted Vow of Non-Violence character). I sorta have to agree with Reversefigure4. In D&D, might all too often makes right and it's shoot first or be killed. I suggest tweaking your ethos just a bit. I say instead, try my sorcerer's philosophy: "Diplomacy First." Generously give your potential opponents a fair chance to come to terms with you and open the channels of diplomacy. If they still continue threaten your life, then it's open season and you should feel no qualms with unleashing some Empowered Flamestrikes, since now your actions are technically self-defense ;) You might also be interested in taking the Subdual Substitution (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#subdualSubstitu tion) feat. Note: Generosity is not to be confused with stupidity. **Note: A fair chance is a verbal warning, and talking is a free action.
Raveni 05-19-07, 12:08 AM	Even if you are a healer who doesn't like to engage in combat, you could still try to end it as fast as possible if you are unable to reason with the enemy. You're an explorer, adventurer, holy-do-gooder, or something of the sort, not a mercenary or killer. You can adventure with other like-minded individuals, and though they may be faster to draw their swords, you can often avoid bloodshed for both sides with a well-spoken word. When combat does break out, try to minimize damage to your party through buff spells. Try to disable the enemies with charm, hold, and other mental spells. Area-effect disablers and de-buffs work great at this. This also helps you get more prisoners and less bodybags. You shouldn't have to do any damage to be "effective" in combat. These are just a few examples of how you can be "peaceful" and get along with your party. Full-blown "pacifist" can be hard to do, but at the very least you can be the voice of reason. It would be interesting to see if your party started to follow your example and give time for negotiations and dialogue instead of charging everything right away.
Fireclave 05-19-07, 12:37 AM	Full-blown "pacifist" can be hard to do, but at the very least you can be the voice of reason. It would be interesting to see if your party started to follow your example and give time for negotiations and dialogue instead of charging everything right away. Or in other words, ask yourself "What would Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0171.html) do?"
Thubby 05-19-07, 02:28 AM	pacifist is only good if everyone is OK with it. that is the only condition. likes-killing-less-than-typical-adventurer is cool, just dont go overboard with it. do you have complete divine? if you do check out the feats, some are very good for healers.
Tavi the Spell-Weaver 05-19-07, 03:07 AM	Thanks for all the good suggestions! The comments about avoiding complete pacifism are good. I especially like Raveni's suggestions. I'll talk to people and try to keep it sensible.
geekling 05-19-07, 03:15 AM	A cleric or favoured soul / bard. Probably would do the trick if you want to keep within RAW and not, as you say you are a bit inexperienced in these matters, get involved in tweaking existing classes. One I've played myself was a bard/cleric, who while not as much a pacifist, just really were a bit squeamish about hurting folks herself, didn't want blood on her hands - so to speak. Went for the buffing / healing / battlefield control line of magic rather than hurting spells. With a side order of diplomacy type face skills and the charm domain. I would absolutely say she pulled her weight in the party. Even if the only foes she 'felled' was those killed by people she'd charmed. While healing is always appreciated, in actual combat buffing the other players and the odd grease spell etc. to give the foes a disadvantage can do even more. Even if you don't effectivly attack anything, you can still be useful in a fight. Fighting defensivly to aid another in combat giving them bonuses to their attacks or defence (aid another bonuses stack with everything, so they are ontop of the buffing you've provided by bardsong etc.) and to provide better flanking oportunities - rogues love their flanking (and of course flanking bonuses stack with other buffing as well.) The important thing for player-harmony seems to be to actually _do_ something during combat. Not just hang back and wait around for combat to end so you can come in and heal up the ones still standing.
ArcanaKnight 05-19-07, 03:55 AM	Another way you could help out is to focus more on either buffing the rest of the party or summoning allies to fight with you. A cleric focused on summoning buddies and eventually getting planar allies can be pretty handy in a fight and allows for more flanking opportunities for the sneaky ones. Creatures with Magic Circle vs Evil are great fun.
draco1119 05-19-07, 04:20 AM	My DM put together a "Pacifist" bard NPC. Vow of Nonviolence and all. Thing is, he's an adversary, and uses a whip with Improved Disarm. Little so-and-so stole my +6 Adamantine Bastard Sword. :weep: I fyou want, I'll see if I can get him to PM you his stats.
DrMorganes 05-19-07, 11:39 AM	Tad Williams' excellent fantasy trilogy Sorrow, Memory, and Thorn (comprised of The Dragon Bone Chair, The Stone of Farewell, and To Green Angel Tower) contains an excellent character who may provide inspiration. Camaris - now in his late 60s or early 70s - was and is the greatest warrior the world has seen. He is a very holy man (perhaps a paladin in D&D terms) who is an absolute terror on the battlefield. However, before the battle he does everything he can to avoid the necessity for a fight. After he spends time praying for himself and the souls of those he was forced to slay. He understands his martial prowess to be a gift from God, but he worries that violence is too easy a path with too little return. (The series has an inspired method of placing a monotheistic religion into a standard polytheistic world without being preachy one way or the other - great stuff for DMs wishing to deal with such things!) I found Caramis - a very minor supporting NPC - to be a more memorable character than most of the main characters largely due to how well his ethos were defined. I encourage you to expand on your character's view of violence. If he opposed to violence as a concept (i.e., total pacifism like the Way of the Leaf from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time), scrap it. This sort of ethical high horse works well for NPC foils, but is a practical impossibility for a PC. As noted, you'll find yourself arguing with your party as much or more as you find yourself adventuring. So ask your character some questions. How does (s)he feel about self-defense? Does she strike to kill or merely to subdue? killing animals? Aberrations? Outsiders? other races? That is, does your character believe that standard demihuman races have more "value" than, say, an orc, goblin, or ogre? (demihuman an old school term for the Player Character races listed in the Player's Handbook.) witnessing violent confrontations? That is, if he witnessed a street fight, would he step in to break it up and use the opportunity to give a short sermon on the benefits of peace? How does your character behave after doing something violent? Does she spend some time in prayer? Does she say a prayer for the departed? Once you've defined just how pacifistic your PC will be and under what circumstances, then and only then should you worry about the actual build: class, spell selection, weapon choices, domains, etc.
Sci 05-19-07, 11:47 AM	There's always the Healer class in the Miniatures handbook. You get a unicorn companion, you add your charisma bonus to heal spells (making those 0-level spells actually somewhat useful for once), and you have crazy good spells-per-day. It goes AWESOME with the Combat Medic from Heroes of Battle, which tags sanctuary on all your heal spells and gives other nice little bonuses with full caster progression. Throw in Vow of Nonviolence/Vow of Peace and that one prestige class in the Book of Exalted Deeds that I forget the name of (Acolyte of something? The one with ninth-level spells in nine levels and a touch that censures demons) and you have the ultimate healer. Is it fun to play? If you're a combat guy like me, HECK NO, but it's sure great to have on your team.
Magrus 05-19-07, 12:59 PM	There's always the Healer class in the Miniatures handbook. You get a unicorn companion, you add your charisma bonus to heal spells (making those 0-level spells actually somewhat useful for once), and you have crazy good spells-per-day. It goes AWESOME with the Combat Medic from Heroes of Battle, which tags sanctuary on all your heal spells and gives other nice little bonuses with full caster progression. Throw in Vow of Nonviolence/Vow of Peace and that one prestige class in the Book of Exalted Deeds that I forget the name of (Acolyte of something? The one with ninth-level spells in nine levels and a touch that censures demons) and you have the ultimate healer. Is it fun to play? If you're a combat guy like me, HECK NO, but it's sure great to have on your team. I was just going to suggest the Healer/ Combat Medic route, so I'll second it.
Nathreet 05-19-07, 01:37 PM	My DM put together a "Pacifist" bard NPC. Vow of Nonviolence and all. Thing is, he's an adversary, and uses a whip with Improved Disarm. Little so-and-so stole my +6 Adamantine Bastard Sword. :weep: I fyou want, I'll see if I can get him to PM you his stats. There you go. Grab improved trip, improved disarm or improved grapple. That'd use your attack rolls. Or ignore them altogether. You can be an effective straight cleric without attacking.
HassanNinkin 05-19-07, 06:49 PM	So ask your character some questions. How does (s)he feel about self-defense? Does she strike to kill or merely to subdue? killing animals? Aberrations? Outsiders? other races? That is, does your character believe that standard demihuman races have more "value" than, say, an orc, goblin, or ogre? (demihuman an old school term for the Player Character races listed in the Player's Handbook.) Once you've defined just how pacifistic your PC will be and under what circumstances, then and only then should you worry about the actual build: class, spell selection, weapon choices, domains, etc. Wow, this just gave me an awesome roleplaying idea. How fun would it be to play an absolute pacifist who defines violence as: violence done against my species. As long as they're dirty savages, slaughtering's too good for 'em!
StoneStokes 05-20-07, 01:38 AM	I agree with Sci: Go Healer, from the Miniature's Handbook. It is almost exactly what you described in your original post. The rest of the party will LOVE you!
kelvinaw273 05-20-07, 05:02 AM	I found Caramis - a very minor supporting NPC - to be a more memorable character than most of the main characters largely due to how well his ethos were defined. Caramis was Sir Lancelot in a different setting, really, and followed the chivalry ethos to the spirit and the letter ... mostly. Like Lancelot his great weakness was for Queens ...
Shaftiel 05-20-07, 05:16 PM	DrMorganes hit the nail on the head: will you kill constructs? undead? demons? wolves? oozes? There are billions of critters in D&D that really should be killed. The other things you should think about before hand are 1) If you go subdual/disarm/etc, what do you do with the people you disable? That is, if your party fights 6 orcs, kills 5, you knock one out, and the fighter coup-de-gras it that seems to defeat the purpose of knocking it out. 2) If you keep your enemies alive, what the hck do you do with them after? Escorting prisoners, or letting them go with instructions to never return, can both be either a huge problems or none at all depending on the DM. 3) Finally, what would make you fight full-on? Because at some point it's going to come down to you attacking or a potential TPK, and figuring out a little of the rationale/conditions for your committing violence beforehand will speed things up (when it happens), let you do it in character, and maybe keep the party from getting killed during the round or two where you'd otherwise be going "I don't know guys, I really don't like using my staff." Good luck with the character! It sounds like a challenge. -Shaftiel Edit: Also, there's a feat in (I think) Complete divine that lets all your healing spells heal +2 hp/spell level. Great feat and totally fits the character.